For Terril and Friends

[Rene Descartes]

Terril,

I thought I saw you using something like a "scientology" vs "Scientology" in your posts.

Funny I have an extreme dislike these days for the word "Scientology"

If the Church of Scientology were to somehow miraculously reform I would not get involved in it simply because the word "Scientology" would likely still be in the name.

The way I look at it it would take years maybe centuries before true fit and proper PR were able to bring it a light that I would glance at.

So if there are future lives I'd probably still stay away from it for maybe 1,000 years, maybe even more, maybe even forever.

I feel like I had a pizza and the reigion known as "Scientology" dumped a shit on it. I mean is there any way to save that pizza at this point.

I'm not even sure if using "scientology" would give me the idea that it were safe to get involved in. I think I'd be better off just throwing the pizza out and makign a neww one and keeping "scientology" and "Scientology" as far from the pizza as possible.

Even if they attempted to start from scratch and called it something different I can't see them getting far because sooner or later if they refer back to earlier tech and policy that had abuses atached to it things are going to crap out.

If people are bent on using the word "Scientology" I think the only way out would be to take a lesson from Prince and call themselves a symbol and refer to themselves as the "The religion formerly known as Scientology".

Take care mate and I wish you ell in your endeavors.

Rd00

 

[Oneflewover]

This one's easy.

No, you can't save a pizza where the pizza maker has shoved the shit down into all the cracks and sat on it, and then wrapped it all up in KSW plastic.

 

[Smilla]

In the eyes of the general public Scientology is nothing more than an insane brainwashing cult that nobody in their right mind would have anything to with. It's been clearly seen recently that the Windies and FZ are just as crazy as the Mother Cult, and in the case of the FZ, even crazier. All three arms of the Greater Cult of Hubbard use brainwashing, because Scientology IS brainwashing. Don't worry, the public are smart enough to stay away.

 

[Oneflewover]

In the eyes of the general public Scientology is nothing more than an insane brainwashing cult that nobody in their right mind would have anything to with. It's been clearly seen recently that the Windies and FZ are just as crazy as the Mother Cult, and in the case of the FZ, even crazier. All three arms of the Greater Cult of Hubbard use brainwashing, because Scientology IS brainwashing. Don't worry, the public are smart enough to stay away.

That hasn't been my experience. I found those I interacted with in the FZ several notches "up" from the official cult. FZ seems much more benign than the church.

Which isn't the same as recommending it to anyone. That I wouldn't do. But from what I've seen, you're much more likely to run into harm in the cult than FZ.

 

[johnAnchovie]

There exists an ancient piece of wisdom in Irish lore that is carved into a rough hunk of granite that rests just inside of the prehistoric stone walls of a fort perched on a towering cliff face on the Arran Islands where the wild Atlantic waves smash themselves, as if some kind of ritual watery sacrifice, against the rugged land.

I have tried to translate the ancient script into modern English. It seems to, once lichens and birdlime have been scraped away and the ancient syntax has been parsed, to state:

If it tastes like shit, looks like and smells like shit then….

I fear that the rest is indecipherable.

 

[DoneDeal]

That hasn't been my experience. I found those I interacted with in the FZ several notches "up" from the official cult. FZ seems much more benign than the church.

Which isn't the same as recommending it to anyone. That I wouldn't do. But from what I've seen, you're much more likely to run into harm in the cult than FZ.

ahh come on....they are the same...People running around wanting people to agree with them...lol.

Yikes! just like me. cept I'm more on purpose now...I tend to things right outside my door. The sun is along way's away...and my wax didn't turn out so good.

 

[GreyWolf]

As much as Marty, Mike, et al, try to blame all the church's ills on Miscavige, the fact is Patient 0 was Hubbard himself.

(Patient 0 is medical terminology for the original identified victim in an epidemic.)

Those who practice any type of Hubbardism, are only spreading the virus.

 

[Jquepublic]

As much as Marty, Mike, et al, try to blame all the church's ills on Miscavige, the fact is Patient 0 was Hubbard himself.

(Patient 0 is medical terminology for the original identified victim in an epidemic.)

Those who practice any type of Hubbardism, are only spreading the virus.

