The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But
- Thread starter lkwdblds
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lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
I don't have much to say about the Alan Walter discussion though I have read the various posts.
My only contact is that I had several of his process run on me last year. First, I developed charge debating against the "True Exes", Veda, Helluva, Toady, et al on the thread started by Sharone. Second, I got shook up after communicating with my brother, Clarence Rockaway.
Alan's processes were fully effective in handling my charge on these two areas!
Neither Alan nor LRH appeared to be too concerned about writing up their hats and doing hat turnovers before they died. With so much interest in Alan's tech existing amongst ex Scios on ESMB, one would think that he would have put more effort into insuring the legacy of his estate.
Lakey
I don't have much to say about the Alan Walter discussion though I have read the various posts.
My only contact is that I had several of his process run on me last year. First, I developed charge debating against the "True Exes", Veda, Helluva, Toady, et al on the thread started by Sharone. Second, I got shook up after communicating with my brother, Clarence Rockaway.
Alan's processes were fully effective in handling my charge on these two areas!
Neither Alan nor LRH appeared to be too concerned about writing up their hats and doing hat turnovers before they died. With so much interest in Alan's tech existing amongst ex Scios on ESMB, one would think that he would have put more effort into insuring the legacy of his estate.
Lakey
RogerB
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
Yes, well, from a distance, it might appear so.
But in actuality he was meticulous in his hat write-ups and in his attempt to power-change and pass on various hats to others.
The tragedy was that he was betrayed by those he initially trusted.
Indeed there were 3 processors trained to deliver the Codes, the 3rd one that Dart did not mention is Colin ---
All three screwed up the tech. John Mace swanned off to argue with Alan that John's version of identity handling was best and he went off to specialize in delivering such to drunks in Oz (a lot of them in Oz) to rehab them. Colin had actually married Ceil some years ago (around 2000?), but he never got his immigration scene sorted out in the US . . . I won't get into the details . . . but after fighting with Ceil eventually he took off back to England (even though he originated from S. Africa) He now is involved in a psychology practice.
I reported to Alan screwy violations of Alan's tech by all three at one time or the other.
Even Helen Geltman who was on staff turned out to be a huge disappointment to him.
Alan was in fact limited by the talent he had to work with as staff. The tragedy was that Eric W. got on his lines in the beginning and his actions resulted in false reports to Alan (vicious lies on some occasions) and the mishandling of staff who were junior to him . . . and this knocked good folks off the lines.
I personally kept clear of the area as far as going on staff as I had wished until I was financially fireproof.
So in the long run, after he really got real about Eric, and fired him with the scorching rebuke that Eric is "an evil little shit" . . . . this approximately early or mid 2005 . . . he was left with no experienced staff.
My regret now is that I did not cut to the chase and go on staff as was my intent in the beginning of 1995. Had I done so we'd have a very different scene today.
There's much more that could be written, but I will not, other than to say Alan was a brilliant researcher and one who was wise enough to, to a degree, listen to others even if it sometimes took, apparently for we who made contributions, a little time for him to chew over and finally digest offerings made to him
Any criticisms of Alan's "failings" are in actuality, unfair.
The enormity and complexity of the job he dedicated himself to do is in actuality beyond the comprehension of most.
He started from scratch (except for his experience in $cn which he had to totally repair, clean up, realign and correct as to tech errors and incompleteness . . . indeed, I am inclined to say that the main or only thing that $cn loaned to the endeavor is the notion that something can actually be done to upgrade human-kind's condition).
And the problem he had was finding or upgrading people to be fit and at a competent enough level to be able to receive the hats he had to pass on. . . . . that and finding individuals honest enough to receive and implement correctly.
It should be understood that the output and production of the man was astounding . . . he worked 18 hour days at it. The production in terms of written material and taped lectures is comparable to what you are familiar with from Hubbard. I have several hundred of his tapes secured here in NY, and a wall filled with written materials.
Alan set his priority on getting the research done, while at the same time trying to train and upgrade staff members . . . but it's bloody difficult when you have a hidden saboteur screwing up your good work.
It is the fact that I am the only individual who officially did all of the levels courses training in Kn . . . Eric W of course lived through most of the period of its release . . . though he is missing what was developed after his departure.
R
Yes, well, from a distance, it might appear so.
But in actuality he was meticulous in his hat write-ups and in his attempt to power-change and pass on various hats to others.
The tragedy was that he was betrayed by those he initially trusted.
Indeed there were 3 processors trained to deliver the Codes, the 3rd one that Dart did not mention is Colin ---
All three screwed up the tech. John Mace swanned off to argue with Alan that John's version of identity handling was best and he went off to specialize in delivering such to drunks in Oz (a lot of them in Oz) to rehab them. Colin had actually married Ceil some years ago (around 2000?), but he never got his immigration scene sorted out in the US . . . I won't get into the details . . . but after fighting with Ceil eventually he took off back to England (even though he originated from S. Africa) He now is involved in a psychology practice.
I reported to Alan screwy violations of Alan's tech by all three at one time or the other.
Even Helen Geltman who was on staff turned out to be a huge disappointment to him.
