A different view of the OT levels

[Isene]

For anyone who might care:

A radical new view of the upper Scientology levels; OK here goes…

BTW; Emma - what a total makeover! The crash resulted in something better.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Very interesting, I've not done any OT levels but I see where you're coming from.

By the way, I made a sculptural piece, on the curved outside I painted a couple, very detailed, and wrote a short story to illustrate the painting. These guys were totally out of my head, but they were real to me, I actually despised them both, the philanderer and the submissive one. A couple of days later I went to my bus stop and the philanderer was there, same old fashioned suit, the pens in the top pocket, same sort of tie and button down collar, dirty looking blond hair and Donald Rumsfeldt expression. But I did't hit him.

I can't say that I ever saw this guy before or after the one time.

I don't think I created him. Just a very odd co-incidence. Very odd!

 

[Panda Termint]

For anyone who might care:

A radical new view of the upper Scientology levels; OK here goes…

BTW; Emma - what a total makeover! The crash resulted in something better.

Yes, Geir, I find myself in agreement with your line of thinking on this subject. I have thought something quite similar to this for a while.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

... A radical new view of the upper Scientology levels; OK here goes… ...

I'm inclined to think your model is more or less similar to that of Mahayana Buddhism, or similar practices. Moreover, that those scientologists who didn't take "Hubbard's Paradigm" as gospel yet nevertheless reported some sort of benefit from 'upper level' auditing have adopted something similar as a working model. Thus, I don't take your comments as especially 'radical' except possibly in the sense that it doesn't align with a 'Classical Hubbard Worldview'.

Very nice statement of principles!


Mark A. Baker

 

[Hatshepsut]

I have experimented with running things from another's perspective. I could not determine if it was the right thing to do or not. I was on a maybe. I did notice that it was effective many times. Especially when running the core concepts of a GPM to the point where you could hold both opposing terminals or both anti-concepts in juxtaposition simultaneously. There is a release after a tension like satori where the invested energy you have in EACH viewpoint dissolves in the same instant.

I used to go to war with critical viewpoints that I felt or suspected that others had regarding my role in their environment. This was a work situation always where I had to keep matters under control. I always experienced after my ridiculous psychic battles with the opposing perspectives in others' space that there ended up being a PEACE. I was always so ashamed of having suspected mutiny. BUT, it always got better after the wrestling match. Duh.

 

[ethicsbait]

Did I get this right?

Isene
"If the theory behind the OT levels as laid out by LRH is true, then we would have a large number of beings turning up for auditing that were ready to run a very different process than the ordinary Bridge (as covered in OT VI material)"

Marildi
"I take it you don’t want to say what the theory is in the OT VI materials?

Isene
"There is a specific process to run on such beings. That would suffice for now."


Me
It looks to me like Isene is saying that on OT VI there is a datum that says that the BT’s one is freeing on OT level auditing will thereafter get bodies and show up for auditing in scientology orgs and he is calculating 200m at this time. Did I get that right?



What I don’t get Isene is you imply that it did not work by evidence of empty Orgs, yet later you say “I know the processes work, and I now think I know why”.

:confused2:

It seems to me that people who believe still have to jump through hoops to keep believing.

I am still and

 

[Mark A. Baker]

... BUT, it always got better after the wrestling match. Duh.

Ummm, you're talking about 'auditing' here, are you, Hat?

Possibly some sort of 'reach & withdraw'?


Mark A. Baker

---------- Post added at 11:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 AM ----------

Isene
"If the theory behind the OT levels as laid out by LRH is true, then we would have a large number of beings turning up for auditing that were ready to run a very different process than the ordinary Bridge (as covered in OT VI material)"

Marildi
"I take it you don’t want to say what the theory is in the OT VI materials?

Isene
"There is a specific process to run on such beings. That would suffice for now."


Me
It looks to me like Isene is saying that on OT VI there is a datum that says that the BT’s one is freeing on OT level auditing will thereafter get bodies and show up for auditing in scientology orgs and he is calculating 200m at this time. Did I get that right?



