Coming out feels Great
- Thread starter voldemorte
- Start date
GreyLensman
Silver Meritorious Patron
When you can grab this cricket out of my hand, grasshopper...
What was that crunch?
Did you kill my lucky cricket?
FlunkedForLaughing
Patron with Honors
The final straw for me was reading the Andre Tabayoyon affidavid. He discusses his experiences as an SO member at Gold. I found it very shocking, especially where he discusses how some SO members would be reverse audited (without knowing it) to make them crazy before routing off of staff. To intentially make someone go crazy with the tech intentionally used incorrectly, I found deeply disturbing. He discusses many other terrible things like armed guards, financial fraud, RPF abuses, DM abuses, OSA abuses, and on and on. It's long, but you can find it here:
http://www.holysmoke.org/sm/tabayoyon.htm
FFL
http://www.holysmoke.org/sm/tabayoyon.htm
FFL
HappyGirl
Gold Meritorious Patron
The prosecuting attorney on the Wollersheim case was the ex-fiance of an attorney I work with. He had the largest prosecution firm in Los Angeles at the time. CoS completely destroyed his firm, and stalked them, etc. Although they won the case, neither he nor Wollersheim ever collected a dime. I don't know any attorney that would be willing to take on CoS at this point, but would be interested to hear of your adventures should you decide to sue CoS.30% commission is not so attractive if it means losing your livelihood. After a bit of research on what litigating against the CofS involves, attorneys seem to get put off a bit.
Hahaha! So true.
1. I achieved a state of total freedom, but there was no provision in the tech to actually attest to it. The promise is the Bridge to Total Freedom, but you can never get there. :confused2: I somehow found it on my own and CoS tried to destroy me.
2. Barnes video - first place I found out that sec checks on OT7 was out tech.
3. The stories of who LRH (and DM) really was, and the truth about who and how the tech was developed.
Great post Voldemorte! I am OTVlll and can totally relate to all that you've said..and I strongly believe that getting the OTVlls and Vllls out are the key to the rapid delcine of Scn..the reason you state above is exactly right on...it's the OTs that see the outpoints right away with a little prompting..and it's the OTs that are putting the big effort and bucks into Scn..take that out of the mix and bye-bye Flag and bye bye "church".
I am also working on asking for my over $120K back from IAS..there are many posts about how others did that. I'm going to draft a letter stating all the things I was told and all the things that are documented contrary to that and therefore fraudulent.
Keep going! You're doing great getting others out!
Rae
Thank you Voldemort for the story and more power to you.
Kookaburra
Gold Meritorious Patron
Voldemorte, firstly let me say congratulations on getting out and on helping others get out. Extracting people from Scientology seems to be very much a one on one operation. I don't know where you are but if you and a few friends get together and make a project of it, you could create the same sort of landslide we've had here in Australia. It's all word of mouth. Co$ has suppressed communication of its members for too long and now it's backfiring big time.
This is true, but you are missing something here.
I am Clear. I was on staff and in the SO for 16 years. And I can see outpoints. Not only can I see, them, I had to live them, eat them, wrestle with them, try to fix them, put up with them on a daily basis for year after year. And yes, I got plenty sick of busting my ass to get people up the bridge while being knocked off it myself by the myriads of inevitable sec checks, comm evs, power trips and assorted make-wrongs that come with the staff experience. Many times I was so close to packing it in, but something always stopped me. And that was?????
It was the chance to get out of the trap. It was "not just a matter of getting killed. It was a matter of getting killed and killed and killed, lifetime after lifetime for eternity. Versus attaining states where "nothing can strike you down". Perhaps only having one chance, one brief moment when you can grasp this opportunity. In a nutshell, the PR about OT.
Please realize that anyone below OT 3 has NO WAY OF KNOWING that this is bullshit. No way other than you telling them. The OT levels are so super secret, only delivered in a few places, special courserooms, materials under lock and key, supposedly because the data is so powerful that it will kill you if you access it too soon. BULLSHIT!!!! It's secret because no-one would ever do the upper bridge if they knew what was on it before they started. Please do not get so stuck in the confidentiality of the OT levels that you fail to warn those people who are dedicating their life to making people go OT that the OT levels are NOT the route to spiritual salvation. They are NOT the only way out, they are not even the best way, they may not be the way at all. What they ARE is the mystery sandwich used to keep people working and striving for years to finally have truth revealed. And the truth is "Hey folks, it's really all a big joke! There's not really any OT's. It was all a big money making scam and YOU'VE BEEN HAD!!!
