Achievements

[Feral]

Great post Happy Girl,

What's more I agree, after 15 years on Solo Nots Mrs Feral and I don't know what we got.

 

[Carmel]

I was responding to bold line. You did not mention that said conversation was prior to 1982 LOL

I don't believe that your response was applicable to my origination at all!

And I'm confused (must be in my dumb broad mode )! What conversation prior to 82? I was meaning that after C/Sing in the org for 6 months, and working with OT's and auditing, that it became clear to me that scn wasn't all that it was cracked up to be:
Workable? Yes!
Helpful? Yes!
Life changing for one and all? No! Definately not!

Hey, funny to be debating on the board for a change instead of on the phone! (and I reckon it was a silly call of mine, ta try and give up nicotine a couple of days ago - I think I'll revert, or I'll end up getting banned for being an all out cranky bitch ).

 

[Thrak]

You sound like me and my hubby! Except I'm taking your hubby's viewpoint.

The conclusion I finally came to, for myself, was that I had many wins in Scn, meaning I got the expected "EPs," I felt really good, I felt that I had accomplished something, and maybe I did actually change in some way that made me a better person. But nothing about my behavior demonstrated that I was better or had any increased abilities. One day, long after going OT, my brother said to me, "you're the expert at communication, so how come you can't communicate to [our stepmother]?" (She was a miserable person that we both avoided.) I just had no answer to that. I had done my first TR drills with my brother also (he never got in), and had a ball doing them. But I was unable to handle his origination. It's like I had all these wins and standard EPs on everything I did, and had fun, and it was this great adventure, but I was NOT becoming more able in life. I was not more successful than my peers. And yet, I was winning left and right! I was going Clear and OT! I was having a ball! Then, back in real life, I was just the same as everybody else and the same as I had always been.

When 9/11 happened I told my boss and office manager that I had to take off to go back to NY - I sounded just like TC, only Scios know how to help out in a disaster. My boss looked at me like I was from another planet and said, "That's bullshit!" I was mortified!! Not because she didn't believe me, but because I felt so humiliated and inadequate I wanted to sink through the floor. I KNEW we were the only ones that could help, so why did I feel so humiliated that I was challenged about it? That was the first and last time I ever "proselytized." I still cringe when I think about that moment, because it came straight out of my indoctrinated mind, not at all from the real me.

Honestly, the only conclusion I am left with is that Scn made me more able to mock up difficulties and problems to handle, convincing me that I had all those difficulties and problems that I probably didn't, and then made me more able to handle those difficulties that I didn't really have. This put me under mind control, rather than really making me better. Whatever abilities I had when I entered Scn are the same abilities I have now, and Scn tended to invalidate them rather than improve them. Actually, the higher I got on the Bridge, the more I began to lose my native abilities! (which returned once I got out from under the mind fuck).

I have really gone round and round about this. How could I have felt like I was getting so much better, when I really wasn't? :confused2: If your abilities actually improved using Scn, then you wouldn't come to this conclusion. Maybe Scn really did make you a better, more able person. But it didn't me.

Now that I am out, I have increased my abilities, and I know it, and see the results of my increased abilities. I have always been very un-mechanical, and recently I have developed improved mechanical abilities that have just wowed me. That never happened while I was in Scn. I never just developed an ability out of the blue like that. And that happened just living and learning and exploring new things.

Yes it's kind of interesting and I think about it a lot. The more I think about it, I don't really see scn as just one thing. To me it's kind of a mind fuck sandwich. Like the meat of it can actually taste pretty good but the bread is pure shit. I also think you could fill in the blank with the sandwich or "tech". I mean you could put anything there like pure Freudian psychotherapy or Dr. Phil anything you wanted. And successes with that impress people and win them over but then eventually the smell just gets too bad.

 

[Carmel]

You sound like me and my hubby! Except I'm taking your hubby's viewpoint.