Alan was in fact limited by the talent he had to work with as staff. The tragedy was that Eric W. got on his lines in the beginning and his actions resulted in false reports to Alan (vicious lies on some occasions) and the mishandling of staff who were junior to him . . . and this knocked good folks off the lines.
I personally kept clear of the area as far as going on staff as I had wished until I was financially fireproof.
So in the long run, after he really got real about Eric, and fired him with the scorching rebuke that Eric is "an evil little shit" . . . . this approximately early or mid 2005 . . . he was left with no experienced staff.
My regret now is that I did not cut to the chase and go on staff as was my intent in the beginning of 1995. Had I done so we'd have a very different scene today.
There's much more that could be written, but I will not, other than to say Alan was a brilliant researcher and one who was wise enough to, to a degree, listen to others even if it sometimes took, apparently for we who made contributions, a little time for him to chew over and finally digest offerings made to him
Any criticisms of Alan's "failings" are in actuality, unfair.
The enormity and complexity of the job he dedicated himself to do is in actuality beyond the comprehension of most.
He started from scratch (except for his experience in $cn which he had to totally repair, clean up, realign and correct as to tech errors and incompleteness . . . indeed, I am inclined to say that the main or only thing that $cn loaned to the endeavor is the notion that something can actually be done to upgrade human-kind's condition).
And the problem he had was finding or upgrading people to be fit and at a competent enough level to be able to receive the hats he had to pass on. . . . . that and finding individuals honest enough to receive and implement correctly.
It should be understood that the output and production of the man was astounding . . . he worked 18 hour days at it. The production in terms of written material and taped lectures is comparable to what you are familiar with from Hubbard. I have several hundred of his tapes secured here in NY, and a wall filled with written materials.
Alan set his priority on getting the research done, while at the same time trying to train and upgrade staff members . . . but it's bloody difficult when you have a hidden saboteur screwing up your good work.
It is the fact that I am the only individual who officially did all of the levels courses training in Kn . . . Eric W of course lived through most of the period of its release . . . though he is missing what was developed after his departure.
R
lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
Wow! Thanks for all this data Roger. When one hears little snippets of Knowledgism being discussed between insiders and some who claim to be insiders and are not, the subject doesn't make much sense. You have done many of us a valuable service by posting many details of this story in one place.
The quote you made above is quite amusing and I quote here in blue: I am inclined to say that the main or only thing that $cn loaned to the endeavor is the notion that something can actually be done to upgrade human-kind's condition). Many of us have heard the LRH tape where he says exactly the same thing when discussing Freud! What goes around comes around and I find that amusing in a bizarre sort of way.
My initial reaction to what you were saying was to think, "Well if Alan's tech is so powerful, why didn't he just process a group of people so that they would be worthy of preserving and carrying forth his work."
However, as I read further, with you mentioning all the failings which followers can have which thwart the works of a creative man, you convinced me as to how big a job Alan was taking on. Hubbard had a quote on this as well, saying that he was saving a planet by mobilizing a group of broken players or broken straws. I can't remember the exact quote but it alluded to the fact that the average human is a flawed being
The part where you mention that you were strongly considering going on Alan's staff is quite interesting. I am sure that had you done so, Alan's legacy would have been preserved in a proper manner but on the other hand, the work you did pursue would have suffered greatly by your involvement with Knowlegism.
One thing I have learned on ESMB is that sometimes when one makes what they think is a trivial post, such as my posting of the Cowboy song or my little snippet which you responded to, a seemingly trivial post can lead to great responses such as those that Face delivered and as well as your above response about Alan.
There might be a lesson here for posters. The lesson would be to always go ahead send a post if you are having second thoughts about it and are going to delete it instead. This could also apply to a paragraph or section within a post. Go ahead and send the post because the response which comes back just might be a blockbuster which vastly increases your knowledge.
Lakey
Yes, well, from a distance, it might appear so.
But in actuality he was meticulous in his hat write-ups and in his attempt to power-change and pass on various hats to others.
The tragedy was that he was betrayed by those he initially trusted.
Indeed there were 3 processors trained to deliver the Codes, the 3rd one that Dart did not mention is Colin ---
All three screwed up the tech. John Mace swanned off to argue with Alan that John's version of identity handling was best and he went off to specialize in delivering such to drunks in Oz (a lot of them in Oz) to rehab them. Colin had actually married Ceil some years ago (around 2000?), but he never got his immigration scene sorted out in the US . . . I won't get into the details . . . but after fighting with Ceil eventually he took off back to England (even though he originated from S. Africa) He now is involved in a psychology practice.
I reported to Alan screwy violations of Alan's tech by all three at one time or the other.
Even Helen Geltman who was on staff turned out to be a huge disappointment to him.
Alan was in fact limited by the talent he had to work with as staff. The tragedy was that Eric W. got on his lines in the beginning and his actions resulted in false reports to Alan (vicious lies on some occasions) and the mishandling of staff who were junior to him . . . and this knocked good folks off the lines.
I personally kept clear of the area as far as going on staff as I had wished until I was financially fireproof.