If a few OTs had said that to me years ago, I wouldn't have spent half my adult life trying to get there, and so as not to be self-centred, trying to get other people to get there. If one OT had told me that, I may have thought there was out-tech on his case, or he was PTS or whatever, but if several OTs had actually said what they did and didn't get on the OT levels, I can tell you I would have had VERY SERIOUS DOUBTS about the bridge. And I think Scientology would have been history a long time ago.
Now that I am aware of what is on the OT levels, and I know what people do and do not get out of them, I wouldn't cross the street to get them. And I wouldn't work for Co$ no matter how much they paid me.
So Voldemorte, and any other OTs that read this post, please, please DE-MYSTIFY THIS OT SANDWICH for those that are below you on the bridge. You will save them tremendous amount of pain, time and money.
There is good reason that the OT levels are so confidential. It's not because they are powerful or will make you sick. It's because they are so much nonsense and unworkable that NO-ONE WOULD DO THE UPPER BRIDGE IF THEY KNEW WHAT IT WAS.
This is your key to handling Clears and below, and especially staff members, who give years of selfless service to give you your spiritual freedom. They need to know.
I wish you all the luck in the world on your campaign.
Kookaburra
Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks Zinj. Have I said it all or what? This thread came to a crashing halt.
EP - Ethics Particle
Gold Meritorious Patron
Not to worry!
Remember that the right indication can sorta have that effect!
As for me, lemme just give you a big "ack"; say thank you, and forward your very effective post to a few folks I know will take it on board - or at least think about it!
EP
Remember that the right indication can sorta have that effect!
As for me, lemme just give you a big "ack"; say thank you, and forward your very effective post to a few folks I know will take it on board - or at least think about it!
EP
voldemorte
Patron
Update
Hi all,
Well, things got interesting. One of the people who asked for help and information, turned 180 and decided that I was an SP. This is the one who had her daughter kidnapped, has a non-enturb order, etc. She ordered her hubby to disconnect, and she feels she needs to write us up to Flag, or maybe get someone to come to my house with an e-meter and "help."
I guess what's really astounding is how deep the church can truly brainwash. In some cases, life threatened, daughter kidnapped, bankrupt, etc, and still the hope exists of freedom. I've realized it's just truly sad.
I had another comm cycle with a new OT VIII and it was amazing what really got her to stop and think. It had to do with the concept of trusting the scripture 100%, and if you didn't agree, you had Misunderstood words. She was a supervisor, and admitted that even if she granted beingness to her students, she had the viewpoint that they were wrong if they didn't agree.
I then asked, how does that hold up since the basics were modified by "evil" transcriptionists. All that data that she was enforcing and forced to believe was just completely changed. How do you feel about that? She was truly speechless.
One earlier comment from her was that "if it's wrong, what do I have to live for?" Again, it is just very very sad to see how deeply the church has infiltrated the lives of everyone, and how in conflict if the real stated goals are freedom, freedom of thought, freedom to question, freedom to look, increased responsibility, freedom to change, freedom to live, freedom for your own happiness, freedom to love your children, family, AS LONG AS YOU DO WHAT THE GROUP SAYS.
I have to say that getting through the bridge to OT VII (6 years), I did not really feel free until I got out. Almost every scientologist I know is broke, unhappy, and pressured, but hope of freedom still reigns. I urge everyone to communicate as much as possible to existing Sci's as we all joined scientology with an intention to help. This is now how we can continue that intention. Keep leading everyone to the well, eventually, they will have to drink. People are kept in with agreement. Let's show them the agreement on the other side of the bridge.
Hi all,
Well, things got interesting. One of the people who asked for help and information, turned 180 and decided that I was an SP. This is the one who had her daughter kidnapped, has a non-enturb order, etc. She ordered her hubby to disconnect, and she feels she needs to write us up to Flag, or maybe get someone to come to my house with an e-meter and "help."
