Scientology is all bad

[HelluvaHoax!]

Magoo just mentioned on another thread the song 'blinded by the light' ... which is much like being hypnotized (if you don't believe me you can ask any rabbit that has ever been caught in the headlights, assuming you can find one alive).

Most of us were blinded by the light of the promised bridge results.

Sad? (yes).

Embarrassing? (absolutely).

True? (true enough for me).

Dear ITYIWT,

A rabbit caught in the headlights you say?

That is not what is real for me.

I just had a great win in session where my perception increased.

Success Story below....

ML,

Ricky Rabbit​

​

 

[PirateAndBum]

Okay, I was posting my last post while you wrote yours. I think this is a good time then to check out what I was ranting about. LOL.

Let me ask you. What is the full end phenomenon of Scientology?

What special abilities and states have you reached thus far?

Do you know anyone who is Clear or OT? How do you know they attained that?

The full EP of Scio right now? Well, you know there really are probably 2 answers for that. 1 the Co$ EP and 2. the non-Co$ EP.

I believe the outcomes from just doing the "bridge" without all the bullshit you have to endure in the Co$ are probably quite nice. Is that OT, hell no. Clear - well, yes I think it can make clears. Now what is a clear? It certainly is NOT what Hubbard claims in DMSMH, which you so love to use as the criteria. That we all know is total BS. But the state of understanding "I am mocking it up" kinda thing, yup I think that state is achieved. Now what the fuck good is that state? That's a good fucking question cause as far as I've seen it hasn't really done a whole hell of a lot for the person.

The Co$ EP is of course - upset & broke.

However... I do believe that higher spiritual awareness - getting out of the cycle of birth & death, free from compulsive games playing... these are states that can be achieved, not by doing the Bridge, but the tools are there to be able to achieve these states. I am of the opinion though that it could require a tremendous number of hours to get theses states (100,000 hours). OT - moving matter... maybe, but now you are talking even greater investment of time on the order of 200,000 to a million hours of work... So it could very well be a multi-lifetime endeavor. The tools are there to do it. Very few are attempting to go on, but some are. It's certainly an adventure. And the nice thing about it is that it doesn't cost $$$ nor servitude to a cult.

Hubbard theorized that OT was possible, he of course sold it heavily and with the idea that it would be a relatively quick affair. When you look at what actually has to be handled to be able to mess with physical reality in a god-like fashion, I have a feeling your interest in doing so would have long since faded by the time you were able to do so.

The Scientology bridge is a botched project.

 

[PirateAndBum]

That is correct for I would estimate 95% of Scientology. There is a portion of Scientology where people are simply asking/answering questions in a session and talk therapy has merit.

<snip>

They are not even talking about the actual Scientology and they can't or won't tell you what the end result is. And they certainly cannot show or demonstrate any abilities of a Clear or OT. Ask one. LOL.

So they talk in vague ambiguities about "wins" and "case gain".

They won't be accusing me of not having been a Scientologist, doing the OT levels or successfully auditing others--because I have factually done an inordinate amount more training, C/Sing and auditing than they did. So don't worry about them trying to say that you don't know. You do know. Thought you'd like to...um...know. LOL

Nice rant! OK, so I must definitely not be a scio cause I will talk straight about this shit.

Since you did audit and C/s and do the entire bridge, I'd like to just ask you one thing: Did your pc's not get any benefit from doing the lower bridge?

Oh 2 things, where did you audit & C/s was it in a mission, org, or AOSH or AO? Cause ya know it does make a difference in the environment...

 

[PirateAndBum]

I really think that the grades did some good things for me. I felt a whole lot better and happier after completing them. And it wasn't fleeting, I felt great for many years.

 

[PirateAndBum]

Dear ITYIWT,

A rabbit caught in the headlights you say?

That is not what is real for me.

I just had a great win in session where my perception increased.

Success Story below....

ML,

Ricky Rabbit​

​

Ricky then had another win he'd like to report. Seconds later he found himself floating above the road. Wow - exterior with full perception!

Ricky was last seen wizzin off in the direction of Venus...

 

[Veda]

-snip-

But the state of understanding "I am mocking it up" kinda thing, yup I think that state is achieved.

-snip-

This is another discussion, but a person having the cognition that "he's mocking it up," does not necessarily keep something else from "mocking it up" inside his head and to his distress.

The "I realized I'm mocking it up" EP always seemed like the "cheap grace" equivalent of "Clear" to me.

"Clear" is a state and an ability if it's anything. It's not an understanding or a cognition, even though it did become that when Hubbard decided, in 1978, that he wanted lots of Clears to validate himself and the subject.

It's one thing to be "Clear" and then say "I'm mocking it up," and quite another to have a cognition that one is "mocking it up," and then be declared as a "Clear."

