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Can Scientology be Saved? Nope.

THe only way I can see Scientology being saved if they use the footage from all of the cameras at their various installations and turn it into a Reality TV Freak Show

They might be able to leverage the Xenu brand into a UFO themed Rice and Beans franchise, too.

Other then that, I don't see any point in keeping it running,

when they could just close shop and liquidate the real estate assets,

instead of bleeding away their money waiting for Ron to return from Target II
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
You are spot fricken on Wolfie :happydance: - not even Marty can save it now!

Bye-Bye Scientology....Bye-Bye!!:wink2:
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
The following is the opinion of the author.
Your opinion may differ.
I can live with that.


http://nomoreliesscn.blogspot.com/2013/01/scientology-cannot-be-saved.html

The game can change significantly, use the Scientology reserves to bankroll the new game, use a good deal of salvaged "tech" and do all of that rebranded. The problem is that Scientology isn't Scientology without Xenu, and the Xenu story only worked when it was kept to a select few who paid thru the nose to read that mediocre bit of HubTurdian SciFi. Therefore, the game is doomed albeit for, as I see it, a different reason than the ones you brought forward. The solution?

Go over to Cult Lite. Do another LandMark or LifeSpring. You need trained "facilitators" that are drilled, drilled, drilled on being genuinely enthusiastic, even if they would rather strangle the people they are pitching a seminar to as opposed to blowing sunshine up their asses. I.e., no case on post. These facilitators would all have nice plastic smiley faces and slim muscular bodies, no fatties. We are talking about guys who look absolutely great in a tailored business suit and women who look great in business atire as well. We are talking about having these folk drilled in projecting charisma. Personally, these types make me want to barf, but, wtf, lots of folk wish they could cut an image like that. How do you find and train folk like that? Lots of auditions, lots of training, and, in the end, if nothing else works, keep their noses well packed with the finest Bolivian flake.

You have several crews, and they go from city to city. They promote a two hour freebie, a $49.95 value in and of itself, with tickets printed up that a true mooch is totally grateful that he somehow "won." The facilitator warms up the crowd by telling a few jokes and perhaps using some group processing techniques and/or any other technique that works. The free coffee helps as well, with 2x the usual amount of cafeine and perhaps some other ingredients that enhance the effect of the caffeine ... all legal, nothing to get busted over ... we are talking 5 hour energy drink stuff. The facilitator blows sunshine bigtime. The closers (redges, but known as counselors) are at the back table to sign people up for the $398.50 weekend seminar. It is a relatively easy sale. There will be people who simply file out, no interest. Fine, let them go. There will be those who immediately sign up, and, if the intro seminar is done right, that would be half or more, and then there will be those with some questions to answers. The point of the closers will not be to answer questions, but rather to convey an attitude, which is "We're having a pool party! We have chips, dips, and as many pitchers of Margaritas as you want! There's a band playing YOUR MUSIC! Come'on in, the water's fine! And look at all the amazing guests, everybody is enjoying!!!!" Remember, nobody has to be begged to go to a party. The invitation is put out LIGHTLY. The host is doing the guests a FAVOR.

The weekend seminar is designed to be as much fun as possible and, for single folk of for those acting as if they are single, as conducive as possible for making a hookup. The focus? Pick, say, the top 5 things that people tend to be hung up about. For instance, procrastination, wasting time, finishing shit, a bit shy in public, etc. Not saying those are the items exactly, they would be determined via surveys. The survey would be to find the top five things that the people who are the most moochifiable and easy to sell want to handle.

After a weekend of fun drills and having sunshine blown up their backsides, the attendees should feel as if they have really experienced a life changing event and/or made a hookup as well. A large percentage of them can then be closed by the "counselors" for the $1998.50 5 day intermediate level seminar ... which, of course, will be held at a fun resort location with skiing or beach parties at night or some such thing. There would be choices.

There could be, say, 2 more higher levels, with the price going up, and perhaps a 5th level for staff training for those who really dig the heck out of it and want to become a facilitator.

