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Ex-member of the CoS- Brian Cox

Commander Birdsong said:
dianetics is not the universal panacea hyped in DMSMH and scientology does not hand over the powers of a comic book superhero
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Not to belabor the point but in this video this Freezone guy, John Rafanello, claims that he transported a car instantly from one side of town to the other. He actually claimed teleportation. SUper hero comic book stuff. Of course no one saw him do it.

As you watch this you realize that he is a great story teller and a passionate creative man and he himself actually believes he did this. I think the same is true of Hubbard.

If you are new to Scientology free zone or coorperate you could spend a lot of time and money trying to teleport cars becasue who knows what magic lies on the OT levels?

I just would not want someone freshly out of the cult to believe that this stuff is actually possible. I should say "has never been demonstrated." I don't know what is possible.

But when I watched this stuff I remember wanting to believe stories like this and that is what made me spend so much money and time trying to get comic book superhero powers and it seems that people in the free zone still believe.
The Magic Thetan - Class 8, OT 8 - John Rafanello
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7crInV-bOM
 
2briancox said:
Well thank you, Idle. Great name by the way.

I agree the Church is a corrupt organization. And feel free to agree with anyone's opinion on the tech that you'd like. It doesn't bother me any. But I have to admit the tech has helped me enormously with many things in life. Now, I'll be clear here, I absolutely know that Ron over- sold most of the gains of Clear and OT. I also know he was no angel. Quite the contrary. He could sell people on quite a bit. And boy did he ever.

But I judge the tech by what it does for me. And I am 100% certain that it has been very helpful. The times I really ran into trouble had nothing to do with tech. They had to do with a sickly money-motivated organization that cared for nothing but their own financial gain.

I'm done with that now, of course. And I'm keeping what I value and throwing the rest in the trash. We each have to be true to what we know. Best of luck. :)
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Why to go 2briancox.

We'll be seeing you.

This place is always open for discussion. :thumbsup:
 
Reasonable said:
Not to belabor the point but in this video this Freezone guy, John Rafanello, claims that he transported a car instantly from one side of town to the other. He actually claimed teleportation. SUper hero comic book stuff. Of course no one saw him do it.

As you watch this you realize that he is a great story teller and a passionate creative man and he himself actually believes he did this. I think the same is true of Hubbard.

If you are new to Scientology free zone or coorperate you could spend a lot of time and money trying to teleport cars becasue who knows what magic lies on the OT levels?

I just would not want someone freshly out of the cult to believe that this stuff is actually possible. I should say "has never been demonstrated." I don't know what is possible.

But when I watched this stuff I remember wanting to believe stories like this and that is what made me spend so much money and time trying to get comic book superhero powers and it seems that people in the free zone still believe.
The Magic Thetan - Class 8, OT 8 - John Rafanello
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7crInV-bOM
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He posted here for a couple weeks, I actually felt bad for the guy, he seemed like a really nice guy, but he's stuck in the Role Playing World of Scientology.

He surrender his identity to a role playing fantasy game and he's stuck there.
 
ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn said:
He posted here for a couple weeks, I actually felt bad for the guy, he seemed like a really nice guy, but he's stuck in the Role Playing World of Scientology.

He surrender his identity to a role playing fantasy game and he's stuck there.
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Jackie Gleason was pretty OT. But he wasn't a scientologists.

I've done, had many OT things happen to me and vice versa. Prior to scientology.

Go figure.

scientologists because of being involved in scientology, why they like to assign cause to scientology as the cause of their OTness. If they only could remember when they weren't scientologists, that they experienced such phenomena. But wait, once you get up to OT8, I thought one had total recall, memory on their whole track release.

When real OT8's talk, behind the scenes, one to another in private:

Yah, I remember when I was a Roman, the guy said he was gonna cut my head off. What happened, well I shit in my pants, but I wasn't wearing pants, just a skirt, so the dump landed on the ground. I said it must have been a prior horse. :melodramatic:
 
Veda said:
I'm glad you were helped enormously by the tech. May I be so bold as to remind you that there is only one you, but lots of other people. Many of those other people had very real experiences with the tech, many were highly trained and audited, and their views on the tech are different from yours.
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That's why I'm not a part of the "we have the only way!" crowd. I've left them far behind.
I should also point out, that this is not my first 10 minutes outside the cult. I've been out for about a year now. I've read plenty. Thanks for your warnings.
 
Reasonable said:
(SNIP) Statistically can you really demonstrate any OT phenomena? (SNIP) Can you demonstrate with regularity any of Hubbard's claims? If not Scientology may still be worth it to you, if so why? I am not condemning you I would really like to know what you actually feel that you get out of Scientology.
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Just curious - does someone HAVE to demonstrate OT phenomena to justify any use of any part of Scientology? If someone gets a feeling of being a little better off by running some grade 0 process, for example, must they defend any of Hubbard's claims?

Given the rather broad agreement here that Hubbard purloined stuff that had some kind of positive effects from hither and yon, isn't it possible that a person might get some benefit from some particular part of Scientology?

