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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: author unknown

This looks very much like a John MacMaster piece.


For sure, I didn't write it.

Not that the item is no good or wrong. I just know that I didn't write it.


He too was big into LOVE as being the most important aspect/thing/action of existence. And I well remember his speaking of the issues of co-existence and co-create and the upsets at the loss and departure from them. We had private chats on these issues.

Love is an important item for many folks: for some it is THE most important . . . . but not so for all folks. Others have as their most important "thing" in the game of life as being other items such as knowledge, truth, creation, relationships/alignment, etc., etc.,

Hence, the error in the above piece is that it tells everyone what is true for them . . . and that is always a wrong move . . . Hubbard made that egregious error.

It is wiser to present one's personal discoveries and "importances" as relative. This way others can relate to the datum and fit such correctly in relative terms in accordance to their order of importances.

It is for this reason that when I write what I have to say on "tech" issues, I preface them with "in my observation" . . . for I well know others likely observe differently! :melodramatic:

Rog

Carmelo: I wanted to say that the picture of your granddaughter looks like the little impish you on the farm that you have posted a number of times. She is blessed.

You wrote:
Any processing directed at removing valences should be complimented with ARC processes in the direction of rehabilitating the being’s ability to experience love.

Possible techniques: F0, “What could you love about yourself”,
F3 “What could another or others love about another or others?”
F2 “What could another love about you?”
F1 “What could you love about another?”
(In this “reverse order”).
It could be run using specific terminals in one’s environment, e.g., “What could you love about yourself in the presence of ______?”
“What could ______ love about another”, “What could another love about _____?”
“What could you love about ____?”
“What could ____ love about you?”​


I might even start on what was...

"What have you loved about yourself (another, others)?" etc.

"Could" suggests ability.

"Might" suggests possibility thinking. I prefer "might."

I would suggest an assessment list. Add to the items that Roger listed.

knowledge, truth, creation, relationships/alignment, harmony, understanding, God, ... Conjugate to fit the sentence structure. If metered, run reading items if pc/client is interested. If unmetered, check for interest or physical reaction or mental reaction no matter how subtle.

Above and beyond that, there would be no substitute for understanding processing basics, your client, and being able to roll a process specifically for him/her as was done in the days of scientology-yore.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Ant,
Thanks for that Pilot's piece "Knowingness and Creation" . . .

Y'r welcome

One of the things I have observed over the years which aligns with The Pilot's thing of blowing all the mechanics of using the mind to look for "definitions and meanings" of words is this: my observation is that words, whether written or spoken, are actually representation symbols for concepts. That is, words are symbols that represent concepts . . . and of course, above concepts one has the creative act that brought such into being.
Rog

Yes. Words are Symbols - lower on the Know to Mystery than concepts. Why can't people see this :)

All the best,

Ant
 
Re: author unknown

This looks very much like a John MacMaster piece.

He too was big into LOVE as being the most important aspect/thing/action of existence. And I well remember his speaking of the issues of co-existence and co-create and the upsets at the loss and departure from them. We had private chats on these issues.

...

Hence, the error in the above piece is that it tells everyone what is true for them . . . and that is always a wrong move . . . Hubbard made that egregious error.

It is wiser to present one's personal discoveries and "importances" as relative. This way others can relate to the datum and fit such correctly in relative terms in accordance to their order of importances.

It is for this reason that when I write what I have to say on "tech" issues, I preface them with "in my observation" . . . for I well know others likely observe differently! :melodramatic:

Rog

Agreed.

I knew a fellow once who stated rather loudly that "Scientology did not handle feelings". Not my reality :) . He advocated another technology, which seemed to me to involve alter-issing rather than as-issing.

Best, Ant
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Re: Academia - its Views and Methods

Debating Academia
I want to make these last comments ....<snip>..... because I feel they are important.
<snip>
Lakey

Suggestion : There is much value to learning to leave the past behind and just moving on with all ones attention directed towards the future than continuing to stick on the past while allowing the present & future to escape ! :duh:
 
Re: author unknown

This looks very much like a John MacMaster piece.

He too was big into LOVE as being the most important aspect/thing/action of existence. And I well remember his speaking of the issues of co-existence and co-create and the upsets at the loss and departure from them. We had private chats on these issues. ...

Thanks for your comments on this, Roger. The piece CO put up reminded me a lot of your topic of discussion at the Pasadena FZ Conference. Another perspective on a similar theme involving the shock from loss of a cooperative game, especially as seen from the perspective you mention above.

I once made an observation on a public board that in a sense all issues boil down to some sort of loss of "arc:"and to a greater or lesser extent that that loss is experienced as a shock & some form of a grief reaction. For me this seems to be along the lines of a general theme which causes the individual's tendency to withdraw with the patterns you & CO cite constituting the 'mechanics'.


Mark A. Baker
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: author unknown

She became a Commodore's Messenger. One night at 2 AM, she fell asleep outside Ron's room. he found her, and had her put in the chain lockers for several days. There is now and never was any way I could reconcile that action. The anger it triggers in me as I type this hasn't dissipated in 40 years.

