The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Is it time?

It's 5:00 somewhere

wrong...

it's 4:20 somewhere...

 

[Gib]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

many tons of ron's output are garbage gibby

in fact, THANK YOU!!!

for that link that enlightened me on the subject of rhetoric. this is truly an immense factor for anyone who wants to make a serious examination of the man and his work. i noted that letter ron sent to the professor of rhetoric in the thirties and now after only glancing briefly at your link much light as been shed...

YES!!!

DMSMH is loaded with rhetoric and it now is clear to me ron gave long and deep thought to subject of rhetoric

now then...

as it happens, i believe i was a most exceptional student of ron's work from the gitgo; i had a nearly uncanny sense of the difference between the nuggets and the rhetoric the nuggets were wrapped in

and i might give the passage you present a closer look later on but ron was many things, some of them... ahem... perhaps somewhat problematic but he was surely A WALKING YAK FESTIVAL!!!

Mankinds greatest friend didn't even teach us rhetoric or tell us he used rhetoric to persuade. What a great guy!

Thanks Ron, you asshole!

However, C-BS, you seem to be side stepping the simple request of paraphasing what Ron wrote that I linked.

PS. I'm glad you got what you got from Dianetics & scientology, and you realize much of what Hubbard wrote was BS. What about the poor fuks that didn't? They spent time (like 20-30 years) and lots of money reading Ron! and rereading Ron, (number of times over = certainty = qual)

And many are still caught in the mind fuk!

And you talk about how you got something out of it and there are nuggets?

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Mankinds greatest friend didn't even teach us rhetoric or tell us he used rhetoric to persuade. What a great guy!

Thanks Ron, you asshole!

However, C-BS, you seem to be side stepping the simple request of paraphasing what Ron wrote that I linked.

PS. I'm glad you got what you got from Dianetics & scientology, and you realize much of what Hubbard wrote was BS. What about the poor fuks that didn't? They spent time (like 20-30 years) and lots of money reading Ron! and rereading Ron, (number of times over = certainty = qual)

And many are still caught in the mind fuk!

And you talk about how you got something out of it and there are nuggets?

gibby, the people that are in have a right to do as they choose

i would no more recommend a spiritual seeker enter CoS than tell a horny dude to go to a cannibal for a blowjob

otoh...

if someone was interested in taking up the study i wouldn't stand their way

and all right...

tomorrow i'll take a look at the passage you posted...

hasta manana amigo!

 

[Gib]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

gibby, the people that are in have a right to do as they choose

i would no more recommend a spiritual seeker enter CoS than tell a horny dude to go to a cannibal for a blowjob

otoh...

if someone was interested in taking up the study i wouldn't stand their way

and all right...

tomorrow i'll take a look at the passage you posted...

hasta manana amigo!

That sentence sounds all good, and freedom of thought et al,

but what did Hubbard teach and say, endlessly?

as you just stated GARBAGE, he was a talking yak festival.

 

[Little David]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

many tons of ron's output are garbage gibby

in fact, THANK YOU!!!

for that link that enlightened me on the subject of rhetoric. this is truly an immense factor for anyone who wants to make a serious examination of the man and his work. i noted that letter ron sent to the professor of rhetoric in the thirties and now after only glancing briefly at your link much light as been shed...

YES!!!

DMSMH is loaded with rhetoric and it now is clear to me ron gave long and deep thought to subject of rhetoric

now then...

as it happens, i believe i was a most exceptional student of ron's work from the gitgo; i had a nearly uncanny sense of the difference between the nuggets and the rhetoric the nuggets were wrapped in

and i might give the passage you present a closer look later on but ron was many things, some of them... ahem... perhaps somewhat problematic but he was surely A WALKING YAK FESTIVAL!!!

These are more useful than LRH's stolen nuggets that he claimed were his in his mendacious rhetoric:

 

[George Layton]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

gibby, the people that are in have a right to do as they choose

i would no more recommend a spiritual seeker enter CoS than tell a horny dude to go to a cannibal for a blowjob

otoh...

if someone was interested in taking up the study i wouldn't stand their way

and all right...

tomorrow i'll take a look at the passage you posted...

hasta manana amigo!

If you have the right to choose the only right you've been allowed to learn, is that still a right to choose?

 

[Gib]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

These are more useful than LRH's stolen nuggets that he claimed were his in his mendacious rhetoric:

Thank you, excellent choice of words.

Rhetoric can used to persuade telling the truth, and the reverse, to persuade using lies.

There is white scientology, and there is black scientology. This is true if one believes and knows scientology works.(the scientologist or similar version of one)

There is white scientology, and there is black scientology, this is false if people do not believe in scientology. (wogs, media, professors, other religion fanatics, ordinary people, etc)

Because I was once a scinetologist and only saw one side, and now that I am not a scientologist, when a scientologist says I'm PTS or an SP,

I just laugh out loud, their words calling me a PTS or SP is meanlngless and false.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Thank you, excellent choice of words.