So in the long run, after he really got real about Eric, and fired him with the scorching rebuke that Eric is "an evil little shit" . . . . this approximately early or mid 2005 . . . he was left with no experienced staff.
My regret now is that I did not cut to the chase and go on staff as was my intent in the beginning of 1995. Had I done so we'd have a very different scene today.
There's much more that could be written, but I will not, other than to say Alan was a brilliant researcher and one who was wise enough to, to a degree, listen to others even if it sometimes took, apparently for we who made contributions, a little time for him to chew over and finally digest offerings made to him
Any criticisms of Alan's "failings" are in actuality, unfair.
The enormity and complexity of the job he dedicated himself to do is in actuality beyond the comprehension of most.
He started from scratch (except for his experience in $cn which he had to totally repair, clean up, realign and correct as to tech errors and incompleteness . . . indeed, I am inclined to say that the main or only thing that $cn loaned to the endeavor is the notion that something can actually be done to upgrade human-kind's condition).
And the problem he had was finding or upgrading people to be fit and at a competent enough level to be able to receive the hats he had to pass on. . . . . that and finding individuals honest enough to receive and implement correctly.
It should be understood that the output and production of the man was astounding . . . he worked 18 hour days at it. The production in terms of written material and taped lectures is comparable to what you are familiar with from Hubbard. I have several hundred of his tapes secured here in NY, and a wall filled with written materials.
Alan set his priority on getting the research done, while at the same time trying to train and upgrade staff members . . . but it's bloody difficult when you have a hidden saboteur screwing up your good work.
It is the fact that I am the only individual who officially did all of the levels courses training in Kn . . . Eric W of course lived through most of the period of its release . . . though he is missing what was developed after his departure.
R
Wow! Thanks for all this data Roger. When one hears little snippets of Knowledgism being discussed between insiders and some who claim to be insiders and are not, the subject doesn't make much sense. You have done many of us a valuable service by posting many details of this story in one place.
The quote you made above is quite amusing and I quote here in blue: I am inclined to say that the main or only thing that $cn loaned to the endeavor is the notion that something can actually be done to upgrade human-kind's condition). Many of us have heard the LRH tape where he says exactly the same thing when discussing Freud! What goes around comes around and I find that amusing in a bizarre sort of way.
My initial reaction to what you were saying was to think, "Well if Alan's tech is so powerful, why didn't he just process a group of people so that they would be worthy of preserving and carrying forth his work."
However, as I read further, with you mentioning all the failings which followers can have which thwart the works of a creative man, you convinced me as to how big a job Alan was taking on. Hubbard had a quote on this as well, saying that he was saving a planet by mobilizing a group of broken players or broken straws. I can't remember the exact quote but it alluded to the fact that the average human is a flawed being
The part where you mention that you were strongly considering going on Alan's staff is quite interesting. I am sure that had you done so, Alan's legacy would have been preserved in a proper manner but on the other hand, the work you did pursue would have suffered greatly by your involvement with Knowlegism.
One thing I have learned on ESMB is that sometimes when one makes what they think is a trivial post, such as my posting of the Cowboy song or my little snippet which you responded to, a seemingly trivial post can lead to great responses such as those that Face delivered and as well as your above response about Alan.
There might be a lesson here for posters. The lesson would be to always go ahead send a post if you are having second thoughts about it and are going to delete it instead. This could also apply to a paragraph or section within a post. Go ahead and send the post because the response which comes back just might be a blockbuster which vastly increases your knowledge.
Lakey
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
Or ...someone could use your 'seemingly trivial post' and while appearing to reply tell the world and his dog how great he is, and even fit in a little bit of tek promotion at the same time.
Its all about the chosen viewpoint really, isn't it?
Or ...someone could use your 'seemingly trivial post' and while appearing to reply tell the world and his dog how great he is, and even fit in a little bit of tek promotion at the same time.
Its all about the chosen viewpoint really, isn't it?
lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
I'd say that what you wrote is correct in that there is a possibility that someone may use a reply as a possible vehicle for doing some self promotion and even promoting some tek at the same time. What's wrong with that? That's what message boards are all about, the conveying of information!
Once a reader obtains the info, it is up to the reader to decide if it is valid or not. Promoting oneself or the tech one believes in and has helped to develop is not always bad. It is only bad if the tech is harmful or the self promotion is unearned. It is up to the reader to read the post and come to his or her own conclusions.
I sincerely believe that is the proper way to look at a message board. The reader must carefully read another person's posts and decide for themselves as to their truthfulness and value. Sure, the reader has the right to reject what is offered and/or paint it in a bad light. When this is done, I believe that the one doing the rejecting should give some specific examples of where they think the post has gone wrong.
If the one rejecting the post does not do that, then their rejection tends to be of the "knee jerk" or stimulus response variety and usually (though not always) posts of that ilk are ones that have little validity and only appeal to others with the same "knee jerk" mechanism active in their minds.
