Aaron Saxton, general response to public re SO
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EP - Ethics Particle
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OHTEEATE
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At 6:15 of part one of my video shot in 2007 in Clearwater, I say the Sea Org is a cult.
http://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...ndersons+story+&ei=utf-8&n=21&tnr=21&y=Search
and I agree 100% with Aaron Saxton that the target should be the Sea Org, and not Scientology. The Sea Org was partly a vehicle so that LRH could hide out, and it worked quite well for him. Aaron gives a much better description than I did, of WHY it is a cult, and how dangerous it is, and why.
If you attack Scientology, you are going to be worn out and exhausted, and they will laugh at you. Wrong target. Aaron is completely correct that the Sea Org needs to be stopped cold.
http://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...ndersons+story+&ei=utf-8&n=21&tnr=21&y=Search
and I agree 100% with Aaron Saxton that the target should be the Sea Org, and not Scientology. The Sea Org was partly a vehicle so that LRH could hide out, and it worked quite well for him. Aaron gives a much better description than I did, of WHY it is a cult, and how dangerous it is, and why.
If you attack Scientology, you are going to be worn out and exhausted, and they will laugh at you. Wrong target. Aaron is completely correct that the Sea Org needs to be stopped cold.
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Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
^^^ I agree! ^^^
Iknowtoomuch
Gold Meritorious Patron
How would you stop the Sea Org and not stop Scientology??
Veda
Sponsor
It might be a good idea to first describe what "Scientology" is - as designed by L. Ron Hubbard.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=19183&postcount=1
HCO existed before the Sea Org, as did the secret dangerous and vital to your survival and well being Clearing Course, as did the Fair Game Law, including "find or manufacture enough threat" (1960), and "ruin utterly" (1955), as did Disconnection, as did the SP Doctrine, as did 'Keeping Scientology Working'.
There is a danger in being tripped up by semantics.
Scientology is a cult; but it's a cult in a series of wrappers, the outer wrapper, called the "Church of Scientology," with its "Creed," etc., is what is presented to the outside world.
But I understand what Aaron is saying, and essentially agree with him, although I would say it somewhat differently.
byte301
Crusader
Yes, I agree with him too. But drying up those roots will kill the tree eventually. When we stop raw meat from going in we are killing the "tap root" imo. When we expose narconon, CCHR, etc. we are killing the roots directly attached to the tap root. And it will continue to go up the tree.
We have to keep protesting scientology because that's what the public sees and knows about. They wouldn't get the significance of the Sea Org since it's scientology that's splattered all over the place.
But I agree the SoCal protestors should hit the Hollywood Guarantee building hard.
We have to keep protesting scientology because that's what the public sees and knows about. They wouldn't get the significance of the Sea Org since it's scientology that's splattered all over the place.
But I agree the SoCal protestors should hit the Hollywood Guarantee building hard.
thetanic
Gold Meritorious Patron
Absolutely.
Though also getting rid of the org staff that feed the Sea Org is necessary, of course.
I'd like to see more signs relating to things that might get SO, staff, and public out.
Anonymous: Scientology's Qual Division
Out Grade 0?
When did you last hug your extended family? (for SO)
Ones I've seen that I love:
Scientology, you pulled us in
It's worth realizing that the average Anon protest sign is as inconceivable to the average Scn as the worst of the Sea Org stories are to the average person on the street.
Anonymous has done well on helping keep people out and continuing to raise awareness about the problems. Staff have left, no question, sometimes even during raids. One of the things the staff are told is that Anons are paid to protest, so this sign might work:
We're not paid to be here either
dchoiceisalwaysrs
Gold Meritorious Patron
a lot to be done
On the second video Aaron states starting around 4:08 that the SO
"....owns over a 100 other entities that seemingly think are innocent and have got everything to do with control....".and @ 5:05."..which is running rings around government right now...."
Who can provide co-oberating evidence or links to this.
On the second video Aaron states starting around 4:08 that the SO
"....owns over a 100 other entities that seemingly think are innocent and have got everything to do with control....".and @ 5:05."..which is running rings around government right now...."
Who can provide co-oberating evidence or links to this.
Blue Spirit
Silver Meritorious Patron
Centers of Evil
The HGB, DM, the "SP Hall", Freewinds and Flag are the centers of EVIL.
The HGB, DM, the "SP Hall", Freewinds and Flag are the centers of EVIL.
Smilla
Ordinary Human
It's a cult within a cult.
Thrak
Gold Meritorious Patron
What occurs to me about this and other stuff going on is it's like blowback. That's like when the CIA went into Afghanistan to train forces to give the Russians problems and decades later you had Sept. 11. The biggest problem in scio-land is the ex staff and mainly ex-SO. I agree with Aaron totally. I've always been confused about the duality of scn. It's an interesting view that scn and the SO are totally different things and that the SO only uses scn to achieve it's aims. I remember Jesse Prince saying something similar in that scn is a religion but the SO is a cult. Just never occurred that the SO was using scn.
Veda
Sponsor
Hubbard was *using* (the good, or benign, parts of) Scientology long before the Sea Org existed. It's using *good* and *goodness* to accomplish self-serving, amoral or destructive ends.
This *using* is built-in to Scientology and Hubbardism from the earliest days.
One might say that the good parts of Scientology, by themselves, would not constitute a cult, but that Scientology - the total package - is a cult.
Saying otherwise will confuse people who never heard of the Sea Org and have only heard about Scientology.
That doesn't mean that Sea Org (and Miscavige) locations are not the best targets, they are. Strategically speaking.
But how it's described needs to be thought through, IMO.
This *using* is built-in to Scientology and Hubbardism from the earliest days.
One might say that the good parts of Scientology, by themselves, would not constitute a cult, but that Scientology - the total package - is a cult.
Saying otherwise will confuse people who never heard of the Sea Org and have only heard about Scientology.
That doesn't mean that Sea Org (and Miscavige) locations are not the best targets, they are. Strategically speaking.
But how it's described needs to be thought through, IMO.
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dchoiceisalwaysrs
Gold Meritorious Patron
Bump
anon2487
Patron with Honors
I've found Aaron's videos really informative, and I hope that other former SO start speaking out publicly soon. Now is definitely the time.
However, whilst I totally get what Aaron's saying in this video, educating people about the CofS is no small task in itself.
Unless someone already has a fairly good grasp of the subject, then there's just too steep a learning curve involved, to make targeting the SO specifically a viable strategy.
Highlighting the abuses, and human rights violations is a much more practical way to achieve pretty much the same end, because there's no education involved: people already understand the rights and the wrongs in these areas, and shining a light on specific crimes is all that's really necessary.
The only practical means that I can see of targeting the SO specifically as an entity, is through painstaking documentation of the numerous breaches of corporate governance that occur, as a result of the SO being the CofS's command and control structure.
Interesting perspective though nonetheless.
However, whilst I totally get what Aaron's saying in this video, educating people about the CofS is no small task in itself.
Unless someone already has a fairly good grasp of the subject, then there's just too steep a learning curve involved, to make targeting the SO specifically a viable strategy.
Highlighting the abuses, and human rights violations is a much more practical way to achieve pretty much the same end, because there's no education involved: people already understand the rights and the wrongs in these areas, and shining a light on specific crimes is all that's really necessary.
The only practical means that I can see of targeting the SO specifically as an entity, is through painstaking documentation of the numerous breaches of corporate governance that occur, as a result of the SO being the CofS's command and control structure.
Interesting perspective though nonetheless.