can illogical behavior prove the validity of past lives?

[Mimsey Borogrove]

I was thinking about this while the traffic was at a crawl due to a wreck ahead on the harbor freeway - I was thinking about the mom that got shot in DC and my own erratic behavior in the past. Unexplained behavior really.

I have always had a problem with police - ignoring their commands, walking towards them when they tell me to stop. I don't even know why I do it. When RFK was campaigning in my home town, me perhaps a tweener, stood in the road, making his limo drive around me - me who knew nothing about who was the president, paid an absolute zero of attention to the news of the world, had this protesters mentality emerge as if from nowhere, and I was damned if I was going to move for him.

I tried to write screen plays - and my head got all messed up, not about the subject matter of my stories, but the business of it, networking, taking classes, the antagonism of the secondary role a writer plays.

The things I could do easily. I was fooling around, trying to fix a car and someone commented that I looked like a person who knew what they were doing, but couldn't recall exactly how to fix it. Some things like science I pick up so fast - not so with math and grammar - phew - even after doing the Key to Life course, I still struggle.

When I saw a Life Magazine photo spread on operations, showing opened torso's and the guts, and my extreme reaction, and my unwillingness to look at mummies, but not minding freshly dead people - weird.

My point is - were did these things come from? Why did I seek to block Kennedy at such a young age? My young life seemed almost like a person recovering from some sort of trauma - I was way out in daydream land, and not connecting with reality. And yet I recognize a politician the first time I see his limo coming my way?

Kinda like icebergs from the past invading my current life and moving me in directions I find amazing.

This girl had head trauma and she goes all weird in the nations capitol. I don't wonder at all. Not a bit.

Perhaps this is all the proof one needs they have had past lives. Am I alone in this, have you had similar experiences?


Mimsey

 

[Bea Kiddo]

My own opinion is that past lives probably do exist. I just don't think they have as much weight in ones current life as what Scn believes they do.

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

Interesting Mimsey. But I dunno. My opinion is that based solely what you have stated, that would not be adequate proof. However, being Open minded Type something PTS....like most inquisitive people..would say...check into it a little deeper. Well even a lot deeper. Something akin to what Dulloldfart does, who I find anything BUT dull.
So many possibilities. So many aspects to perceive, so many strings to pull, so many theories to postulate, and so many tests and retests to be done.

Have fun exploring and good luck on narrowing the channel. Let me know if what you discover corroborates the Multi-Universe Theory.

Cheers.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Perhaps this is all the proof one needs they have had past lives.

Not really. But it is tending in that direction as opposed to the other way. And if there have been past lives, then there will probably be future ones too.

Paul

 

[MrNobody]

One question: If I've had one or more past lives, why is it that I had to learn every little bit I know today from scratch?

I must have been a complete imbecile in all my previous incarnations...

 

[shanic89]

If we are to just answer the title of the thread it would be a resounding no. Proof would need to be attained through a predicted and then provable series of events, repeatedly.

The brain is an incredible complex electro chemical organ. It is astounding that it functions coherently more often than not. What some may see as illogical behaviour may actually be logical when viewed with the acquired knowledge and perspective of the subject. Or even when reviewing or own odd behaviour at times, it can be explained by environmental and physical situations.

Sometimes, to put it simply, the brain can get its wires crossed, or temporarily overload.

 

[Bea Kiddo]

One question: If I've had one or more past lives, why is it that I had to learn every little bit I know today from scratch?

I must have been a complete imbecile in all my previous incarnations...

Because you are being implanted between each life to forget!!!

 

[degraded being]

I was thinking about this while the traffic was at a crawl due to a wreck ahead on the harbor freeway - I was thinking about the mom that got shot in DC and my own erratic behavior in the past. Unexplained behavior really.

I have always had a problem with police - ignoring their commands, walking towards them when they tell me to stop. I don't even know why I do it. When RFK was campaigning in my home town, me perhaps a tweener, stood in the road, making his limo drive around me - me who knew nothing about who was the president, paid an absolute zero of attention to the news of the world, had this protesters mentality emerge as if from nowhere, and I was damned if I was going to move for him.

