Does Scientology create susceptibility to stress?

[Mimsey Borogrove]

My question re: scientology creating susceptibility to stress stems from a recent situation with a Scientologist client I have - Instead of recognizing a situation and confronting his clients with accurate information, he is bent on keeping up appearances, and pushing forward despite issues that need to be dealt with. One would think he would get honest with his clients and say "gee, I am sorry, but a situation has come up that we need to deal with." Instead he appears stressed out, is trying to get me to alter my position, because of promises he's made to his clients that are now, in need of revision.

While I can see he has made these promises, and he wants to keep them and keep up appearances, and move the job along, it is obvious he's getting stressed out.

In Scientology there is all of this - quantity is senior to quality, it has to be done by Thursday at two, the supreme test is to make it go right, no back flash, tell them an acceptable truth, keep your attention on the target, not the stops, which in general, these come across as stress producing viewpoints - I wonder if he is a product of these beliefs, attitudes engendered by scientology that create stress. (Which only auditing and application of more stress producing policies will cure.)

I know when I was on 7, I was very stressed if things went wrong - I reacted very badly - screaming and yelling (and I am still a bit of a hot head though not as bad as I was) and perhaps that is the key - When things go wrong. Your ( you the OT, the Homo Novis, the game player, not the piece, the person who is supposed to be cause over mest) ) mockup is stopped or changed and you react badly against it. What do you think? Is it Scientology - or does everybody react badly when thwarted?

Mimsey

 

[BunnySkull]

My question re: scientology creating susceptibility to stress stems from a recent situation with a Scientologist client I have - Instead of recognizing a situation and confronting his clients with accurate information, he is bent on keeping up appearances, and pushing forward despite issues that need to be dealt with. One would think he would get honest with his clients and say "gee, I am sorry, but a situation has come up that we need to deal with." Instead he appears stressed out, is trying to get me to alter my position, because of promises he's made to his clients that are now, in need of revision.

While I can see he has made these promises, and he wants to keep them and keep up appearances, and move the job along, it is obvious he's getting stressed out.

In Scientology there is all of this - quantity is senior to quality, it has to be done by Thursday at two, the supreme test is to make it go right, no back flash, tell them an acceptable truth, keep your attention on the target, not the stops, which in general, these come across as stress producing viewpoints - I wonder if he is a product of these beliefs, attitudes engendered by scientology that create stress. (Which only auditing and application of more stress producing policies will cure.)

I know when I was on 7, I was very stressed if things went wrong - I reacted very badly - screaming and yelling (and I am still a bit of a hot head though not as bad as I was) and perhaps that is the key - When things go wrong. Your ( you the OT, the Homo Novis, the game player, not the piece, the person who is supposed to be cause over mest) ) mockup is stopped or changed and you react badly against it. What do you think? Is it Scientology - or does everybody react badly when thwarted?

Mimsey

This leads to the problem of when they fall, they fall very hard and very low.

I don't think this mindset is something exclusive to Scientology, but I do think Scientology breeds it in most all of its members, ESP those on staff or SO. It's kind of like not all jewish people are hassidic zionists, but all hassidic zionists are Jews. So not everyone with this type of thinking is a scientologist, but all scientologist eventually succumb to this type of thinking - its part of the programming.

 

[smartone]

I've got so used to being thwarted that I don't act badly anymore. Just move on...

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

Lolol! 'Susceptibility' ~Stress/anxiety/fear etc. are the driving forces behind the 'gatherings-of-the-golds' in many faiths, scilontology is a master of guilt and denial, a subtle poisoning that will creep in and out of your life until you choose to defeat it.

Yeh, an unworthy 0.02$ worth I know, but hell's-bells-baby-jebus-onna-crutch, creating stress and drama was an old Hubbard favorite, on top of lying his ass off, abusing everyone in his path, and just being an ass-hat in general, the ol' 'You should be doing better blah-blah...' ... ick.
IMHO, anything LRon followed, creates an aura of confusion and stress, so, does it make a person malleable and prone to it? Pretty certain it does.

 

[GreyLensman]

My question re: scientology creating susceptibility to stress stems from a recent situation with a Scientologist client I have - Instead of recognizing a situation and confronting his clients with accurate information, he is bent on keeping up appearances, and pushing forward despite issues that need to be dealt with. One would think he would get honest with his clients and say "gee, I am sorry, but a situation has come up that we need to deal with." Instead he appears stressed out, is trying to get me to alter my position, because of promises he's made to his clients that are now, in need of revision.

While I can see he has made these promises, and he wants to keep them and keep up appearances, and move the job along, it is obvious he's getting stressed out.