For example, most people on this thread know that you detest Hubbard and believe that all of his tek is crap. However, we do not know, or at least I don't, what you believe about Alan Walter's tech. Alan found fault with much of LRH's work and went in a different direction for a lot of his tech. I am not assuming automatically that you also believe that all of Alan's tech is crap; I would really like to get your assessment of his tech.
This isn't just limited to an Ex Scientology message board but applies to all info which one receives. Perhaps you dismiss all mental and spiritual tech as crap or perhaps there are some techs which you feel are valid. I would be very interested to know which mental and/or spiritual techs, if any, you believe have some validity.
Its okay to negate what you don't like and you have the right to do so but how about letting us know what you do like as well?
Lakey
Or ...someone could use your 'seemingly trivial post' and while appearing to reply tell the world and his dog how great he is, and even fit in a little bit of tek promotion at the same time.
Its all about the chosen viewpoint really, isn't it?
I'd say that what you wrote is correct in that there is a possibility that someone may use a reply as a possible vehicle for doing some self promotion and even promoting some tek at the same time. What's wrong with that? That's what message boards are all about, the conveying of information!
Once a reader obtains the info, it is up to the reader to decide if it is valid or not. Promoting oneself or the tech one believes in and has helped to develop is not always bad. It is only bad if the tech is harmful or the self promotion is unearned. It is up to the reader to read the post and come to his or her own conclusions.
I sincerely believe that is the proper way to look at a message board. The reader must carefully read another person's posts and decide for themselves as to their truthfulness and value. Sure, the reader has the right to reject what is offered and/or paint it in a bad light. When this is done, I believe that the one doing the rejecting should give some specific examples of where they think the post has gone wrong.
If the one rejecting the post does not do that, then their rejection tends to be of the "knee jerk" or stimulus response variety and usually (though not always) posts of that ilk are ones that have little validity and only appeal to others with the same "knee jerk" mechanism active in their minds.
For example, most people on this thread know that you detest Hubbard and believe that all of his tek is crap. However, we do not know, or at least I don't, what you believe about Alan Walter's tech. Alan found fault with much of LRH's work and went in a different direction for a lot of his tech. I am not assuming automatically that you also believe that all of Alan's tech is crap; I would really like to get your assessment of his tech.
This isn't just limited to an Ex Scientology message board but applies to all info which one receives. Perhaps you dismiss all mental and spiritual tech as crap or perhaps there are some techs which you feel are valid. I would be very interested to know which mental and/or spiritual techs, if any, you believe have some validity.
Its okay to negate what you don't like and you have the right to do so but how about letting us know what you do like as well?
Lakey
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
one of the problems with some people
Our neighbors across the street have a daughter with Lyme Disease. She was undiagnosed for years. A couple of years ago, she was diagnosed with Lyme.
Her mom has taken her to Germany for treatment, to India for stem cell therapy twice.
Monica is 16, and a really nice person. She is now blind and crippled. Not that many years ago, she was a tom boy.
Nothing about this is funny.
Unfortunately, in desperation, with a Lyme network, and no way to really get out of her box, Monica's mom is spending money on odd solutions (by odd I mean rip offs).
The latest is having the house tested for mold.
We do property management. We use a local a company that tests for mold. Mold is airborne. The company tests ambient air, inside and outside the house. If the levels of mold are elevated inside the house over the outside levels, they say that there is a problem.
Monica's mom, through her network, has found a testing laboratory in New Jersey. They send you a non scented Swifter pad, and you wipe suspicious areas with each pad. You send them the pads Fed Ex in a plastic baggie. They test each pad for $285. per pad, and tell you about the mold found. So far Monica's mom has spent about $1K on this testing company. She is looking to move to a one story house because of Monica's wheelchair.
I just wonder how many niche diseases have special niche rip off companies. Desperation and money are like magnets to rip off artists.
I think what Ms. Trouble is looking at are the desperate souls leaving the Co$, who will grasp at straws, rather than do thorough research, re-evaluate their previous mis-steps, and pull their selves out of the mindfuck BEFORE embarking on any new similar activity.
Desperation causes some to lose common sense.
Lakey, if you had a mother, a father, a son, a daughter, a wife in the Sea Org or just really "in" the mire of the Co$, how would you feel about their arriving here or on Marty's blog and being jumped on to get repaired?
Those people are vulnerable. They have bought into a lot of baloney over the years. It takes time to see it for what it is.
I don't mean for this to be a fun post, but I do have my share of "Dark Side" humor.
Everyone knows that it is I, alone, that has the "one true tech." PM me with your Master Card details. I can help you, where others have failed.
Our neighbors across the street have a daughter with Lyme Disease. She was undiagnosed for years. A couple of years ago, she was diagnosed with Lyme.
Her mom has taken her to Germany for treatment, to India for stem cell therapy twice.
Monica is 16, and a really nice person. She is now blind and crippled. Not that many years ago, she was a tom boy.
Nothing about this is funny.
Unfortunately, in desperation, with a Lyme network, and no way to really get out of her box, Monica's mom is spending money on odd solutions (by odd I mean rip offs).
The latest is having the house tested for mold.
