The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Leon]

Re: author unknown

I like Smilla's comments on Carl Jung. Seems correct to me.

The situation with John Mac, as I see it, is more along the lines of, "What did he lose?"

Particularly, what did he lose that was precious to him? He spoke a great deal about love.

Fatty, Fatty 2x4 knocked him down and shut the door.

Just imagine the flows of love and admiration John Mac experienced when he was on top of his game. Then realize that he would not have achieved this without Hubbard, Scientology, his auditors, his preclears, every event promoter, staff member, public in attendance, and so on serving as a setup. It wasn't as if John Mac appeared one day nearly walking on water. No. There was a huge setup, particularly in terms of life forces converging in his direction. He was good enough, honorable enough to make use of these forces in promoting Scientology.

Then Hubbard took him down, and out. Hubbard was despicable enough to do this. The loss must have been tremendous on John Mac. I can only imagine. I surmise that the loss to Hubbard and Scientology was tremendous there as well. However, such was the nature of Hubbard's psychosis and sociopathy. Hubbard was an "only one." If anyone approached fame, fortune, or "OT" through Scientology, Fatty went on the attack. After 60+ years, there are no OTs. Why? No one goes OT by themselves, and OT's are not permitted.

ARCXen people attack. So yeah, drink to kill the loss. Drink to stop self from a full-on attack using the same volume of life-force that was used earlier to promote Hubbard and Scientology. I can see where this might have been the case. We will never know. We can only speculate.

I dunno. I suspect the answer lies more in the Crash and Burn phenomenon that Roger writes about at times. John got an incredible high with being the first Clear and going on a world tour and being able to express to all his feelings of love and all that that embraced.

Then he got hooted out of court for it all. Ridiculed, mocked, made fun of, etc etc etc. So he crashed and burned.

I feel for him.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Re: A Little Housekeeping Chore

Found this about the M/V Bolivar:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/011230.htm

Yep, Carmelo...Cakemaker is A-M-A-Z-I-N-G.

Lemmee tell you folks...your lookin' at one helluva fast, tight and, in its day, all business machine.

During WWII, there was a 3" canon forward, 3 20 mm machine guns midships and abaft 2 Twin 50 cal anti-aircraft machine guns, 2 rocket launchers and depth charge racks starboard and port and probably other stuff I don't know about.

Most ships of that era had moderate to small, hand-grip spoke helms that were geared to create quasi "power steering". The Bolivar's helm was a huge brass wheel without grip spokes...like the steering wheel of a car...and geared like a rack and pinion sports car...you had to wear gloves, you had to be strong, you had to muscle her but you could "feel" where you were at, she told you what was going on...she was one a helluva ship!

I'm sure she's long gone to scrap, which is A OK with me. The SO, IMO was rather an ignoble ending for such a fine vessel, such a fine work of engineering and labor.

To you, fair Bolivar......I will always remember that day with the throb of your engines in my feet and beckoning in my hands, "Let me run...Just one more time, let-me-run...I was born to run!"

Face

 

[Terril park]

Re: author unknown

Can we talk about Johnny Mac's black side?

[video=youtube;JXU9wn7bs7o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXU9wn7bs7o[/video]

For all his integrity, love, and selflessness, he ended up on skid row, a mean nasty drunk.

His choices of boy toys were not pretty.

His last interaction with Jack Horner, was to treat Jack like dirt (for no discernible reason).

Did he lose himself in the bottle?

Did he find a way to wall out something that he found, that he was unable to live with, by hitting the bottle?

IMO far more likely is the wrong indication/outlist of being declared by LRH. And all the destruction of personal goals specially re tech.

 

[Terril park]

Re: A Little Housekeeping Chore

Yep, Carmelo...Cakemaker is A-M-A-Z-I-N-G.

Lemmee tell you folks...your lookin' at one helluva fast, tight and, in its day, all business machine.