IMO, in auditing, a person reaches a point, usually fairly early (months at most), where pretty much everything that's beneficial has been attained. Beyond that, the person - essentially - is "mocking up Hubbard's case," or the "case" Hubbard told the person he has, and then ridding himself of that same (told to him by Hubbard) "case," except that some people never fully rid themselves of Hubbard's "case," or the "case" Hubbard told them they have.

 

[Infinite]

I really think that the grades did some good things for me. I felt a whole lot better and happier after completing them. And it wasn't fleeting, I felt great for many years.

Regular exercise, a vegetarian diet, getting regular hugs, education, and/or satisfying employment will achieve those same results faster, less expensively, more effectively, more enduringly, and in a far, far safer manner.

 

[PirateAndBum]

This is another discussion, but a person having the cognition that "he's mocking it up," does not necessarily keep something else from "mocking it up" inside his head and to his distress.

The "I realized I'm mocking it up" EP always seemed like the "cheap grace" equivalent of "Clear" to me.

"Clear" is a state and an ability if it's anything, it's not an understanding or a cognition, even though it did become that when Hubbard decided, in 1978, that he wanted lots of Clears to validate himself and the subject.

It's one thing to be "Clear" and then say "I'm mocking it up," and quite another to have a cognition that one is "mocking it up," and then be declared as a "Clear."

IMO, in auditing, a person reaches a point, usually fairly early (months at most), where pretty much everything that's beneficial has been attained. Beyond that, the person - essentially - is "mocking up Hubbard's case," or the "case" Hubbard told the person he has, and then ridding himself of that same (told to him by Hubbard) "case," except that many people never fully rid themselves of Hubbard's "case," or the "case" Hubbard told them they have, and they agreed that they had.

So you think there is a state of clear?

I agree that the lower bridge is where one should get off. I also think that there is more that can be done by a person, but it isn't the Hubbard bridge.

I also think that the grades are arbitrary in themselves. Much better to handle want the person wants handled all the way along.

 

[Veda]

So you think there is a state of clear?

-snip-

I think Hubbard messed with a lot of people's heads on this topic.

I also have "made Clears" in auditing, but that was in an environment where "Clear" was a desired state, and, of course, the person had already heard of the "state of Clear," etc.

The most valid Clear, IMO, I ever "made" was using an obscure, discontinued 1950s Identity Listing process&Help process.

If someone decides he's Clear and is certain of it, and there obviously has been a major change for the better, I wouldn't tell him otherwise, but, as I think you noted earlier, what exactly does it mean?

It's something - a variety of somethings - that has a label attached to it: "Clear."

Allow me to leave you with this - break time! - video, and with the chronology of 'Alice in Wonderland' in Scientology:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oRKvpZ7PjE

'Alice in Wonderland' would qualify as an "LRH recommended book."

Here's a chronology of references to 'Alice':

1952: During the 'PDC' lectures, Hubbard speaks positively (a rarity) of a book that he calls 'The Master Therion'. The alternate title for this text is 'Magick in Theory and Practice'. In one section, Crowley presents a long list of books 'For serious study'. One of these is, 'Alice Through the Looking Glass'. It's described as being "Valuable to those who understand the Qabalah."

1955: The first reference to 'Alice in Wonderland' in Hubbard's writings appears in his ("Russian") 'Textbook on Psycho-Politics', a.k.a. the 'Brainwashing Manual' (which denounces Dianetics multiple times), originally written as a black propaganda vehicle for identifying his critics, including psychologists and psychiatrists, with Russian Communism, and then, later, used by him as a kind of blueprint for his Scientology operation. (And if Scientology is anything, it is a 'psychological-political operation', but I don't believe one initiated by any government.)

Says Hubbard - in the guise of an evil anti-Scientology Russian psychiatrist - "There are those who have foolishly embarked upon some spiritual Alice-in-Wonderland voyage into what they call the 'subconscious' or 'unconscious' mind... There is no strength in such an approach."

Next is a quote from the out-of-print compilation book from the 1970s, 'Dianetics Today', which is taken from a recorded lecture (from the late 1950s), where Hubbard says, "Why 'Alice in Wonderland'? Well, that's just because it is, no further significance."

So Hubbard, as usual, was hiding something.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Posted by HelluvaHoax!

Dear ITYIWT,

A rabbit caught in the headlights you say?

That is not what is real for me.

I just had a great win in session where my perception increased.

Success Story below....

ML,

Ricky Rabbit

​

Poor Ricky rabbit, first he was hypnotized and then he was completely flattened by an enormous pair of breasts, could have been worse though, he could have been hypnotized, flattened and conned by an enormous tit called tubs hubbard.

 

[PirateAndBum]

Regular exercise, a vegetarian diet, getting regular hugs, education, and/or satisfying employment will achieve those same results faster, less expensively, more effectively, more enduringly, and in a far, far safer manner.

