Bloodsucker FSMs

[Helena Handbasket]

I have run across Wendy Ettricks -

I have run into her too. She's a real bitch. I knew her from when she was D of P at COSMONY, and again as a pro FSM at AOLA. She was a pain in the ass on both coasts.

If someone gave me a magic box with a button on it, and I could use it to utterly destroy one (and only one) scientologist of my choice, it would be her.

Helena

 

[AnonyMary]

Pro FSMs.

A subject near and dear to my heart.

I was Sea Org service org staff from the early 80s until the mid 90s. I worked on the Dissem lines and worked closely with both Div 2 and Div 6 staff. I knew all the FSMs mentioned in this thread personally; some of them very well. Ironically, out of all the Pro FSMs, Ty Dillard was probably my favorite. He was a really nice guy, and very grounded if you actually sat down and talked to him. It actually really surprises me, knowing him as I did, that he's still in. He has the brains to know better.

Anyway...

From what I know, the original purpose of FSMs was to get public into Scientology. They would disseminate to them, then route them to a mission or a lower org or a field auditor or whatever. In return, they would get a percentage of what the person paid for services.

This system depended on there actually being a ground level structure. Active field auditors, missions, field groups, Class V orgs delivering service.

Well, as we know, the ground level structure was ripped apart. Missions were decimated, field auditors eliminated, Class V orgs became barely functional.

It became quite obvious that it was a lot more lucrative to hitch yourself to a person who was already a Scientologist and "become his FSM" than it was to get new people in.

First of all, the more fucked up COS got, the harder it was to get people in. It was a lot of freakin' work that may or may not pan out. Second of all, the guys going to the AOs and Flag were going to be actually spending some money. And they were already on board with the game so there wasn't that major hurdle to deal with.

So this entity: the "Professional FSM" came out of this.

These were guys who were generally OT and had some training (some a LOT of training). Though the FSM I/C is technically a Div 6 post, the FSMs pretty much worked with the Div 2 regges. There was this weird symbiosis between the Sea Org regges and these people. They would sit in the reg office for hours every day and plot and plan who they could get money out of.

I don't know whether it's still going on, but in the '80s, during the "roll over" period (this had to do with public borrowing money off of other people's credit cards) the FSMs would work out who could borrow off of whose credit cards. Often Public A borrowed money/credit card credit from Public B, and they didn't even know each other. The FSM brokered the deal and picked up the commission.

Pro FSMs, like field auditors, mission holders and those outside the Sea Org box, had a volatile relationship with Scientology management. I saw missions come in to the org to "put ethics in" on the FSMs. They would scurry away like roaches when these people in Class As ordered them in for sec checks. The GI would crash. Another mission would come in to "get the FSMs productive". They would be lured in; their asses would get kissed; it was all good again. Back and forth.

The bottom line: these guys represent the cannibalization of existing Scientology public because there are no new Scientology public.

And this was the 80s.

You can only imagine how much worse it is now.

Excellent comment! I was a raw public FMS during the years I was not on staff. I only brought in new people, who I would reg up the bridge. I brought many people in only to have quite a few taken from me by one of the many Pro FSMs that hung out with the Flag Reg types. Literally stealing commissions due me. It finally got to forwarning my selectees to beware of these people. These vultures would tie upo my time with me having to write up KRs and have chaplain sessions to get the money and it got to the point where I swore I would never send anyone to Flag, lol. It was all so intense for me. I really believed in the whole idea of dissemination, driving people into the orgs, selling DMSMH... thought I was helping clear the planet, I really believed in KSW. I made enemies but I knew policy and I persevered. Things got pretty bad by late 80's - early 90s in orgs across the USA. Eventually I stopped when I saw what was going on with management in not responding to problems in the orgs I sent people to. Financial irregularities as a general rule. Out tech in course room with quickie attests. Staff with no pay, undermanned orgs, money going to management and bills not being paid. Bad regs... No tech training being done resulting in less tech staff. Staff not being trained on their jobs or crammed because there would be only 1 or 2 people if any in Qual and that person was usually calling people in for DOP interviews more than once or twice because the whole purpose was to tag with the reg using tech estimates to get money in the orgs. Scientology stat push stuff.

