Shooting Stars

[afaceinthecrowd]

You know Face, I really like what you have written on this thread, and while I know you plan to wrap it all up with a coup de grace, I have a request. Of all of the things you and Cowboy posted, I liked the first hand stories the most. The whole POS tale was so illustrative of Hisself.

Do you have any more of those that you can relate? Showing the man in action is priceless, how he deals with others and situations. I was on the edge of my seat throughout the whole POS story - there must be other stories you can recall and relate.

Thanks loads for what you have done!!

Mimsey

Thanks a bunch, Mimsey.

I’ve told a number of El Ron Stories on this Thread and Stories or Narratives about El Ron interacting with others here and elsewhere on ESMB.

In the interests of my anonymity, the stories are somewhat problematic for me. There are a slew of stories that, if I told, would peg me in a heartbeat. POS was something that I selected to go into detail on as, as I have said, I didn’t want the Stars Members to get a “bum rap”, I see it as a “genus” and I knew a lot about from the principle players involved and they had “spilled the beans” to me.

While the Stories are certainly illustrative like nothing else could ever be, if you read all the stuff out there—which I am confident you have—there is a predominant, recurring theme. I have many, many stories I have not, and most probably will never will, post on ESMB. But, quite honestly, they are all pretty much, “Second Verse, Same as the First”.

I’ve got one more that I’m debating whether or not to include in the Shooting Stars Finale. I’ve just got to figure out a way to tell it without “nailing” me and at the same time convey the full essence and have it worth reading.

Now, if I didn’t have my reasons for anonymity and was willing to spend the time and expend the effort—which I’m not—I could certainly go into hundreds of thousands of words of narrative detail about what I saw, what I did and with whom and where, and my “Take” on every last piece of minutia.

For what purpose?

I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in making dough, having my 15 minutes of fame or being a Persona. I am a dinosaur, a relic from the past, a self-indulgent artifact of the "Old Days" that, but for the Grace of God, should not be here—let alone be able to remember or speak of all this. I am shocked, stunned and revolted by what I was a party to fostering. I am an older, disabled man…a “veteran”, a “casualty of war” and at the same time, IMO, a “war criminal”.

All I truly care about re: El Ron, the SO and Scn is to lay down my burden, purge my sole and, most importantly, place down my tiles to the mosaic in a way, as best I can, for whomever may someday find them that will be helpful in putting together their personal picture.

As always Mimsey, I sincerely appreciate your interest, comments and opinions.

Peace.

Face

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Damn, I get sooo frustrated with these typos I don't see but...I'm probably am purging my Soul and my sole.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

...
Now, if I didn’t have my reasons for anonymity and was willing to spend the time and expend the effort—which I’m not—I could certainly go into hundreds of thousands of words of narrative detail about what I saw, what I did and with whom and where, and my “Take” on every last piece of minutia.

For what purpose? ...

Good question. You are a wise man to question the need to devote so much time and effort to this activity, particularly as you have already done so much to shed light on hubbard & the church. Nonetheless, I'd like to suggest to you what has also been suggested to David Mayo.

Like you, although possibly for different reasons, David is in a situation where he has already revealed much and has more in the way of insights which he is not fully free to reveal. David has evidently taken under consideration the suggestion of many of creating for himself a written record of his entire history in the church, although not releasing it to the public at this time.

Please consider keeping such a private notebook of those incidents involving hubbard & the church, yourself, including those incidents which you do not feel comfortable publishing at this time. Modern computers and data storage certainly make such a task relatively simple in terms of the mechanics involved.

I don't mean to suggest you should consider yourself obligated to do any such thing, or somehow become a slave to such an endeavor. There is far more to your life than rehashing the old unpleasantness of 40 years back. But the possibility that at sometime in the future you would be in a position to publish all that you know from your own experience with the church would be a great asset to any future histories of scientology, even if that material is not itself to be publicly released for another 50 years.

Moreover, as you have commented, it is much easier for you to write a little bit of your history at a time rather than attempting to do some sort of massive complete "data dump".

As always, your health and present life are by far more important. No need to waste valuable time doing what does not seem purposeful to yourself. But, it is clear from that which you have revealed already, that you in your recollections are one of the great resources for truth in setting the record straight concerning l. ron hubbard and the history of the church of scientology.

For that reason I do wish to encourage you to continue in some measure the recording of your thoughts and recollections of the time you spent involved with the church, even if you have no present intention of publishing them.

Things change, and in a decade or so your reasons for maintaining your privacy may seem less important to you. Having a previously prepared collection of historical material would be clearly advantageous to you should you change your mind concerning revealing more of your history with scientology.

Besides, as they say in show business: always leave 'em wanting more.