While I agree with you, I think it's important to acknowledge that as long as Marty, Mike, et al actually HAVE a clearcut enemy in view, they'll never see the flaws inherent in Hubbard policy.

Rather like the old saying, "can't see the forest for the trees".

 

[Smilla]

That hasn't been my experience. I found those I interacted with in the FZ several notches "up" from the official cult. FZ seems much more benign than the church.

Which isn't the same as recommending it to anyone. That I wouldn't do. But from what I've seen, you're much more likely to run into harm in the cult than FZ.

It depends on whether you think auditing Xenu directly under the orders of Elron Elray in his doll body on the M-Ship, is more insane than the Mother Cult's Tricknology or not. YMMV.

And remember, a lower dose of Arsenic may kill you just as dead as a higher one.

 

[Claire Swazey]

I think people should call their ideology whatever they feel like calling it.

I also think that there've been too many flame wars lately re Terril "and friends" to the point where the mods have had to jump in quite a few times.

 

[Oneflewover]

It depends on whether you think auditing Xenu directly under the orders of Elron Elray in his doll body on the M-Ship, is more insane than the Mother Cult's Tricknology or not. YMMV.

And remember, a lower dose of Arsenic may kill you just as dead as a higher one.

Well of course that's insane,(IMO and many others) But that's not the FZ, It's a segment of it. That's Robertson's addition to Hubbard's nonsense. The bit about Elron Elray being on a ship and still playing uber commandant.

The FZ includes that, and lot's of others that don't follow or support Robertson's extensions.

It's debatable anyway whether Roberston's additions are any less crazy than Hubbard's, so while it may be or seem insane, it's not comparable with the risk people face in the cult officiale. There is no crush regging, or gang sec checking, or (hopefully) folder culling, or OSA operations. It's a lesser potential for harm.

My objection was only to your statement of the FZ being as bad or worse than the church.

While I see no value or use in the tech, I don't believe it's my prerogative to try to dissuade others from making their own choices. So if Freezone wants to go on Freezoning, it's not a big deal to me.

They'll eventually learn. And their new recruits will learn something too. Nobody in the FZ is going to kidnap somebody and prevent their medical attention, or imprison people, or put LCD in toothpaste, or mine garbage looking for dirty.

It's not the same.

 

[Rene Descartes]

I think people should call their ideology whatever they feel like calling it.

I also think that there've been too many flame wars lately re Terril "and friends" to the point where the mods have had to jump in quite a few times.

I happen to like Terril. And I hope no flame wars start in this thread.

I just want him to take note of my ideas. I tend to be a wishy washy forgiving double dumb ass when it comes to apparent altruistic endeavors taking a detour down the dark side. But others are not so forgiving.

If the Church goes down he and others who want to continue with the altruism will be up against many things.

Not only the link of the name.

But the link of the ideals.

I wish him Godspeed.

Rd00

 

[Claire Swazey]

I happen to like Terril. And I hope no flame wars start in this thread.

I just want him to take note of my ideas. I tend to be a wishy washy forgiving double dumb ass when it comes to apparent altruistic endeavors taking a detour down the dark side. But others are not so forgiving.

If the Church goes down he and others who want to continue with the altruism will be up against many things.

Not only the link of the name.

But the link of the ideals.

I wish him Godspeed.

Rd00

I know you do. You are a very nice person and, I believe, a live and let live kind of guy.

BUT, that being said, this has already engendered yet another frothing anti FZ post and I predict more to come. It's a sticky wicket as the saying goes.

 

[Smilla]

Well of course that's insane,(IMO and many others) But that's not the FZ, It's a segment of it. That's Robertson's addition to Hubbard's nonsense. The bit about Elron Elray being on a ship and still playing uber commandant.

The FZ includes that, and lot's of others that don't follow or support Robertson's extensions.

It's debatable anyway whether Roberston's additions are any less crazy than Hubbard's, so while it may be or seem insane, it's not comparable with the risk people face in the cult officiale. There is no crush regging, or gang sec checking, or (hopefully) folder culling, or OSA operations. It's a lesser potential for harm.

My objection was only to your statement of the FZ being as bad or worse than the church.

