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A DECLARE..SHATTERED CHILDREN..DISCONNECTION

Nicole

Silver Meritorious Patron
Now that some time has passed since this disconnection I find it really hard to settle down and find a way to just deal with it.


We are still in contact (if you can call it that) via e-mail but the most I get out of my daughter is maybe a 4 word e-mail, at times all I get is an “OK” response, there is NO MORE GENUINE interaction.

Scientology has done a good job at destroying that.:angry:

Now make no mistake she is in a VERY Scientology family so even though the line has not been totally cut (due only to legal reasons for them being minors) when she turns 18 I believe disconnection will be enforced to the maximum, I am sure of this as I know the family well and of course I live thousands of miles away which does not help either.

The biggest problem for me is I see this from the viewpoint of “Scientology disconnection tech working” which pisses me off to think it has this effect on me.:angry:

When perhaps I should look at it from what I need to do to maintain my relationship with my daughter; which plays into what pisses me off; do you see where I am heading with this.
To stay in touch with my daughter to any degree I really have to tow the line when it comes to Scio. Not block her from doing it. Never say anything negative about it to her and basically give her my full support or I will loose her.
That is the vindictive Scio policy working.

Or I could lay it on the line with her and do what I can to hinder her bridge progress she is only 12. That way I for sure will loose any and all contact.
Bearing in mind I feel I will loose that contact anyway when she is 18.
As her father do I not have the obligation to protect her from potentially harmful groups.
Is it noble of me to possible destroy my relationship with her by hindering her bridge progress to protect her or should I just let her walk through it on her own and see what happens.:confused2:
Tip toeing around this makes me very uneasy.:grouch:
Until she is 18 I could greatly hinder her progress, not all of it but a lot.
Sure she turns 18 and just goes flat out in Scio anyway and I will be out of the picture.

Lets assume disconnection policy or threat of it did not exist, at all. No danger of loosing a father daughter bond.
What would you do in this instance?
I would say you would show her the truth to Scientology and get her to look and get her out.
I say the only reason I am not doing this is because of Scientology policy and that is NOT GOOD.

My life is not run by Scio policy.

Am I looking at this all wrong?

I feel upset again, during I read about it. It is a pity that you can't go the way over courts. I am thinking allways it would be the best way to get her out. She is 12 years old. Didn't exist there a chance that you get the custody? Don't mind this question. The problem that I see is, what is if your daughter is older and she things why didn't my father do everything to put me out of the cult? Why he didn't go the way over the courts? If you will loose, your daughter will know you make anything.

You have contact with her. She answers with little Mails. She reads what you write. She knows that you are there for her. But the other influence is much bigger.

If I understood you right, if you write her you let the Scientology part outside. That is the way you stay in contact. I try to feel me inside your daughter. She directly things Scientology is the best of the world, she is brainwashed. Her father is an "evil" SP. But she loves him, she didn't want to disappoint him too. But he is far way. On the other side is the BIG Scientology influence and the influence of the mother and the familiy. The father will loose. I am sorry but you have no chance. The contact will break. I am sure.

I would take the chance in the rest of the contact that exist, to write her that you love her, that you are allways there and if she needs help you are immediatly there. But I would also write your opinion about Scientology (Explained for a 12 year old child) She has a right to know your opinion and the true. If she gets older maybe it helps her. IMO the contact will break no matter what you write.

As her father do I not have the obligation to protect her from potentially harmful groups.

It is your obligation and you have to do it.
 

Illegal Alien

Patron with Honors
E-mail to IJC, Flag, OSA ANZO and relevant parties

As I know that this board is watched by OSA and to make sure that this becomes known I am posting here a section of an e-mail which I sent to IJC, Flag, OSA ANZO and the parties involved with this.

