Honesty and Dishonesty and Scientology

[RogerB]

I collided with this video today. I couldn't help thinking how much it applies to Scientology, and particularly to Hubbard and is raison d'etre and entire operating basis.

I mean, did he know/realize just how dishonest, fraudulent and destructive he was? Or did he not care . . . .

It is possible he just didn't comprehend his dishonesty and destructiveness

This video addresses these issues . . . .

For you viewing pleasure, I now offer it.

[video=youtube;XBmJay_qdNc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XBmJay_qdNc#![/video]

 

[Captain Koolaid]

This is a good video, entertaining and informative. How does Hubbard fit in? I think that Hubbard did not rationalise. He believed he was destined for greatness (narcicism) and he believed he had the right to do whatever it takes to achieve his goals. When somebody crossed him Hubbard tried to destroy that person, like the steward at the Knickerbocker hotel who had an altercation with him. Hubbard wrote a letter to the FBI claiming that this steward was a Nazi spy and his sister worked for the Gestapo. Like all the letters during the McCarthy era containing lists of "secret communists". Like every sociopath Hubbard did not see people as human beings but as tools he could use and manipulate to serve his ends.

 

[Panda Termint]

Thanks, Roger, I liked it!

 

[SweetnessandLight]

 

[GoNuclear]

I collided with this video today. I couldn't help thinking how much it applies to Scientology, and particularly to Hubbard and is raison d'etre and entire operating basis.

I mean, did he know/realize just how dishonest, fraudulent and destructive he was? Or did he not care . . . .

It is possible he just didn't comprehend his dishonesty and destructiveness

This video addresses these issues . . . .

For you viewing pleasure, I now offer it.

[video=youtube;XBmJay_qdNc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XBmJay_qdNc#![/video]

Roger, your stupid WOG morality is showing. Honesty is totally a WOG concept, along with other aspects of WOG morality. Those of us who are true Homo Novis and well along on the Bridge to Total Freedom have higher concepts, like Truth and Ethics. How do you know something is the Truth? Truth is NEVER entheta. Truth ALWAYS advances the cause of the Church of Scientology. What LRH said was ALWAYS the Truth! What the COB says is ALWAYS the Truth! It's really that simple!

Roger, if you ever come to your senses and stop hanging out with those espees over on ESMB, all you need to do to get back in the good graces of Scientology is to upgrade your IAS status to doofus meritorious maximus. Once done, you will then be able to discuss with a redge how many expensives it will take to get you thru all your false purposes and sec checks.

Pete

 

[AnonyMary]

I collided with this video today. I couldn't help thinking how much it applies to Scientology, and particularly to Hubbard and is raison d'etre and entire operating basis.

I mean, did he know/realize just how dishonest, fraudulent and destructive he was? Or did he not care . . . .

It is possible he just didn't comprehend his dishonesty and destructiveness

This video addresses these issues . . . . (snip)

Boy that was brilliant. Dan Ariely is the kind of thinker we wished Hubbard was when we were drinking the koolaid.

I think Hubbard was dishonest before he began Dianetics and Scientology ( big example is "when Hubbard failed to give any account of the expenditure of Allied Enterprises") and he evolved into being more and more dishonest as a pattern, especially so when he felt threatened or felt he or his vision for his organization was going to be undermined. I think pretty early on he was in the chronic cheater liar category, perhaps without even knowing or caring how he arrived there, continuing to do what worked for self preservation.

I have always felt that he suffered from Narcissism and probably from an early age. Some of the traits of this personality disorder fit in with a chronic cheating and lying. Hubbard probably did these things to perpetuate his distorted version of how he saw the world.

Traits and signs of Narcissism

Thomas suggests that narcissists typically display most, sometimes all, of the following traits:[5]

An obvious self-focus in interpersonal exchanges
Problems in sustaining satisfying relationships
A lack of psychological awareness (see insight in psychology and psychiatry, egosyntonic)
Difficulty with empathy
Problems distinguishing the self from others (see narcissism and boundaries)
Hypersensitivity to any insults or imagined insults (see criticism and narcissists, narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury)
Vulnerability to shame rather than guilt
Haughty body language
Flattery towards people who admire and affirm them (narcissistic supply)
Detesting those who do not admire them (narcissistic abuse)
Using other people without considering the cost of doing so
Pretending to be more important than they really are
Bragging (subtly but persistently) and exaggerating their achievements
Claiming to be an "expert" at many things
Inability to view the world from the perspective of other people
Denial of remorse and gratitude

That ^^^^ is L Ron Hubbard.