Rhetoric can used to persuade telling the truth, and the reverse, to persuade using lies.

There is white scientology, and there is black scientology. This is true if one believes and knows scientology works.(the scientologist or similar version of one)

There is white scientology, and there is black scientology, this is false if people do not believe in scientology. (wogs, media, professors, other religion fanatics, ordinary people, etc)

Because I was once a scinetologist and only saw one side, and now that I am not a scientologist, when a scientologist says I'm PTS or an SP,

I just laugh out loud, their words calling me a PTS or SP is meanlngless and false.

I'm in total agreement with you on your last sentence about them calling you PTS or SP. Anyone in COS doing that to any of us who have left is doing something which is meaningless and false.

On the rest of your post, you make some good points. I sum it up by quoting something which Buddha said, "If its not true for you, its not true." This saying gets attributed to Hubbard but he took it from Buddha. Hubbard used this statement in intro lectures to help attract new followers. The terrible thing is that no one inside COS is allowed to use that piece of wisdom and if someone does insist on using it, they are assigned a lower conditions and are eventually off loaded if they won't recant.

I believe this piece of wisdom from Buddha applies to the debate on whether anyhing in Hubbard's tech has workability. For some people, it is true for them that some of Hubbard's tech has workability and they believe this with all their hearts. For others, they believe with all their hearts that none of Hubbard's tech has workability and they also believe that those who believe it works for them are deluding themselves.

I choose to apply Buddha's teaching on this issue and declare people on both sides of the issue to be stating the truth as they see it. Doing so offers a total resolution to this troublesome question, a question that often leads to violent and hate filled debates which never resolve.

There may be objective truths on other things having to do with Hubbard. We can declare it to be true that he was a poor husband, a poor father, that he lied about and embellished his past, that he stole tech from other sources and declared it to be his own, etc. Those items can mutually be agreed upon by all people who have studied Hubbard's life. However, whether any piece of his tech works or not, is a different type of question.

Pieces of his tech work for some and not for others. To be at peace with this issue, people need to accept this fact and declare both factions to be speaking the truth as they see it.
Lakey

 

[Gizmo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

More than " Buddah said it " or " LRH hisself said it " try, perhaps, this :

Each person forms reality from their perception of it.

Wait a second ! Can it really be that what I perceive as reality IS my reality ? Can it be any other way ? Not really.

True enough, some people create on default ( & attribute their create to others ) while others knowingly create by their own intent ( & accept that ).

It would seem more than this " right / wrong " evaluation of every single thing that maybe a somewhat softer approach of individuals each having a varying degree of difference leads to more pleasant experiences along the path of this physical life experience.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

That sentence sounds all good, and freedom of thought et al,

but what did Hubbard teach and say, endlessly?

as you just stated GARBAGE, he was a talking yak festival.

gib...

ron was surely a walking yak festival and his material needs some serious pruning

but...

though there really are tons of garbage the gross tonnage of solid material is impressive, profound and wondrous

the sonofabitch and his colleagues have produced a magnum opus for the ages

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I'm in total agreement with you on your last sentence about them calling you PTS or SP. Anyone in COS doing that to any of us who have left is doing something which is meaningless and false.

On the rest of your post, you make some good points. I sum it up by quoting something which Buddha said, "If its not true for you, its not true." This saying gets attributed to Hubbard but he took it from Buddha. Hubbard used this statement in intro lectures to help attract new followers. The terrible thing is that no one inside COS is allowed to use that piece of wisdom and if someone does insist on using it, they are assigned a lower conditions and are eventually off loaded if they won't recant.

I believe this piece of wisdom from Buddha applies to the debate on whether anyhing in Hubbard's tech has workability. For some people, it is true for them that some of Hubbard's tech has workability and they believe this with all their hearts. For others, they believe with all their hearts that none of Hubbard's tech has workability and they also believe that those who believe it works for them are deluding themselves.

I choose to apply Buddha's teaching on this issue and declare people on both sides of the issue to be stating the truth as they see it. Doing so offers a total resolution to this troublesome question, a question that often leads to violent and hate filled debates which never resolve.

There may be objective truths on other things having to do with Hubbard. We can declare it to be true that he was a poor husband, a poor father, that he lied about and embellished his past, that he stole tech from other sources and declared it to be his own, etc. Those items can mutually be agreed upon by all people who have studied Hubbard's life. However, whether any piece of his tech works or not, is a different type of question.

Pieces of his tech work for some and not for others. To be at peace with this issue, people need to accept this fact and declare both factions to be speaking the truth as they see it.
Lakey

damn right he did some "heavy lifting" lakey

"a bad poet borrows, a good poet steals"

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

but the riff from the walking yak festival said it in 1952, before KSW?