"My x-wife sent me an e-mail a few weeks ago saying that my kids passports are about to expire and that I need to authorize new passports for them as they are regulars at Flag and the Freewinds.
The law has changed and I have to sign these documents in the presence of a person in the nearest Consulate. This is the only way for them to receive new passports.
So that you know I am not going to re-new their passports. The simple reason being I am not going to allow my kids to associate themselves with Scientology who with their own policies are forcing my kids to not speak to me.
I can not stop them studying Scientology in their own country or when they are older than 18, but I can stop them studying overseas.

Make no mistake unless the law changes or I am informed otherwise should I find out that my kids Estefania and Rafael are studying Scientology outside of Mexico I will take this up with the Mexican Consulate here in Australia to see if there has been a law change. (I have been informed by them that there is NO other way for them to get a passport) and if no law has changed or a unethical approach has been taken for their passports I will involve all interested parties including the Church in reports written to the necessary authorities.

I had no problem with my kids in Scientology but the day your policy on "disconnection" was applied to take my kids away was the day my approach to Scientology and my kids bridge changed."
 

Happy Days

Silver Meritorious Patron
As I know that this board is watched by OSA and to make sure that this becomes known I am posting here a section of an e-mail which I sent to IJC, Flag, OSA ANZO and the parties involved with this.

"My x-wife sent me an e-mail a few weeks ago saying that my kids passports are about to expire and that I need to authorize new passports for them as they are regulars at Flag and the Freewinds.
The law has changed and I have to sign these documents in the presence of a person in the nearest Consulate. This is the only way for them to receive new passports.
So that you know I am not going to re-new their passports. The simple reason being I am not going to allow my kids to associate themselves with Scientology who with their own policies are forcing my kids to not speak to me.
I can not stop them studying Scientology in their own country or when they are older than 18, but I can stop them studying overseas.

Make no mistake unless the law changes or I am informed otherwise should I find out that my kids Estefania and Rafael are studying Scientology outside of Mexico I will take this up with the Mexican Consulate here in Australia to see if there has been a law change. (I have been informed by them that there is NO other way for them to get a passport) and if no law has changed or a unethical approach has been taken for their passports I will involve all interested parties including the Church in reports written to the necessary authorities.

I had no problem with my kids in Scientology but the day your policy on "disconnection" was applied to take my kids away was the day my approach to Scientology and my kids bridge changed."

You go IA

And that my friends is what you call leverage ... you little beauty :yes::yes:
 

Nicole

Silver Meritorious Patron
I support your decision.:yes:

Your children will know one day how you love them... I am sure!:yes::yes:

The influence of CO$ will fail. They fail always...
 

Sir Facer

Patron with Honors
Dont back down!

As I know that this board is watched by OSA and to make sure that this becomes known I am posting here a section of an e-mail which I sent to IJC, Flag, OSA ANZO and the parties involved with this.

"My x-wife sent me an e-mail a few weeks ago saying that my kids passports are about to expire and that I need to authorize new passports for them as they are regulars at Flag and the Freewinds.
The law has changed and I have to sign these documents in the presence of a person in the nearest Consulate. This is the only way for them to receive new passports.
So that you know I am not going to re-new their passports. The simple reason being I am not going to allow my kids to associate themselves with Scientology who with their own policies are forcing my kids to not speak to me.
I can not stop them studying Scientology in their own country or when they are older than 18, but I can stop them studying overseas.

Make no mistake unless the law changes or I am informed otherwise should I find out that my kids Estefania and Rafael are studying Scientology outside of Mexico I will take this up with the Mexican Consulate here in Australia to see if there has been a law change. (I have been informed by them that there is NO other way for them to get a passport) and if no law has changed or a unethical approach has been taken for their passports I will involve all interested parties including the Church in reports written to the necessary authorities.

I had no problem with my kids in Scientology but the day your policy on "disconnection" was applied to take my kids away was the day my approach to Scientology and my kids bridge changed."

Well said IA!

