Thomas Jefferson Quotes

[He-man]

Septic.
Etymology: You don't want to know!

I'm not a yankee Strativarius.

 

[strativarius]

I'm not a yankee Strativarius.

Well shhh... then!

 

[Helena Handbasket]

No Helena, you mean poms. A 'pomme' is French for 'apple'. I don't mind being slagged off, but I object to being called a fruit!

Well, what do you expect from a colonist?


Helena

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

I didn't get to read the whole thread, but here are my thoughts on Jefferson and slavery and how I am just as bad morally as he was.

Jefferson, in my opinion, should not be judged by today's standard.

But he should be judged by his contemporaries.

He was a brilliant man; possibly one of the most brilliant men in history.

He did work through the legal system as best he could to restrict slavery.

But he still owned slaves.

He could have easily sold his estate and moved up north; but he didn't because he preferred his life style.

He was a brilliant man who had the luxury of time to study the subjects he wished.

But it was the fact that he owned, bought, and sold slaves that gave him that luxury and life-style.

Because of his contribution to the advancement of the enlightenment to mankind, and his words I can forgive Jefferson for his slavery; but not forget about it.

There is ample evidence that the moral crisis troubled him deeply. Some believe that the reason he stayed in Paris so long was because he couldn't face the moral dilemma.

I look at his time and his beliefs and see that it was a moral dilemma for the man; he clearly knew it was wrong yet he preferred the benefit it gave him.

But I also have moral dilemmas that I do not resolve simply because I prefer the benefit it gives me too.

I know that pollution is slowly killing life on this planet---yet I drive a car.

I abhor slave labor of children---yet I buy things at Walmart because it is cheaper.

I am sick to death of the inhumane treatment of chickens by large chicken farms---yet I love my fried chicken (I am not kidding here).

There are many, many benefits and luxuries in this country that I enjoy without any regard for the consequences or victims, and there are victims, in the production of the luxury.

It is a mistake, I think, to believe that the good things we have in the world today are solely the result of good things done.

The good things in America today are a result of the good and the bad---we slaughter the Indians, we had slavery (long after the Europeans abolished it), we exploited immigrant labor, and we've bombed many countries to protect our economic empire---the empire that enables me to live such a leisurely life.

The same with Australia, Great Britain, Europe, and the rest of the world too.

I'm thankful that Jefferson existed; I wish slavery hadn't.

We have lots of knowledge, lots of culture, and we try to understand things and other people as best we can.

But if we are to progress as a human race, we need to add wisdom to our knowledge, civility to our culture, and forgiveness to our understanding.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[JustSheila]

TAJ, you just knocked it out of the park.

You have no idea how much I've missed you here. Thanks for taking the time to write this.

(Really, you should submit that to Time Magazine or something for Independence Day 2015. )

THAT is writing, philosophy and art. You're a gem.
moooooore please, on Thomas Jefferson being judged by his contemporaries which would align with his own personal moral code as well...

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

TAJ, you just knocked it out of the park.

You have no idea how much I've missed you here. Thanks for taking the time to write this.

(Really, you should submit that to Time Magazine or something for Independence Day 2015. )

THAT is writing, philosophy and art. You're a gem.
moooooore please, on Thomas Jefferson being judged by his contemporaries which would align with his own personal moral code as well...

Thanks.

As far as Jefferson's contemporaries some criticized his active buying and selling slaves.

Yes he took care of them because they were his important property (like I take care of my car).

But two of the most anti-slavery men, who were in my opinion more vital to the American revolution than even Jefferson was, were John Adams and Benjamin Franklin.

Adams, who was openly opposed to slavery probably more than any of the Founders was a close, dear friend of Jefferson.

Franklin, who I believed helped form the first abolitionist society in America, was the man that Jefferson admired the most.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Purple Rain]

And were his slaves not also his contemporaries? They were, after all, people who lived at the same time. Or the Cherokee on the Trail of Tears? I'm sure they judged him not too fondly. To assume that his contemporaries were only the European Americans is part of the legacy of that whole way of thinking.

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

And were his slaves not also his contemporaries? They were, after all, people who lived at the same time. Or the Cherokee on the Trail of Tears? I'm sure they judged him not too fondly. To assume that his contemporaries were only the European Americans is part of the legacy of that whole way of thinking.

Good point. I should have said his peers.

But, would you prefer that Jefferson never existed?

I believe that the world and many millions are much better off because of him.

It is a discredit to humanity to only see the bad and use it to negate the good.

With regards to Jefferson and the slavery of the South, he was not an abnormal man in a normal situation; he was a normal man in an abnormal situation.