I tried to write screen plays - and my head got all messed up, not about the subject matter of my stories, but the business of it, networking, taking classes, the antagonism of the secondary role a writer plays.

The things I could do easily. I was fooling around, trying to fix a car and someone commented that I looked like a person who knew what they were doing, but couldn't recall exactly how to fix it. Some things like science I pick up so fast - not so with math and grammar - phew - even after doing the Key to Life course, I still struggle.

When I saw a Life Magazine photo spread on operations, showing opened torso's and the guts, and my extreme reaction, and my unwillingness to look at mummies, but not minding freshly dead people - weird.

My point is - were did these things come from? Why did I seek to block Kennedy at such a young age? My young life seemed almost like a person recovering from some sort of trauma - I was way out in daydream land, and not connecting with reality. And yet I recognize a politician the first time I see his limo coming my way?

Kinda like icebergs from the past invading my current life and moving me in directions I find amazing.

This girl had head trauma and she goes all weird in the nations capitol. I don't wonder at all. Not a bit.

Perhaps this is all the proof one needs they have had past lives. Am I alone in this, have you had similar experiences?


Mimsey

Re: can illogical behavior prove the validity of past lives?

Zen answer. You are illogical NOW.

 

[Dulloldfart]

One question: If I've had one or more past lives, why is it that I had to learn every little bit I know today from scratch?

Per Newton's research (see the Lives Between Lives thread) the immortal bit of you has a home in the Spirit world. When it is time for a stint on Earth (or some other place to do it) then you sort of split your essence between the, er, kingdom of heaven, and a body down here, starting several months before birth. It takes several years to integrate the soul-bit-down-here with the growing child so no instant walk-ins. So there's the human mind, which has a limited view of things and dies with the body, and the incorporeal bit (soul etc) which doesn't, although there is a memory block that one agrees to. And the two minds often get very confused over identity issues, and very conflicted over differing goals; sometimes the two are compatible and sometimes not. And it is all by design, not a random roll of the dice, uncomfortable as that may appear.

Don't ask me why it's apparently set up that way as Newton never got that question answered.

But I can maybe give a clue from my own personal experiences of maybe "knowing" this (I think I understand what Newton wrote and I think this very brief summary is accurate as far as it goes, with lots of details I have left out). I cannot KNOW this is true, of course, but for the want of anything better I'll accept it for now. So my clue? Accepting this scenario gives one a TOTALLY different view on life here on Earth, basically the idea that whatever happens "down here," even total planetary obliteration, it's all nothing in the grand scheme of things. And that's nothing on a personal basis, not just nothing on some sort of cosmic basis where what does a few billion deaths mean? No, it's nothing in terms of there might be a bit of temporary pain or discomfort or whatever, but it really IS like a video game with a reset button. No hell, no implant stations, but milk and honey and wall-to-wall virgins (well, not really) from here to eternity.

-----

I don't expect this to change anyone's mind. But it is simply offered as an answer to the question of why one is born not knowing shit. If one gets to believe deep down that this IS a video game with a reset button it changes the whole damn thing. So maybe that's why it is set up that way, so that one (the immortal soul bit) willingly comes into the world with blocked off memories. Hubbard said it's from implant stations because that's the paranoid way he swings. But it seems not. Believing in the one-life thing and so on gives one more ambition maybe to accomplish whatever it is one is here to do, rather than just lie on the cosmic couch having fun all the time because video games? They're not important, are they?

Heh.

Paul

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

One question: If I've had one or more past lives, why is it that I had to learn every little bit I know today from scratch?

Because you are being implanted between each life to forget!!!

That is what, in a way I am implying, there is a lack of details to draw from, but there are these memes that are carried over.

Like the RFK bit - or the cops - I have an antagonism towards them that could have sprung from past life trauma, but I am not recalling the specific lives or circumstances of the trauma, but I still act on the meme / postulate / intention that sprung from it.