If the CoS want to stop you from seeing your children, why the hell should you support this group by giving the Church the freedom of your childrens money & time, infact being able to have their support in any way if they can't even see or communicate to the one man that will truly love them unconditionally no matter what choices they make!

You go for it IA Z& dont back down! Your kids need to know youll fight for them no matter what!

So sorry you are going through this.
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yea

As I know that this board is watched by OSA and to make sure that this becomes known I am posting here a section of an e-mail which I sent to IJC, Flag, OSA ANZO and the parties involved with this.

"My x-wife sent me an e-mail a few weeks ago saying that my kids passports are about to expire and that I need to authorize new passports for them as they are regulars at Flag and the Freewinds.
The law has changed and I have to sign these documents in the presence of a person in the nearest Consulate. This is the only way for them to receive new passports.
So that you know I am not going to re-new their passports. The simple reason being I am not going to allow my kids to associate themselves with Scientology who with their own policies are forcing my kids to not speak to me.
I can not stop them studying Scientology in their own country or when they are older than 18, but I can stop them studying overseas.

Make no mistake unless the law changes or I am informed otherwise should I find out that my kids Estefania and Rafael are studying Scientology outside of Mexico I will take this up with the Mexican Consulate here in Australia to see if there has been a law change. (I have been informed by them that there is NO other way for them to get a passport) and if no law has changed or a unethical approach has been taken for their passports I will involve all interested parties including the Church in reports written to the necessary authorities.

I had no problem with my kids in Scientology but the day your policy on "disconnection" was applied to take my kids away was the day my approach to Scientology and my kids bridge changed."

Yea, IA - :thumbsup:.
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
I've gone over how this could effect me over and over and over again. The difference for me is my family is still together so we do not have space between us and Scientology is only my wife's interest.

My opinion is you've got nothing left to lose. She's not really even in contact with you at this point. I would do whatever you have to to make it very difficult for them to deal with you unless it's with your daughter directly.
There have been too many people who have bowed down to Scientology's control tactics.

I really feel for you here and wish in some way i could do something. Good luck and I hope she leaves right at 18 years old.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
HI IA

Good on yer for not signing the passport apps.

Not sure how divorce settlements work in Mexico but I am surprised that your children are being exposed to a religion that you disagree with - do you not get any say so in this?

AS for your email communications with your daughter - perhaps going with "damning with faint praise" might be the best way? "I am sure some of the OTs in Mexico can bring the drug wars under control easily" kind of thing. I am sure you could have fun thinking of other things to say.

The idea is to get her to think for herself of course.

Good luck!!
 

smartone

My Own Boss
Hi IA, As they are under 18, can you not get a Court Order to disconnect them from Scientology? I'm not familiar with the laws in Mexico but surely they would be considered minors? Am I living in La La land, I dunno. But nothing to lose in finding out.
 

sp declared

Patron with Honors
Don't give up

Hi IA,

I give you my viewpoint and my 2 cents even if my sit is a little bit differente from yours.

My brother has disconnected from me since more than 4 years because of my getting sp declared. During those 4 years I have tried all what you may call "good roads and good weather" strategies. I tried to make him understand that I loved and supported him and his family even though he had disconnected, I have been polite and respectful in family reunions (basically accepting not to flap and not to talk to him), I bought present for him and his wife at christmas, I didn't natter about the church with my family, I didn't flap about him having disconnected etc, etc, etc.

The result? Zero. Nada. Nihil.

As you have been a scientologist yourself, you may probably understand that he REALLY thinks I am a suppressive element or that at least I have committed serious crimes against the church and/or perhaps I am under the influence of a very evil person around me.

And every day he doesn't talk to me, per the theory of cognitive dissonance, he comes to find further outpoints in me (to justify his decision).

So I decided I will change my strategy: I'll flap with my parents, I'll expose the truth, I will send him entheta. I am prettu certain that although short term he will hate me, in the long long term he will be thanking me.