Compare to this to Napoleon who inspected his troops one night before a battle and found a sentry who had fallen asleep at his post. Napoleon simply took the man's place as sentry, and let him have the rest he's earned.
 
Re: author unknown

This looks very much like a John MacMaster piece.

He too was big into LOVE as being the most important aspect/thing/action of existence. And I well remember his speaking of the issues of co-existence and co-create and the upsets at the loss and departure from them. We had private chats on these issues.

Love is an important item for many folks: for some it is THE most important . . . . but not so for all folks. Others have as their most important "thing" in the game of life as being other items such as knowledge, truth, creation, relationships/alignment, etc., etc.,

Hence, the error in the above piece is that it tells everyone what is true for them . . . and that is always a wrong move . . . Hubbard made that egregious error.

It is wiser to present one's personal discoveries and "importances" as relative. This way others can relate to the datum and fit such correctly in relative terms in accordance to their order of importances.

It is for this reason that when I write what I have to say on "tech" issues, I preface them with "in my observation" . . . for I well know others likely observe differently! :melodramatic:

Rog

Can we talk about Johnny Mac's black side?

[video=youtube;JXU9wn7bs7o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXU9wn7bs7o[/video]

For all his integrity, love, and selflessness, he ended up on skid row, a mean nasty drunk.

His choices of boy toys were not pretty.

His last interaction with Jack Horner, was to treat Jack like dirt (for no discernible reason).

Did he lose himself in the bottle?

Did he find a way to wall out something that he found, that he was unable to live with, by hitting the bottle?
 

cakemaker

Patron Meritorious
Re: A Little Housekeeping Chore

Luv it! :thumbsup:

She was by far the finest ship the SO had in its' “flotilla”. You could lean her over 45 degrees in a turn under flank speed and never feel like you were getting anywhere near the edge. She was built to chase down submerged vessels whatever the topside wind and sea conditions were.


Face :)

Found this about the M/V Bolivar:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/011230.htm

24xdmqw.jpg
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Re: author unknown

Can we talk about Johnny Mac's black side?

[video=youtube;JXU9wn7bs7o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXU9wn7bs7o[/video]

For all his integrity, love, and selflessness, he ended up on skid row, a mean nasty drunk.

His choices of boy toys were not pretty.

His last interaction with Jack Horner, was to treat Jack like dirt (for no discernible reason).

Did he lose himself in the bottle?

Did he find a way to wall out something that he found, that he was unable to live with, by hitting the bottle?

Carl Jung said that alcoholics are frustrated mystics. He also said that they could be cured by seeking out 'vital spiritual experiences' or 'huge emotional rearrangements.' So it looks like he didn't find what he was looking for, or needed.

I think of life this way: If 'bad', or 'very bad' things happen to someone, there are three roads available to them:

The Low Road where they just give up, dive into the bottle, blame the world, don't take care of themselves and their responsibilities.

The High Road where they float above it all and become an unreal fantasist cut off from reality, possibly also misusing alcohol or drugs, and partying too hard.

The Middle Road where you take stock of yourself and get on with the long job of improving yourself, learning the skills you need to take care of yourself, meet your responsibilities to others, and be a 'useful' person to have around.

Sounds like John ended up walking the Low Road, but I don't judge him for it, because I didn't know him.


 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

There was a vessel who served well in WWII and then reduced to rusting away in the custody og the Sea Oeg who couldn't really afford to operate her. Sad.

She go to the wrecking yard after that ?
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Is that a bit like being upset?

Depends. What do you mean by upset? :biggrin:

Feelings & emotions as subjective experience may have 'meaning' to you, but what are they and how are they to be understood? Just because as an artist you are accustomed to accepting your emotions as a given does not mean that is the only way they are to be understood.

That which is sufficient for your own purpose is not necessarily all that could be understood about a topic.


Mark A. Baker :)
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: author unknown

Compare to this to Napoleon who inspected his troops one night before a battle and found a sentry who had fallen asleep at his post. Napoleon simply took the man's place as sentry, and let him have the rest he's earned.

Man, this is G-R-E-A-T S-T-U-F-F, Leon! Thank You. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Anyone that has read General Colin Powell's Autobiography or has been in Command Groks this...damn, I wish he was sitting in the Oval Office. :yes::yes::yes:


Face :)
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

... Yes. Words are Symbols - lower on the Know to Mystery than concepts. Why can't people see this :) ...

Few bother to think about the process of thought and what it actually means to understand. It's a major reason so many people have problems with mathematics. It's not the subject that is difficult, it is the attitudes about the subject. :coolwink:


Mark A. Baker
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Depends. What do you mean by upset? :biggrin:

Feelings & emotions as subjective experience may have 'meaning' to you, but what are they and how are they to be understood? Just because as an artist you are accustomed to accepting your emotions as a given does not mean that is the only way they are to be understood.

