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Charles Mansion ties to Scientology are in news again

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
I wonder if Manson got an FSM commission for sending other "family" members over to the CoS. :whistling:
 
I've always thought that Manson's flirtation with Scientology was overrated. It is certain (and well documented) that he had some contact with the group. However I don't think Scientology had a lot of impact on Manson being the type of person he was. Manson was not a follower type, he was a leader type and a cult leader type to boot. His objective was to own people, body and soul, to be the guru - not unlike most cult leaders.

The whole affair is a testimony to what happens in a group run by a single individual. Without checks and balances, even the most benign organisation ultimately becomes a corrupt, dangerous entity.

Cults are like viruses in society, the really harmful ones we don't see very often because they kill their hosts and are then destroyed. Others lurk in in the shadows, in the lymph nodes like AIDs, slowly becoming more powerful and spreading from host to host.
 

Good twin

Floater
I've always thought that Manson's flirtation with Scientology was overrated. It is certain (and well documented) that he had some contact with the group. However I don't think Scientology had a lot of impact on Manson being the type of person he was. Manson was not a follower type, he was a leader type and a cult leader type to boot. His objective was to own people, body and soul, to be the guru - not unlike most cult leaders.

The whole affair is a testimony to what happens in a group run by a single individual. Without checks and balances, even the most benign organisation ultimately becomes a corrupt, dangerous entity.

Cults are like viruses in society, the really harmful ones we don't see very often because they kill their hosts and are then destroyed. Others lurk in in the shadows, in the lymph nodes like AIDs, slowly becoming more powerful and spreading from host to host.
:goodposting:
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
However I don't think Scientology had a lot of impact on Manson being the type of person he was. Manson was not a follower type, he was a leader type and a cult leader type to boot. His objective was to own people, body and soul, to be the guru - not unlike most cult leaders.

Per his OWN words, Manson became heavily involved with scientology.
See his success story in this thread:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=17902

That said, I would agree that Scn didn't have a major impact on him but perhaps he leaned upon Hubbard for some training on how to be a cult leader? :yes: He obviously saw some value in it if he sent Bruce Davis over for services. As you said "His objective was to own people, body and soul, to be the guru........" Maybe he saw something within scientology which he felt would allow him to further his objective. :coolwink:
 

Div6

Crusader
I've always thought that Manson's flirtation with Scientology was overrated. It is certain (and well documented) that he had some contact with the group. However I don't think Scientology had a lot of impact on Manson being the type of person he was. Manson was not a follower type, he was a leader type and a cult leader type to boot. His objective was to own people, body and soul, to be the guru - not unlike most cult leaders.

The whole affair is a testimony to what happens in a group run by a single individual. Without checks and balances, even the most benign organisation ultimately becomes a corrupt, dangerous entity.

Cults are like viruses in society, the really harmful ones we don't see very often because they kill their hosts and are then destroyed. Others lurk in in the shadows, in the lymph nodes like AIDs, slowly becoming more powerful and spreading from host to host.

Lrn2Research


Scientology had a profound influence on Manson, initially in a good way. Even his jailors noticed the changes in him. Apparently he was "overrun" heavily (to the point of comitting infractions so he would be put in isolation for 30 days, just to get away from his 'auditor'). When Manson was being paroled, he asked the state to NOT let him out....I guess his basic goodness was trying to poke through. He had enough awareness to know he could not trust himself in the outside world.

One of the first things he did after he got out was walk in to a Scientology building and was "what came after clear?"

Most of this is well documented in Bugliosi's book Helter Skelter. Arnie has additional sources here:

http://www.lermanet.com/scientologyscandals/charlesmanson.htm
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Per his own words, Manson was also the second coming of Jesus Christ, IIRC.

Michael "The Sneakster" Hobson
I am *not* anonymous. I *do* forgive.

Sun Young Moon's "secret" is that after you get involved with his cult long enough you find out that Moon IS the 2nd coming.

Per a dinner conversation in 1960's, The President of GWU Dr. Robert Carroll invited a few colleagues to dinner. One of the distinguished gentlemen was a Professor Mossell, (maybe Mosel this was phonetic) who entertained his employer's family with a story about one of his students, years ago, named "Lafayette Hubbard" who went missing from classes.

He found his missing student in what was then a notorious insane asylum in Washington DC named St Elizabeth's.