During WWII, there was a 3" canon forward, 3 20 mm machine guns midships and abaft 2 Twin 50 cal anti-aircraft machine guns, 2 rocket launchers and depth charge racks starboard and port and probably other stuff I don't know about.

Most ships of that era had moderate to small, hand-grip spoke helms that were geared to create quasi "power steering". The Bolivar's helm was a huge brass wheel without grip spokes...like the steering wheel of a car...and geared like a rack and pinion sports car...you had to wear gloves, you had to be strong, you had to muscle her but you could "feel" where you were at, she told you what was going on...she was one a helluva ship!

I'm sure she's long gone to scrap, which is A OK with me. The SO, IMO was rather an ignoble ending for such a fine vessel, such a fine work of engineering and labor.

To you, fair Bolivar......I will always remember that day with the throb of your engines in my feet and beckoning in my hands, "Let me run...Just one more time, let-me-run...I was born to run!"

Face

I have a common guy feel for excellent machinery. I apreciate this love letter

 

[RogerB]

Re: author unknown

Can we talk about Johnny Mac's black side?

[video=youtube;JXU9wn7bs7o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXU9wn7bs7o[/video]

For all his integrity, love, and selflessness, he ended up on skid row, a mean nasty drunk.

His choices of boy toys were not pretty.

His last interaction with Jack Horner, was to treat Jack like dirt (for no discernible reason).

Did he lose himself in the bottle?

Did he find a way to wall out something that he found, that he was unable to live with, by hitting the bottle?

Is this above as personally witnessed of John Mac, or hearsay and rumour . . .

I'll vouch for the fact that he was very bitter and upset regarding his treatment and/or association with Hubbard. And I can vouch for his inclination for boys versus girls . . . he tried it on with me, to be disappointed and "wounded" by my rejection . . . .

But all the rest above is rather nasty . . . particularly the statement: "a mean nasty drunk."

I can vouch for his bitterness after he came out of $cn: but I never saw an ounce of meanness or nastiness in him, or from him.

He in actuality was a very loving man but very, very disappointed.

He was gay, and he did drink more than is wise . . . but I will tell you something else, there was a plant by the GO with him as a "friend" whose role it was to get him drinking excessively on the basis that it was known John had a stomach ulcer and the think (cum plot) was to bring about John's death as a result of excess Scotch. This told to me by the individual who was the "operative."

Gays can have a response to others that either offend or piss them off (for whatever reason) that can be seen by others as that they are "treated like dirt" . . . so I would get the facts of what the interchange was all about on the Jack Horner thing was about before I added it onto the heap of vitriol against John.

My observations of John was that he was honest; and yes he ended up bitter and very disappointed as a result of his interaction with Hubbard . . . . but hey: isn't that what this forum is all about? We are pissed that Hubbard betrayed and misled and lied to us.

John may well have suffered that betrayal to an extend far greater than any other (though I'd put David Mayo up there in that league also).

So unless you've got something you can contribute on the subject of John Mac that can benefit us, it is better to leave the rumour and the vitriol and nastiness off of the line.

Rog

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Re: A Little Housekeeping Chore

... Most ships of that era had moderate to small, hand-grip spoke helms that were geared to create quasi "power steering". The Bolivar's helm was a huge brass wheel without grip spokes...like the steering wheel of a car...and geared like a rack and pinion sports car...you had to wear gloves, you had to be strong, you had to muscle her but you could "feel" where you were at, she told you what was going on...she was one a helluva ship!
...

The ships from that era on which I've served had hydraulic steering systems. Most of what you felt was resistance reflected back from the rudder due to the power being applied through the hydraulics & linkage. It gave a sense of rudder 'bite' but I could tell more about the motion of the vessel through my feet as a result of the vibrations of the hull, heel, pitch, yaw, etc.. I'm not a surfer but I likened it to blue water surfing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbGYC5Kyq9U


Mark A. Baker

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Re: A Little Housekeeping Chore

The ships from that era on which I've served had hydraulic steering systems. Most of what you felt was resistance reflected back from the rudder due to the power being applied through the hydraulics & linkage. It gave a sense of rudder 'bite' but I could tell more about the motion of the vessel through my feet as a result of the vibrations of the hull, heel, pitch, yaw, etc.. I'm not a surfer but I likened it to blue water surfing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbGYC5Kyq9U


Mark A. Baker

Thanks, Mark. By "geared" I meant about how the helm "felt" to the helmsman. I've helmed a few ships from that era, been in the wheelhouse of a number of others and had some chats with helmsman from back then.