The conclusion I finally came to, for myself, was that I had many wins in Scn, meaning I got the expected "EPs," I felt really good, I felt that I had accomplished something, and maybe I did actually change in some way that made me a better person. But nothing about my behavior demonstrated that I was better or had any increased abilities. One day, long after going OT, my brother said to me, "you're the expert at communication, so how come you can't communicate to [our stepmother]?" (She was a miserable person that we both avoided.) I just had no answer to that. I had done my first TR drills with my brother also (he never got in), and had a ball doing them. But I was unable to handle his origination. It's like I had all these wins and standard EPs on everything I did, and had fun, and it was this great adventure, but I was NOT becoming more able in life. I was not more successful than my peers. And yet, I was winning left and right! I was going Clear and OT! I was having a ball! Then, back in real life, I was just the same as everybody else and the same as I had always been.

When 9/11 happened I told my boss and office manager that I had to take off to go back to NY - I sounded just like TC, only Scios know how to help out in a disaster. My boss looked at me like I was from another planet and said, "That's bullshit!" I was mortified!! Not because she didn't believe me, but because I felt so humiliated and inadequate I wanted to sink through the floor. I KNEW we were the only ones that could help, so why did I feel so humiliated that I was challenged about it? That was the first and last time I ever "proselytized." I still cringe when I think about that moment, because it came straight out of my indoctrinated mind, not at all from the real me.

Honestly, the only conclusion I am left with is that Scn made me more able to mock up difficulties and problems to handle, convincing me that I had all those difficulties and problems that I probably didn't, and then made me more able to handle those difficulties that I didn't really have. This put me under mind control, rather than really making me better. Whatever abilities I had when I entered Scn are the same abilities I have now, and Scn tended to invalidate them rather than improve them. Actually, the higher I got on the Bridge, the more I began to lose my native abilities! (which returned once I got out from under the mind fuck).

I have really gone round and round about this. How could I have felt like I was getting so much better, when I really wasn't? :confused2: If your abilities actually improved using Scn, then you wouldn't come to this conclusion. Maybe Scn really did make you a better, more able person. But it didn't me.

Now that I am out, I have increased my abilities, and I know it, and see the results of my increased abilities. I have always been very un-mechanical, and recently I have developed improved mechanical abilities that have just wowed me. That never happened while I was in Scn. I never just developed an ability out of the blue like that. And that happened just living and learning and exploring new things.

I understand HG - if I was in your shoes, I'd probably feel the same! But you and I have had different histories and different experiences in scn.

I'm so glad that you are doing as well as you are now, after all that you went through! You are a delight!

 

[Feral]

I may have misunderstood, in which case my witty assertions were wasted. I did think you were saying your husband was trying to tell you that you may have gotten to where you got without the tech, I assumed as you said he got cranky that you would argue, so I sarcastically gave you an argument to use.

I don't believe that your response was applicable to my origination at all!

And I'm confused (must be in my dumb broad mode )! What conversation prior to 82? I was meaning that after C/Sing in the org for 6 months, and working with OT's and auditing, that it became clear to me that scn wasn't all that it was cracked up to be:
Workable? Yes!
Helpful? Yes!
Life changing for one and all? No! Definately not!

Hey, funny to be debating on the board for a change instead of on the phone! (and I reckon it was a silly call of mine, ta try and give up nicotine a couple of days ago - I think I'll revert, or I'll end up getting banned for being an all out cranky bitch ).

 

[MarkWI]

[...] With all this past life stuff and cause over mest, OT levels, where is all the lost tech from eons ago found by rediscovering through scn? Shouldn't we now be seeing a nobel prize scn for outstanding discovery in the sciences or physics? [...]

I'm still waiting to see the 'Fac. One' killer ray machine gun ...

​

taken from

 

[Feral]

Now, THAT is great fiction!!

 

[Carmel]

I may have misunderstood, in which case my witty assertions were wasted. I did think you were saying your husband was trying to tell you that you may have gotten to where you got without the tech, i assumed as you said he got cranky that you would ague, so I sarcastically gave you an argument to use.

Oh crikey Feral, we must be on different planets tonight!

I was saying that Tim tries to tell me that I would have gotten to where I did, without the tech, the policy and the staff experience. He doesn't know that, but speaks about it, like it is fact - just like you do!