See? Mimsey

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Paul - did you see my other thread on Pete Townsand's exteriorization? It reminded me of what you said about Newton. Mimsey

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?33368-Pete-Townsend-s-exteriorization

 

[Dulloldfart]

Paul - did you see my other thread on Pete Townsand's exteriorization? It reminded me of what you said about Newton. Mimsey

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?33368-Pete-Townsend-s-exteriorization

Yeah, I saw it before. I didn't offer an answer to your question (whose voice?) as I didn't have any answer other than a blind guess for that exact scenario.

I'll give a personal anecdote which I immediately thought of but didn't post then as it is similar but not what you asked. At university around 1969 I did about 20 LSD trips, almost all pleasant, ranging from small amounts with small effects to large amounts. The "unpleasant" one was a very large amount, where the effects came on very quickly and were very pronounced. After 30 minutes of it being somewhat unpleasant I suddenly seemed to be "exterior," could hear a friend (Mick) talking through walls hundreds of feet away knocking on doors (asking for some phenobarbitone for me) and similar. At that point I was calm, serene etc etc and it wasn't a problem any more.

But one thing made an impression on me. I thought this exact thought: "I wonder how Paul is getting on?" And I sort of went back into Paul's mind (and dear Paul was still freaking out and very uncomfortable), so I ducked right back out again. And my friend Mick scored some sedative and played his guitar gently for me for an hour or so (which was very nice of him but completely unnecessary now), then I went to sleep and it all wore off by the time I woke up 8 hours or so later.

I can't say that back in 1969 I had a clear idea of what was going on, but it made me amenable to the topic in later studies.

Paul

 

[Terril park]

Yeah, I saw it before. I didn't offer an answer to your question (whose voice?) as I didn't have any answer other than a blind guess for that exact scenario.

I'll give a personal anecdote which I immediately thought of but didn't post then as it is similar but not what you asked. At university around 1969 I did about 20 LSD trips, almost all pleasant, ranging from small amounts with small effects to large amounts. The "unpleasant" one was a very large amount, where the effects came on very quickly and were very pronounced. After 30 minutes of it being somewhat unpleasant I suddenly seemed to be "exterior," could hear a friend (Mick) talking through walls hundreds of feet away knocking on doors (asking for some phenobarbitone for me) and similar. At that point I was calm, serene etc etc and it wasn't a problem any more.

But one thing made an impression on me. I thought this exact thought: "I wonder how Paul is getting on?" And I sort of went back into Paul's mind (and dear Paul was still freaking out and very uncomfortable), so I ducked right back out again. And my friend Mick scored some sedative and played his guitar gently for me for an hour or so (which was very nice of him but completely unnecessary now), then I went to sleep and it all wore off by the time I woke up 8 hours or so later.

I can't say that back in 1969 I had a clear idea of what was going on, but it made me amenable to the topic in later studies.

Paul

Ah! Clearly a plant, not just one but 20 or so LSD trips.

This is behind the stirling effort to create a twenty first century univeral
and infallible auditor!

Well done sir!

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Paul, I always find stories about exteriorization interesting. Like when this non-scientologist told me he was asleep and was outside of his body near the ceiling - suddenly he realized the mirror on the ceiling was falling, instantly he rolled his body out of bed and the mirror shattered where he had been laying seconds before. That has nothing to do with the OP per se, altho it has an element of premonition or foreknowledge in it.

The extended hearing /telepathy aspect of the exteriorization how cool. Reminds me of a friend who started seeing through buildings in 3D Xray "vision" after a sudden unexpected severe emotional trauma.

The "how is Paul doing?" bit. In a way it makes me think of a parallel - My use of a computer. Each one has a different personality - like my laptop with XP, the other with Win 7 and my desk top with Win 7 pro. Why not human personalities? Why just exteriorize from the body, why not from the personality as well?

Thanks for the cool story!

Mimsey

 

[MrNobody]

<snip>
Believing in the one-life thing and so on gives one more ambition maybe to accomplish whatever it is one is here to do, rather than just lie on the cosmic couch having fun all the time because video games? They're not important, are they?

Heh.

Paul

Thanks Paul, for this interesting post, which I've read completely, although I've snipped most of it.