We are going to take down the abusiveness of scientology. You have all my support and my hearth is with you.

Keep going soul mate. Never give up.

Sp Declared
 

Illegal Alien

Patron with Honors
TO OSA

Have you ever heard of a snow ball and what happens to it as it rolls down a snowy mountain. It grows and grows and gets stronger and stronger. :yes:
So now that that has been cleared up.

Lets take a look at the latest on this scene.

I have still been e-mailing my daughter as I do not give a sh.t about what Scio says or thinks.

I got an e-mail from my daughter today saying that she does not want to receive e-mails or phone calls from me until I authorize a new passport for her.

I am sure you think well she is not talking to him because of a passport issue..........so it has nothing to do with disconnection by a minor; for you to think that way is not advisable:naughty:

The real reason behind this is the DISCONNECTION policy and I will treat it as such.

The snow ball is rolling and as per your ethics tech of increasing the ethics gradient..................................................:angry:

OSA you get the idea :grouch:
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
I would treat your daughter as you have been and keep that line of communication with her as open as possible.

You may request seeing her in person through the courts. I would exercise all possible rights that you have through the courts immediately if a letter to the cofs and your ex-wife does not illicit immediate action in your favor. You have let your rights be taken away and as far as I know only a court can do that. Scn. is criminal in this action and I'll betcha if you write a nice letter insisting on visitation with your daughter on a regular (as possible) basis or else you will be taking legal action, that the tides will turn to avoid this. Send it through an attorney.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7517540732146388361#

Maybe this will help your daughter understand better how you feel when you believe in something if you put it to her that way.

Best of luck to you, IA.
 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
Wow. Absolute madness, but dangerous madness. You've received a lot of good advice here, IA, and the best is to keep the contact with your daughter (and son) regardless of their response. You keep telling 'em that you love them and will always be there for them no matter what. They won't forget it. Don't change your phone number.

Definitely get legal advice. As lots before me have pointed out, you do have rights and so does she (and he). Poor babes.

What I know is, life is long and no-one can predict how things change. So hold the faith.

If you need to vent more, PM me.

This is why Scn disgusts me. My heart goes out to you.

Petey
 

Illegal Alien

Patron with Honors
Hi first I want to say sorry to all on this board that I keep adding to this thread which is essentially a personal issue but to a degree disconnection affects us all and the most important thing is I know OSA reacts to what is put on this board.
Due to some over the top emails today I have commenced my investigation into my legal rights with regards my kids and Scientology influence over their actions.
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hi first I want to say sorry to all on this board that I keep adding to this thread which is essentially a personal issue but to a degree disconnection affects us all and the most important thing is I know OSA reacts to what is put on this board.
Due to some over the top emails today I have commenced my investigation into my legal rights with regards my kids and Scientology influence over their actions.

Dear IA,
I hope you will get your children back. Maybe you can use the following Essay to let your attorney understand how Hubbard trapped his slaves - in my opinion this could be very important in your case.


"A Sea Org member stays in the Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF), though he is treated more cruelly than any kidnapper could treat his victim. He is deprived of sleep, food, and the comfort of his family. He is thoroughly introverted into believing some Authority, who has convicted him of evils so deeply entrenched that he cannot be trusted with his liberty. He “knows” that this Authority, whom he trusts with his very eternity, will cure him, and that he must disclose his private criticisms that point to the evils that must be ripped out of his being. And so day after day he cleans the dumpsters, he submits to endless interrogations, and he runs around a pole to cure himself of those nameless evils. Then one day he escapes, still “knowing” that it is the evil within is telling him to run. He makes his escape anyway. He somehow finds a way to start a new life, though he is depressed and lonely and feels degraded. He eventually finds the courage to talk about the atrocities he experienced. He goes to the courts. And he sees the disbelief in the jury’s eyes: even if he was telling the truth about the RPF, why in God’s name did he submit to it in the first place? But he doesn’t know. He can only point to the atrocities. The jury is fed at every turn with lies about the Sea Org member’s past, and lies about their own crimes. Scientology points to their happy membership and twists the minds of the jury with convolutions that would make any sane man’s head spin. Scientology’s defense depends utterly upon continuing to hide their secret weapon. That weapon is transference."

