What's new
By:
Filters

Dean Wilbur Rhetoric Hubbard dianetics sicientology

Gib

Gib

Crusader
A perfect example of Hubbards use of the sublime from Tony O blog:

http://tonyortega.org/2013/08/26/what-motivated-l-ron-hubbard-historian-jon-atack-follows-the-clues/

"JON: In the 1952 book Scientology: 8.80, Hubbard described his goal in these words: “My purpose is to bring a barbarism out of the mud it thinks conceived it and to form, here on Earth, a civilization based on human understanding, not violence. That’s a big purpose. A broad field. A star-high goal.”
Click to expand...

Article 1, of the sublime style:

https://books.google.com/books?id=r...=onepage&q=sublime and belles lettres&f=false
 
Gib

Gib

Crusader
Gib

Gib

Crusader
Interesting tread by Caroline in 2011 over at OCMB on the connection by Hubbard, Campbell & Heinlein:

http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39380

http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39380&start=15

Caroline points out per the COS own website how Hubbard researched stories to write at the NY Library. Don't forget up above Hubbard told Heinlein the books to read:

http://writer.lronhubbard.org/page44.htm

Dean William Allen Wilbur wrote several books on rhetoric, one was English Rhetoric for his GWU course which Hubbard took. Another is called Modes of Imagination in English Rhetoric.

http://www.amazon.com/imagination-English-rhetoric-William-Wilbur/dp/B00086TZQQ
 
Gib

Gib

Crusader
In the 6 books hubbard mentions to Heinlein (post #79):

"Your request for the agentes techniques recalls me that this here area is shore revolutionary, pard. They just ain't ferget noth'in about Reconstruction. Down at the library, all the way back in the vault, are four full lengths shelves of books such as THE PSYCHOLOGY OF REVOLUTION, ERRORS MADE BY ROBESPIEPE, THE POWER OF THE RABBLE, LAWS GOVERNING LEVEE EN MASSE, HOME BOMB MANUFACTURE, ASSINATION AS A POLITICAL TECHNIGUE, etc. etc. for about three hundred big, authoritative volumes. And I never before seen a single one of them."
Click to expand...

Here's the second: ERRORS MADE BY ROBESPIEPE

Here's what I find as cliff notes:

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/reviews/2012-07-01/robespierre-s-rules-radicals
 
Gib

Gib

Crusader
In the 6 books hubbard mentions to Heinlein (post #79):



Here's the fourth: LAWS GOVERNING LEVEE EN MASSE

Here's what I find:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lev%C3%A9e_en_masse

(think Sea Org, para military group)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription

(Hubbard used Rhetoric in lieu of enforcement)
 
Last edited:
Gib

Gib

Crusader
In the 6 books hubbard mentions to Heinlein (post #79):



Here's the fifth: HOME BOMB MANUFACTURE

I don't have a clue.
 
Gib

Gib

Crusader
In the 6 books hubbard mentions to Heinlein (post #79):



Here's the sixth: ASSINATION AS A POLITICAL TECHNIGUE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_assassination

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

 
Leland

Leland

Crusader
Gib said:
Great post by Mike Rinder today entitled "Successes":

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/successes/

From Mike, beautifully said IMHO:



Hubbard incorporated Le Bons discoveries of the "crowd", what a self perpetuating hamster wheel.
Click to expand...

In addition to Mike Rinder's points above...in the link....

Cult members, finishing up a Course or Auditing procedure....also had to write a success story....because...it was on the "Routing Form." I guess, the end of the routing form....was sitting at the "reg's" desk....being asked to pay for your next step on the bridge.

But my point is....on kinda gave up some self determinism....because "one had to write a success story..." as it was the thing "that was done.." and all those staff or SO.....HAD to get that routing form filled in correctly. As far as I can remember...the reg always looked at it. If the success story had not been attached to the routing form.....you weren't really finished.

If you didn't want to write a success story....you'd have been sent to Ethics....or MAA....

One went along to get along....so wanting to or not.....people wrote success stories.

Interesting implications as to other points made on this thread too....
 
Gib

Gib

Crusader
The vary last line in 1950's Dianetics is:

"For God's sake, get busy and build a better bridge"

This is before scientology, only two years timeline wise.

When I read Dianetics back in 1987 and I never heard of Scientology either, that statement "For God's sake, get busy and build a better bridge" meant nothing to me, I only wanted to achieve the state of "clear" (now I know clear is sublime = lofty idea), or one could listen to David Mayo Illusions lecture where he says one could become clearer, which also means no such thing as clear and also OT.

(anybody can study a subject and become "clearer" , LOL)

Interestingly hubbard says bridge. Maybe we could deduce "crowd" as Le Bon explained in his books I reference above, which hubbard read, maybe "bridge" means "crowd", or "For God's sake, get busy and build a better [STRIKE]bridge[/STRIKE] crowd". Don't forget Hubbard said at the end he failed.

If one were to compare the scientology onion to the 6 six books hubbard mentioned to Heinlein, some interesting similarities occur.

Next up a chart to compare.











, "For God's sake, get busy and build a better bridge!"
 
Gib

Gib

Crusader
Great article by Jon Atack over at Tony O blog:

http://tonyortega.org/2015/10/31/jo...o-make-scientology-sound-sciencey/#more-26433

Jon Atack: The ‘Axioms’ — L. Ron Hubbard’s attempt to make Scientology sound ‘sciencey’

The first book hubbard mentions to Heinlein is this one, as mentioned above in the tread:

http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/448/pg448.txt

For you deep thinkers that wish to connect dots timeline wise.