As I've occasionally mentioned, I'm a simple guy and I like my life simple as well. Past lives, future lives, lives-between-life-lives, afterlife, etherial life, spirit life, life in other dimensions, and so on, has nothing to do with my life in the here and now, and I refuse to stare at carrots which I cannot even see, let alone reach.

I live my life here, in this world, right now and I try to make it a good life. By good life I don't mean a quest to reach divine wisdom, intellectual heights, infinite enlightenment, great wealth or whatever. Just a simple, modest life which I can just enjoy and occasionally do my part in trying to make this world a better place.

I don't even have the time to learn everything there is to learn at this point in time, to thinking about reaching for even higher hanging or even imaginary fruits, would be not only illusory IMHO, it would actually subtract from my life instead of add anything useful.

Performing on stage and doing my best to let the audience have a nice time, is satisfying. So is improving some production process in some assembly line, or building something useful that people can enjoy.

Really, there's so much fun stuff to do, so many interesting things to learn. When I'm feeling strong and healthy, I have at least 5 projects going at any given time. When I'm feeling ill and weak, that goes down to 1 or 2 projects, or when I'm really very sick, I just read and learn if I can, but just sitting there thinking and dreaming about carrots that I will never reach in this lifetime, just isn't my thing.

For all I know, this life is all I have and I'm trying to make good use of it. Who can really tell what comes thereafter?

 

[programmer_guy]

Thanks Paul, for this interesting post, which I've read completely, although I've snipped most of it.

As I've occasionally mentioned, I'm a simple guy and I like my life simple as well. Past lives, future lives, lives-between-life-lives, afterlife, etherial life, spirit life, life in other dimensions, and so on, has nothing to do with my life in the here and now, and I refuse to stare at carrots which I cannot even see, let alone reach.

I live my life here, in this world, right now and I try to make it a good life. By good life I don't mean a quest to reach divine wisdom, intellectual heights, infinite enlightenment, great wealth or whatever. Just a simple, modest life which I can just enjoy and occasionally do my part in trying to make this world a better place.

I don't even have the time to learn everything there is to learn at this point in time, to thinking about reaching for even higher hanging or even imaginary fruits, would be not only illusory IMHO, it would actually subtract from my life instead of add anything useful.

Performing on stage and doing my best to let the audience have a nice time, is satisfying. So is improving some production process in some assembly line, or building something useful that people can enjoy.

Really, there's so much fun stuff to do, so many interesting things to learn. When I'm feeling strong and healthy, I have at least 5 projects going at any given time. When I'm feeling ill and weak, that goes down to 1 or 2 projects, or when I'm really very sick, I just read and learn if I can, but just sitting there thinking and dreaming about carrots that I will never reach in this lifetime, just isn't my thing.

For all I know, this life is all I have and I'm trying to make good use of it. Who can really tell what comes thereafter?

Me, too.

With that position,
and that you are a musician
I offer:

"Best of Both Worlds" - Van Halen with Sammy Hagar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDStPKHUbqw

Sammy & Eddie do a "call-and-response" music idiom at the beginning of the video.
This was started in old blues tunes from decades ago.

 

[programmer_guy]

I'll give a personal anecdote which I immediately thought of but didn't post then as it is similar but not what you asked. At university around 1969 I did about 20 LSD trips, almost all pleasant, ranging from small amounts with small effects to large amounts. The "unpleasant" one was a very large amount, where the effects came on very quickly and were very pronounced. After 30 minutes of it being somewhat unpleasant I suddenly seemed to be "exterior," could hear a friend (Mick) talking through walls hundreds of feet away knocking on doors (asking for some phenobarbitone for me) and similar. At that point I was calm, serene etc etc and it wasn't a problem any more.

Way back then, some forms of LSD were also laced with some form of speed (I think Orange Sunshine?) which could lead to a "bummer trip" (i.e. psychotic episode).
So-called "Window Pane" LSD didn't have that. But, still, with Window Pane, a large enough dose could result in a bummer.

Under that influence you could see "image shadow trails" when you moved your hand in front of your face, as well as, all sorts of "spiritual" thoughts. Definitely hallucinogenic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide

 

[JustSheila]

I tried to write screen plays - and my head got all messed up, not about the subject matter of my stories, but the business of it, networking, taking classes, the antagonism of the secondary role a writer plays.