In Scientology there is all of this - quantity is senior to quality, it has to be done by Thursday at two, the supreme test is to make it go right, no back flash, tell them an acceptable truth, keep your attention on the target, not the stops, which in general, these come across as stress producing viewpoints - I wonder if he is a product of these beliefs, attitudes engendered by scientology that create stress. (Which only auditing and application of more stress producing policies will cure.)

I know when I was on 7, I was very stressed if things went wrong - I reacted very badly - screaming and yelling (and I am still a bit of a hot head though not as bad as I was) and perhaps that is the key - When things go wrong. Your ( you the OT, the Homo Novis, the game player, not the piece, the person who is supposed to be cause over mest) ) mockup is stopped or changed and you react badly against it. What do you think? Is it Scientology - or does everybody react badly when thwarted?

Mimsey

Scientological point(s) of view create stress by their nature. The constant dichotomies ("it's only true if it's true for you" vs. "find your fucking MU you dilettante", "we are the free people" & "most ethical group on the planet" vs. ethics and justice and paying for sec checking because of being out of agreement...) alone create it. It takes a LOT of not-knowing and stopping yourself from looking to remain a Scientologist, even more so now than 20 years ago when I stopped believing.

 

[whoisxenu]

"I know when I was on 7, I was very stressed if things went wrong - I reacted very badly - screaming and yelling"

I thought yelling was the essence of scientology. No?:wink2:

 

[lotus]

===================================Yes,

Scientology creates stress, because $cientology creates ''wrongness'' within people to justify the need of such $cientology to solve problems they didn't have prior to coming in $cientology.

It's a vicious circle that auditing adresses, to create more need of auditing : for exemple, entities.

Most of $cientologists I know , including myself, have changed after years of $cientology and became people stressed, selfish, money oriented and often yelled or made others wrong.

I know people who gave up, and it took a while to let go the stress, distress, and they slowly came back to their initial true personnality and state of happyness!

 

[I told you I was trouble]

You only have to rid yourself of scientology to know that scientology creates the susceptibility for stress, it starts to dissipate at the very moment the decision to get out is made.

When the unspoken (but absolutely known) need to "keep up appearances" for cult PR is no longer there the person can start to be himself again.

It isn't just scientology, it's the same with any cult.

 

[Gib]

"I know when I was on 7, I was very stressed if things went wrong - I reacted very badly - screaming and yelling"

I thought yelling was the essence of scientology. No?:wink2:

so much for HE&R. laughter

oh, I forgot, an LRH datum.

an executive can get mad.

24/7

 

[gbuck]

My question re: scientology creating susceptibility to stress stems from a recent situation with a Scientologist client I have - Instead of recognizing a situation and confronting his clients with accurate information, he is bent on keeping up appearances, and pushing forward despite issues that need to be dealt with. One would think he would get honest with his clients and say "gee, I am sorry, but a situation has come up that we need to deal with." Instead he appears stressed out, is trying to get me to alter my position, because of promises he's made to his clients that are now, in need of revision.

While I can see he has made these promises, and he wants to keep them and keep up appearances, and move the job along, it is obvious he's getting stressed out.

In Scientology there is all of this - quantity is senior to quality, it has to be done by Thursday at two, the supreme test is to make it go right, no back flash, tell them an acceptable truth, keep your attention on the target, not the stops, which in general, these come across as stress producing viewpoints - I wonder if he is a product of these beliefs, attitudes engendered by scientology that create stress. (Which only auditing and application of more stress producing policies will cure.)

I know when I was on 7, I was very stressed if things went wrong - I reacted very badly - screaming and yelling (and I am still a bit of a hot head though not as bad as I was) and perhaps that is the key - When things go wrong. Your ( you the OT, the Homo Novis, the game player, not the piece, the person who is supposed to be cause over mest) ) mockup is stopped or changed and you react badly against it. What do you think? Is it Scientology - or does everybody react badly when thwarted?

Mimsey

Nobody likes reality to elbow it's way into their existence, politely or more brutally, and then proceed to remind them that actually they are not the boss, they are not OT and life may in fact not be what they had decided it was. Ones own reaction shows us how far away from base we really are. A small child's tantrum at discovering this is mild in the extreme compared to somebody who has invested a lot in their belief of omnipotence. An omnipotent OT will get very very pissed. All that money for starters

 

[gbuck]

I've got so used to being thwarted that I don't act badly anymore. Just move on...

Being thwarted is usually a timely reminder to me to 'WAKE UP' a WTF? moment.

If I'm stressing it indicates that I need to stop. If I listen is another story.

 

[lotus]

Can't find a correct definition of being thwarted

What does it mean here please ???

 

[gbuck]

Can't find a correct definition of being thwarted



What does it mean here please ???