Yes, you are correct, it was hydraulics and not "gearing". I shoulda said "tuned" or "designed" or "set-up". My point was that the Bolivar was different than most ships from that era...it was like a sports car. The "feel" in the helm, the "responsiveness" to the helm" and the overall stability was like a much smaller craft than it was.

The ship just felt like it had been designed by the designers, detailed by the engineers...and the shipbuilders had pulled it off...to be a ship that told everyone on the bridge and the guy holding that wheel exactly what they needed to know...if they were paying attention.

Face

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Re: A Little Housekeeping Chore

... The ship just felt like it had been designed by the designers, detailed by the engineers...and the shipbuilders had pulled it off...to be a ship that told everyone on the bridge and the guy holding that wheel exactly what they needed to know...if they were paying attention.

Face

No doubt it was. The size & power specs needed to fulfill its intended mission I should think would impose a very 'responsive' quality to the vessel. I heard once from an old time navy guy who had served on the monster Iowa class battle ships that steering them was like driving a cadillac with power steering. You didn't feel a thing.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Re: A Little Housekeeping Chore

Thanks, Mark. By "geared" I meant about how the helm "felt" to the helmsman. I've helmed a few ships from that era, been in the wheelhouse of a number of others and had some chats with helmsman from back then.

Yes, you are correct, it was hydraulics and not "gearing". I shoulda said "tuned" or "designed" or "set-up". My point was that the Bolivar was different than most ships from that era...it was like a sports car. The "feel" in the helm, the "responsiveness" to the helm" and the overall stability was like a much smaller craft than it was.

The ship just felt like it had been designed by the designers, detailed by the engineers...and the shipbuilders had pulled it off...to be a ship that told everyone on the bridge and the guy holding that wheel exactly what they needed to know...if they were paying attention.

Face

For me ? PT Boat was the thriller for being at the helm.
The designer of the PT Boat also made a line of pleasure boats that were quick but no where near the power of the PT boat.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Re: A Little Housekeeping Chore

For me ? PT Boat was the thriller for being at the helm.
The designer of the PT Boat also made a line of pleasure boats that were quick but no where near the power of the PT boat.

Luv it, Toady!

Sub Chaser...PT Boat...Kinda like drivin' a Shelby GT 350 or an Austin-Healy 3000 MK II...either way, you better sinch up your jock 'cause youze in for one helluva ride.

Face

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Here is a rare thing - me quoting myself:

"A lot of what we have inside us - what we feel, what resonates for us, 'doesn't make sense' when forced into these little packages called words and dropped into the concensus reality. But that doesn't mean they're not true. What it does mean is that they can't always survive the descent into language undiminished."

Boy, you can say THAT again!

If you've ever run into someone whom you seem to have had a lot of past track ups and downs with you know the feeling of being completely at a loss amidst extremely conflicting feelings and forces. Even though you're in a whirlwind of emotions you play hell trying to pick out the correct significances to go with the 'energies' bombarding you. Intense unresolved conflict where you've gone at it using every script under heaven leaves you at a loss for articulating 'why' you are having such feelings.

Someone has certain intentions along with you and you are on the same team steering towards the same outcome or vision. Then they become an enemy out to destroy you and that mutual vision. How does one's heart record impressions of who is the friend or the foe in the accomplishment of a dream. One almost needs a bottle to review the log.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

[video=youtube;KXj8l_1qIZA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXj8l_1qIZA&sns=em[/video]

NO GLAMOUR HERE!