Keep it light, keep it fun, refund promptly those who aren't satisfied. My guess is that if done right very very few would ask for a refund.

Offer a steep discount, say, 50%, for those who attend the weekend seminar two or more times, if they want to come back again and again and again. Those will be the guys/chicks who work the seminars the same way that others work singles bars.

Part of the deal ... auditing expensives could be sold as well, but, they would not be the mainstay, that would be a specialty side item.

ANYWAYS ... that is my take on how to repackage the cult, but, as I said, it would require a rebranding and Xenu would never again be mentioned. And instead of chasing celebs for endorsement purposes ... in addition to pitching individuals who show up for the 2 hour intro freebie, the big league sales could be to corporations to send their employees in for a weekend of training.

Pete
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
The game can change significantly, use the Scientology reserves to bankroll the new game, use a good deal of salvaged "tech" and do all of that rebranded. The problem is that Scientology isn't Scientology without Xenu, and the Xenu story only worked when it was kept to a select few who paid thru the nose to read that mediocre bit of HubTurdian SciFi. Therefore, the game is doomed albeit for, as I see it, a different reason than the ones you brought forward. The solution?

Go over to Cult Lite. Do another LandMark or LifeSpring. You need trained "facilitators" that are drilled, drilled, drilled on being genuinely enthusiastic, even if they would rather strangle the people they are pitching a seminar to as opposed to blowing sunshine up their asses. I.e., no case on post. These facilitators would all have nice plastic smiley faces and slim muscular bodies, no fatties. We are talking about guys who look absolutely great in a tailored business suit and women who look great in business atire as well. We are talking about having these folk drilled in projecting charisma. Personally, these types make me want to barf, but, wtf, lots of folk wish they could cut an image like that. How do you find and train folk like that? Lots of auditions, lots of training, and, in the end, if nothing else works, keep their noses well packed with the finest Bolivian flake.

You have several crews, and they go from city to city. They promote a two hour freebie, a $49.95 value in and of itself, with tickets printed up that a true mooch is totally grateful that he somehow "won." The facilitator warms up the crowd by telling a few jokes and perhaps using some group processing techniques and/or any other technique that works. The free coffee helps as well, with 2x the usual amount of cafeine and perhaps some other ingredients that enhance the effect of the caffeine ... all legal, nothing to get busted over ... we are talking 5 hour energy drink stuff. The facilitator blows sunshine bigtime. The closers (redges, but known as counselors) are at the back table to sign people up for the $398.50 weekend seminar. It is a relatively easy sale. There will be people who simply file out, no interest. Fine, let them go. There will be those who immediately sign up, and, if the intro seminar is done right, that would be half or more, and then there will be those with some questions to answers. The point of the closers will not be to answer questions, but rather to convey an attitude, which is "We're having a pool party! We have chips, dips, and as many pitchers of Margaritas as you want! There's a band playing YOUR MUSIC! Come'on in, the water's fine! And look at all the amazing guests, everybody is enjoying!!!!" Remember, nobody has to be begged to go to a party. The invitation is put out LIGHTLY. The host is doing the guests a FAVOR.

The weekend seminar is designed to be as much fun as possible and, for single folk of for those acting as if they are single, as conducive as possible for making a hookup. The focus? Pick, say, the top 5 things that people tend to be hung up about. For instance, procrastination, wasting time, finishing shit, a bit shy in public, etc. Not saying those are the items exactly, they would be determined via surveys. The survey would be to find the top five things that the people who are the most moochifiable and easy to sell want to handle.

After a weekend of fun drills and having sunshine blown up their backsides, the attendees should feel as if they have really experienced a life changing event and/or made a hookup as well. A large percentage of them can then be closed by the "counselors" for the $1998.50 5 day intermediate level seminar ... which, of course, will be held at a fun resort location with skiing or beach parties at night or some such thing. There would be choices.

There could be, say, 2 more higher levels, with the price going up, and perhaps a 5th level for staff training for those who really dig the heck out of it and want to become a facilitator.

Keep it light, keep it fun, refund promptly those who aren't satisfied. My guess is that if done right very very few would ask for a refund.