What I don’t get Isene is you imply that it did not work by evidence of empty Orgs, yet later you say “I know the processes work, and I now think I know why”.

:confused2:

It seems to me that people who believe still have to jump through hoops to keep believing.

I am still and

You are about 180 degrees out on your interpretation of Geir's comments.

I'm thinking you need to go back and re-read his blog entry only this time with your 'critical thinking cap' on.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Veda]

-snip-

Mark A. Baker

---------- Post added at 11:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 AM ----------



You are about 180 degrees out on your interpretation of Geir's comments.

I'm thinking you need to go back and re-read his blog entry only this time with your 'critical thinking cap' on.


Mark A. Baker

Maybe you should take your 'Scientology-thinking cap' off.

Geir is being deliberately vague. I suppose he doesn't want to "restimulate" anyone - or whatever.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Maybe you should take your Scientology-thinking cap off.

Ah, so you are no less delusional for having been absent the last few days, V. Sorry to hear that.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Dulloldfart]

"There is a specific process to run on such beings. That would suffice for now."

There must be someone on ESMB who isn't gonna be so coy. What is this process?

Paul

 

[Veda]

Ah, so you are no less delusional for having been absent the last few days, V. Sorry to hear that.


Mark A. Baker

No one is challenging your position as the world's most intelligent Scientologist, so lighten up on Ethicsbait, who's a new poster on ESMB, and has, already, gone further in becoming free of Scientology-think in a few weeks than you have in a few decades.

 

[degraded being]

You have to wait for the book. (really).

Suggested titles.

"Kool aid without Konstipation"
"What If....you really weren't mindfucked -hope for reality challenged."
"Scientology Without Scientology" - a free pair of Scientology googles with every book!

 

[Mystic]

I have discovered there is no valid view of the so-called "OT levels". I discovered that back in the 80s. Had to discover it several times as it's all hallucination and I was moving out of hallucinating the "OT levels" into subjective existence.

Talking to a rock is much, much more "real".

 

[Isene]

It looks to me like Isene is saying that on OT VI there is a datum that says that the BT’s one is freeing on OT level auditing will thereafter get bodies and show up for auditing in scientology orgs and he is calculating 200m at this time. Did I get that right?

No.

What I don’t get Isene is you imply that it did not work by evidence of empty Orgs, yet later you say “I know the processes work, and I now think I know why”.

That is not what I said or meant.

Here it is again: There is no reason to believe that all the estimated 200 million would show up in a body and even less chance that they would show up in an Org - But - one would see at least a few thousand examples that would show up and would get C/S'ed on the mentioned process. That is, IF the theory was right - which I believe it is not.

 

[Veda]

No.



That is not what I said or meant.

Here it is again: There is no reason to believe that all the estimated 200 million would show up in a body and even less chance that they would show up in an Org - But - one would see at least a few thousand examples that would show up and would get C/S'ed on the mentioned process. That is, IF the theory was right - which I believe it is not.

It's too bad that you must be so vague and can't simply reveal the process to which you're referring.

As of now, you're trying to get answers to solve some problem for yourself, but are unwilling to be specific.

There's a chapter called 'Are you Haunted?' in the book 'Messiah or Madman?' Reading it might help you.

 

[Hatshepsut]

It's possible that those who have been around the block and through all the hoops would choose NOT to experience it all again. They possibly might deduce from their 'round trip' that there are still a LOT of things unknown, and only a few solutions really as workable as they'd hoped.

I am thinking here too about all of the past life Buddhists that started pouring into Scientology in the early 80s. It was phenomenal. Why did they come into the subject. What were they hoping to achieve?

They all seemed to gravitate to the same AACs at one time. I cite Miami and Santa Barbara. What was causing this coalescence?

I have to think that the goal was not so much to triumph over the cycle of birth and death as being here again and being very aware of one's constancy would have softened the doggedness of the task.