I await your paraphase in poetry.

Unless, of course, you can't answer the challenge before you, to make hubbards words right.

gibby...

people on this board endlessly address me, challenge me and try to jacket me as a rondroid scibot

i wasn't even like that when i was active. i did a very good preparation for the study, i maintained IMPECCABLE!!! personal integrity as a judeochristian, as an american patriot and as a mensch while i studied and i quietly, silently edited the materials i studied

i left forty years ago and i have only rarely ever discussed the subject and when i have shifted into auditing gear and applied what i know of the theory and practice on behalf of some poor beggar i have done so casually and smoothly w/o mention of my sources

now...

let me go find the passage you cite and see if i think ron was saying anything i find noteworthy...

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Here's what Ron said, from the link I provided above, since you didn't read it, I reckon: (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...k)-in-your-org&p=996266&viewfull=1#post996266)



Your response is completely different than what Ron said.

Can you paraphrase what Ron said?
(Just what Ron said, with no additives, opinions, etc.)

PS: I don't have a writing style, I just write. Mostly off the cuff.

And, how about you, C-BS, can you paraphrase what Ron said w/o your poetry, opinions, additives, etc.

PPS. Lakey I didn't ask for your opinion, I asked for what is your opinion of what Ron said.

PPPS. opinion actually meaning what is your understanding of what Ron said.

okay gibby...

LOL!!!

that hubbard was a freewheelin' lighthearted sonofagun, son...

he goes and takes a look at this very serious subject of psychiatric abuses and cops a cavalier attitude; says to hell with playing it straight, it's more fun to goof on the meatballs, explaining that although they are committing a vast array of frequently lethal atrocities in the grand scheme of things it don't mean diddlysquat because we are spiritual beings and ultimately you can do no real harm to a spiritual being

and there is a good lesson in it. whether or not ron was intending to do so he was using "reverse psychology because a certain percentage of men and woman of good will who read that are going to go "whoa! i give a real big shit in present time about psychiatric abuses. i have friends, neighbors and family members who got their eggs scrambled and their brains fried by the goddam shrinks and i want to do something about it and work with others who want to do something about it"

and...

he gives them something to help them in pressing that longer view on them. that greater view can do much to help someone avoid getting overwhelmed by the task at hand and avoid one of the reformers most common pitfalls; taking themselves too seriously

 

[Leland]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

okay gibby...

LOL!!!

that hubbard was a freewheelin' lighthearted sonofagun, son...

he goes and takes a look at this very serious subject of psychiatric abuses and cops a cavalier attitude; says to hell with playing it straight, it's more fun to goof on the meatballs, explaining that although they are committing a vast array of frequently lethal atrocities in the grand scheme of things it don't mean diddlysquat because we are spiritual beings and ultimately you can do no real harm to a spiritual being

and there is a good lesson in it. whether or not ron was intending to do so he was using "reverse psychology because a certain percentage of men and woman of good will who read that are going to go "whoa! i give a real big shit in present time about psychiatric abuses. i have friends, neighbors and family members who got their eggs scrambled and their brains fried by the goddam shrinks and i want to do something about it and work with others who want to do something about it"

and...

he gives them something to help them in pressing that longer view on them. that greater view can do much to help someone avoid getting overwhelmed by the task at hand and avoid one of the reformers most common pitfalls; taking themselves too seriously

That doesn't jive very well....with that letter from LRH, posted here, inwhich he requests Psychiatric attention....for his problems....way back when. (From the Navy I believe)

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

so...

anyway lakey...

are you picking up at all on the general idea of the Three Bullet Point thing?

it really is a very bright idea, i'm surprised it didn't set your toes to tappin'; you've always given the impression of being the sort of dude who gets off on bright ideas

moreover

and more importantly...

true or false...

i'd think you are someone who would pay very close attention if Co$ did a major valence shift to turn it into CoS

tell me lakey, true or false?

i know, i know, you're 76 years old and entitled to say "i don' give a fuck and i don' have to; i've lived a damn good life, i've done my thing, i'm gonna pop open a brewski and watch the ballgame so don't bug me"

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

That doesn't jive very well....with that letter from LRH, posted here, inwhich he requests Psychiatric attention....for his problems....way back when. (From the Navy I believe)

well leland, if you'll notice, i'm responding to gib's request to paraphrase something ron wrote in the early fifties that hasnothing to do with the letter you mention

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

so...

anyway lakey...

are you picking up at all on the general idea of the Three Bullet Point thing?

it really is a very bright idea, i'm surprised it didn't set your toes to tappin'; you've always given the impression of being the sort of dude who gets off on bright ideas

moreover

and more importantly...

true or false...

i'd think you are someone who would pay very close attention if Co$ did a major valence shift to turn it into CoS

tell me lakey, true or false?

i know, i know, you're 76 years old and entitled to say "i don' give a fuck and i don' have to; i've lived a damn good life, i've done my thing, i'm gonna pop open a brewski and watch the ballgame so don't bug me"

Sorry, I don't have the slightest idea what what the 3 bullet thing is all about.