We do property management. We use a local a company that tests for mold. Mold is airborne. The company tests ambient air, inside and outside the house. If the levels of mold are elevated inside the house over the outside levels, they say that there is a problem.
Monica's mom, through her network, has found a testing laboratory in New Jersey. They send you a non scented Swifter pad, and you wipe suspicious areas with each pad. You send them the pads Fed Ex in a plastic baggie. They test each pad for $285. per pad, and tell you about the mold found. So far Monica's mom has spent about $1K on this testing company. She is looking to move to a one story house because of Monica's wheelchair.
I just wonder how many niche diseases have special niche rip off companies. Desperation and money are like magnets to rip off artists.
I think what Ms. Trouble is looking at are the desperate souls leaving the Co$, who will grasp at straws, rather than do thorough research, re-evaluate their previous mis-steps, and pull their selves out of the mindfuck BEFORE embarking on any new similar activity.
Desperation causes some to lose common sense.
Lakey, if you had a mother, a father, a son, a daughter, a wife in the Sea Org or just really "in" the mire of the Co$, how would you feel about their arriving here or on Marty's blog and being jumped on to get repaired?
Those people are vulnerable. They have bought into a lot of baloney over the years. It takes time to see it for what it is.
I don't mean for this to be a fun post, but I do have my share of "Dark Side" humor.
Everyone knows that it is I, alone, that has the "one true tech." PM me with your Master Card details. I can help you, where others have failed.
lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: one of the problems with some people
I feel badly for the girl you mention in your post, Carmelo, but other than that, I really don't get the point you are trying to make.
If a close relative of mine was still in the Sea Org or C of S and arrived here, I would be happy about it and hope they could find some info here which might help them sort out things for themselves. IMO, all the info is here to help a C of S member sort out the situation if they read it objectively with an "open mind".
The first prerequiste of learning is to know that you don't know. People who come here "shell shocked" may be very suspect about trying variations of something which has already proved harmful to them. I understand that point. IMO, just to remain "shell shocked" and condemn everything automatically isn't the answer.
I admit that it is a better choice than forking out new money and trying another variation of what hurt you before without doing any further investigation.
Maybe, that is all some people are capable of doing. They got burned very badly by something earlier and now, in response, they reject everything having to do with it without fully inspecting it. I see a scale of possible reactions as follows:
THE "I WAS SEVERELY BURNED BY BAD TECH SCALE"
1. Reject without inspection everything connected with that tech and demand others do so as well.
2. Reject without inspection everything connected with that tech but don't interfere (except for giving them a warning) if others use it and say it works for them.
3. Reject everything about that tech after investigating it and state the reasons why you reject it.
4. Cautiously try some new but related tech on a cost free or intro level and see if it does you any good.
5. React accordingly - reject it or accept it depending on how it works for you.
I find #1 unacceptable. People using #2 I can respect and work with. People using #3, #4 and #5 I can work with and admire.
Lakey
I feel badly for the girl you mention in your post, Carmelo, but other than that, I really don't get the point you are trying to make.
If a close relative of mine was still in the Sea Org or C of S and arrived here, I would be happy about it and hope they could find some info here which might help them sort out things for themselves. IMO, all the info is here to help a C of S member sort out the situation if they read it objectively with an "open mind".
The first prerequiste of learning is to know that you don't know. People who come here "shell shocked" may be very suspect about trying variations of something which has already proved harmful to them. I understand that point. IMO, just to remain "shell shocked" and condemn everything automatically isn't the answer.
I admit that it is a better choice than forking out new money and trying another variation of what hurt you before without doing any further investigation.
Maybe, that is all some people are capable of doing. They got burned very badly by something earlier and now, in response, they reject everything having to do with it without fully inspecting it. I see a scale of possible reactions as follows:
THE "I WAS SEVERELY BURNED BY BAD TECH SCALE"
1. Reject without inspection everything connected with that tech and demand others do so as well.
2. Reject without inspection everything connected with that tech but don't interfere (except for giving them a warning) if others use it and say it works for them.
3. Reject everything about that tech after investigating it and state the reasons why you reject it.
4. Cautiously try some new but related tech on a cost free or intro level and see if it does you any good.
5. React accordingly - reject it or accept it depending on how it works for you.
I find #1 unacceptable. People using #2 I can respect and work with. People using #3, #4 and #5 I can work with and admire.
Lakey
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
Emphasis mine.
Emphasis mine.
Your reply is very sweet and after all my excessive ranting on the subject and knowing how you feel about the issue, I'm surprised that you bothered.
You would probably be equally surprised if you knew how I really feel with regards to spiritual matters but the truth is that it's my business and mine alone and I feel no need to gain approval or even to be polite by sharing my thoughts ... and I hope I never do.
I will say that at this stage, I gratefully receive all I need from nature, from quiet calm breathing, music and from the love of those that manage to love me despite my not fitting a mould that may be easier to tolerate.
We are all here (ESMB) for our own reasons Lakey, and not being a complete dullard, I do understand that ... but the FAQ's state very clearly that preaching ones own brand here is not cool and to me re-branding pedophilia as kiddy fiddling is even more uncool, especially if you plan on promoting it on a board where the (mainly) abused will almost certainly read it and in a manner that is achingly similar to that of a previous wannabe messiah called hubbard, that we all were once sucked in by.