... All I truly care about re: El Ron, the SO and Scn is to lay down my burden, purge my sole and, most importantly, place down my tiles to the mosaic in a way, as best I can, for whomever may someday find them that will be helpful in putting together their personal picture. ...

Have no fear my friend. The information you have provided is more than sufficient for those purposes. Indeed, that data which you have already provided is utterly invaluable to those seeking a more accurate understanding of l. ron hubbard and the early development of the modern Co$. Nor have you any cause for feelings of having burdened others.

Not to make too big a deal about it but you are truly a hero to many and have been a major player in revealing the truth about hubbard and his cult. Thanks for all you've done.


Mark A. Baker

 

[sallydannce]

...

Face,

It seems that just because you personally witnessed these experiences with Ron that you write about, somehow you construe these as "facts".

What's up with all the negativity?

If you've got a bone to pick or obnosed any minor outpoints in LRH's sphere of influence (this sector), how about putting it on the right lines so it can get handled?

Personally, when I run into this kind of negative material (like the time Ron threw my 2D into a chain locker because there was some dust found on a door ledge above his cabin) I just attribute it to confusion blowing off as Ron put order in.

Take a look at the PDC tape where Ron talks about the inverted reverse vectors of flows when wholetrack counter-postulates create randomnity that the being is unwilling to duplicate because the dwindling spiral has collapsed his universe's space into MEST mockups, which acts as an inval of native state after which the automaticity of cause creates a lower harmonic mimicking certainty, naturally making one an effect of their own intentions.

Do you see? It's all rather simple, and so forth.

ML,

hh

ps: you rock, my friend! wish there were more people like you in the world.

Jeez HH you had me going with paras one, two, three and four (being half asleep didn't help).

Then I began reading the para "Take a look at the PDC tape..." and got slapped with a wall of cognitive dissonance, a churning gut, severe dizziness and subsequently dropped the coffee cup I was holding (don't worry, it was sans liquid).

Now I can't stop laughing. Please consider putting health risk warning on your post.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

You know Face, I appreciate that you don't want to be outed, and I feel the same way. Why do I want those psycho OSA idiots in my life? I don't, and I also don't want my name and Mimsey associated on Google either. As my dad would say, if you walk in the swamp, don't cry about getting mud on your boots.

I will have to do a search and find your previous stories, since I haven't been on ESMB all that long, and there are tomes of stuff I haven't read. Anyway, keep on keeping on. Mimsey

 

[auntpat]

Face, I am sitting here feeling honored to know you, your words and to have heard your words. I do not know if you were this brilliant man before your brain surgery. If not you owe your doctors, big time. For you are certainly a brilliant man, today.

Thank you, my friend, for sharing your observations with us. The first hand stories were interesting but I believe your understandings are priceless.

With love, admiration, and gratitude,
Pat

 

[still here]

Dear Face

I read all of this thread this week and I was just so impressed, (and exhausted!!)

Your writing is wonderful, your stories paint such a picture,a dn show true insight and your analyses have been so insightful. You observed Elron and despite still hanging onto the myth yourself were able to see so clearly. You tell your story without bitterness and you tell it so well.

Outstanding! Can't wait for the end - but I also don't want it to come!

Thank you.

Still

 

[Panda Termint]

More awesome Face time! This latest is a great addition to the earlier installments you've posted, Face. I know it has to end sometime but when it does, I'm just gonna start at the beginning again. Thank you, once again, for telling it like it was/is.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Good question. You are a wise man to question the need to devote so much time and effort to this activity, particularly as you have already done so much to shed light on hubbard & the church. Nonetheless, I'd like to suggest to you what has also been suggested to David Mayo.

Like you, although possibly for different reasons, David is in a situation where he has already revealed much and has more in the way of insights which he is not fully free to reveal. David has evidently taken under consideration the suggestion of many of creating for himself a written record of his entire history in the church, although not releasing it to the public at this time.

Please consider keeping such a private notebook of those incidents involving hubbard & the church, yourself, including those incidents which you do not feel comfortable publishing at this time. Modern computers and data storage certainly make such a task relatively simple in terms of the mechanics involved.

I don't mean to suggest you should consider yourself obligated to do any such thing, or somehow become a slave to such an endeavor. There is far more to your life than rehashing the old unpleasantness of 40 years back. But the possibility that at sometime in the future you would be in a position to publish all that you know from your own experience with the church would be a great asset to any future histories of scientology, even if that material is not itself to be publicly released for another 50 years.

Moreover, as you have commented, it is much easier for you to write a little bit of your history at a time rather than attempting to do some sort of massive complete "data dump".

As always, your health and present life are by far more important. No need to waste valuable time doing what does not seem purposeful to yourself. But, it is clear from that which you have revealed already, that you in your recollections are one of the great resources for truth in setting the record straight concerning l. ron hubbard and the history of the church of scientology.