It just was not worth bringing in new people to only have to deal with constant problems with the orgs and FSM's stealing selectees in the orgs.

What a relief it was to me the day I realized that it was all a bunch of baloney!

 

[ThetanExterior]

As a member of public I was always being made aware of KSW Series 1 which says you can't be half in and half out of Scientology and that "you are here on the same terms as the rest of us, win or die in the attempt.".

Therefore, if a member of public refuses to join staff they are required to be a Field Staff Member and get other people into Scientology.

In my 15+ years as a public Scientologist I brought zero people into Scientology and made zero money in commissions.

(applause) Thank You.

 

[Enthetan]

what I meant was, after Rainman, after Born on the Fourth of July, who, decided, and / or who played the role of Tesio to the family

who threw her under the bus?

why?

money?

purity of evil?

control?

who went along with the plan?

You're not looking at the culture correctly. At the top, there is no loyalty, no fairness, and no sense of obligation over past contributions. There is only "What can she do for me TODAY, and what is she likely to do for me NEXT WEEK?"

Research some older threads about what happens when Sea Org members who spent their whole lives contributing to Scn, become too old to work any more.

The moment somebody high up (most likely DM) decided that somebody else would be a better "handler" for Cruise, Mimi was out. No hard feelings, it's just business.

ADDING: Considering that Mimi's dad was declared during the Mission Holders purge of the early 1980's, and that he later got into the Free Zone movement, it's not surprising that the hierarchy might consider her too "high risk" to be entrusted with a high-value asset like Cruise.

 

[Enthetan]

Hi Cognited,

Even though I'm pretty new here myself, I wanted to welcome you. I am a "Never In" and so are some others here. I am still learning the $cientologyspeak, so I am kind of wondering what "having one foot in and the other out" means.

Is this the same as "flying under the radar"? Which I have taken to mean that someone no longer believes the bullshyte and is not about to purchase more courses or donate more money but they are not making any public statements to ANYONE about this.

If one is a public scientologist, how long can one get by without taking a class, attending an event, donating any money? Do the powers that be eventually figure it out? Then what happens?

Oh, and I'll take anybody's answers on this. Thanks.

There are various types and stages of "half in".

For some years, I was a "submarine Scientologist": choosing to live far enough away from the nearest org that showing up for events was "too much of a drive". When I had enough money for a service, I would take periscope readings of the scene, surface, take my service, and then dive under the surface and disappear. Of course, if you're at the point where this sort of thing is desirable, then you're already half-out.

If you are not making much money, and ineligible for staff for some reason, then you could be tolerated as a hanger-on, occasionally taking Div-6 courses. I've known a few like that.

If the reges smelled money on you, though, and you were not willing to buy major services, then you were likely to be sent to Ethics to be "sorted out".

 

[Enthetan]

Excellent comment! I was a raw public FMS during the years I was not on staff. I only brought in new people, who I would reg up the bridge. I brought many people in only to have quite a few taken from me by one of the many Pro FSMs that hung out with the Flag Reg types. Literally stealing commissions due me. It finally got to forwarning my selectees to beware of these people. These vultures would tie upo my time with me having to write up KRs and have chaplain sessions to get the money and it got to the point where I swore I would never send anyone to Flag, lol. It was all so intense for me. I really believed in the whole idea of dissemination, driving people into the orgs, selling DMSMH... thought I was helping clear the planet, I really believed in KSW. I made enemies but I knew policy and I persevered. Things got pretty bad by late 80's - early 90s in orgs across the USA. Eventually I stopped when I saw what was going on with management in not responding to problems in the orgs I sent people to. Financial irregularities as a general rule. Out tech in course room with quickie attests. Staff with no pay, undermanned orgs, money going to management and bills not being paid. Bad regs... No tech training being done resulting in less tech staff. Staff not being trained on their jobs or crammed because there would be only 1 or 2 people if any in Qual and that person was usually calling people in for DOP interviews more than once or twice because the whole purpose was to tag with the reg using tech estimates to get money in the orgs. Scientology stat push stuff.

It just was not worth bringing in new people to only have to deal with constant problems with the orgs and FSM's stealing selectees in the orgs.