[video=youtube;jzHZxh_vYWE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzHZxh_vYWE&sns=em[/video]

 

[FoTi]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Boy, you can say THAT again!

If you've ever run into someone whom you seem to have had a lot of past track ups and downs with you know the feeling of being completely at a loss amidst extremely conflicting feelings and forces. Even though you're in a whirlwind of emotions you play hell trying to pick out the correct significances to go with the 'energies' bombarding you. Intense unresolved conflict where you've gone at it using every script under heaven leaves you at a loss for articulating 'why' you are having such feelings.

Someone has certain intentions along with you and you are on the same team steering towards the same outcome or vision. Then they become an enemy out to destroy you and that mutual vision. How does one's heart record impressions of who is the friend or the foe in the accomplishment of a dream. One almost needs a bottle to review the log.

Extreme confusion. Emotionally painful!!

 

[Terril park]

Re: A Little Housekeeping Chore

Luv it, Toady!

Sub Chaser...PT Boat...Kinda like drivin' a Shelby GT 350 or an Austin-Healy 3000 MK II...either way, you better sinch up your jock 'cause youze in for one helluva ride.

Face

In the movie "Battleship" it shows the USS Missouri in what may be a full flank speed turn and listing about 30 degrees. The Missouri is normally docked and a tourist attraction. Whether they took her out
or did this by CGI I don't know. It was my favourite part of the movie.

Not that well recieved, but if like I you love Sci-Fi you'll love this movie.


http://www.google.co.uk/movies?hl=e...=4QrjT97iL8XLsgbOjenABg&sqi=2&ved=0CAkQwAMoAg

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: A Little Housekeeping Chore

Yep, Carmelo...Cakemaker is A-M-A-Z-I-N-G.

Lemmee tell you folks...your lookin' at one helluva fast, tight and, in its day, all business machine.

During WWII, there was a 3" canon forward, 3 20 mm machine guns midships and abaft 2 Twin 50 cal anti-aircraft machine guns, 2 rocket launchers and depth charge racks starboard and port and probably other stuff I don't know about.

Most ships of that era had moderate to small, hand-grip spoke helms that were geared to create quasi "power steering". The Bolivar's helm was a huge brass wheel without grip spokes...like the steering wheel of a car...and geared like a rack and pinion sports car...you had to wear gloves, you had to be strong, you had to muscle her but you could "feel" where you were at, she told you what was going on...she was one a helluva ship!

I'm sure she's long gone to scrap, which is A OK with me. The SO, IMO was rather an ignoble ending for such a fine vessel, such a fine work of engineering and labor.

To you, fair Bolivar......I will always remember that day with the throb of your engines in my feet and beckoning in my hands, "Let me run...Just one more time, let-me-run...I was born to run!"

Face

I had always figured that the Bolivar was renamed by the Sea Org in the manner that the Royal Scotsman was renamed the Apollo. After all, Hubbard talked several times about Simon Bolivar and wrote up a major PL about him, "The Responsibility of Leaders", I think it was called but not sure. Hubbard even strongly recommended a book about Bolivar's consort, "The 4 Seasons of Manuela".

It comes as a surprise that the U.S. chose that name for the Ship. Isn't it rare for the U.S. Navy to name ships after a foreign dignitary?
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

There was a vessel who served well in WWII and then reduced to rusting away in the custody og the Sea Oeg who couldn't really afford to operate her. Sad.

She go to the wrecking yard after that ?

I agree with your conclusion, Toady, but I'm not so sure about the rusting away, at least while the S.O. ran the ships. When staff were busted or sent down for rehab, one of our major duties was always to chip away rust from the ship and then apply a rust proof coating. I'm not sure but I seem to recall this as being called "pinholing".

" Pinholing
In decorating, pinholing is a defect in a painted or varnished surface characterised by minute craters or 'pin holes' in the film which are slightly rough to the touch and allow the passage of moisture. Pinholing may be caused by incorrect application or shaking of the varnish resulting in tiny air ..."
Found on http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/brow

I looked it up and it looks like the little rust areas themselves are referred to as pinholing but the S.O. members used the word to mean the task of repairing the pinholing.