Note well, I believe the Corporate element of Scientology is poison, and the Bridge of Total Freedom is anything but that. Still, if the person we are talking to hears our words about the serious dangers of dealing with Scientology, haven't we done our job?

I am reminded of the phrase Auto-da-fé (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-da-fé) One must confess one's sins, or be put to death.

Alternatively, in Japan several hundred years ago, believers of the Christian faith were directed by the authorities to stamp upon certain Christian images to show that they had renounced the beliefs they had held.

Should Mr. Cox be expected to stamp and spit upon the entirety of Scientology's...oh, what's the word....stuff, to be accepted?

I know that I want no one else to be trapped and abused by the Scientology cult. What I am not so sure about is going after someone who said they had some benefit from some part of Scientology.

Speaking of which, Down with Scientology!
 
David C Gibbons said:
Just curious - does someone HAVE to demonstrate OT phenomena to justify any use of any part of Scientology? If someone gets a feeling of being a little better off by running some grade 0 process, for example, must they defend any of Hubbard's claims?

Given the rather broad agreement here that Hubbard purloined stuff that had some kind of positive effects from hither and yon, isn't it possible that a person might get some benefit from some particular part of Scientology?

Note well, I believe the Corporate element of Scientology is poison, and the Bridge of Total Freedom is anything but that. Still, if the person we are talking to hears our words about the serious dangers of dealing with Scientology, haven't we done our job?

I am reminded of the phrase Auto-da-fé (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-da-fé) One must confess one's sins, or be put to death.

Alternatively, in Japan several hundred years ago, believers of the Christian faith were directed by the authorities to stamp upon certain Christian images to show that they had renounced the beliefs they had held.

Should Mr. Cox be expected to stamp and spit upon the entirety of Scientology's...oh, what's the word....stuff, to be accepted?

I know that I want no one else to be trapped and abused by the Scientology cult. What I am not so sure about is going after someone who said they had some benefit from some part of Scientology.

Speaking of which, Down with Scientology!
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I don't think anyone has gone after Brian or put him down for his perspective.
 
I don't think anyone is going after him!

I think folks are excited to get a fresh voice who practices some and want to hear his perspective. At least that's how I feel and how I read everyone else so far on this thread.

Ive seen people go after on this board.. This is not that.. I see zero drama or bad attitudes here.
 
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Anonycat said:
Yes! In my experience, it has only damaged people and whole families. I mean in decades of "real life", but have seen a few in forums, like here in this thread. It's a disgrace to support this horrible cult.
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Well I agree. And that's why I don't.
 
Every once in a while in life, you'll run in to someone who has some understanding. And he feels that he just MUST make sure you have that same understanding. Those people are usually very hard to be around for long.

Well I just want to assure everyone that I won't be one of those guys. You are all free to keep your own understandings.

I'm not here to change anyone's mind. And of course, my mind will be based on my experiences. But thanks for all the interest.

P.S. I'm not looking to be a superman. If it helps it helps and I won't deny it.
 
Boojuum said:
Keep reading the ESMB padawan.

For the record, I had gains from Scientology but I don't believe in a "Bridge", I don't think the engram/secondary model of the mind is accurate, I feel certain that LRH developed a system of therapy based on thready evidence that could make people feel briefly better but not necessarily make them more capable.

I also think that Ron left out some major pieces of life in his philosophy, to wit, the importance of family.

I'm not saying you can't be helped by Scientology. Maybe you can. I would urge you to look at the results NOT obtained by so many people on this board--many who received a great deal of auditing and training. "100% workable"?

The fact that you were out for so long was probably the best thing that could have happened to you.

Good luck on your journey.
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You are absolutely right! The lack of concern for family is disgraceful. The tech is also missing anything about the benefit of charity and humility. Luckily for me, those values come from ME. Not from being given it.

I don't think those values need to be given. But unfortunately there is a corrupt culture in the church that actively fights against those values. And people in typically learn the opposite.
 
2briancox said:
-snip-

As it turns out, I was very fortunate to live in Washington. FreeZone Elma is very close to me. So I started on the Bridge again. And I can finally move! With a great auditor that lives 25 minutes away!

So now my goal is to help that exist for others when they go looking. Just wanted to let everyone know, you are now free to practice Scientology on your own if you'd like. It's safe out here. =)

So if I've known you along our paths, I'd love to hear from you.
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876620-300x225.jpg


Freezone Academy at Elma: http://community.freezone-tech.info/elma/


Oh, OK.

If I had read your initial post more carefully, and did a little googling, I wouldn't have given you those links, such as the article from David Mayo. Silly me.

When you finally reach the top of the Hubbard Chart of Awareness Characteristics&Bridge Grade Chart, feel free to come back and chat.

In the mean time, I hope you find your old friends.
 
David C Gibbons said:
Just curious - does someone HAVE to demonstrate OT phenomena to justify any use of any part of Scientology?
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Just curious - does someone HAVE to demonstrate OT phenomena to justify any use of any part of Scientology?

No but I do think they have to demonstrate OT phenomena if they claim that there is OT phenomena. Especially if they claim that they can standardly get OT phenomena


If someone gets a feeling of being a little better off by running some grade 0 process, for example, must they defend any of Hubbard's claims?

