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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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Re: Rambling Discordantly Off Topic

Somewhere, probably not on this thread as I post mostly in other places than here - this is my humor thread.

Anyway....somebody mentioned they liked my old avatar better than this pig flying one. I did, too !

Unfortunately, *in a free society people are free to pick the avatar of their choice* & while I like the pirate hat somebody else went to an avatar with a pirate hat so I changed mine to the flying pig. Plus I gave a nice nod to the " I Love Pink " crowd.

I have a few dozen avatars and I may go look at what else I could use & like.

" however, when I rule the world I may put firm rules in place about picture selection for avatars and require one not choose an avatar too closely resembling another avatar already in use. Sort of like user names, I'd not allow AT 2 when there is an AT or no J & D of anothers name, like there is a Lakey so I'd allow no one to use Fakey. Things like that. That child like playing with names like calling Lakey by Lappy - no, none of that ! I'd not allow that either !

Anyway, I'm off to look for a new avatar. I'd like to use a naked woman but that might offend some people. Wonder if I could use a naked man... full frontal ?
That would have some appeal, eh ? HMMM. I could use a naked Toad !*
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

In keeping with the spirit of whatever & noticing that sometimes some threads do wander from the intentions of the OP I thought I'd take a moment to help get us all back on track for the thread.

I humbly offer this as some food for thought :

"Troll (Internet)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

"Do not feed the trolls" and "DNFTT" redirect here. For the Wikipedia essay, see Wikipedia:Deny recognition.


The "trollface", first appearing in 2008, is often used to indicate trolling in contemporary internet culture.[1] Modern usage of the word itself dates from 1980s.
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted."


Directed at no one in particular or no topic other than " Aboard the Apollo -1973"

No need to thank me for this public service announcement - it was made out of my concern for the future of the thread !
 
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Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Mark A. Baker said:
I disagree. Far from being laughable I find such abundant gross misconceptions to be utterly tragic.


Mark a. Baker
Click to expand...

This is what he said, Mark

"They haven't held the US military at bay for over 10 years. That is such a false assertion. The original fighting where the Taliban government was completely defeated occurred very quickly with a relatively small contingent of U.S. fighters supported by many of our allies.

From then on, our activities there consisted of attempting to protect the new government and help make it able to defend itself against the Taliban and its allies. Since only a tiny portion of our forces were approved to see action there, the best the Taliban could do was mount guerrilla raids against the new government we set up or set off suicide bombs in the vicinity of U. S. occupied areas."

He said they held off the Soviet Army for years.

They only fought with insurgets against the Soviets for years.

It was the exact same thing we are going through and when the Soviets left the government they supported was overrun by the Taliban.

And when the U.S. forces leave the same thing will happen.

Yes people can say we are "Great, yeah, yeah" But it is the same thing happening.

They fought insurgents to protect the government, we fight insurgents to protect the government.

Word it however you want to convince yourself that we are the victors.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Terril park said:
If you go to Prague as I did I expect you'll still see the Russian bullet holes in the buildings and statues.
Click to expand...

I don't know much about what happened in Prague. The Nazi's did annex the Sudetenland portion of Czechoslovakia to Germany and occupied the rest of the Czech part of the country. The Russians took that country back from Nazi control in 1945. Do you know if the bullet holes were made during WWII while fighting the Nazi's or after WWII while putting down a Czech revolt?

A better example would be Hungary which staged a major uprising against Soviet occupation in 1956. The Russian's brought in tanks and heavy guns to extinguish this revolt, killing Hungarian freedom fighters as well as innocent citizens in the process of crushing the rebellion.

I chose not to mention the above incidents feeling that they were not relevant to the point TAJ was making. He was referring more to Russia threatening foreign countries with bombings of missile bases if those countries set up missile pointed at Russia.