When I walked into that org for the first time, I was pathetic! I was hardly literate, aimless, fearful, lacking confidence big time, over sensitive to the hilt, cowardly, and sad!

Within two years - I had courage, I could read and write, I had goals, I had self confidence and my emotions weren't wrapping me around a fucking pole! I was a different person. I understood so much more and I saw outside my own pathetic world. I was helping people in and outside of scn. - I had a whole new brand new life, with much achievement in a relatively very short space of time. After that point, it continued to develop - and although only a big fish in a little or tiny pond (outside of scn), I have achieved much. I don't believe I would have or could have, without my scn experience and what I gained as a result of the whole thing (including all the crap that I endured for years).

I achieved much relative to where I was at - to deny that, is ridiculous! To say that I may have gotten there in other ways....well maybe! However, maybe I would have ended up dead, or still in the circumstances I was in, in '79....they weren't the best as you know!

The CofS is rife with ludicrous and false claims - but that doesn't mean that personal achievement isn't or rather 'wasn't' possible from what it had to offer.

We've all had different experiences and scenarios. It's my opinion that if one gets involved in scn, then chances are they will go south rather than north - for sure. But I got in some years ago now, and I wouldn't be without what I got from it as a result of doing so.

 

[HappyGirl]

Great post Happy Girl,
What's more I agree, after 15 years on Solo Nots Mrs Feral and I don't know what we got.

Thank you. Hahahaha! You got this board and my

I understand HG - if I was in your shoes, I'd probably feel the same! But you and I have had different histories and different experiences in scn.

I'm so glad that you are doing as well as you are now, after all that you went through! You are a delight!

Aaaw! Thanks! Can you give me an example from your different history and experience of Scn really making someone better? I don't mean to be a wise-ass, I mean I really would like to know.

I'm still waiting to see the 'Fac. One' killer ray machine gun ...

You guys (and TT too) all made my night tonight!

 

[degraded being]

If I did not "do" scientology I would not be as happy as I am today.

If I did not do scio I would not be as capable as I am today.

If I did not do scio I would not have the ability to do "x" today.

If I did not do scio I would not be as contented as I am today.

If I did not do scio I would not be able to interract with others as well as I can today.

If I did not do scio I would not have as much money as I have today.

If I did not do scio I would not be as good a parent as I am today.

Is that, (all or any one of them) true?
Can you really know that it's true.?

If it wasn't for me scio would not have as money as it has today.

If It wasn't for me "other" scios would not be as happy as they are today.

If it wasn't for me scios would not be as capable as they are today.

If it wasn't for my education scio would not be as wealthy as it is today.

If it wasn't for what my parents taught me I wouldn't been able to help so many scios to improve their communication.

If it wasn't for my geneosity and selflessness the org I worked at would have had problems surviving.

If it wasn't for my university degree I wouldn't have fully realized what it means to be capable and professional in my job, which gives me money, security, a sense of accomplishment, and intellectual skills to REALLY think about what may or may not be truthful or beneficial.

If it wasn't for the fact that I keep meeting really good people who have capabilities and values which I like I .........etc.

The "I" here is me (DB) in part, but applies to anyone who see similarities to themselves. How much is rhetorical and how much just is things as they are? I don't know.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

(and I reckon it was a silly call of mine, ta try and give up nicotine a couple of days ago - I think I'll revert, or I'll end up getting banned for being an all out cranky bitch ).

ah ... that makes sense ... I thought you seemed a bit different ... maybe try these instead for a while!







Good luck though ... its really worth it in the end.

 

[Carmel]

ah ... that makes sense ... I thought you seemed a bit different ... maybe try these instead for a while!







Good luck though ... its really worth it in the end.

Thanks ITYIWT.

I'm gonna leave that challenge for a while. It was stupid of me to think that I could face it now without going into the usual 'hate everything and anything mode' and without going into the mode of making mountains out of mole hills.

I'll try again soon, but not right now - too much on my plate at present.

You're a good one for sure - Cheers!

Carmel