Offer a steep discount, say, 50%, for those who attend the weekend seminar two or more times, if they want to come back again and again and again. Those will be the guys/chicks who work the seminars the same way that others work singles bars.

Part of the deal ... auditing expensives could be sold as well, but, they would not be the mainstay, that would be a specialty side item.

ANYWAYS ... that is my take on how to repackage the cult, but, as I said, it would require a rebranding and Xenu would never again be mentioned. And instead of chasing celebs for endorsement purposes ... in addition to pitching individuals who show up for the 2 hour intro freebie, the big league sales could be to corporations to send their employees in for a weekend of training.

Pete


EXCELLENT!
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
If one studies in the social sciences one will find a LOT of Hubbard's best ideas were taken (stolen?) from there (Linguistics and Jungian psychology and archaeology in particular), as well as from standard classic Engineering methods, and non-western (some say alternative) health practices (chiropractic, Traditional Chinese Medicine, etc) as well as from Buddhism/Taoism/Shintoism.

Someday I'm going to get off my duff and cross reference everything (idea) worth saving with the precise places Hubbard probably stole them from, but I suspect the ideas will just go back to their original topics where they belong rather than as "Scientology" where they were more often than not abused or at least maladaptively applied.

I don't think CofS can be saved, nor should it be.

People interested in doing it outside CofS- well, maybe that'll fall, too. My guess is that the ideas would survive (or not survive) piece meal, rather than as a whole entire subject with a name and everything.
 
THe only way I can see Scientology being saved if they use the footage from all of the cameras at their various installations and turn it into a Reality TV Freak Show

They might be able to leverage the Xenu brand into a UFO themed Rice and Beans franchise, too.

Other then that, I don't see any point in keeping it running,

when they could just close shop and liquidate the real estate assets,

instead of bleeding away their money waiting for Ron to return from Target II

ron's cosmology certainly appears to be something less than viable
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
If one studies in the social sciences one will find a LOT of Hubbard's best ideas were taken (stolen?) from there (Linguistics and Jungian psychology and archaeology in particular), as well as from standard classic Engineering methods, and non-western (some say alternative) health practices (chiropractic, Traditional Chinese Medicine, etc) as well as from Buddhism/Taoism/Shintoism.

Someday I'm going to get off my duff and cross reference everything (idea) worth saving with the precise places Hubbard probably stole them from, but I suspect the ideas will just go back to their original topics where they belong rather than as "Scientology" where they were more often than not abused or at least maladaptively applied.

Yes, I noticed that, too, about the other things. Lately, I've been reading a lot of Buddhist books and I can see a LOT of stuff he cribbed from there, without really saying much about it.

He made vague allusions to it, but he never fully disclosed all his influences and the extent.

I will say this, though- I totally agree with you for sure- but I do think that others have cribbed ideas from Hubbard. A friend of mine went to some seminar and the guy was saying stuff that - when she told me about it- sounded VERY like Hubbard's stuff.

Cross pollination is inevitable. But I don't think everyone's honest about it when they do it. Hubbard wasn't. I know he said he was interested in magic or something but I don't believe he ever admitted to the CofS faithful what his past background in occultism really was. I never knew about it til I got on critical fora.
 
If one studies in the social sciences one will find a LOT of Hubbard's best ideas were taken (stolen?) from there (Linguistics and Jungian psychology and archaeology in particular), as well as from standard classic Engineering methods, and non-western (some say alternative) health practices (chiropractic, Traditional Chinese Medicine, etc) as well as from Buddhism/Taoism/Shintoism. ...

Yes, much of basic scientology is a condensation of useful techniques from various other traditions, philosophies, and practices. The Clearbird materials in turn are an excellent condensation of the fundamentals of scientology; effectively a condensation of a condensation, so to speak.

It would likely easier to use Clearbird as a basis for such a correlative study since the materials there are presented in a systematic and organized fashion, unlike most of hubbard's original materials. Of course, that organization doesn't necessarily reflect the same organization of original non-scientology sources, it's still far easier than attempting to wade through hubbard's source materials.