That's 'cause you was thwarted


being pushed off of the path I want to pursue, or stopped from pursuing the direction I wish to travel

in essence any barrier that stops you getting your own way is thwarting you


thwart(thwôrt)tr.v. thwart·ed, thwart·ing, thwarts1. To prevent the occurrence, realization, or attainment of: They thwarted her plans.
2. To oppose and defeat the efforts, plans, or ambitions of.

n. NauticalA seat across a boat on which a rower may sit.

adj.1. Extending, lying, or passing across; transverse.
2. Eager to oppose, especially wrongly; perverse.

adv. & prep. ArchaicAthwart; across.

---

[Middle English thwerten, from thwert, across, from Old Norse thvert, neuter of thverr, transverse; see terk[SUP]w[/SUP]- in Indo-European roots.]

 

[Beam-Me-Up-Scotty]

It is around 30 years since I left the cult. Recently I have become involved in a fantastic self improvement organisation, however there are points for work done and a reward system when you have reached a certain accomplishment. Apart from otherwise being a terrific group this procedure has totally rubbed me the wrong way. I have realised this has totally reminded me subconsciously of ... you know where.

I also work really hard and over and above what I need to do for no extra pay ( got used to that from being on staff) and yes I have often worked, even if it is at home while I am quite sick. I even overly stress about being 5 minutes late for work. And of course I have little if no case on post at work.

I sometimes want to fly off the handle, and am easily irritated ... but nearly always manage to repress it.

Yes I feel I need to take responsibility for my ' thick as a brick ' actions of being 'dopey ' enough to get involved with the cult. However yes I think it certainly adds to a susceptibility to stress ... well at least half or more of mine. I guess a lot of ex staff have the added stress of trying to catch up with the years stuck in the cult. Trying to get a professional job, trying to get quals apart from being an auditor and fitting back into society.

I think the incredible pressure of trying to get stats up, plus the inner feeling of frustration, coping with Ethics Missions and imploring the public to sign up HAS A TERRIBLE EFFECT UPON THE NERVOUS SYSTEM.

 

[Free to shine]

It is around 30 years since I left the cult. Recently I have become involved in a fantastic self improvement organisation, however there are points for work done and a reward system when you have reached a certain accomplishment. Apart from otherwise being a terrific group this procedure has totally rubbed me the wrong way. I have realised this has totally reminded me subconsciously of ... you know where.

I also work really hard and over and above what I need to do for no extra pay ( got used to that from being on staff) and yes I have often worked, even if it is at home while I am quite sick. I even overly stress about being 5 minutes late for work. And of course I have little if no case on post at work.

I sometimes want to fly off the handle, and am easily irritated ... but nearly always manage to repress it.

Yes I feel I need to take responsibility for my ' thick as a brick ' actions of being 'dopey ' enough to get involved with the cult. However yes I think it certainly adds to a susceptibility to stress ... well at least half or more of mine. I guess a lot of ex staff have the added stress of trying to catch up with the years stuck in the cult. Trying to get a professional job, trying to get quals apart from being an auditor and fitting back into society.

I think the incredible pressure of trying to get stats up, plus the inner feeling of frustration, coping with Ethics Missions and imploring the public to sign up HAS A TERRIBLE EFFECT UPON THE NERVOUS SYSTEM.

You are certainly not alone in how you feel. The habits of 'never showing emotion' (HE&R), of having to always present a successful front (PR) and not being able to change direction (Make It Go Right), or God forbid failure (YOU failed and pulled it in) are hard to identify and come to understand and there are many, many more. I know quite a few really old timers who don't even know they are doing this, or all the rest. There are a lot of articles and posts here that can help, but most of all, be kind to yourself!

 

[gbuck]

It is around 30 years since I left the cult. Recently I have become involved in a fantastic self improvement organisation, however there are points for work done and a reward system when you have reached a certain accomplishment. Apart from otherwise being a terrific group this procedure has totally rubbed me the wrong way. I have realised this has totally reminded me subconsciously of ... you know where.

I also work really hard and over and above what I need to do for no extra pay ( got used to that from being on staff) and yes I have often worked, even if it is at home while I am quite sick. I even overly stress about being 5 minutes late for work. And of course I have little if no case on post at work.

I sometimes want to fly off the handle, and am easily irritated ... but nearly always manage to repress it.

Yes I feel I need to take responsibility for my ' thick as a brick ' actions of being 'dopey ' enough to get involved with the cult. However yes I think it certainly adds to a susceptibility to stress ... well at least half or more of mine. I guess a lot of ex staff have the added stress of trying to catch up with the years stuck in the cult. Trying to get a professional job, trying to get quals apart from being an auditor and fitting back into society.

I think the incredible pressure of trying to get stats up, plus the inner feeling of frustration, coping with Ethics Missions and imploring the public to sign up HAS A TERRIBLE EFFECT UPON THE NERVOUS SYSTEM.