Well I was getting all that except the veggie diet.

Those things will not do what the grades did for me. You and others can dis the results that are obtained all you want. It isn't going to make what they can do for a person stop doing it. It takes about 3 weeks to do them. They're quite safe.

What isn't safe is getting involved with the Co$.

 

[Infinite]

Well I was getting all that except the veggie diet.

Those things will not do what the grades did for me. You and others can dis the results that are obtained all you want. It isn't going to make what they can do for a person stop doing it. It takes about 3 weeks to do them. They're quite safe.

What isn't safe is getting involved with the Co$.

So, again, we cannot distinguish between correlation and causation. Fair nuff.

Serious question: what quantifiable result(s) did you obtain from the Grades that cannot be found elsewhere and which also cost less, are more effective, last longer, and are far, far safer? I'm not talking about your "space expanding" or "feeling better" - specific result(s), please.

I agree that getting involved with Scientology is very unsafe, but I would suggest that letting someone trained in Scientology techniques loose on your mind with a set of hypno-cans is also a dangerous thing to do. Especially for someone escaping the cult.

 

[PirateAndBum]

So, again, we cannot distinguish between correlation and causation. Fair nuff.

Serious question: what quantifiable result(s) did you obtain from the Grades that cannot be found elsewhere and which also cost less, are more effective, last longer, and are far, far safer? I'm not talking about your "space expanding" or "feeling better" - specific result(s), please.

I agree that getting involved with Scientology is very unsafe, but I would suggest that letting someone trained in Scientology techniques loose on your mind with a set of hypno-cans is also a dangerous thing to do. Especially for someone escaping the cult.

Unfortunately I cannot give you quantifiable results. What I can say about it is what I described at the time and that is if you took a piece of chalk on its side and made a long fat path across a chalkboard and you considered that to be your current life timeline and the chalk was all the unpleasant crap that had happened to you and then you took an eraser and wiped the chalk away, that's what it felt like. That's not quantified at all, but that is the analogy I gave. Don't know if that means anything to you.

I think that for some escaping that it could be helpful to have a session or 2 to strip off the charge and upset that they had, but of course that isn't something you'd sanction. For others I'm sure that the idea of picking up the cans would be like having a vampire approach - they'd be lookin for that cross to hold up...

Often those just getting out are still quite enamored with Hubbard. It takes a while to learn about all the lies.

 

[secretiveoldfag]

P&B said

I think Hubbard had definite mental issues.
I think Hubbard had underlying intentions as can be seen in his admissions.
I think Hubbard ALSO was trying to solve the problems of the mind/spirit.

His claims about the subject were pure blue sky BS. He knew it couldn't do what he was saying. But I think he thought he could eventually get the subject to a point where it would get a person there (OT states)

This was counterbalanced, no overbalanced, by his greed for power & money and those intents expressed in his admissions. This is what makes the subject so damn snarly. Was he or wasn't he... Well he was both.

It's quite clear to me that Hubbard was trying to solve the problems of the mind/spirit SO THAT he could control the minds and spirits of his followers SO THAT his dreams of power and money would be fulfilled. And he cracked it. And they were.

Charles Manson is worth studying since he also cracked it. He could get his followers to do literally anything. He was even better than Hubbard, but even crazier.

Why do you think NOI leader Farrakhan is interested in signing up his followers for courses in Hubbardian mind-fuck? (But I think he has been conned. )

IMO Hubbard was ALL BAD.

 

[secretiveoldfag]

Authorative hypnosis is generally defined as that form of hypnosis where the hypnotist assumes positive authoritative control over the subject.... The clearest and perhaps most familiar demonstration of this is a stage hypnotist show.

And I have read that Hubbard was an outstanding stage hypnotist.

 

[secretiveoldfag]

Frankly Infinite, you know not of what you speak of. You were never a Scio, you have never had nor given an auditing session. Your reliance on 3rd party information to make such sweeping statements of fact do not make them fact. And certainly you are not qualified to make such statements since you have no qualifications for making them. You are of course free to say that auditing turns you into a 3-headed purple toad. That doesn't make it so.

Hang on a minute, Pirate. You might as well say that anyone who has been through Scientology comes out of it with a post or even active hypnotic mind-set. You don't need to join it and leave it to understand that and to find examples in every anti-Sci message board.

We non-Scis serve a purpose on this board as a control group standing outside the topic. Which doesn't mean we are always right but it doesn't mean we can't read and assess what we read.

 

[Infinite]

Unfortunately I cannot give you quantifiable results. What I can say about it is what I described at the time and that is if you took a piece of chalk on its side and made a long fat path across a chalkboard and you considered that to be your current life timeline and the chalk was all the unpleasant crap that had happened to you and then you took an eraser and wiped the chalk away, that's what it felt like. That's not quantified at all, but that is the analogy I gave. Don't know if that means anything to you.