While I see no value or use in the tech, I don't believe it's my prerogative to try to dissuade others from making their own choices. So if Freezone wants to go on Freezoning, it's not a big deal to me.

They'll eventually learn. And their new recruits will learn something too. Nobody in the FZ is going to kidnap somebody and prevent their medical attention, or imprison people, or put LCD in toothpaste, or mine garbage looking for dirty.

It's not the same.

Fair enough. My focus here is on the Scientology brainwashing techniques, rather than their dirty tricks. With regard to that, you are of course, perfectly correct.

 

[Captain Koolaid]

As much as Marty, Mike, et al, try to blame all the church's ills on Miscavige, the fact is Patient 0 was Hubbard himself.

(Patient 0 is medical terminology for the original identified victim in an epidemic.)

Those who practice any type of Hubbardism, are only spreading the virus.

Hubbard a victim? He sure fell into the trap himself eventually, but it would be more accurate to call him the source of the epidemic. Hubbard was the virus.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

... It's been clearly seen recently that the Windies and FZ are just as crazy as the Mother Cult, and in the case of the FZ, even crazier. ...

No Smilla. What has been demonstrated is that freezoners are every bit as crazy, or alternately no more crazy, as other non-freezoner exes. Moreover that conforms to what I have observed among ex-scientologists since the '80s.

The reality is people are crazy. They are most apt to act out their craziness when upset. Former members of the church of scientology, whatever their current orientation, have ample reason for being upset. So none of this is surprising in itself.

What makes for the surprise factor is that it is something of which people with a scientology background, by the nature of the scientology technology itself, should seemingly be aware. Unfortunately relatively few seem capable of 'observing the obvious' in this regard.

At that is what I find curious.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Claire Swazey]

Scn'ists don't have a corner on the crazy market. Scn'ists don't have a corner on the sanity market. Scn'ists don't have a corner on the enlightenment market.

Non Scn'ists don't have a corner on the crazy market. Non Scn'ists don't have a corner on the sanity market. Non Scn'ists don't have a corner on the enlightenment market.

Summation: Demographically speaking. people on either side o' the fence aren't better or worse or more or less sane.

 

[Smilla]

No Smilla. What has been demonstrated is that freezoners are every bit as crazy, or alternately no more crazy, as other non-freezoner exes. Moreover that conforms to what I have observed among ex-scientologists since the '80s.

The reality is people are crazy. They are most apt to act out their craziness when upset. Former members of the church of scientology, whatever their current orientation, have ample reason for being upset. So none of this is surprising in itself.

What makes for the surprise factor is that it is something of which people with a scientology background, by the nature of the scientology technology itself, should seemingly be aware. Unfortunately relatively few seem capable of 'observing the obvious' in this regard.

At that is what I find curious.


Mark A. Baker

It's amazing to me that people who got their heads messed up in the Cof$, continue to believe in the Holy Trinity of Hubbard as authority on any subject, a Technology authored by him, and KSW. That little trio stops thought and creates suggestibility - that may be why they don't 'observe the obvious' as you put it. But they are free to do as they wish - we each own our own minds.

 

[Claire Swazey]

It's amazing to me how often non Scientologists will say they know what Indie/FZ (or other) Scientologists are feeling and what the latter feel about Hubbard, when, in fact, we all have seen many posts by Scientologists stating that they have many points of disagreement with Hubbard and have no element of worship/"holy" whatever or anything like that- and also happen to be interested in other methodologies.

No wonder you're amazed! Cuz it's not even always true!

 

[Mark A. Baker]

It's amazing to me that people who got their heads messed up in the Cof$, continue to believe in the Holy Trinity of Hubbard as authority on any subject, a Technology authored by him, and KSW. That little trio stops thought and creates suggestibility - that may be why they don't 'observe the obvious' as you put it. But they are free to do as they wish - we each own our own minds.

I agree with that. But then I also find it amazing that some among those who have left the church somehow have it worked out for themselves that hubbard is to blame for all the crazy. Obviously it lets them feel better about the role they played while they were 'in'. I can only wonder about the role they see themselves playing now they are 'out'.

Still, it's clear to me hubbard has had a lot of help.


Mark A. Baker