I felt that putting down rebellions against the USSR started by former satellite countries was quite a bit different than threatening foreign powers so I didn't bother to mention those skirmishes in my comments.
Lakey
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

As regards US missiles in Poland: It's a bad idea - every bit as bad as the Russians putting missiles in Mexico would be. It would show a lack of 'good faith'. Good faith is the foundation stone of any kind of healthily functioning relationship. It would be hard to see any signs of good faith from someone who's holding a gun to your head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmaxc4SlN7w
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The Anabaptist Jacques said:
Of course it is my opinion just like every thing you wrote is your opinion.

Yes, but when I give an opinion, I make it clear that it's an opinion while you assert your opinions as if they are facts.

The Soviets agreed to declare war three months to the day after the war in Europe is over.

This is because Roosevelt and Churchill asked Stalin to do this at Yalta in November of 1944.

Stalin kept the U.S informed of the negotiations with Japan. You are simply making this up.

I'm not making it up. The History Channel ran a series called, "The Unknown War" or something like that. It was a long series that ran for several days which concerned the war which the Soviets started with Japan on August 11, 1945. The series went into detail on what happened after the first Atomic Bomb was dropped. They say that the Emperor wanted to surrender but the Japanese Military Leaders did not. They tell of the Emperor approaching the Russian Ambassadors, still in Japan, and asking them to transmit a message to Stalin who would in turn transmit the message to the Americans, letting them know that the Emperor was ready to negotiate surrender. The message never got forwarded to the Americans or British. I'll check it out further and try and find the video on youtube and post it.

And people who lose 28 million people in a war are not cowardly.

And no one has said they are!! Another instance of your putting words in someone else's mouth and then attacking those words that you yourself made up. Can you please stop using this stupid tactic!

I said the attack against Japan, on August 11 was cowardly. The decision to attack a hopelessly beaten and defeated country who had just had an atomic bomb dropped on its territory was a cowardly deed perpetrated by the Soviet government, Stalin in particular. The Soviet people were not cowardly.

You're just prejudice and I think this alters your views of the facts.

The US strategic intelligence said this would cause Japan to surrender without an invasion.

Uh Hello! Have you ever heard of the Atomic Bomb. At the meeting 3 months earlier, the existence of the Atomic Bomb was not factored into the equation - it was top secret and no one was certain that an operational bomb would exist in 3 months time. Upon the successful dropping of the first A Bomb, the equation changed drastically. With Germany totally defeated and Japan, an area the size of California with 100 million people, left with no allies to fight the rest of the world, a world which now had nuclear arms, somehow I don't believe I don't believe the Russian attack was necessary to prevent an invasion of Japan.

Talk about naive, if you believe that Stalin invaded Japan to aid the USA and Great Britain and not to secure Japanese territory and have a major say as one of the victors at the peace negotiations, you are taking being naive to a new level.


Your quote from Khrushchev backs up what I had said--that he was referring to economics, not war. It was the American government and media who told Americans that he was talking about war.

My quote just shows that Khrushchev said, "We will bury you!" Three years later he shifted gears and only then said that he was talking economically. Who believes what Khrushchev says, He said that the USSR would bury us. The press reported his words. People reacted accordingly. Nearly 3 years passed without him clarifying what he meant, then he finally says he means economically. Khrushchev is not known for telling the truth. He said whatever he believed would promote his cause the best, whether it was true or a lie was not his main concern. If he really cared about the truth, he would have clarified immediately and not waited 3 years.

I think you are being very naive taking him at his word.

And I have to say that your assessment of what is going on in Afghanistan is laughable.

The Anabaptist Jacques
Click to expand...

Here's some figures for you regarding the Soviet action:

"The Soviet war in Afghanistan was a war fought between the forces of the Soviet Union, and Islamic tribes of Afghanistan who were against the Communist government set up by the Soviets. The war began in December 1979, and lasted until February 1989. About 15,000 Soviet soldiers were killed, and about 35,000 were wounded. About one million Afghans were killed. The anti-Communist Afghan forces had support from many countries, mainly the United States and Pakistan."

Here are some facts regarding the US action:

As of Tuesday, July 10, 2012, at least 1,900 members of the U.S. military had died in Afghanistan as a result of the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan in late 2001, according to an Associated Press count.

Since the start of U.S. military operations in Afghanistan, 16,781 U.S. service members have been wounded in hostile action, according to the Defense Department.