For that reason I do wish to encourage you to continue in some measure the recording of your thoughts and recollections of the time you spent involved with the church, even if you have no present intention of publishing them.

Things change, and in a decade or so your reasons for maintaining your privacy may seem less important to you. Having a previously prepared collection of historical material would be clearly advantageous to you should you change your mind concerning revealing more of your history with scientology.

Besides, as they say in show business: always leave 'em wanting more.




Have no fear my friend. The information you have provided is more than sufficient for those purposes. Indeed, that data which you have already provided is utterly invaluable to those seeking a more accurate understanding of l. ron hubbard and the early development of the modern Co$. Nor have you any cause for feelings of having burdened others.

Not to make too big a deal about it but you are truly a hero to many and have been a major player in revealing the truth about hubbard and his cult. Thanks for all you've done.


Mark A. Baker

Mark,

Thank you so much for taking the time to say all this and say it so well. You make a number of excellent and salient points.

I've written a few other vignettes that Ive passed around "back channel"...nothing earth shattering...and have a few other random notes...again, nothing earth shattering.

Bottom line, I've just plum run out of gas about all this and, honestly, what I have put up on ESMB is all the meat and potatoes to what I've got to say. There are so many others out there that I do hope will either speak out some day or will do as you suggest in your post...Others that were more than a Gump like me, others Like David Mayo and Laurel Watson Sullivan who were the Stars, the brilliant Shooting Stars of the SO, that I am honored to have known and treasure the memory of to this day.

Your words are very kind and, from my Heart, I thank you. However, I don't see myself as a "Hero" in any way. Armstrong, Mayo, Lerma, Emma, Corydon, Prince, Cooper, Erlich, Wollersheim et al are Hero's...I'm not even close to being in their League.

The Cof$, IMO, hasn't seen nuttin yet...They're about to Inherit the Wind. '13 is gonna be baaaad. '13 is gonna start off with some Barn Burner books Published and one of them, from what I've read, could very well be tantamount to William L. Shirer's, Rise and Fall of the Third Reich in regards to Scn. Lawrence Wright's Pulitzer Prize book about Al Qaeda is a staggering, brilliant and gutsy work of Journalism--Researching, Sourcing, Documenting, Writing and Story Telling. The Cof$ has everything to fear right now.

Face

 

[TG1]

Face,

I don't post too much on your thread(s) -- but want to be quiet (for me) and not distract or derail.

But just in case you are about to run off when I'm not looking and get on with living your real life, I want to thank you so very, very much for your superb efforts in sharing your stories and your interpretations of the things you saw.

It's clear you're right -- that 2013 will see more cannonballs slamming into the cult's walls. I hope 2013 is the year those walls come tumbling down. For me, the end game will include the conclusion of that organization, criminal charges brought against its current leaders, mouths agape of the remaining Co$ members, and more rapid onion-peeling by Indies, Zoners and Exes.

But most of all, I hope that you and everyone here and anyone else who's ever been affected by Scientology will get on with their lives -- to look for and find more love, more entertainment, more laughter, more beauty that has absolutely nothing to do with that cult we once spent far too much time on.

Very best to you, Face!

TG1

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Hi Face - what I like about the personal moments you and others have had with Hisself is that one can draw your own conclusions about the man. Showing him in action, reveals a lot more about the man than someone saying he was a crazy ol' som'bitch. That is what I loved about the POS stories - it really showed him for what he was.

You may think this morbid, but you could write a bunch of memoirs as Mark is suggesting, and in your will, order them to be published then. I think they have a lot of value, for the number of people that had face time with the man are few and far between. Without those vignettes, history will be bereft of what the man really was, and a real understanding of who this complex man was will be lost.

My 2 cents.

Mimsey

 

[Dulloldfart]

You may think this morbid, but you could write a bunch of memoirs as Mark is suggesting, and in your will, order them to be published then. I think they have a lot of value, for the number of people that had face time with the man are few and far between. Without those vignettes, history will be bereft of what the man really was, and a real understanding of who this complex man was will be lost.

Yeah. But video them. It's a lot easier than writing. Just make sure the sound is good with no background noise so your words can be made out. The video quality is far less important than the sound in this case. Look at Tatty Balaclava's videos — she does heaps of them for the FZ. Usually the video quality is not bad but the sound often sucks and they can be a pain to listen to.

Paul

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Face, I am sitting here feeling honored to know you, your words and to have heard your words. I do not know if you were this brilliant man before your brain surgery. If not you owe your doctors, big time. For you are certainly a brilliant man, today.

Thank you, my friend, for sharing your observations with us. The first hand stories were interesting but I believe your understandings are priceless.