You'e probably right that the ships rusted out after the S.O. decided they were too expensive to maintain.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Few bother to think about the process of thought and what it actually means to understand. It's a major reason so many people have problems with mathematics. It's not the subject that is difficult, it is the attitudes about the subject.


Mark A. Baker

I disagree. Basic arithmetic is pretty simple but advanced mathematics can get extremely complex. Check out the Reimann Zeta function. That is something that is very difficult (to understand). Sometimes things which sound simple are extremely difficult such as Goldbach's conjecture, "can every even number, 4 or greater, be written as the sum of two prime numbers?" Goldbach asked that extremely simple sounding question in 1742 and to this date, it still has not been proved.
Lakey

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I did a tour of the Bolivar one time - I think she was a mine sweeper. I was told she could stop in her own length from full throttle. A guy (Mike? rather overweight) told me he was sitting on the stern of the ship while it was zipping along feet dangling above the water. He said the captain (Sabrisky?) hated him, so he dumped the ship in full reverse to bring it to a full stop. The stern dug down into the water and Mike hastily grabbed on to the stanchions, as his body extended fully behind him, the sea water rushing onto the stern, nearly washing him off the ship.

Mimsey

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Re: A Little Housekeeping Chore

I had always figured that the Bolivar was renamed by the Sea Org in the manner that the Royal Scotsman was renamed the Apollo. After all, Hubbard talked several times about Simon Bolivar and wrote up a major PL about him, "The Responsibility of Leaders", I think it was called but not sure. Hubbard even strongly recommended a book about Bolivar's consort, "The 4 Seasons of Manuela".

It comes as a surprise that the U.S. chose that name for the Ship. Isn't it rare for the U.S. Navy to name ships after a foreign dignitary?
Lakey

I never said anywhere that the ship was named the "Bolivar" by the US Navy...it wasn't. I can't recall what the name was anymore. There was a picture (at least shortly after acquisition) and some original commissioning papers in the Captains Quarters.

Face

PS: Yes, the PL was "The Responsibility of Leaders".

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: author unknown

This looks very much like a John MacMaster piece.

He too was big into LOVE as being the most important aspect/thing/action of existence. And I well remember his speaking of the issues of co-existence and co-create and the upsets at the loss and departure from them. We had private chats on these issues.

Love is an important item for many folks: for some it is THE most important . . . . but not so for all folks. Others have as their most important "thing" in the game of life as being other items such as knowledge, truth, creation, relationships/alignment, etc., etc.,

Hence, the error in the above piece is that it tells everyone what is true for them . . . and that is always a wrong move . . . Hubbard made that egregious error.

It is wiser to present one's personal discoveries and "importances" as relative. This way others can relate to the datum and fit such correctly in relative terms in accordance to their order of importances.

It is for this reason that when I write what I have to say on "tech" issues, I preface them with "in my observation" . . . for I well know others likely observe differently!

Rog

Thanks for this informative post! Speaking of love, I've seen it written on ESMB several times that Hubbard had virtually nothing to say about love. He defined it as "admiration and respect" and then said no more about it, as far as I know.

This omission might have something to do with restricting the growth of C of S worldwide. A religion charging high prices and not regarding "love" as essential is a tough sell as far as bringing people in in droves. Everything else about the church would have to be nearly perfect to overcome these two obstacles and of course that is not the case.

In DM's "church" I would go so far as to say that not only is love not encouraged but it is not even tolerated. DM seems to look at it as human emotion and reaction (HE&R) and a sign of weakness.

Mac Master's primary motivation seemed to be LOVE and LRH barely acknowledged the existence of LOVE. It's not surprising that LRH got rid of MaccMaster just based on that one consideration alone.

Rog, do you see any merit in my remarks or do you think I am oversimplifying or what?
Lakey