I realise that is an extreme example, but it is not that far from the reality IMHO.
Oh, and I don't 'detest hubbard and believe all his tek is crap' ... I do believe it's a controlling road to cultic thinking and that it is not spiritual in any way and ultimately wrecks lives and family's.
Carmello is right on the money with his assessment (I'll ring you shortly C, to give you my Mastercard details).
You would probably be equally surprised if you knew how I really feel with regards to spiritual matters but the truth is that it's my business and mine alone and I feel no need to gain approval or even to be polite by sharing my thoughts ... and I hope I never do.
I will say that at this stage, I gratefully receive all I need from nature, from quiet calm breathing, music and from the love of those that manage to love me despite my not fitting a mould that may be easier to tolerate.
We are all here (ESMB) for our own reasons Lakey, and not being a complete dullard, I do understand that ... but the FAQ's state very clearly that preaching ones own brand here is not cool and to me re-branding pedophilia as kiddy fiddling is even more uncool, especially if you plan on promoting it on a board where the (mainly) abused will almost certainly read it and in a manner that is achingly similar to that of a previous wannabe messiah called hubbard, that we all were once sucked in by.
I realise that is an extreme example, but it is not that far from the reality IMHO.
Oh, and I don't 'detest hubbard and believe all his tek is crap' ... I do believe it's a controlling road to cultic thinking and that it is not spiritual in any way and ultimately wrecks lives and family's.
Carmello is right on the money with his assessment (I'll ring you shortly C, to give you my Mastercard details).
lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
Good post Trouble! I have no problem with anything which you said above and like the fact that you opened up a bit. Thanks for explaining more about your particular situation.
I am glad that you read this thread and post here. Your opinion is interesting and reflects the outlook of a large group of people of ESMB. I, for one, respect your opinions and want you to keep posting here.
Lakey
Emphasis mine.
Your reply is very sweet and after all my excessive ranting on the subject and knowing how you feel about the issue, I'm surprised that you bothered.
You would probably be equally surprised if you knew how I really feel with regards to spiritual matters but the truth is that it's my business and mine alone and I feel no need to gain approval or even to be polite by sharing my thoughts ... and I hope I never do.
I will say that at this stage, I gratefully receive all I need from nature, from quiet calm breathing, music and from the love of those that manage to love me despite my not fitting a mould that may be easier to tolerate.
We are all here (ESMB) for our own reasons Lakey, and not being a complete dullard, I do understand that ... but the FAQ's state very clearly that preaching ones own brand here is not cool and to me re-branding pedophilia as kiddy fiddling is even more uncool, especially if you plan on promoting it on a board where the (mainly) abused will almost certainly read it and in a manner that is achingly similar to that of a previous wannabe messiah called hubbard, that we all were once sucked in by.
I realise that is an extreme example, but it is not that far from the reality IMHO.
Oh, and I don't 'detest hubbard and believe all his tek is crap' ... I do believe it's a controlling road to cultic thinking and that it is not spiritual in any way and ultimately wrecks lives and family's.
Carmello is right on the money with his assessment (I'll ring you shortly C, to give you my Mastercard details).
Good post Trouble! I have no problem with anything which you said above and like the fact that you opened up a bit. Thanks for explaining more about your particular situation.
I am glad that you read this thread and post here. Your opinion is interesting and reflects the outlook of a large group of people of ESMB. I, for one, respect your opinions and want you to keep posting here.
Lakey
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
For Trouble
[video=youtube;ND-SB3OxP38]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND-SB3OxP38&ob=av2n[/video]
[video=youtube;ND-SB3OxP38]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND-SB3OxP38&ob=av2n[/video]
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: The Grammy Awards
That rendition of "Let it Be" is about as good as music can get. What a performance, what a song!!!
I also love "Imagine". I don't fully agree with the lyrics but John Lennon puts his entire beingness into singing that song and the overall effect is very powerful. He is a very powerful being and by sheer force of his artistry and knowing that he believed in what he was singing, the listener is carried upward on a wave into agreement with the world which he projects.
Lakey
That rendition of "Let it Be" is about as good as music can get. What a performance, what a song!!!
I also love "Imagine". I don't fully agree with the lyrics but John Lennon puts his entire beingness into singing that song and the overall effect is very powerful. He is a very powerful being and by sheer force of his artistry and knowing that he believed in what he was singing, the listener is carried upward on a wave into agreement with the world which he projects.
Lakey
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
music (you know who you are)
[video=youtube;JGnNQM_9q-w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGnNQM_9q-w&feature=related[/video]
[video=youtube;JGnNQM_9q-w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGnNQM_9q-w&feature=related[/video]
Hatshepsut
Crusader
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
Re: music (you know who you are)
here I sit, sipping my morning coffee. I have this little high tech press, and I use high quality beans, fresh ground, to make one cup at a time. I have a Keurig too, in a pinch.
If you look closely, you can see my dog in the photo. He's wearing the yellow goggles.