He stated that he found his student in a straight jacket, in a padded room at St Elizabeths Mental Hospital.. screaming that HE was jesus christ...

(This was related during a series of yet unpublished interviews with his son, who is now a 25 year friend of mine.)


60's radical (radical meant TRUE back then) writer Paul Krassner of The Realist was sued by Scientology for $750,000 damages for the following single line:

"There was a scientology E-meter at the Spahn Ranch" Paul fought back.. $cn dropped the suit...after finishing off Paul Krassner's petty cash fund... http://www.lermanet.com/scientologyscandals/charlesmanson.htm
 
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GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
redging

This from the article linked to above:

July 25, 1969 - Davis drives three Family members to the home of musician Gary Hinman in Malibu. He later also drives Manson to the scene. Manson wants Hinman to turn over a large sum of money, but Hinman is unable or unwilling to comply. Hinman is held hostage for two days, tortured and then killed. His body is found July 31.

Sounds like an average redge cycle to me, nothing to see here folks, move along.

Pete
 

Mystic

Crusader
Ya. There are thousands of entity-beings claiming to be Jesus Christ in the lower dark-psychic levels of Bardo. When they come into an incarnation cycle, they bring all that schoidt with them.

Why in their world they chose to use this appellation I have no idea...yet. Give me another hundred years, no telling what I'll find out.

I have never run into any fake Buddhas or Quan Yins or Tecumsehs.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Ya. There are thousands of entity-beings claiming to be Jesus Christ in the lower dark-psychic levels of Bardo. When they come into an incarnation cycle, they bring all that schoidt with them.

Why in their world they chose to use this appellation I have no idea...yet. Give me another hundred years, no telling what I'll find out.

I have never run into any fake Buddhas or Quan Yins or
Tecumsehs.

I've been told by friends who live there, that in Jerusalem you can meet a couple of dozen people on any given day who believe that they are Jesus Christ 2.0. I expect that the Antichrists are more fun though.
 

FoTi

Crusader
Per a dinner conversation in 1960's, The President of GWU Dr. Robert Carroll invited a few colleagues to dinner. One of the distinguished gentlemen was a Professor Mossell, (maybe Mosel this was phonetic) who entertained his employer's family with a story about one of his students, years ago, named "Lafayette Hubbard" who went missing from classes.

He found his missing student in what was then a notorious insane asylum in Washington DC named St Elizabeth's.

He stated that he found his student in a straight jacket, in a padded room at St Elizabeths Mental Hospital.. screaming that HE was jesus christ...

(This was related during a series of yet unpublished interviews with his son, who is now a 25 year friend of mine.)

QUOTE]

:ohmy: Oh WOW!! :omg:

Are there any documented records on this?
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Per a dinner conversation in 1960's, The President of GWU Dr. Robert Carroll invited a few colleagues to dinner. One of the distinguished gentlemen was a Professor Mossell, (maybe Mosel this was phonetic) who entertained his employer's family with a story about one of his students, years ago, named "Lafayette Hubbard" who went missing from classes.

He found his missing student in what was then a notorious insane asylum in Washington DC named St Elizabeth's.

He stated that he found his student in a straight jacket, in a padded room at St Elizabeths Mental Hospital.. screaming that HE was jesus christ...

(This was related during a series of yet unpublished interviews with his son, who is now a 25 year friend of mine.)

QUOTE]

:ohmy: Oh WOW!! :omg:

Are there any documented records on this?


All I have is a digital recording from a 3 hour interview of the son.
The rest is circumstancial... though convictions have rested on circumstancial evidence...These events were from the 40's... thats 70 years ago.... in the early 50's (50-52) there were newspaper reports nationally about the "Miracle" in Kansas after The Menninger Clinic took over control of state mental hospitals.. Menninger advocated treatment instead of mere incarceration (and shock therapy) of the mentally disturbed. There were rave reviews of the new program.

I suspect our charismatic old nutball thought he might get his wacked out mind fixed out there or maybe just get some good drugs.. so when lawsuits in state court in New Jersey made life uncomfortable, perhaps he chose to move to whichita...seeking help.