Le Bon goes over 3 revolutions, namely scientific, political and religious.

Hubbard cleverly combines all three thru time, to create a crowd and revolution (but actually called it We seek no revolution but evolution to higher states of existence (sublime rhetoric - lofty idea).

The First is Dianetics the Modern SCIENCE of mental health, then scientology, the SCIENCE of certainty, then the religion angle (for tax purposes).

Le Bon gave hubbard the road map, and hubbard also gave the roadmap to Heinlein. But Heinlein was too stubborn, he wanted real proof, b/4 he would join the "winning team". This is back in 1949 b/4 the release of DMSMH, and if you care to read the Heinlien letters between Hubbard & Heinlein and between Campbell & Heinlien.
 
Last edited:
Gib

Gib

Crusader
Gib said:
I don't know if anybody has read the links I provided above regarding Le Bon's works. :confused2:

I surely hope people do other than me and Face.

Nor do I know if folks here have read the Heinlein letters between Hubbard and Robert Heinlein. I surely hope folks do.

BUT, since the Heinlein letters between Hubbard give an insight, I thought to check out the John Campbell letters between himself and Heinlein.

Here's the link on the file:

http://heinleinarchives.net/upload/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=893

It costs two bucks to get it.

In reading that file of letters today between Campbell & Heinlein, you'll eyes will be even more opened. And I hope somebody with a better brain than me will read those letters between Campbell & Heinlein. While the Heinlein letters to Hubbard are important, these letters back and forth between Heinlein & Campbell are even more important, much more so. Just about every letter is about dianetics and more insightful. Campbell is a talking festival.

snip
Click to expand...

In the Heinlein letters archive, the ones between Campbell & Heinlein, it's 124 pages, pdf doc saved to one's computer.

In the file, a letter dated July 27, 1950 from Campbell to Heinlein. This is the time period just after when Dianetics hit the stands, and Hubbard is setting up Dianetics Foundations, in the letter Campbell mentions to Heinlein that Dr. Leo West is heading up Chicago, Dr. Price & Howard Hyatt is heading up Washington, and AE van Vogt Los Angeles.

Campbell also mentions to Heinlein that Mrs. Carey Grant and Hayakawa have showed up in the Foundations.

Here's Hayakawa and his review of Dianetics in the Summer of 1951:

http://www.jstor.org/stable/42580983?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

http://www.lisamcpherson.org/hayakawa.htm

"I have long felt that there are dangers to the writer as well as to the reader in pulp fiction. It did not occur to me until I read Dianetics to try to analyze the special dangers entailed in the profession of science-fiction writing. The art consists in concealing from the reader, for novelistic purposes, the distinctions between established scientific facts, almost-established scientific hypotheses, scientific conjectures, and imaginative extrapolations far beyond what has even been conjectured. The danger of this technique lies in the fact that, if the writer of science-fiction writes too much of it too fast and too glibly and is not endowed from the beginning with a high degree of semantic self-insight (consciousness of abstracting), he may eventually succeed in concealing the distinction between his facts and his imaginings from himself. In other words, the space-ships and the men of Mars and the atomic disintegrator pistols acquire so vivid a verbal existence that they may begin to have, in the writer's evaluations, 'actual' existence. Like Willy Loman in The Death of a Salesman, he may eventually fall for his own, pitch."
Click to expand...

Hayakawa nails it to a tee. What a few years later we have Hubbard going on about OT in the PDC's. Add in the silly emeter with it's endless evaluations of reads, add in Hubbards ability to use Rhetoric and Sublime Rhetoric,

a stupid religion is born to persuade, and that he did to me.

PS: For those that don't know, Campbell became a trained Dianetics auditor auditing others and himself got audited, and was fully a believer until he finally told Heinlein he left Hubbards Dianetics. It's all explained in the letters which I can't post since they are copyrighted.
 
Last edited:
Gib

Gib

Crusader
:thumbsup:
Gib said:
In the Heinlein letters archive, the ones between Campbell & Heinlein, it's 124 pages, pdf doc saved to one's computer.

In the file, a letter dated July 27, 1950 from Campbell to Heinlein. This is the time period just after when Dianetics hit the stands, and Hubbard is setting up Dianetics Foundations, in the letter Campbell mentions to Heinlein that Dr. Leo West is heading up Chicago, Dr. Price & Howard Hyatt is heading up Washington, and AE van Vogt Los Angeles.

Campbell also mentions to Heinlein that Mrs. Carey Grant and Hayakawa have showed up in the Foundations.

Here's Hayakawa and his review of Dianetics in the Summer of 1951:

http://www.jstor.org/stable/42580983?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

http://www.lisamcpherson.org/hayakawa.htm



Hayakawa nails it to a tee. What a few years later we have Hubbard going on about OT in the PDC's. Add in the silly emeter with it's endless evaluations of reads, add in Hubbards ability to use Rhetoric and Sublime Rhetoric,

a stupid religion is born to persuade, and that he did to me.

PS: For those that don't know, Campbell became a trained Dianetics auditor auditing others and himself got audited, and was fully a believer until he finally told Heinlein he left Hubbards Dianetics. It's all explained in the letters which I can't post since they are copyrighted.
Click to expand...

Thank you!

Jon & Tony :thumbsup:

http://tonyortega.org/2016/01/08/jo...s-in-scientologys-bible-dianetics/#more-27791
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top