The things I could do easily. I was fooling around, trying to fix a car and someone commented that I looked like a person who knew what they were doing, but couldn't recall exactly how to fix it. Some things like science I pick up so fast - not so with math and grammar - phew - even after doing the Key to Life course, I still struggle.

When I saw a Life Magazine photo spread on operations, showing opened torso's and the guts, and my extreme reaction, and my unwillingness to look at mummies, but not minding freshly dead people - weird.

My point is - were did these things come from?...
Perhaps this is all the proof one needs they have had past lives. Am I alone in this, have you had similar experiences?


Mimsey

Mimsey, without discounting any beliefs you may have about past lives, you should know that there is such a thing as genetic memory - memory contained in your DNA code. That type of memory is purely biological but can account for most of the things you mentioned.

Blind experiments on mice found that their progeny (descendants) could run mazes they had never seen much faster than their parents, and their progeny even faster than that.

In humans, studies found that when generations learned certain types of study, their children also learned those things faster. These studies were unpopular for obvious reasons, but the results and methods were airtight. They found that yes, Chinese DO learn maths faster as a people (they invented the abacus, you know, so maths go WAY back for them). Their thinking, however, was quite linear, not as creative as say, Anglos.

The studies also found that someone with no prior background in reading and writing, say someone from a tribe in Africa with no formal education, would learn Anglo studies at a much slower pace. Conversely, Anglos unaccustomed to country or tribal lifestyle had a much harder time learning the basics.

These indicate that perhaps there is a slight alteration in the DNA code in just a single generation, one that enhances established brain learning pathways or something along this line. This concept radically challenges the idea that it takes thousands or millions of years for genetic change to occur.

How does this apply?

Basically, if your family has shown certain skills, likes and dislikes in areas, you not only may have inherited it - you may very well be able to do it better - or, on the other hand, avoid it and hate it more.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Under that influence you could see "image shadow trails" when you moved your hand in front of your face

I see those a lot from cars tail lights, in the evening, if I am sitting at a stop light staring ahead as cars pass by. I also can see the different frames on action scenes in movies instead of continuous motion - it is annoying because on really active shots I have a hard time following the motion.

These indicate that perhaps there is a slight alteration in the DNA code in just a single generation, one that enhances established brain learning pathways or something along this line.

DNA? It seems so.. so.. um.. limited? I wonder how the DNA can carry that much information. Perhaps it is more of a holographic thing. You know how a holograph works? It is a vibration pattern recorded on something - and any part of it is a copy of the whole. The bigger the part, the more detail. So maybe the mouse has a sort of a holographic imprint on it of its parents maze memory, which it uses. I'll bet a holograph can house more data than DNA. That could explain instinctive data, which at some time in the past was learned data.

Mimsey

 

[JustSheila]

DNA? It seems so.. so.. um.. limited? I wonder how the DNA can carry that much information. Perhaps it is more of a holographic thing. You know how a holograph works? It is a vibration pattern recorded on something - and any part of it is a copy of the whole. The bigger the part, the more detail. So maybe the mouse has a sort of a holographic imprint on it of its parents maze memory, which it uses. I'll bet a holograph can house more data than DNA. That could explain instinctive data, which at some time in the past was learned data.

Mimsey

^ Awesome thought on the holographic vibration pattern. I love it.

Nobody knows HOW the genetic learning works and yes, the whole idea of it changes how we have previously defined instincts. We say DNA, because unravelling the DNA is one of the greatest of the biological mysteries. But who is to say there isn't more to DNA, another substance, a holograph of sorts?

Can you believe that I read those studies over 14 years ago ... how much further have we come to understand genetics since then?

I've seen the same sort of thing with the wild parrots here. The released ones that were the progeny of pets don't always know things they can eat in the wild, but the wild babies often just KNOW. Some species are just a heckuva lot better at adjusting to different environments and thriving in them, so perhaps whatever it is that provides genetic learning, they have more of it.