The decade-long War in Afghanistan (2001–present) has caused the deaths of thousands of Afghan civilians directly from insurgent and foreign military action, as well as the deaths of possibly tens of thousands of Afghan civilians indirectly as a consequence of displacement, starvation, disease, exposure, lack of medical treatment, crime and lawlessness resulting from the war.

You have 1,900 American dead versus 15,000 Soviet dead, 16,800 wounded versus 35,000 wounded and thousands to perhaps tens of thousands of Afghan citizens killed as compared to one million Afghans killed. We were not held at bay to anywhere near the degree the Soviet Union was held at bay and we caused only about 1/50th to 1/100th the amount of civilian deaths as the Soviet Union did yet you infer that our experience in Afghanistan is similar to that of the Soviets. The stats show you to be in error.
Lakey
 
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Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

lkwdblds said:
I don't know much about what happened in Prague. The Nazi's did annex the Sudetenland portion of Czechoslovakia to Germany and occupied the rest of the Czech part of the country. The Russians took that country back from Nazi control in 1945. Do you know if the bullet holes were made during WWII while fighting the Nazi's or after WWII while putting down a Czech revolt?

A better example would be Hungary which staged a major uprising against Soviet occupation in 1956. The Russian's brought in tanks and heavy guns to extinguish this revolt, killing Hungarian freedom fighters as well as innocent citizens in the process of crushing the rebellion.

I chose not to mention the above incidents feeling that they were not relevant to the point TAJ was making. He was referring more to Russia threatening foreign countries with bombings of missile bases if those countries set up missile pointed at Russia.

I felt that putting down rebellions against the USSR started by former satellite countries was quite a bit different than threatening foreign powers so I didn't bother to mention those skirmishes in my comments.
Lakey
Click to expand...

And it is not just there but also in the other Soviet Bloc countries.

Even if there are no bullet holes, there was crushed freedom and ruined lives.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

lkwdblds said:
Here's some figures for you regarding the Soviet action:

"The Soviet war in Afghanistan was a war fought between the forces of the Soviet Union, and Islamic tribes of Afghanistan who were against the Communist government set up by the Soviets. The war began in December 1979, and lasted until February 1989. About 15,000 Soviet soldiers were killed, and about 35,000 were wounded. About one million Afghans were killed. The anti-Communist Afghan forces had support from many countries, mainly the United States and Pakistan."

Here are some facts regarding the US action:

As of Tuesday, July 10, 2012, at least 1,900 members of the U.S. military had died in Afghanistan as a result of the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan in late 2001, according to an Associated Press count.

Since the start of U.S. military operations in Afghanistan, 16,781 U.S. service members have been wounded in hostile action, according to the Defense Department.
Click to expand...

The Americcan medical facilities for our wounded soldiers are the best in the world.

Every US war saw a decline in the death to wounded ration. Our guys are airlifted to state of the art medicacl facilities. Especiallly thanks to helicopters.

That is why in the Korean War, which was the first U.S. war with the use of helicopters had a dramatic drop in dead to wounded ratio.

The Soviets were fighting in the 1980s with their tactics and their technology.

We are fighting in the 21st century with our technology and our tactics.

Ever heard of drones?

Besides, the U.S was arming the Afghan insurgents quite heavily with sophisticated weapons (hand-held surface-to-air missiles for example).

Today the Afghans do not have that advantage.

The bottom line, and my point was, that the Soviets fought against insurgents to support the government and the U.S. is fighting against insurgents to support the government.

And both are being held at bay.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The Anabaptist Jacques said:
And it is not just there but also in the other Soviet Bloc countries.

Even if there are no bullet holes, there was crushed freedom and ruined lives.

The Anabaptist Jacques
Click to expand...

TAJ, no doubt over 99% of the readers here know exactly what you are saying.
I'm sitting here laughing so hard tears are running down my face & my sided hurting as out little buddy tries to re-write history even faster than he can type.

Is seeing it on TV ( As seen on TV ! ) make something more truthful than the 'net ?
Curious minds want to know !