I also got out about 30 years ago and didn't see until recently how much I was still in the grip if you like of indoctrinated cult-thought, and became aware that a lot of my actions which had caused me stress originated in thought patterns that I had taken on as my own that subconsciously dictated my actions. Success and productivity became driving forces always in the background and just out of my conscious awareness. After spotting this they revealed themselves and started to fall apart upon inspection. Very liberating as being driven by unexamined and maybe even examined thoughts makes for an automaton, and removing or letting them go brings a clarity that I had thought had vanished.
I still make a point, if possible, of being punctual for the other, out of consideration but not as a compulsion, because shit happens! And often being late turns out to be ok, for everyone.
Stress to me is a reminder that I'm doing something that doesn't fit correctly, it's not bad in itself, it's only stress but it does point to something, and raises alarm bells to me.

The need to produce more, more and continuously more is similar to the action of cancerous cells, bankers and weapons manufacturers and is obviously insane, ludicrous, impossible, and plain bonkers.
Isn't enough, enough?
Maybe you're not as thick as you believe. Being stressed doesn't need to be a normal way of life. Who needs it?

 

[Dulloldfart]

I don't think there would be any argument that being a CofS Scientologist is stressful, whether staff (SO or NSO) or public.

But the philosophy/tech/body-of-bullshit itself? I guess it varies from person to person. When I left the SO in 1996 I was pretty much a full-blown Scientologist. I didn't feel any particular stresses due to the philosophy I had taken to heart or the way I looked at the world around me. On the contrary, I found bits of Scientology useful in reducing stress (auditing!) that came about in the course of normal living.

Today I'm not a Scientologist. I still have a relatively stress-free life.

Paul

 

[Enthetan]

In Scientology there is all of this - quantity is senior to quality, it has to be done by Thursday at two, the supreme test is to make it go right, no back flash, tell them an acceptable truth, keep your attention on the target, not the stops, which in general, these come across as stress producing viewpoints - I wonder if he is a product of these beliefs, attitudes engendered by scientology that create stress. (Which only auditing and application of more stress producing policies will cure.)

Oh, Scientology is GREATLY stress-inducing. Especially if you are a "whale". I wasn't considered a whale, yet I would still get several calls per week. I can only imagine what whales get, probably several a day: from WISE asking about business targets, IAS demanding more money, the FSO demanding money for OT7 and for the whale to come in for service. And all of them threatening Ethics action if compliance does not come NOW, NOW, NOW!

The total would be guaranteed to produce stress.

 

[Kemist]

Any ideology which does not allow you to accept that there are many things outside of your personal control will create stress IMO.

This is not unique to scientology. Many mostly benign groups / movements cultivate an extreme version of personal responsibility. I have seen the effect of such a philosophy on a friend with cancer, and it isn't pretty. She would be wracked with guilt every time she would get bad news, as if she was responsible for the way her cancer cells respond to chemo. She would even get stressed about the way she was stressed out .

The suffering I witnessed in her is the main reason I hate these "cults of personal responsibility" which tell people that they have complete control over their circumstances if they have the right attitude, thoughts and work hard enough (the Secret, positive thinking, ect.) no matter how benign they are.

Reality isn't like that. Shit happens. Why beat yourself up over things you can't control ?

Scientology seems to be an extreme version of these things - you're supposed to be "at cause" over everything. Which might be exhilarating when you happen to succeed, but is bound to bring you a truckload of guilt when you will inevitably fail, because reality always wins, no matter how deluded you are.

 

[lotus]

That's 'cause you was thwarted


being pushed off of the path I want to pursue, or stopped from pursuing the direction I wish to travel

in essence any barrier that stops you getting your own way is thwarting you


thwart(thwôrt)tr.v. thwart·ed, thwart·ing, thwarts1. To prevent the occurrence, realization, or attainment of: They thwarted her plans.
2. To oppose and defeat the efforts, plans, or ambitions of.

n. NauticalA seat across a boat on which a rower may sit.

adj.1. Extending, lying, or passing across; transverse.
2. Eager to oppose, especially wrongly; perverse.

adv. & prep. ArchaicAthwart; across.

---

[Middle English thwerten, from thwert, across, from Old Norse thvert, neuter of thverr, transverse; see terk[SUP]w[/SUP]- in Indo-European roots.]

OH!
thanks gbuck

That was the main definition I got but wasn't certain it was the right context!
It's nice, I appreciate
:wink2:

That's 'cause you was thwarted

Oh no sweetheart!

No word can thwart me since I am out of $cientogoy!
No word is anymore making my life a misery

I gave up - MU's are too big of an ennemy for me!