For it to mean anything to me, I would have to dub-in. I am sure you felt better after doing your Grades and, as someone else said here (was it Smilla?) you are the only expert when it comes to your experiences. Thank you for telling me yours.

I think that for some escaping that it could be helpful to have a session or 2 to strip off the charge and upset that they had, but of course that isn't something you'd sanction. For others I'm sure that the idea of picking up the cans would be like having a vampire approach - they'd be lookin for that cross to hold up...

If there was such a thing as "charge" and if Scientology could demonstrate that it could ease upset in a healthy way, and if there was any form of wog-world accountability available, I would sanction such administering in an instant. In the meantime, it still remains that consuming more of what ails you cannot heal you. Ever. By continuing to give validity to imagainary and dangerous concepts, an Auditor keeps the PC unnecessarily trapped in the mind-fuck and prevents healing from the wounds inflicted by Scientology.

Often those just getting out are still quite enamored with Hubbard. It takes a while to learn about all the lies.

I know, I see it every day. Poor sods. The sooner they are disabused of any L Ron Hubbard notions, the better, I say. There's certainly no need to delay the inevitable, but, equally, there's no need to be brutal about it either. It sure is tricky. I've noticed Scientologists are particularly difficult to communicate with about Scientology, a few even decades after they have left the cult. Its as if Scientology has become so much a part of them that any criticism of the subject is received as a criticism of the person. Well, in my experience, that's how they tend to react and out pops Scientology 101 or some other of the myriad "always attack never defend" thought stoppers. Its as if their very survival is dependent on the surivial of what they believe. Often, its the opposite which is the truth. Alas, I seem to lack the finesse others have when it comes to stating the obvious and exposing the idiocies. Oh, to have Professor Hoaxy's ability to tell it like is but to soften the delivery with a gentle humour . . . I can but marvel and hope to learn. I also keep a helpful reminder pinned to the wall over my monitor: ; )

 

[Demented LRH]

Are you thinking of The Anderson Report?

The report is very good, I really like it. Howver, this is not the article I was referring to.

 

[secretiveoldfag]

If you include in your reference to "hypnosis" the reality of self-hypnosis, I think everything you have said is true for the vast majority of Scientology.

Scientolgists don't think of it as self-hypnosis or delusion. They call it something else that is very favorable.

Like "postulating". They first postulate that something is true so that it will become true. That is Hubbard's entire modus operandi.

Or they call it "what is true for you is true" or "what is real for you is real". They think this is a very advanced state of awareness. They have no idea that this is a great way to take a naive person and convince them that their money and time should be given to other Scientologists.

WOW! I think we just about peeled the onion.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Nice rant! OK, so I must definitely not be a scio cause I will talk straight about this shit.

Since you did audit and C/s and do the entire bridge, I'd like to just ask you one thing: Did your pc's not get any benefit from doing the lower bridge?

Oh 2 things, where did you audit & C/s was it in a mission, org, or AOSH or AO? Cause ya know it does make a difference in the environment...

Nice rant! OK, so I must definitely not be a scio cause I will talk straight about this shit.
I really liked your answers a lot. And I don't regard you as a Scientologist. That would be not the same as how a "Scientologist" is defined. But if you use any Scn and enjoy it, cool! But you ain't a "Scientologist" or you would not be here in the first place. Kinda like if I said I was a Christian because I enjoyed going to hear the organ player on Sunday morning as sunlight filters through Baroque stained glass windows. But I didn't actually believe in Christianity.

Since you did audit and C/s and do the entire bridge, I'd like to just ask you one thing: Did your pc's not get any benefit from doing the lower bridge?
Yes, vast amounts of auditing that I gave, CSed and received. And trained hundreds of auditors too. I get benefit from most things i do in life, so all of it could be viewed that way. I was just talking to a girl in China a few minutes ago and I got a lot of benefit from that too. She made me smile and not think about anything except beauty. In my mind there isn't really any difference. Now I will sleep and feel much benefit when I awake. Then I will drink some fresh ground coffee and that will have benefit too. And I will come take a look at ESMB and read some cool posts by SPs and I will get lots of benefit from that too. So, I don't conceive of any way to draw the line about what is benefit or not. If something doesn't give me a benefit I don't do it. Often the benefit is from being able to to help others and be witness and part of their joy.

Oh 2 things, where did you audit & C/s was it in a mission, org, or AOSH or AO? Cause ya know it does make a difference in the environment...
I was at ALL of the ones you listed. Mission, Org, AOSH and AO. Cue Beach Boys song "I Get Around". LOL


[video=youtube;5WP2exZurfc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WP2exZurfc[/video]