The coincidence of viewpoint where the being has become one with the entire composite is the thing that is being chiseled away at. He gets back his own precious viewpoint as 'himself'. I was reading CBR's Tech Briefing #4 last week. Captain Bill was going into what happens mechanically when a person goes clear and why it is that a person might not indefinitely stay in that state. He also went into how we have created viewpoints of dimension capable of running lives or organisms or machinery and how it can return to the source or continue on independently when the task is finished. Now that's a stretch. I smirked and kept reading. By the end it did not seem too far of a stretch.

Most Scientologists had more than a few common goals. If those ambitions are found to be not realistic in some cases it is not likely many folks would do an assumption on a new life in order to achieve ideals they've become disillusioned with.

It is my opinion that this has been the biggest tragedy of the of the C of S.

I had always felt that there were people waiting for me to come back with some solutions. I had good recall of what I was supposed to be on about when I came into this life. I took my own good time about it. But I was here to solve problems relating to the mind and entrapment and I KNEW this.

Another phenomena noticeable today are all the beings gravitating toward Falun Gong. There seems to always be waves that rise and fall along a similar path.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

No one is challenging your position as the world's most intelligent Scientologist, so lighten up on Ethicsbait, who's a new poster on ESMB, and has, already, gone further in becoming free of Scientology-think in a few weeks than you have in a few decades.

...

It's too bad that you must be so vague and can't simply reveal the process to which you're referring.

As of now, you're trying to get answers to solve some problem for yourself, but are unwilling to be specific.

There's a chapter called 'Are you Haunted?' in the book 'Messiah or Madman?' Reading it might help you.

Hmmmmm, with a few minor adjustments ....

No one is challenging your position as the world's most unrelenting anti-Scientologist, so lighten up on Isene, who's a relatively new poster on ESMB, and has, already, gone further in becoming free of Scientology-think in a few weeks than you have in a few decades.

Mark A. Baker

 

[Dulloldfart]

Without wishing to intrude into Lord Veda Versus the MarkAB, Part 59, I also find Geir's vagueness annoying. If he wishes to beat about the bush on his own blog, fair enough. But this is ESMB!

Paul

 

[Veda]

Responding to post 16.

Ah yes, the past life Buddhists. As I recall, these were folks who decided that hey had "gone Clear" as disciples of the Buddha (who most believed had been Hubbard, so it was OK to have "gone Clear" that way, in other words, one was still "ON Source."

When Hubbard decided to play his "Dianetic Clear"-angle so as to drastically and suddenly increase the number of Clears (for PR purposes. His "image" and all that) and, also, to pull people out of Missions and move them, with their check books and credit cards, "up lines" where he had access to their money, a tape was being played where Hubbard talked about "making Clears in 1947." There must have been several thousand people attesting to having been audited by Ron to Clear in 1947. The next large group were the "I went Clear as a disciple of Ron when Ron was the Buddha 2,500 years ago" folks.

For a short time, at the early stages of the "Dianetic Clear" fiasco, these two types of "Clears" had become quite a fad. Then Hubbard decided that the only way people can "go Clear" was by doing the Clearing Course or by Dianetics, and that was it. (Past life Clears were still OK as long as it was Dianetics.) Hubbard even went on to disdainfully denounce the idea that one can "go Clear" through "garbage eating" (as a Buddhist monk), so many people who were giddy at the thought of being "Ron's (as the Buddha) earliest Clears" were suddenly "invalidated." This created a fair amount of confusion. Some left organized Scientology and sought "validation" elsewhere.

Back to ths idea of Orgs being flooded with former "BTs": Come to think of it, they'd probably make great Scientologists. They'd be so grateful: "I'd still be Joe Schmo's knee cap if it hadn't been for Ron. Thank you, thank you, thank you!! Ron!!!"

 

[Isene]

It's too bad that you must be so vague and can't simply reveal the process to which you're referring.

As of now, you're trying to get answers to solve some problem for yourself, but are unwilling to be specific.

There's a chapter called 'Are you Haunted?' in the book 'Messiah or Madman?' Reading it might help you.

The material is freely available. I am surprised you could not answer this yourself; "Clearing BTs"