No kidding, soon we are going to see the National Inquirer & Freedumb Magazine as " sources" of "facts" !

God, I love this thread !

Anybody know the fate of the Apollo ?
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

It's a pity that the many killed and wounded innocent civilians, don't enjoy such facilities.

It's often said that the innocent have nothing to fear, but in war, the innocent have much to fear.

In any war.
 
Note on Pilot’s Post – Past Present Future

Note on Pilot’s Post – Past Present Future

This little digression is aimed at readers of the Apollo thread on ExScn Message Board

Re the past.
Pilot wrote them. I was contacted by the Pilot before his identity was revealed to the “Church”, maintained contact as one of a small circle until his death.

My “journalism”. I got data on communication from Scientology, worked in HCO at SH (UK), worked in Pubs org, which was the sort of journalistic part of Scientology. No journalistic training. Have been very interested in communication to and among groups, and gained experience in “amateur” journalism with nearly twenty years working for “FriScientology” magazines, examples at: http://articles.ivymag.org/ and running “friScientology” lists. Good group communication is important for individual freedom (and happiness also, I think).

About three months ago I visited a “secretive” friend. We usually discuss music and listen to his library, and discuss local FriScientology – and eat his 2Ds marvelous cake. This time the subject got onto the Pilot, and I discovered that he had made a deep study of the Pilot's posting, had them neatly in his computer, and had made a separate folder of his favourites. That triggered me into sending these excerpts (even before Pubs org I was a “relayer” as Mimeo SH, and I suppose earlier as a Scientology instructor).

My “cognition” was that the Pilot's work has not had enough airing, and I did something about it. I decided to post on the three list I have access to (I don't have a wide circle of reading), and wanted to announce it on Ex-Scn Message Board. A friend offered to put them on, since I could not really see where to put them (I had posted a few times announcements, but could not remember how I did. To my surprise it landed on the Apollo thread, which I was assured had an enormous number of hits.

However later I found that another friend would have nothing to do with the Apollo list, I think considering it violated the spirit of the Message Board.

And quite frankly, I am not looking for a high statistic in hits. It is a quality audience I am looking for. People who really want to read the Pilot, and possibly discuss it (but reading is enough - I got most of the knowledge I gained since I came into Scientology by reading and listening, and pondering, and not by discussion – so the number of people who reply to these posts does not bother me much).

The long and short of it is that I will be starting a new thread on ESMB devoted to excerpts from the Pilot's Posts. And after a while, discontinue post as part of the "Apollo". They are pretty long, so it may be I put a link in instead of posting – that is undecided .

But they will still come out every Wednesday (Danish early Wednesday), tomorrow's will be sitting here, and you will be advised (here) of where to find when I move.

On the long term future, I can say that I think there are enough “gems” to last a few years and I am game to keep posting them. I am appreciative of comments and suggestions as to how to relay to appreciative individuals – and your recommending to individuals you know who might be interested.

All best wishes,

Ant
 
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Re: Note on Pilot’s Post – Past Present Future

Antony A Phillips said:
Note on Pilot’s Post – Past Present Future

This little digression is aimed at readers of the Apollo thread on ExScn Message Board

Re the past.
Pilot wrote them. I was contacted by the Pilot before his identity was revealed to the “Church”, maintained contact as one of a small circle until his death.

My “journalism”. I got data on communication from Scientology, worked in HCO at SH (UK), worked in Pubs org, which was the sort of journalistic part of Scientology. No journalistic training. Have been very interested in communication to and among groups, and gained experience in “amateur” journalism with nearly twenty years working for “FriScientology” magazines, examples at: http://articles.ivymag.org/ and running “friScientology” lists. Good group communication is important for individual freedom (and happiness also, I think).

About three months ago I visited a “secretive” friend. We usually discuss music and listen to his library, and discuss local FriScientology – and eat his 2Ds marvelous cake. This time the subject got onto the Pilot, and I discovered that he had made a deep study of the Pilot's posting, had them neatly in his computer, and had made a separate folder of his favourites. That triggered me into sending these excerpts (even before Pubs org I was a “relayer” as Mimeo SH, and I suppose earlier as a Scientology instructor).