Mark A. Baker
 

freethinker

Sponsor
So Marky, I don't really care if you want to promote some technology on this board as long as you are frank about what it is that you are doing.

People who come to this board have been damaged in some way by a technology that claimed to bring them to higher states of beingness and ability and instead took a great deal of money from them and then cast them aside as if they were nothing but stupid lower level human beings who deserved to be taken advantage of because their trusting nature or IQ begged for it.

I have not ever seen any complaints about your clearbird technology or how much money you charge to administer it but, it has always been apparent to me that you are promoting some form of self-help technology based on the writings of L Ron Hubbard whom you denigrate at the drop of a hat.

Scientology ruined many lives. So, what is your intention by promoting a derivative of that technology that destroyed so many? And, don't say it is not derived from Hubbard as you wouldn't be here if it had not been.

I await your response because this is the "bone of contention" I have with you in the first place, that you are condescending and disrespectful of those you consider below your self considered level of intelectual prowess and, IMO, questionable education, is quite demeaning to those who have a much greater understanding of intelligence than you have but don't , perhaps, indulge themsleves in "words of art", as you have.

You can respond or write a complaint, your choice, but I believe you will not respond at all, at least , not with anything meanuingful
Yes, much of basic scientology is a condensation of useful techniques from various other traditions, philosophies, and practices. The Clearbird materials in turn are an excellent condensation of the fundamentals of scientology; effectively a condensation of a condensation, so to speak.

It would likely easier to use Clearbird as a basis for such a correlative study since the materials there are presented in a systematic and organized fashion, unlike most of hubbard's original materials. Of course, that organization doesn't necessarily reflect the same organization of original non-scientology sources, it's still far easier than attempting to wade through hubbard's source materials.


Mark A. Baker
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
The game can change significantly, use the Scientology reserves to bankroll the new game, use a good deal of salvaged "tech" and do all of that rebranded. The problem is that Scientology isn't Scientology without Xenu, and the Xenu story only worked when it was kept to a select few who paid thru the nose to read that mediocre bit of HubTurdian SciFi. Therefore, the game is doomed albeit for, as I see it, a different reason than the ones you brought forward. The solution?

Go over to Cult Lite. Do another LandMark or LifeSpring. You need trained "facilitators" that are drilled, drilled, drilled on being genuinely enthusiastic, even if they would rather strangle the people they are pitching a seminar to as opposed to blowing sunshine up their asses. I.e., no case on post. These facilitators would all have nice plastic smiley faces and slim muscular bodies, no fatties. We are talking about guys who look absolutely great in a tailored business suit and women who look great in business atire as well. We are talking about having these folk drilled in projecting charisma. Personally, these types make me want to barf, but, wtf, lots of folk wish they could cut an image like that. How do you find and train folk like that? Lots of auditions, lots of training, and, in the end, if nothing else works, keep their noses well packed with the finest Bolivian flake.

You have several crews, and they go from city to city. They promote a two hour freebie, a $49.95 value in and of itself, with tickets printed up that a true mooch is totally grateful that he somehow "won." The facilitator warms up the crowd by telling a few jokes and perhaps using some group processing techniques and/or any other technique that works. The free coffee helps as well, with 2x the usual amount of cafeine and perhaps some other ingredients that enhance the effect of the caffeine ... all legal, nothing to get busted over ... we are talking 5 hour energy drink stuff. The facilitator blows sunshine bigtime. The closers (redges, but known as counselors) are at the back table to sign people up for the $398.50 weekend seminar. It is a relatively easy sale. There will be people who simply file out, no interest. Fine, let them go. There will be those who immediately sign up, and, if the intro seminar is done right, that would be half or more, and then there will be those with some questions to answers. The point of the closers will not be to answer questions, but rather to convey an attitude, which is "We're having a pool party! We have chips, dips, and as many pitchers of Margaritas as you want! There's a band playing YOUR MUSIC! Come'on in, the water's fine! And look at all the amazing guests, everybody is enjoying!!!!" Remember, nobody has to be begged to go to a party. The invitation is put out LIGHTLY. The host is doing the guests a FAVOR.