I'm sitting here, basking in timeless, barrier free connection with others.
Once again, I've had it demonstrated to me that we are not separate, that, in fact, the physical universe is an illusion of separation.
I don't mean that we are not individual, just that we are not islands.
Behind the screen of the physical universe are the manipulators of reality. It is us. Using our visions, we direct connections (or not).
How is it that I have a great dog, and he has a great family? I'd say that we connected in the spiritual universe prior to the physical connection. It was a "like attracts like" connection. Unlike most dogs, who stay home and sleep, he goes everywhere I go, sniffs butts, pees on bushes all over creation, plays with other dogs in surf, sand, and snow. He leads an active social life. On my side, people stop me every day, and tell me what a great dog I have.
In 1967, while working as a roadie at a be-in, in a crowded hallway, rushing / pushing through people to check sound levels, my eyes met those of a girl. We just looked at one another, face to face, without talking for literally minutes. We didn't become friends. We were (are) friends. There wasn't a beginning, nor is there an end. Over the weeks, months, and years after that, we would sit in her living room, on lawns, at rock concerts and just look at one another, without saying a word, for hours. We would get so huge and energized.
A couple years later, we found Scientology, and TR 0. TR 0 was empty and pallid compared to what we did / do.
If I'm on a monorail at Disney World, she can phone from California, and we'll talk for an hour. If we're on the beach together (any time in the last 40 years), we may talk, or just sit and be with one another. We're both beach and surf children.
We've never even made out. We're just simpatico. She is my friend, and has always been, and will always be.
There are people (and dogs), who you "meet," and just know in an instant that they are your friend. All of the physical universe separators are thrown out the door. Age, culture, distance, it doesn't matter.
You know when you see / feel it, experience it.
It is undeniable.
Me, with some of my other friends, now and forever:
I recommend finding your people and animals, and living happily ever after. They are out there.
What a glorious feeling it is to have friends.
[video=youtube;qhEHjlsRQH4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhEHjlsRQH4[/video]
here I sit, sipping my morning coffee. I have this little high tech press, and I use high quality beans, fresh ground, to make one cup at a time. I have a Keurig too, in a pinch.
Or ...someone could use your 'seemingly trivial post' and while appearing to reply tell the world and his dog how great he is, and even fit in a little bit of tek promotion at the same time.
Its all about the chosen viewpoint really, isn't it?
If you look closely, you can see my dog in the photo. He's wearing the yellow goggles.
I'm sitting here, basking in timeless, barrier free connection with others.
Once again, I've had it demonstrated to me that we are not separate, that, in fact, the physical universe is an illusion of separation.
I don't mean that we are not individual, just that we are not islands.
Behind the screen of the physical universe are the manipulators of reality. It is us. Using our visions, we direct connections (or not).
How is it that I have a great dog, and he has a great family? I'd say that we connected in the spiritual universe prior to the physical connection. It was a "like attracts like" connection. Unlike most dogs, who stay home and sleep, he goes everywhere I go, sniffs butts, pees on bushes all over creation, plays with other dogs in surf, sand, and snow. He leads an active social life. On my side, people stop me every day, and tell me what a great dog I have.
In 1967, while working as a roadie at a be-in, in a crowded hallway, rushing / pushing through people to check sound levels, my eyes met those of a girl. We just looked at one another, face to face, without talking for literally minutes. We didn't become friends. We were (are) friends. There wasn't a beginning, nor is there an end. Over the weeks, months, and years after that, we would sit in her living room, on lawns, at rock concerts and just look at one another, without saying a word, for hours. We would get so huge and energized.
A couple years later, we found Scientology, and TR 0. TR 0 was empty and pallid compared to what we did / do.
If I'm on a monorail at Disney World, she can phone from California, and we'll talk for an hour. If we're on the beach together (any time in the last 40 years), we may talk, or just sit and be with one another. We're both beach and surf children.
We've never even made out. We're just simpatico. She is my friend, and has always been, and will always be.
There are people (and dogs), who you "meet," and just know in an instant that they are your friend. All of the physical universe separators are thrown out the door. Age, culture, distance, it doesn't matter.
You know when you see / feel it, experience it.
It is undeniable.
Me, with some of my other friends, now and forever:
I recommend finding your people and animals, and living happily ever after. They are out there.
What a glorious feeling it is to have friends.
[video=youtube;qhEHjlsRQH4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhEHjlsRQH4[/video]
Last edited:
lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: music (you know who you are)
Beautiful post, beautiful "stuff" to share with us!!
I was also fortunate enough to encounter the beautiful girl who Carmelo mentions. Unfortunately for me, it was not a lifetime encounter but for 6 months of my life she was an integral part of it. We worked together and I came to know her and admire her. This occurred decades ago.
At the time, I was a nice guy, an honest guy and a hard and dedicated worker but I was just one of the guys, not really all that aware spiritually. In thinking about her and her and Carmelo's relationship and how timeless it is, I see that I have made gains as a being over those intervening decades. Knowing her way back when and knowing Carmelo in the present have both played a major part in increasing my ability to look and to reach out to others.