No but the result of running grade zero should be “I feel a little better” Not I can talk to any person on any subject

Isn’t it possible that a person might get some benefit from some particular part of Scientology?

Sure, in fact I am one of those people. I am against the idea that any of the results are standard or can be demonstrated.

If Scientology were advertised in this way I would be OK with it:

Scientology has mental processes that may help some people with some problems to some degree. Out hope is that grade one helps with communication grade 2 with … (and so on). The results will vary greatly from person to person because all of the results are subjective. We hope it helps.

I would be OK with that

Admin tech may be different. If you say I applied the marketing series and I got a bunch of new clients then that can be quantified. But mostly I am talking about auditing.

Still, if the person we are talking to hears our words about the serious dangers of dealing with Scientology, haven't we done our job?

I think that is what we are doing.

Should Mr. Cox be expected to stamp and spit upon the entirety of Scientology's...oh, what's the word....stuff, to be accepted?

No I just think when someone talks of going up “The Bridge” it implies that you should get the products of each step on the bridge. Since these products cannot be shown to be obtainable from an objective stand point then really there is no bridge.

I think I am saying…be careful there is no bridge. There are a bunch of processes that may be helpful, but there is no bridge.

What I am not so sure about is going after someone who said they had some benefit from some part of Scientology.

I don’t think anyone is going after him. This is a board of a bunch of people giving opinions. I was just trying to get him to think this “Do you really expect the results Hubbard claims?”
 
Hi Brian,

Our paths may have crossed when you were in Minnesota. My husband Brad and I were on lines at the Twin Cities org for many years, until we left 3 years ago. I also have many friends in Washington.

Welcome, good to fear from you.

Natalie
 
shanic89 said:
If I may, could I ask you as a practising scientologist. What real life situations has scientology helped you in? What was the situation and what part of the tech helped you? Really I’m interested in how you applied the tech in a situation where it is not another scientologists just agreeing that you handled something, and if you have had repeated success applying the same formula.

Cheers.
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Thanks, great questions!

Some of the perceptions of Scientology come from the cultish behaviors of the Co$. Opinions can't truly be expressed there and so people's responses to things get quite plastic and unreal at times.

But when practiced correctly a person should never be told what happened in their life. And they should always be free to express anything that is real. But that wouldn't be a very controllable scene now would it? So to keep money flowing in its more convenient for DM to "tweak" those rules a bit. =)

So here's a recent experience of mine (doing Grade 1, which addresses a persons ability to help and confront problems). The counseling questions were pretty simple ... "How could you help ###?"... followed by "How could you not help ###?" You basically run those over and over until you find your own truth on that subject (I'm simplifying here for convenience). And I suddenly recalled the time when I had made the decision that that person (not telling who, that's private :) was not worthy of my help. And I was able to let go of a lot of negative emotion tied up in that person.

So since auditing (counseling) my attitude has improved on many aspects of my life... too numerous for all to be listed. But that has seriously improved my happiness permanently.

Now, I know this board is full of a lot of jaded, disillusioned and upset people. And I'm not judging them. Having been involved in the Co$ should probably driven them far worse, given the current culture there. These are just my opinions. But I do think they had had some good experiences too. Why else would they have put up with such nonsense for so long?
 
Reasonable said:
Not to belabor the point but in this video this Freezone guy, John Rafanello, claims that he transported a car instantly from one side of town to the other. He actually claimed teleportation. SUper hero comic book stuff. Of course no one saw him do it.
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Yeah... About some of that wild stuff... Lol

I think people who are not in get the idea that those that are just want to be supermen. And I can see from videos like that how you might get that idea. But I think most are really just looking to improve their lives and relationships.

Personally, I take that with a grain of salt. I think it's probably bring oversold just as Hubbard did. But I don't know. I'm looking for spiritual gain. And talk like that has been prevalent in Buddhist circles for much longer than it has in Scientology. I have no idea if it's true or not. I'm OK whether it is or not. It's not really what I'm looking for.
 
Brian,
that is the most specific answer of a realization through Scn I have ever read..thank you. Similar to a therapy session talking to a psychologist. The difference being that the counselor in your session doesn't have any metal health training, correct? So what if somone comes to the center to get help with their emotional thoughts but needs more than what is prescribed in LRH's drills. Isn't that dangerous? Would you agree that manic depression and bipolar disorder need medical care or can scientology audit it out of a person?

Thank you for sticking around!
 
2briancox said:
-snip-

when [Scientology is] practiced correctly a person should never be told what happened in their life.

-snip-

Now, I know this board is full of a lot of jaded, disillusioned and upset people. And I'm not judging them.

-snip-
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Of course, you are judging them.

And that's OK.

It's pretty normal to spend some time doing Scientology - in the independent field - after having just left the CofS.

However, for the vast majority, it's a transitional phase, and you'll likely discover that over time.

Most people, including even Class XII and former Case Supervisor International, David Mayo, pass through that phase, and come out the other side as Ex-Scientologists.

People grow and Scientology doesn't fit them any more.

It doesn't require being "upset."

So, what you're doing is understandable. :)
 
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