That which is sufficient for your own purpose is not necessarily all that could be understood about a topic.


Mark A. Baker :)

Well I was being a little bit silly in asking that question, but I think you know that. Speaking purely for myself, I like to use the word 'feelings', rather than emotions. When I think of 'emotions' that seems to be a good name for what you get when a thought becomes attached to a feeling. Hopefully when that thought and the feeling become separated by whatever means, they can exchange a fond kiss and go their separate ways without rancor. The thought and feeling can become attached to each other wherever a negative judgement of the feeling is made. "I know I shouldn't be feeling like this" or whatever.

In my own easy life, I just concentrate on allowing my feelings to flow naturally and without judgement, without labelling them as 'good', 'bad', 'positive', or 'negative' - just experiencing them, and really properly feeling them without reservation or resistance. Doing that allows the feeling to 'run out of energy' and disipate, leaving a clean body/mind unity to have fun with.

That works for me, but I have had a very easy and protected life, where nothing really bad has ever happened to me, and nobody has ever really hurt me; so whether my way of looking at it would mean much to someone who has experienced some major pain or trauma, I'm not sure.

So for me, a feeling is a feeling, and an emotion is a thought and a feeling bound together by judgement.
 
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Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: author unknown

Can we talk about Johnny Mac's black side?

[video=youtube;JXU9wn7bs7o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXU9wn7bs7o[/video]

For all his integrity, love, and selflessness, he ended up on skid row, a mean nasty drunk.

His choices of boy toys were not pretty.

His last interaction with Jack Horner, was to treat Jack like dirt (for no discernible reason).

Did he lose himself in the bottle?

Did he find a way to wall out something that he found, that he was unable to live with, by hitting the bottle?


I like Smilla's comments on Carl Jung. Seems correct to me.

The situation with John Mac, as I see it, is more along the lines of, "What did he lose?"

Particularly, what did he lose that was precious to him? He spoke a great deal about love.

Fatty, Fatty 2x4 knocked him down and shut the door.

Just imagine the flows of love and admiration John Mac experienced when he was on top of his game. Then realize that he would not have achieved this without Hubbard, Scientology, his auditors, his preclears, every event promoter, staff member, public in attendance, and so on serving as a setup. It wasn't as if John Mac appeared one day nearly walking on water. No. There was a huge setup, particularly in terms of life forces converging in his direction. He was good enough, honorable enough to make use of these forces in promoting Scientology.

Then Hubbard took him down, and out. Hubbard was despicable enough to do this. The loss must have been tremendous on John Mac. I can only imagine. I surmise that the loss to Hubbard and Scientology was tremendous there as well. However, such was the nature of Hubbard's psychosis and sociopathy. Hubbard was an "only one." If anyone approached fame, fortune, or "OT" through Scientology, Fatty went on the attack. After 60+ years, there are no OTs. Why? No one goes OT by themselves, and OT's are not permitted.

ARCXen people attack. So yeah, drink to kill the loss. Drink to stop self from a full-on attack using the same volume of life-force that was used earlier to promote Hubbard and Scientology. I can see where this might have been the case. We will never know. We can only speculate.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Re: author unknown

I like Smilla's comments on Carl Jung. Seems correct to me.

The situation with John Mac, as I see it, is more along the lines of, "What did he lose?"

Particularly, what did he lose that was precious to him? He spoke a great deal about love.

Fatty, Fatty 2x4 knocked him down and shut the door.

Just imagine the flows of love and admiration John Mac experienced when he was on top of his game. Then realize that he would not have achieved this without Hubbard, Scientology, his auditors, his preclears, every event promoter, staff member, public in attendance, and so on serving as a setup. It wasn't as if John Mac appeared one day nearly walking on water. No. There was a huge setup, particularly in terms of life forces converging in his direction. He was good enough, honorable enough to make use of these forces in promoting Scientology.

Then Hubbard took him down, and out. Hubbard was despicable enough to do this. The loss must have been tremendous on John Mac. I can only imagine. I surmise that the loss to Hubbard and Scientology was tremendous there as well. However, such was the nature of Hubbard's psychosis and sociopathy. Hubbard was an "only one." If anyone approached fame, fortune, or "OT" through Scientology, Fatty went on the attack. After 60+ years, there are no OTs. Why? No one goes OT by themselves, and OT's are not permitted.

ARCXen people attack. So yeah, drink to kill the loss. Drink to stop self from a full-on attack using the same volume of life-force that was used earlier to promote Hubbard and Scientology. I can see where this might have been the case. We will never know. We can only speculate.

All that rings true for me, Ted.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Y'r welcome



Yes. Words are Symbols - lower on the Know to Mystery than concepts. Why can't people see this :)


All the best,

Ant

Here is a rare thing - me quoting myself:

"A lot of what we have inside us - what we feel, what resonates for us, 'doesn't make sense' when forced into these little packages called words and dropped into the concensus reality. But that doesn't mean they're not true. What it does mean is that they can't always survive the descent into language undiminished."


 
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