My “cognition” was that the Pilot's work has not had enough airing, and I did something about it. I decided to post on the three list I have access to (I don't have a wide circle of reading), and wanted to announce it on Ex-Scn Message Board. A friend offered to put them on, since I could not really see where to put them (I had posted a few times announcements, but could not remember how I did. To my surprise it landed on the Apollo thread, which I was assured had an enormous number of hits.

However later I found that another friend would have nothing to do with the Apollo list, I think considering it violated the spirit of the Message Board.

And quite frankly, I am not looking for a high statistic in hits. It is a quality audience I am looking for. People who really want to read the Pilot, and possibly discuss it (but reading is enough - I got most of the knowledge I gained since I came into Scientology by reading and listening, and pondering, and not by discussion – so the number of people who reply to these posts does not bother me much).

The long and short of it is that I will be starting a new thread on ESMB devoted to excerpts from the Pilot's Posts. And after a while, discontinue post as part of the "Apollo". They are pretty long, so it may be I put a link in instead of posting – that is undecided .

But they will still come out every Wednesday (Danish early Wednesday), tomorrow's will be sitting here, and you will be advised (here) of where to find when I move.

On the long term future, I can say that I think there are enough “gems” to last a few years and I am game to keep posting them. I am appreciative of comments and suggestions as to how to relay to appreciative individuals – and your recommending to individuals you know who might be interested.

All best wishes,

Ant
Click to expand...

IO suggest a separate thread AND posting them here.
 
Re: Note on Pilot’s Post – Past Present Future

Antony A Phillips said:
Note on Pilot’s Post – Past Present Future

This little digression is aimed at readers of the Apollo thread on ExScn Message Board

. . . Snipped . . . . . .

The long and short of it is that I will be starting a new thread on ESMB devoted to excerpts from the Pilot's Posts. And after a while, discontinue post as part of the "Apollo". They are pretty long, so it may be I put a link in instead of posting – that is undecided .

But they will still come out every Wednesday (Danish early Wednesday), tomorrow's will be sitting here, and you will be advised (here) of where to find when I move.

On the long term future, I can say that I think there are enough “gems” to last a few years and I am game to keep posting them. I am appreciative of comments and suggestions as to how to relay to appreciative individuals – and your recommending to individuals you know who might be interested.

All best wishes,

Ant
Click to expand...

Ant,

I was thinking as I read this post of yours, just before the point I snipped to above, that it would be best for you to start a dedicated thread for this stuff. That way you would get the same number of eyeballs as was "promised" if you posted on this Apollo thread . . . but actually you'd get MORE eyeballs . . . there are those who hit ESMB and do not come aboard here, but note and go to the subjects that interest them.

And besides, you and the Pilot deserve your own place in the scheme of things: you and his work are both way bigger than what's on this thread.

Rog
 
Re: Note on Pilot’s Post – Past Present Future

RogerB said:
Ant,

I was thinking as I read this post of yours, just before the point I snipped to above, that it would be best for you to start a dedicated thread for this stuff. That way you would get the same number of eyeballs as was "promised" if you posted on this Apollo thread . . . but actually you'd get MORE eyeballs . . . there are those who hit ESMB and do not come aboard here, but note and go to the subjects that interest them.

And besides, you and the Pilot deserve your own place in the scheme of things: you and his work are both way bigger than what's on this thread.

Rog
Click to expand...
Well said !
This thread had some data about the early days on the Apollo & peoples opinion of it. And that was fun. That seems to have run it's course and now the thread is more concerned with trivia about music or wars or a somebodys house party.

Others have left here to start threads about topic of not only of histortical significance but insights afforded by those who were on the scene and know what went down.

While someone may promise " enormous number of hits " on the Apollo as has been pointed out some of the very finest posters will no longer post here.

Yes, there is that "highest ever stat" mentality that will do whatever to get the hits of the page up. And one can see " high hit numbers' here, however, from what I've seen of your comments and what you have posted of the Pilot for us to see, uh, quality rather than quantity would serve a better purpose.