What a relief it was to me the day I realized that it was all a bunch of baloney!

It's all about the money. Reges get a percentage of sales into their pockets (I think it was 2% or so, not sure of the current scene). FSMs get a bigger percentage.

It is in the reges interest to keep high-producing FSMs happy, as they directly and immediately affect the reg stats.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

There are various types and stages of "half in".

For some years, I was a "submarine Scientologist": choosing to live far enough away from the nearest org that showing up for events was "too much of a drive". When I had enough money for a service, I would take periscope readings of the scene, surface, take my service, and then dive under the surface and disappear. Of course, if you're at the point where this sort of thing is desirable, then you're already half-out.

If you are not making much money, and ineligible for staff for some reason, then you could be tolerated as a hanger-on, occasionally taking Div-6 courses. I've known a few like that.

If the reges smelled money on you, though, and you were not willing to buy major services, then you were likely to be sent to Ethics to be "sorted out".

I must say I noticed many public and staff that managed to avoid trouble. They were not worth bothering with but kept their heads down. Sometimes they were staff who blew, but sometimes stayed in good standing and were never declared while someone else had the golden rod for exactly the same thing. I never knew if it was a lottery or just that some people seemed invisible. Some people just managed to say no to reg or recruiter in such a way that the 'no' was accepted and some people just got frog marched to ethics.

 

[ThetanExterior]

I must say I noticed many public and staff that managed to avoid trouble. They were not worth bothering with but kept their heads down. Sometimes they were staff who blew, but sometimes stayed in good standing and were never declared while someone else had the golden rod for exactly the same thing. I never knew if it was a lottery or just that some people seemed invisible. Some people just managed to say no to reg or recruiter in such a way that the 'no' was accepted and some people just got frog marched to ethics.

I once knew a staff member who blew from the org and took some org money with her. I asked why she hadn't been Declared and I was told it wasn't worth the hassle.

At the other end of the scale I knew a member pf public who was told that if they didn't do what a senior Sea Org member said they would be Declared. They asked: "On what charge?" and the Sea Org Member said: "I'll make one up.". The person didn't comply so they were Declared on a trumped-up charge. Many years later they managed to get a Comm EV and the Declare was lifted. The Sea Org member was the Master At Arms (in charge of Ethics) at AOSH UK.

Just some more tales from the crazy world of Scientology.

 

[Lulu Belle]

It's all about the money. Reges get a percentage of sales into their pockets (I think it was 2% or so, not sure of the current scene). FSMs get a bigger percentage.

It is in the reges interest to keep high-producing FSMs happy, as they directly and immediately affect the reg stats.

Reg commissions went in and out. There was a policy that outlined commission systems for regges. I believe it gave a choice in what commission system was used. I think there was also a choice to not pay them at all.

From what I remember, most of the time regges (in my org, anyway) didn't receive direct commissions off of services. They made book commissions, but that was a lot of money, especially for a Sea Org member.

FSM commissions were 10% for processing and 15% for training, IIRC.

Where the FSMs used to make a shitload of money was from selling their training awards.

It used to be that if an FSM got a person to arrive for service he received a percentage of the amount that the person was debited for service in "training awards". This was an amount that could be used for training.

The reality, however, is that most of these FSMs were already at least OT VII and Class VIII. They weren't going to get any training at these orgs. So, they would sell them to their selectees. I don't know what most of the deals were, but I'm sure they used it as a bargaining chip to get them to pay. "If you buy six intensives and OT I through III I'll give you enough training awards to cover Solo I and II." Or they would sell them at a lower rate than what the org was charging for the service. There was a telex from LRH that said it was OK for an FSM to sell his training awards as long as it didn't undercut the org rates, but I don't believe for a minute this was followed if it meant a fat GI cycle and money in the FSM's pocket.

The training awards thing really starved orgs like ASHO whose major services were training. I remember there was a survey done (I think it was in the early 90s) where something like only 3% of the people on the Briefing Course had actually paid the org in full for the course. The rest were there on FSM training awards or some other kind of award "deal".

I have heard that selling training awards was cancelled (this happened after I left). EDIT: I think it actually happened when I was still there. 1995 maybe?

I've also heard Service Completion Awards were cancelled.