The weekend seminar is designed to be as much fun as possible and, for single folk of for those acting as if they are single, as conducive as possible for making a hookup. The focus? Pick, say, the top 5 things that people tend to be hung up about. For instance, procrastination, wasting time, finishing shit, a bit shy in public, etc. Not saying those are the items exactly, they would be determined via surveys. The survey would be to find the top five things that the people who are the most moochifiable and easy to sell want to handle.

After a weekend of fun drills and having sunshine blown up their backsides, the attendees should feel as if they have really experienced a life changing event and/or made a hookup as well. A large percentage of them can then be closed by the "counselors" for the $1998.50 5 day intermediate level seminar ... which, of course, will be held at a fun resort location with skiing or beach parties at night or some such thing. There would be choices.

There could be, say, 2 more higher levels, with the price going up, and perhaps a 5th level for staff training for those who really dig the heck out of it and want to become a facilitator.

Keep it light, keep it fun, refund promptly those who aren't satisfied. My guess is that if done right very very few would ask for a refund.

Offer a steep discount, say, 50%, for those who attend the weekend seminar two or more times, if they want to come back again and again and again. Those will be the guys/chicks who work the seminars the same way that others work singles bars.

Part of the deal ... auditing expensives could be sold as well, but, they would not be the mainstay, that would be a specialty side item.

ANYWAYS ... that is my take on how to repackage the cult, but, as I said, it would require a rebranding and Xenu would never again be mentioned. And instead of chasing celebs for endorsement purposes ... in addition to pitching individuals who show up for the 2 hour intro freebie, the big league sales could be to corporations to send their employees in for a weekend of training.

Pete

Pete,
It looks like HVAC is not the business you should be in. :biggrin:
 

freethinker

Sponsor
So when you are called out you quit?, you run?, You hide?????, you are truly fake?
Yes, much of basic scientology is a condensation of useful techniques from various other traditions, philosophies, and practices. The Clearbird materials in turn are an excellent condensation of the fundamentals of scientology; effectively a condensation of a condensation, so to speak.

It would likely easier to use Clearbird as a basis for such a correlative study since the materials there are presented in a systematic and organized fashion, unlike most of hubbard's original materials. Of course, that organization doesn't necessarily reflect the same organization of original non-scientology sources, it's still far easier than attempting to wade through hubbard's source materials.


Mark A. Baker
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
Pete,
It looks like HVAC is not the business you should be in. :biggrin:

Thanks.

Truth is, I don't look good in a business suit, never did. And in order for me to project real Charisma, either 1) my nose would definitely have to be well packed with the finest Bolivian export or 2) I would have to be ranting away on a subject that I am passionate about. I hacked phone room jobs in LA in the first half of the 80's, all WATS line operations, no local line deals, and picked up the lingo. Also attended Wade Crook and his Wallstreet Workover er, oops, I meant Wade Cook and his Wallstreet Workshop ... a rediculously priced weekend training deal for stock trading. Went on the insistence of a friend who was gaga over it. Nothing was covered that I hadn't studied myself, having actually done the homework they suggested you do prior to the seminar. The difference between me and most that attended is that I am, by today's standards, a whiz at doing simple math problems in my head where most get lost and are forced to resort to paper or calculator. That makes an amazing difference in picking up on things quickly. You should know. For instance, as a programmer, if you are examining machine code, being able to mentally convert from hex to dec instantly and intuitively makes a difference.

Anyways ... rambling on ... watching the Wade Cook presenters at work was definitely something. Because as expensive as the weekend workshop was, they had more to sell at the back table and needed you to be moochified for the next step up. They really knew how to blow sunshine. I suspect that it would be far more cost effective to have an elite cadre of presenters or faciliators, like the Wade Crook crew, that make 2 to 3k per week average and get lots and lots of paid for travel ... than to have the current army of sorry asses they have now who work for essentially zero compensation.

Pete
 
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