In one of his PDC tapes he makes a reference to a nuthouse he calls "Walnut Acres" in Bethesda Maryland....- well St Elizabeth's had an adjunct "long term care" facility that was implicated as being one of the locations used for notorious (This guy scares me) Dr Cameron's MkUltra.. in Bethesda Maryland. I forgot its name it was a nut but not a walnut...) for more on MkUltra google "congressional testimony MkUltra < very creepy testimony... before you start reading different internet 'spins' on that program.

Maureen posted a scan of a newpaper article about Dr Cameron, from a newletter by Volney Mathison, the inventor of the E-meter, and Volney must have known something significant because he drew arrows drawn next to and pointing to Dr Cameron's name...

There is also evidence coming to light that Hubbard was also treated (to something..) at a mental hospital facility in Savannah Georgia...

Fun sidebar: from wiki: The Menninger Clinic is referred to in paraphrase as the "Berringer Clinic" in the movie The Exorcist.

LINK to page on Dr Carroll from GWU

What is NOT on that official bio page at GWU is something else his son told me... that he was the overseer - of Operation Paperclip, and UNLIKE the operation paperclip page on Wiki... it was far far larger than anyone imaged.. he said 'thousands" of brilliant nazis were brought to the US and placed in large corporations and the CIA...info that he gleaned from his father's notes - years after his father passed away under unusual circumstances... which was after his father reportedly challenged Ike and Dullus about the propriety of what they were doing..

..bringing the smartest nazis to america, giving them new names, and gave them jobs in the CIA and Military Industrial Complex..
 
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Div6

Crusader
In one of his PDC tapes he makes a reference to a nuthouse he calls "Walnut Acres" in Bethesda Maryland.......

Chestnut Lodge: http://www.southernbyways.com/2006/09/chestnut-lodge-asylum/


What is NOT on that official bio page at GWU is something else his son told me... that he was the overseer - of Operation Paperclip, and UNLIKE the operation paperclip page on Wiki... it was far far larger than anyone imaged.. he said 'thousands" of brilliant nazis were brought to the US and placed in large corporations and the CIA...info that he gleaned from his father's notes - years after his father passed away under unusual circumstances... which was after his father reportedly challenged Ike and Dullus about the propriety of what they were doing...

Most were processed through Fort Hunt in Alexandria, Va:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/05/AR2007100502492.html

The veterans of P.O. Box 1142, a top-secret installation in Fairfax County that went only by its postal code name, were brought back to Fort Hunt by park rangers who are piecing together a portrait of what happened there during the war.

Nearly 4,000 prisoners of war, most of them German scientists and submariners, were brought in for questioning for days, even weeks, before their presence was reported to the Red Cross, a process that did not comply with the Geneva Conventions. Many of the interrogators were refugees from the Third Reich.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you! I do that all the time....re Walnut/Chestnut
It WAS Chestnut Lodge.. that was the long term facility in bethesda md.

Yeah, he actually lives in his dad's house still, and it is in one of the valley's running down toward the potomac FROM Ft Hunt.. And yes he was stationed as director AT those buildings at the top of that hill at what is called Ft Hunt.

good links thank YOU!

Edit: When he was at The Ford Foundation... his nickname was "The Fifth Rider of the Apocalypse"
 
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Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Charles Manson

As you said "His objective was to own people, body and soul, to be the guru........" Maybe he saw something within scientology which he felt would allow him to further his objective. :coolwink:

He may have thought that Hubbard was speaking directly to HIM.

"A very effective thought control technique
could also be worked out from Scientology,
which could be used to make
individuals into willing slaves." - L Ron Hubbard
 

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
I've always thought that Manson's flirtation with Scientology was overrated. It is certain (and well documented) that he had some contact with the group. However I don't think Scientology had a lot of impact on Manson being the type of person he was. Manson was not a follower type, he was a leader type and a cult leader type to boot. His objective was to own people, body and soul, to be the guru - not unlike most cult leaders.

The whole affair is a testimony to what happens in a group run by a single individual. Without checks and balances, even the most benign organisation ultimately becomes a corrupt, dangerous entity.

Cults are like viruses in society, the really harmful ones we don't see very often because they kill their hosts and are then destroyed. Others lurk in in the shadows, in the lymph nodes like AIDs, slowly becoming more powerful and spreading from host to host.

Manson apparently messed around with auditing in prison, but I've heard he was much more influenced by a group called 'The Process' which is suppose to be a so-called splinter group from the cult, though I gather it's pretty different, to say the least.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Process_Church_of_The_Final_Judgment
 
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