Lakey
here I sit, sipping my morning coffee. I have this little high tech press, and I use high quality beans, fresh ground, to make one cup at a time. I have a Keurig too, in a pinch.
If you look closely, you can see my dog in the photo. He's wearing the yellow goggles.
I'm sitting here, basking in timeless, barrier free connection with others.
Once again, I've had it demonstrated to me that we are not separate, that, in fact, the physical universe is an illusion of separation.
I don't mean that we are not individual, just that we are not islands.
Behind the screen of the physical universe are the manipulators of reality. It is us. Using our visions, we direct connections (or not).
How is it that I have a great dog, and he has a great family? I'd say that we connected in the spiritual universe prior to the physical connection. It was a "like attracts like" connection. Unlike most dogs, who stay home and sleep, he goes everywhere I go, sniffs butts, pees on bushes all over creation, plays with other dogs in surf, sand, and snow. He leads an active social life. On my side, people stop me every day, and tell me what a great dog I have.
In 1967, while working as a roadie at a be-in, in a crowded hallway, rushing / pushing through people to check sound levels, my eyes met those of a girl. We just looked at one another, face to face, without talking for literally minutes. We didn't become friends. We were (are) friends. There wasn't a beginning, nor is there an end. Over the weeks, months, and years after that, we would sit in her living room, on lawns, at rock concerts and just look at one another, without saying a word, for hours. We would get so huge and energized.
A couple years later, we found Scientology, and TR 0. TR 0 was empty and pallid compared to what we did / do.
If I'm on a monorail at Disney World, she can phone from California, and we'll talk for an hour. If we're on the beach together (any time in the last 40 years), we may talk, or just sit and be with one another. We're both beach and surf children.
We've never even made out. We're just simpatico. She is my friend, and has always been, and will always be.
There are people (and dogs), who you "meet," and just know in an instant that they are your friend. All of the physical universe separators are thrown out the door. Age, culture, distance, it doesn't matter. You know when you see / feel it.
It is undeniable.
Me, with some of my other friends, now and forever:
Beautiful post, beautiful "stuff" to share with us!!
I was also fortunate enough to encounter the beautiful girl who Carmelo mentions. Unfortunately for me, it was not a lifetime encounter but for 6 months of my life she was an integral part of it. We worked together and I came to know her and admire her. This occurred decades ago.
At the time, I was a nice guy, an honest guy and a hard and dedicated worker but I was just one of the guys, not really all that aware spiritually. In thinking about her and her and Carmelo's relationship and how timeless it is, I see that I have made gains as a being over those intervening decades. Knowing her way back when and knowing Carmelo in the present have both played a major part in increasing my ability to look and to reach out to others.
Lakey
Ted
Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: music (you know who you are)
I do all that dog stuff, too, except for sniffing butts.
And...
You are a great friend!
I do all that dog stuff, too, except for sniffing butts.
And...
You are a great friend!
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
I believe that when most of us became scientologists we 'handed our hearts in at the door' and in exchange were given a few charts and somebody else's goal.
When I left the cofs and collected my heart it was a bit battered around the edges, pieces were missing completely and it hurt quite a lot when I tried to put it back in place.
What I've learned recently after struggling with it for quite a while is so simple that it's almost shocking ... some people think, some feel and the enlightened do both dependent upon the situation.
There was nothing spiritual about the charts, tone scales and various accoutrements that I was sold in scientology ... they may have their use but IMO if useful at all, it would just be in a sales environment.
Last night I slept knowing that someone out there with nothing to sell and nothing to gain 'got it' ... and there was not a lecture or a chart in sight.
Carmelo ... give that gorgeous loved dog a huge kiss from me and please, accept a little one yourself.
I believe that when most of us became scientologists we 'handed our hearts in at the door' and in exchange were given a few charts and somebody else's goal.
When I left the cofs and collected my heart it was a bit battered around the edges, pieces were missing completely and it hurt quite a lot when I tried to put it back in place.
What I've learned recently after struggling with it for quite a while is so simple that it's almost shocking ... some people think, some feel and the enlightened do both dependent upon the situation.
There was nothing spiritual about the charts, tone scales and various accoutrements that I was sold in scientology ... they may have their use but IMO if useful at all, it would just be in a sales environment.
Last night I slept knowing that someone out there with nothing to sell and nothing to gain 'got it' ... and there was not a lecture or a chart in sight.
Carmelo ... give that gorgeous loved dog a huge kiss from me and please, accept a little one yourself.
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
Correct. They are simply tools; neither 'good' or 'bad' in themselves.
They are tools which can be used to help others expand their personal insight & awareness. They can also be used for other purposes, such as those for which the Co$ commonly uses them. The choice of how the tools are to be used is up to the individual who intends to use them.
Mark A. Baker
Correct. They are simply tools; neither 'good' or 'bad' in themselves.
They are tools which can be used to help others expand their personal insight & awareness. They can also be used for other purposes, such as those for which the Co$ commonly uses them. The choice of how the tools are to be used is up to the individual who intends to use them.
Mark A. Baker
- Status