The idea you sort of attributed to Hubbard, i.e., 'What does it matter if psychiatry harms people, no one can truly damage a spiritual being', really makes me nauseous. To go around with that notion is to be in apathy or lower. Why bother being alive if that's the way one feels? If Hubbard truly felt that way and then went ahead and set up his movement, then he would be a total dirt bag. Is that one of your bullets?

Clever play on symbols, converting C of $ into C of S. That is a very creative play on words and symbols - put one slash down the middle of the letter S and you communicate a complex thought. Its really amazing, to convey this major thought you don't require a noun, a verb not even one word, nor even one letter. Put a slash in the last letter of C of S and write: C of $ > Cof S and you convey the concept of converting the money hungry Church of Scientology into a more ethical Church of Scientology. How brilliant you were to come up with that!

BTW, I just turned 75 not 76 and for many of us, it is difficult to adjust to being mid 70's so no need to rush the onset of the late 70's

For me, I have not yet done my thing and am not resting on my laurels and popping off a brewski. I do watch ball games, however. I started following the Angels in 1950 when it was a minor league team in the Pacific Coast League. I attended many Angel games at Wrigley field in L.A. because the L.A. Angels were a farm team of the Chicago Cubs, owned by chewing gum magnate, P.K. Wrigley. The minor league Angels played in Wrigley field in Los Angeles. This staduim was very similar to Wrigley field in Chicago but on a smaller scale. It was a double decked stadium which did hold 24,000 people while the stadium in Chicago held nearly 40,000. Both stadiums used the same kind of bricks and the stadium walls were covered with ivy. Here are some photos of old Wrigley Field in L.A. which was torn down about 50 years ago:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Wrigley+field+in+Los+Angeles&rlz=1C1CHFX

I was also an L.A. Rams football fan but dropped them when they moved to St Louis in 1995. Also, when the basketball Lakers left Minneapolis after the 1959 season and moved to Los Angeles, I began being a Laker fan at that time.
Lakey

 

[Gib]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The idea you sort of attributed to Hubbard, i.e., 'What does it matter if psychiatry harms people, no one can truly damage a spiritual being, really makes me nauseous. To go around with that notion is to be in apathy or lower. Why bother being alive if that's the way one feels? If Hubbard truly felt that way and then went ahead and set up his movement, then he would be a total dirt bag. Is that one of your bullets?

The statement by Hubbard also contradicts his engram theory and later incidents on the whole track gibberish.

 

[Gib]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

okay gibby...

LOL!!!

that hubbard was a freewheelin' lighthearted sonofagun, son...

he goes and takes a look at this very serious subject of psychiatric abuses and cops a cavalier attitude; says to hell with playing it straight, it's more fun to goof on the meatballs, explaining that although they are committing a vast array of frequently lethal atrocities in the grand scheme of things it don't mean diddlysquat because we are spiritual beings and ultimately you can do no real harm to a spiritual being

and there is a good lesson in it. whether or not ron was intending to do so he was using "reverse psychology because a certain percentage of men and woman of good will who read that are going to go "whoa! i give a real big shit in present time about psychiatric abuses. i have friends, neighbors and family members who got their eggs scrambled and their brains fried by the goddam shrinks and i want to do something about it and work with others who want to do something about it"

and...

he gives them something to help them in pressing that longer view on them. that greater view can do much to help someone avoid getting overwhelmed by the task at hand and avoid one of the reformers most common pitfalls; taking themselves too seriously

good paraphrase.

However, people have taken it seriously,

ie the CCHR and IAS and Hubbard in stating Psych's should be eradicated.

so, on the one hand it's just a game Ron wanted to play, but yet somehow Ron got members to play his stupid game.

on the other hand, do you realize how much time, money and effort has been played on Ron's stupid game?

It's still going on in present time.

I'm not talking about you C-BS, but the effects Ron caused.

Oh yes, I know, there are nuggets.

 

[Gizmo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

good paraphrase.

However, people have taken it seriously,

ie the CCHR and IAS and Hubbard in stating Psych's should be eradicated.

so, on the one hand it's just a game Ron wanted to play, but yet somehow Ron got members to play his stupid game.

on the other hand, do you realize how much time, money and effort has been played on Ron's stupid game?

It's still going on in present time.

I'm not talking about you C-BS, but the effects Ron caused.

Oh yes, I know, there are nuggets.

Hold on ! You dang well know the usual apologists will show up & defend the honor of Ella Ritz .

Wasn't he Mankind's Greatest something or other ?