With love, admiration, and gratitude,
Pat

Dearest Pat,

Au contraire mon cheri, it is I that is honored to know you, your words and to have heard your words.

I do indeed owe my Docs, big time. I don't know what all went on inside there but they seem to be pretty proud of themselves and pleased with the results.

I'm really not all that smart anymore but I do "see" and "feel" things differently in a way that's hard to explain.


Thank you so much for all your kind words, encourgement and love along the way. I know you've walked the walk.

All My Love Always,

Face

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Dear Face

I read all of this thread this week and I was just so impressed, (and exhausted!!)

Your writing is wonderful, your stories paint such a picture,a dn show true insight and your analyses have been so insightful. You observed Elron and despite still hanging onto the myth yourself were able to see so clearly. You tell your story without bitterness and you tell it so well.

Outstanding! Can't wait for the end - but I also don't want it to come!

Thank you.

Still

Dear Still Here,

Thanks a bunch.

I'll bet you're exhausted...took me nearly two years to put it all down and I'm exhausted.

Glad to know you find all this of value to you.

Face

 

[Mark A. Baker]

... Your words are very kind and, from my Heart, I thank you. However, I don't see myself as a "Hero" in any way. Armstrong, Mayo, Lerma, Emma, Corydon, Prince, Cooper, Erlich, Wollersheim et al are Hero's...I'm not even close to being in their League. ...

You are certainly right about those others but on this one, buddy, you are quite wrong about yourself.

Your posts on this board have been heroic and of genuine value to many who if they could would thank you personally for the insights you have provided the world.


Mark A. Baker

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

More awesome Face time! This latest is a great addition to the earlier installments you've posted, Face. I know it has to end sometime but when it does, I'm just gonna start at the beginning again. Thank you, once again, for telling it like it was/is.

Ah Panda,

You've been one my Muses along the way. I always think about you and a couple of other Old Timer Folks and what I think Y'all like to know, what you deserve to know, what you've paid the price for and earned the right to know.

Thanks a whole bunch, Mate!

Face

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Hi Face - what I like about the personal moments you and others have had with Hisself is that one can draw your own conclusions about the man. Showing him in action, reveals a lot more about the man than someone saying he was a crazy ol' som'bitch. That is what I loved about the POS stories - it really showed him for what he was.

You may think this morbid, but you could write a bunch of memoirs as Mark is suggesting, and in your will, order them to be published then. I think they have a lot of value, for the number of people that had face time with the man are few and far between. Without those vignettes, history will be bereft of what the man really was, and a real understanding of who this complex man was will be lost.

My 2 cents.

Mimsey

Well, I'll take that under advisement, Mimsey.

Face

 

[Gib]

Re: Shooting Stars, Part Twenty

Some months back, on a tip from a dear Ex friend, I downloaded and read the correspondence between Robert A. Heinlein and El Ron. Besides the fact that in El
Ron’s own pen it establishes the marital status of Hisself and Sara and the paternity of Alexis, it also, pre DMSMH, foreshadows some of my conclusions above.

I tried to find this on the internet but to no avail. Do you have the link?

I researched Robert A. Heinlein and found he was a good Joe.

 

[Lermanet_com]

Hi Face - what I like about the personal moments you and others have had with Hisself is that one can draw your own conclusions about the man. Showing him in action, reveals a lot more about the man than someone saying he was a crazy ol' som'bitch. That is what I loved about the POS stories - it really showed him for what he was.

You may think this morbid, but you could write a bunch of memoirs as Mark is suggesting, and in your will, order them to be published then. I think they have a lot of value, for the number of people that had face time with the man are few and far between. Without those vignettes, history will be bereft of what the man really was, and a real understanding of who this complex man was will be lost.

My 2 cents.

Mimsey

He is also a man capable of displaying, for entertainment, having a kid screaming in pain, whose hands are holding onto the banister of the staircase, CONVINCED that he is holding onto a red hot iron railing...and he CAN"T LET GO.


He was demonstrating how good he was with hypnosis, and hypnotized this kid...

Doesn't the existing condition of that kid sound much like being in $cientology?

There is too much pain associated with living life without the help of any man intentionally inflicting additional pain upon another, and especially for The Profit!

If secrets are the mortar binding lies as bricks together into prisons for the mind... then Hubbard was our sociopath, a mental version of Hannibal Lechter, and our Jailor.


I'd like to get the rest of them out of that jail.


-------------
In Silence of the Lambs Hannibal Lechter never blinked ONCE.

 

[AnonyMary]

Re: Shooting Stars, Part Twenty

I tried to find this on the internet but to no avail. Do you have the link?

I researched Robert A. Heinlein and found he was a good Joe.

You can buy them here :
http://www.heinleinarchives.net/upload/index.php?_a=viewCat&searchStr=hubbard&Submit=Go