Please do your own " Pilot " thread and share with all of us the contribution to you have to make. My bet ? You'll have grateful readers who appreciate quality that is within the spirit of ESMB !

Toady.


PS : While links to previous posts work just fine it is also relatively easy to copy & paste longish posts.
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The Anabaptist Jacques said:
And it is not just there but also in the other Soviet Bloc countries.

Even if there are no bullet holes, there was crushed freedom and ruined lives.

The Anabaptist Jacques
Click to expand...

Of course, I agree with you on this!

My posts tend to be too long and I'm looking for ways to shorten them so I chose to leave out instances where the Soviet Union crushed freedom and ruined lives in their Eastern European satellite countries. No doubt about it, they certainly did that to enforce their authority on these countries. Poland in particular comes to mind. The Polish are a very brave people and have suffered greatly over the centuries. I read James Michener's novel "Poland" when in my late twenties.

Geographically lying in a non mountainous area between Russia and Prussia (a former part of Germany which devoted itself to a military tradition), the Russian and German armies battled back and forth over the centuries, often using Poland as their battleground and often subjugating the Poles and annexing their territory. For quite a while, Poland did not appear on the map as a separate country as various parts were in either Germany or Russia.

For that reason, I was disappointed when President Obama chose not to consult with the Poles in deciding not to put in the NATO missiles which were to act as a deterrent to Russia. I tend to agree with you that it is not a smart thing to install these missiles but what happened to the diplomacy which Obama is always talking about? He is suggesting that if only we would sit down to coffee or tea with hostile foreign leaders, they would see that we were "nice" and be more than happy to negotiate with us.

Why promote using this approach on hostile regimes such as Iran and North Korea and then ignore using it on Poland or for that matter, Israel?
Lakey
 
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The Anabaptist Jacques said:
The Americcan medical facilities for our wounded soldiers are the best in the world.

Every US war saw a decline in the death to wounded ration. Our guys are airlifted to state of the art medicacl facilities. Especiallly thanks to helicopters.

That is why in the Korean War, which was the first U.S. war with the use of helicopters had a dramatic drop in dead to wounded ratio.

The Soviets were fighting in the 1980s with their tactics and their technology.

We are fighting in the 21st century with our technology and our tactics.

Ever heard of drones?

Besides, the U.S was arming the Afghan insurgents quite heavily with sophisticated weapons (hand-held surface-to-air missiles for example).

Today the Afghans do not have that advantage.

The bottom line, and my point was, that the Soviets fought against insurgents to support the government and the U.S. is fighting against insurgents to support the government.

And both are being held at bay.

The Anabaptist Jacques
Click to expand...

I found a definition for the idiom, "being held at bay" as follows:

To "keep or hold at bay" is a very common English idiom meaning "to keep something or someone away, in check, or under control." Around here,for instance, we spend every winter trying to keep colds and the flu "at bay," and, come April, we begin the annual chore of holding the IRS "at bay."

Just one point, if someone being held at bat invents new effective technology that makes it harder to keep him at bay, then, to some significant degree, wouldn't it be fair to say that he is not being held at bay to the same extent as someone was in the past who did not have the technology? I'm just asking.

However, I have no problem with the point you are making and feel your point is correct and to be honest with you, I did not know very much about the Soviet action in Afghanistan and learned something about it from doing Google searches and reading your comments. Thank you very much for clearing this up.
Lakey
 
Re: And so it goes

When I started reading this thread it was never for the original thread title.
There were some posters I happened to consider bright, informed, and really fun to interact with. Some, if not many, of those fine posters have moved on & no longer post here. A few still do but also post on other threads.

For now, I'm going to migrate off this thread and try to stay away unless I feel I want to throw in my half of 2 cents on some statement or other.

Oh after reading here lately I'm considering starting my very own thread, all jokes - and I'll jump on & off all day long to get the stats up, too !

Most of you I'll see on other threads & don't stay a stranger, PM if the mood strikes you.


The Toad had left the thread.
 
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