I guess what's really astounding is how deep the church can truly brainwash. In some cases, life threatened, daughter kidnapped, bankrupt, etc, and still the hope exists of freedom. I've realized it's just truly sad.
I had another comm cycle with a new OT VIII and it was amazing what really got her to stop and think. It had to do with the concept of trusting the scripture 100%, and if you didn't agree, you had Misunderstood words. She was a supervisor, and admitted that even if she granted beingness to her students, she had the viewpoint that they were wrong if they didn't agree.
I then asked, how does that hold up since the basics were modified by "evil" transcriptionists. All that data that she was enforcing and forced to believe was just completely changed. How do you feel about that? She was truly speechless.
One earlier comment from her was that "if it's wrong, what do I have to live for?" Again, it is just very very sad to see how deeply the church has infiltrated the lives of everyone, and how in conflict if the real stated goals are freedom, freedom of thought, freedom to question, freedom to look, increased responsibility, freedom to change, freedom to live, freedom for your own happiness, freedom to love your children, family, AS LONG AS YOU DO WHAT THE GROUP SAYS.
I have to say that getting through the bridge to OT VII (6 years), I did not really feel free until I got out. Almost every scientologist I know is broke, unhappy, and pressured, but hope of freedom still reigns. I urge everyone to communicate as much as possible to existing Sci's as we all joined scientology with an intention to help. This is now how we can continue that intention. Keep leading everyone to the well, eventually, they will have to drink. People are kept in with agreement. Let's show them the agreement on the other side of the bridge.
The 'other side of the bridge' is *not* agreement; it's affinity, which does not presupose agreement
Welcome to the *wide* world. Hell, it's not even affinity; I can think of any number of Scientologists I like more than people I *agree* with
Scientology wants simple. We are not simple. We are multifarious and complex and inchoate. And, more than L. Ron Hubbard ever dreamed of in His 'Philosophy'.
Zinj
Welcome to the *wide* world. Hell, it's not even affinity; I can think of any number of Scientologists I like more than people I *agree* with
Scientology wants simple. We are not simple. We are multifarious and complex and inchoate. And, more than L. Ron Hubbard ever dreamed of in His 'Philosophy'.
Zinj
voldemorte
Patron
The 'other side of the bridge' is *not* agreement; it's affinity, which does not presupose agreement
Welcome to the *wide* world. Hell, it's not even affinity; I can think of any number of Scientologists I like more than people I *agree* with
Scientology wants simple. We are not simple. We are multifarious and complex and inchoate. And, more than L. Ron Hubbard ever dreamed of in His 'Philosophy'.
Zinj
Perhaps I wasn't clear. What I intended to say was that there is agreement that scientology doesn't work. Not just their current world view that they receive due to fear from the church. Break down all of the "group" agreement they are enforced with, that the bridge is "the way to freedom" and show them that there are MANY others that do not agree.
SchwimmelPuckel
Genuine Meatball
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Gadfly
Crusader
Great spot-on points Pinchy!
I have so much experience and reality on BOTH of those points. V intelligently lays out some VERY excellent points about what keeps members in Scientology well past the point when he or she would rather not.
Whew, yes, communication is intentionally stifled in the Church environment because free communication would rapidly cause the illusion to fade and the charade to break down.
Grade 0 EP: Ability to communicate with anyone on any subject
Except if you do that in the Church, about situations you see that are far from optimum, you will most likely get declared a suppressive person. Able to communicate? What a farce.
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
Having the ability to do it doesn't mean actually doing it! I mean, you have the ability to go to a top floor window and jump out, but that doesn't mean it would be sensible to actually do it.
So in the CofS you gain the ability to talk to anyone about anything, but you also become smart enough to know not to actually do it. See?
Paul
Gadfly
Crusader
Having the ability to do it doesn't mean actually doing it! I mean, you have the ability to go to a top floor window and jump out, but that doesn't mean it would be sensible to actually do it.
So in the CofS you gain the ability to talk to anyone about anything, but you also become smart enough to know not to actually do it. See?
Paul
I do see! I thought of that when I wrote it.
Like all of the OTs who actually DO HAVE those amazing upper level abilities, but who choose NOT to use them.
I get it!