Staff up the Bridge Awards were cancelled in the early 90s, too, IIRC.

It wouldn't surprise me if other awards programs were cancelled too. Can staff still receive book commissions? Does anyone know?

 

[Lulu Belle]

I once knew a staff member who blew from the org and took some org money with her. I asked why she hadn't been Declared and I was told it wasn't worth the hassle.

I've often suspected that the reason there isn't a lot of goldenrod produced out of the orgs any more is that there isn't anyone to do the admin. It's a lot of work to put together a submission to declare someone. And there has to be people for it to go through to approve it.

I bet COS doesn't even bother any more. It's just understood if you're not 100% with the program that you are an SP.

Much less paperwork.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

I once knew a staff member who blew from the org and took some org money with her. I asked why she hadn't been Declared and I was told it wasn't worth the hassle.

At the other end of the scale I knew a member pf public who was told that if they didn't do what a senior Sea Org member said they would be Declared. They asked: "On what charge?" and the Sea Org Member said: "I'll make one up.". The person didn't comply so they were Declared on a trumped-up charge. Many years later they managed to get a Comm EV and the Declare was lifted. The Sea Org member was the Master At Arms (in charge of Ethics) at AOSH UK.

Just some more tales from the crazy world of Scientology.

Was that Ivis?

 

[ThetanExterior]

Was that Ivis?

Nope, never heard of Ivis.

That was just a part of a crazy cycle but I don't want to derail this thread by going into the full details.

 

[Enthetan]

I must say I noticed many public and staff that managed to avoid trouble. They were not worth bothering with but kept their heads down. Sometimes they were staff who blew, but sometimes stayed in good standing and were never declared while someone else had the golden rod for exactly the same thing. I never knew if it was a lottery or just that some people seemed invisible. Some people just managed to say no to reg or recruiter in such a way that the 'no' was accepted and some people just got frog marched to ethics.

Some of it depends on how well thought of they were to the "powers that be". They might think that there's some hope of the person coming back someday.

My opinion is that you get declared if either (A) they think it will put the person into desperate propitiation to be forgiven, or (B) they want the person gone, and not contaminating the staff and field with his attitude.

There's also the factor of how popular you might be. If they declare somebody who a sizable number of people think is a good guy, then that lessens the authority of Management.

 

[Lulu Belle]

My opinion is that you get declared if either (A) they think it will put the person into desperate propitiation to be forgiven, or (B) they want the person gone, and not contaminating the staff and field with his attitude.

In my experience, Scientology justice is based totally on what is going on at the moment. Some senior person gets pissed off at someone, that person gets declared. DM decides someone is the "why" for something, he gets nuked. A person gets kicked out of an area and declared. It's decided they need him back so they un-declare him.

It's completely capricious and based on nothing else than what is going on at the moment, what the flavor-of-the-month "why" is at the time and the feelings of who is running things.

 

[TG1]

As a member of public I was always being made aware of KSW Series 1 which says you can't be half in and half out of Scientology and that "you are here on the same terms as the rest of us, win or die in the attempt.".

Therefore, if a member of public refuses to join staff they are required to be a Field Staff Member and get other people into Scientology.

In my 15+ years as a public Scientologist I brought zero people into Scientology and made zero money in commissions.

(applause) Thank You.

Ditto. I sucked at Scientology.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Reg commissions went in and out. There was a policy that outlined commission systems for regges. I believe it gave a choice in what commission system was used. I think there was also a choice to not pay them at all.

From what I remember, most of the time regges (in my org, anyway) didn't receive direct commissions off of services. They made book commissions, but that was a lot of money, especially for a Sea Org member.

FSM commissions were 10% for processing and 15% for training, IIRC.

Where the FSMs used to make a shitload of money was from selling their training awards.

It used to be that if an FSM got a person to arrive for service he received a percentage of the amount that the person was debited for service in "training awards". This was an amount that could be used for training.

The reality, however, is that most of these FSMs were already at least OT VII and Class VIII. They weren't going to get any training at these orgs. So, they would sell them to their selectees. I don't know what most of the deals were, but I'm sure they used it as a bargaining chip to get them to pay. "If you buy six intensives and OT I through III I'll give you enough training awards to cover Solo I and II." Or they would sell them at a lower rate than what the org was charging for the service. There was a telex from LRH that said it was OK for an FSM to sell his training awards as long as it didn't undercut the org rates, but I don't believe for a minute this was followed if it meant a fat GI cycle and money in the FSM's pocket.