(like most of us)

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Good point. I should have said his peers.

But, would you prefer that Jefferson never existed?

I believe that the world and many millions are much better off because of him.

It is a discredit to humanity to only see the bad and use it to negate the good.

With regards to Jefferson and the slavery of the South, he was not an abnormal man in a normal situation; he was a normal man in an abnormal situation.

(like most of us)

The Anabaptist Jacques

Brilliant.

 

[Purple Rain]

Good point. I should have said his peers.

But, would you prefer that Jefferson never existed?

I believe that the world and many millions are much better off because of him.

It is a discredit to humanity to only see the bad and use it to negate the good.

With regards to Jefferson and the slavery of the South, he was not an abnormal man in a normal situation; he was a normal man in an abnormal situation.

(like most of us)

The Anabaptist Jacques

If all men are created equal then who are his peers?

 

[Purple Rain]

Good point. I should have said his peers.

But, would you prefer that Jefferson never existed?

I believe that the world and many millions are much better off because of him.

It is a discredit to humanity to only see the bad and use it to negate the good.

With regards to Jefferson and the slavery of the South, he was not an abnormal man in a normal situation; he was a normal man in an abnormal situation.

(like most of us)

The Anabaptist Jacques

I wouldn't prefer that he never existed. But his professions are hollow to me because of his actions. I had to stifle a laugh with some of the quotes that were being posted. It was so ironic. I couldn't believe that others couldn't see the irony.

I think he did a lot of good and a lot of bad. I'm sure there are a lot of Cherokee that wish he never existed. The main good I think he did was to inspire Frederick Douglass.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

TAJ,

I gotta go back to bed.

So glad you are here with Us again.

You've been missed.

Face

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

If all men are created equal then who are his peers?

Look up the word peers.

If peers meant all men then it is a redundant term.

But what is your point.

I sense your rage at the progress of humanity.

But it is very likely that if it was not for Jefferson and his "peers" you'd be a subject of some King or Kaiser or Tzar or Sultan.

And because of the subsequent advances by a nation of free conscience you and your children didn't die at childbirth.


The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

TAJ,

I gotta go back to bed.

So glad you are here with Us again.

You've been missed.

Face

Thanks.

But it's just until the "roids" wear off.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

I wouldn't prefer that he never existed. But his professions are hollow to me because of his actions. I had to stifle a laugh with some of the quotes that were being posted. It was so ironic. I couldn't believe that others couldn't see the irony.

I think he did a lot of good and a lot of bad. I'm sure there are a lot of Cherokee that wish he never existed. The main good I think he did was to inspire Frederick Douglass.

Actually, I was going to correct you on this before. But Jefferson was one of the only Presidents that honored the Indian Treaties.

The Trail of Tears happen about 20+ years after he was president and he was already dead.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[JustSheila]

TAJ, I've got to go, too. Please take it easy, enjoy yourself and don't overdo it. Would love to see you back soon!

 

[Purple Rain]

Look up the word peers.

If peers meant all men then it is a redundant term.

But what is your point.

I sense your rage at the progress of humanity.

But it is very likely that if it was not for Jefferson and his "peers" you'd be a subject of some King or Kaiser or Tzar or Sultan.

And because of the subsequent advances by a nation of free conscience you and your children didn't die at childbirth.


The Anabaptist Jacques

I don't have any rage at the progress of humanity, so whatever you are sensing is a creation of your own mind. You also don't know anything about my childbirth. I am not saying anything against your nation.

 

[Purple Rain]

Actually, I was going to correct you on this before. But Jefferson was one of the only Presidents that honored the Indian Treaties.

The Trail of Tears happen about 20+ years after he was president and he was already dead.

The Anabaptist Jacques

Okay, he just conceived the idea. He didn't actually execute it.

 

[Purple Rain]

peer[SUP]2[/SUP]
pi(ə)r/
noun
plural noun: peers

• 1.
  a member of the nobility in Britain or Ireland, comprising the ranks of duke, marquess, earl, viscount, and baron.
  

  synonyms:

  aristocrat, lord, lady, peer of the realm, peeress, noble, nobleman,noblewoman, titled man/woman, patrician; More

• 2.
  a person of the same age, status, or ability as another specified person.
  "he has incurred much criticism from his academic peers"
  

  synonyms:

  equal, coequal, fellow, confrere; More

verb archaic

3rd person present: peers

• 1.
  make or become equal with or of the same rank.

 

[JustSheila]

Really TAJ, if you've seen how this thread has gone, it may be a good time to disengage right about,,,,,


NOW.

*remember what Jefferson said about these kind of debates...