 

[scooter]

Love it, Rog

Makes a lot more sense than Hubturd and His endless waffle in lectures.

 

[RogerB]

Roger, your stupid WOG morality is showing. Honesty is totally a WOG concept, along with other aspects of WOG morality. Those of us who are true Homo Novis and well along on the Bridge to Total Freedom have higher concepts, like Truth and Ethics. How do you know something is the Truth? Truth is NEVER entheta. Truth ALWAYS advances the cause of the Church of Scientology. What LRH said was ALWAYS the Truth! What the COB says is ALWAYS the Truth! It's really that simple!

Roger, if you ever come to your senses and stop hanging out with those espees over on ESMB, all you need to do to get back in the good graces of Scientology is to upgrade your IAS status to doofus meritorious maximus. Once done, you will then be able to discuss with a redge how many expensives it will take to get you thru all your false purposes and sec checks.

Pete

Pete,

I'm part way there thanks to your severe reality adjustment imparting post!

I can see my way to clear now . . . do the IAS status to doofus meritorious maximus thingie and clear of the bank (account) I will be.

Such freedom not having to worry about what is in the bank

R

 

[Rene Descartes]

Pete (gonucleur) drives home a good point.

What does honesty have to do with Scientology Ethics?

Rd00

 

[Commander Birdsong]

there just doesn't seem to have been but two opinions of hubbard. the CoS whitewash and the tar and feather version exemplified by this thread. at last we have "the master" the first intelligent examination of a very remarkable and enigmatic man

 

[Smilla]

there just doesn't seem to have been but two opinions of hubbard. the CoS whitewash and the tar and feather version exemplified by this thread. at last we have "the master" the first intelligent examination of a very remarkable and enigmatic man

The only fair and valid assessment of him has to come from the actual facts of his life history and his actions. It's been conclusively proven that he was an inveterate liar, so where would you like to go from there?

 

[Balthasar]

I collided with this video today. I couldn't help thinking how much it applies to Scientology, and particularly to Hubbard and is raison d'etre and entire operating basis.

I mean, did he know/realize just how dishonest, fraudulent and destructive he was? Or did he not care . . . .

It is possible he just didn't comprehend his dishonesty and destructiveness

This video addresses these issues . . . .

--- snipped video for brevity----

You mean dishonest, fraudulent and destructive like the a state benefit thieve?

Or dishonest, fraudulent and destructive (think war) like a Government (insert your country)?.

What scale are we talking about?

 

[Mark A. Baker]

The only fair and valid assessment of him has to come from the actual facts of his life history and his actions. It's been conclusively proven that he was an inveterate liar, so where would you like to go from there?

That is an excellent beginning for a deeper analysis of hubbard, however it is not in itself a sufficiency for a final judgement.

I happened to work for a boat captain many years ago who could put hubbard to shame with regard to the trait of lying. Ed would NEVER tell the truth if a lie would serve. He drove me crazy for two weeks before I figured him out. Finally, I learned to disregard anything he said which wasn't a direct order. It spoiled his game but things thereafter worked out smoothly. He continued to lie and it produced no unnecessary labor or adverse effects for anyone on the boat.

Ed evidently enjoyed lying. Apart from that fault I had utterly no cause for complaint. He was a good skipper and neither abused nor exploited his crew or colleagues in any other way. He was in fact an amusing & gracious individual.

Of course, hubbard wasn't like Ed.


Mark A. Baker

 

[RolandRB]

To understand Hubbard I think you need to study his Magickal Affirmations.

"All men shall be my slaves! All women shall succumb to my charms! All mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why!"

 

[Gottabrain]

To understand Hubbard I think you need to study his Magickal Affirmations.

Yes. Hubbard worked hard to eliminate all concepts of wrongness in following hisself's desires and will and to create an entirely separate persona of self.

All these efforts to relate to Hubbard by taking something small and making it bigger and bigger doesn't work because Hubbard's empathy and compassion were shut off/missing/non-existent. Like DM. They just have/had somewhat different personalities and ways of expressing their narcissistic desires and disdain for others.

We are not and never were in the category of complete empathy and compassion shutoff.