Read the full great article written by Caroline Letkeman about Scientology: Soul Hackers here: http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/index...=915&Itemid=92 "

Best
Markus
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hi first I want to say sorry to all on this board that I keep adding to this thread which is essentially a personal issue but to a degree disconnection affects us all and the most important thing is I know OSA reacts to what is put on this board.
Due to some over the top emails today I have commenced my investigation into my legal rights with regards my kids and Scientology influence over their actions.

Good for you IA!! Your thread may be a personal issue for you but disconnection has affected so many here and so many in. Your posts help others on the board and those lurking. You have support and cheering on here. Please let us know of your progress!
Best of luck!
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Hi first I want to say sorry to all on this board that I keep adding to this thread which is essentially a personal issue but to a degree disconnection affects us all and the most important thing is I know OSA reacts to what is put on this board.
Due to some over the top emails today I have commenced my investigation into my legal rights with regards my kids and Scientology influence over their actions.

I am so glad you are looking into your legal rights! The fact that your daughter's passport requires your signature implies that you have strong parental rights already, so please let us know how it's going and if you need any research assistance on the matter.

Have you seen site on Scientology and their US religious visa applications, the documents compiled by a critic of scientology? Although your daughter's visa is not a religious one, you can get some insight into how immigration works in relation to Scientology and see the links to general information on visas.

http://www.exposescientology.com/visaresearch.html

Best wishes,

Mary
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
I would treat your daughter as you have been and keep that line of communication with her as open as possible.

You may request seeing her in person through the courts. I would exercise all possible rights that you have through the courts immediately if a letter to the cofs and your ex-wife does not illicit immediate action in your favor. You have let your rights be taken away and as far as I know only a court can do that. Scn. is criminal in this action and I'll betcha if you write a nice letter insisting on visitation with your daughter on a regular (as possible) basis or else you will be taking legal action, that the tides will turn to avoid this. Send it through an attorney.

I agree. Stop playing their game. Stop playing by Co$ rules which are designed to favor them.

And don't approve the passport. For all you know, the real reason for the passport is to get her to someplace like the Freewinds, from which neither parent may ever see her again.
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ohhhhh

Hi IA,

I give you my viewpoint and my 2 cents even if my sit is a little bit differente from yours.

My brother has disconnected from me since more than 4 years because of my getting sp declared. During those 4 years I have tried all what you may call "good roads and good weather" strategies. I tried to make him understand that I loved and supported him and his family even though he had disconnected, I have been polite and respectful in family reunions (basically accepting not to flap and not to talk to him), I bought present for him and his wife at christmas, I didn't natter about the church with my family, I didn't flap about him having disconnected etc, etc, etc.

The result? Zero. Nada. Nihil.

As you have been a scientologist yourself, you may probably understand that he REALLY thinks I am a suppressive element or that at least I have committed serious crimes against the church and/or perhaps I am under the influence of a very evil person around me.

And every day he doesn't talk to me, per the theory of cognitive dissonance, he comes to find further outpoints in me (to justify his decision).

So I decided I will change my strategy: I'll flap with my parents, I'll expose the truth, I will send him entheta. I am prettu certain that although short term he will hate me, in the long long term he will be thanking me.

We are going to take down the abusiveness of scientology. You have all my support and my hearth is with you.

Keep going soul mate. Never give up.

Sp Declared

Oh, SP Dec, I LIKE this /\ /\ - the change in behavior. What have you got to lose? NADA - Zero - Nil ! :thumbsup:

IA - as SP Dec has stated - Never give up.
It's a good fight. :yes:
 
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