The training awards thing really starved orgs like ASHO whose major services were training. I remember there was a survey done (I think it was in the early 90s) where something like only 3% of the people on the Briefing Course had actually paid the org in full for the course. The rest were there on FSM training awards or some other kind of award "deal".

I have heard that selling training awards was cancelled (this happened after I left). I've also heard Service Completion Awards were cancelled.

It wouldn't surprise me if other awards programs were cancelled too. Can staff still receive book commissions? Does anyone know?

OMG - commissions. The darkest underbelly of scientology and money.

One of the first instances of reg commissions I saw was on the Flag World Tour. The FOLOs used to get a percentage of the GI the tour regged if they helped out. FSCs got a commission as well. Then there was just a general 5% "reg commission" which was used to reward FSMs who helped reg other FSM's selectees - bearingin mind that an FSM did not have to reg the selectee - merely "select" them which used to drive people like Barry Klein nuts.

Then there would be the ever present witch hunts when the GI went down and he "greed" of those same regges would be dragged around as the "bloody shirt". And so it went.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Was that Ivis?

or Don Larsen?

 

[Mick Wenlock]

In my experience, Scientology justice is based totally on what is going on at the moment. Some senior person gets pissed off at someone, that person gets declared. DM decides someone is the "why" for something, he gets nuked. A person gets kicked out of an area and declared. It's decided they need him back so they un-declare him.

It's completely capricious and based on nothing else than what is going on at the moment, what the flavor-of-the-month "why" is at the time and the feelings of who is running things.

One of things I came out of the SO and Scientology with is a die hard respect for "The Rule of Law"

 

[Lulu Belle]

OMG - commissions. The darkest underbelly of scientology and money.

You got that right.

One of the first instances of reg commissions I saw was on the Flag World Tour. The FOLOs used to get a percentage of the GI the tour regged if they helped out. FSCs got a commission as well. Then there was just a general 5% "reg commission" which was used to reward FSMs who helped reg other FSM's selectees - bearingin mind that an FSM did not have to reg the selectee - merely "select" them which used to drive people like Barry Klein nuts.

Yeah, I kind of vaguely remember this weird FSM commission system. Well, these FSMs used to fight over these commissions and who was the one who actually "selected" the public like a pack of hounds.

Then there would be the ever present witch hunts when the GI went down and he "greed" of those same regges would be dragged around as the "bloody shirt". And so it went.

That's kind of what I was referring to in my earlier post about FSMs. Half the time they were in management's crosshairs, the other half they were being wooed.

The reality is that the church hates it when any individual is making money off of Scientology. This includes field auditors, FSMs, mission holders, and anyone else who gets a dime to call their own from "the tech".

Problem is, the way things wound up being structured when the lower orgs and missions were decimated, the Sea Org orgs can't actually make any money without these FSMs.

So it would pendulum swing back and forth from "hatred and resentment" to "desperate need".

 

[La La Lou Lou]

You got that right.




Yeah, I kind of vaguely remember this weird FSM commission system. Well, these FSMs used to fight over these commissions and who was the one who actually "selected" the public like a pack of hounds.




That's kind of what I was referring to in my earlier post about FSMs. Half the time they were in management's crosshairs, the other half they were being wooed.

The reality is that the church hates it when any individual is making money off of Scientology. This includes field auditors, FSMs, mission holders, and anyone else who gets a dime to call their own from "the tech".

Problem is, the way things wound up being structured when the lower orgs and missions were decimated, the Sea Org orgs can't actually make any money without these FSMs.

So it would pendulum swing back and forth from "hatred and resentment" to "desperate need".

There was a feeling of jealous resentment from the rank and file towards the good reges who rolled up in cars, who ate real food and could pay for their services, they usually could afford to get their hair done professionally and even afford soap and shampoo, untold luxury. You also knew that if a non reg sold a book package to someone there would be extreme pressure to sell another the next week and so on, best not to.