DM's 2nd passport
- Thread starter Lohan2008
- Start date
LOADED WITH VISTARIL, SCOTCH AND TANNING OIL and an assortment of high heels and wigs!!
The_Fixer
Class Clown
Ukraine?
Ogsonofgroo
Crusader
*other* ~ DM doesn't need a '2nd passport' to run away, and I'm sure his buddies in the Colombian cartels (read 'military') would be happy to get him citizenship down south or something like that 
He has managed to milk quite a personal fortune out of his cult followers and investments, so I am pretty sure he'd be welcomed by any corruptly run country (which could be why he's hung around for as long as he has). Just a wee mornin' thought.
He has managed to milk quite a personal fortune out of his cult followers and investments, so I am pretty sure he'd be welcomed by any corruptly run country (which could be why he's hung around for as long as he has). Just a wee mornin' thought.
Dean Blair
Silver Meritorious Patron
He may be planning to meet up with L Ron on target two after he kills himself. In that case he won't need a passport as the Marcabians don't recognize earth passports used for interplanetary travel.
oneonewasaracecar
Gold Meritorious Patron
Van Allen Belt?
Ralph Hilton
Patron Meritorious
Unbelievable as it might seem, DM believes that he is the saviour of mankind. If he were just after money he could have milked off enough to retire in riches a long time ago. He will be there until he dies unless someone ousts him. LRH had multiple accounts in many countries. DM probably has done the same. I doubt if he has less than 5 bolt holes for emergencies.
Cat's Squirrel
Gold Meritorious Patron
You're right Ralph, it is unbelievable - but only he knows for sure. Maybe the reason he wants to be "there for life" (if he does) is that he understandably fears what would happen if others get to have power over him after all he's done to them.
Mick Wenlock
Admin Emeritus (retired)
I agree with the basic premise Ralph and it is something that I have said before - in fact it was the essence of my first post on ARS.
People underestimate Miscavige and have done for a very long time. He basically beat out his rivals to wrest control of a multinational operation that was worth hundreds of millions and he did it when he was in his twenties. He has no formal education and yet he has fended off investigations and attacks, backed off probably the most feared of the uS government agencies and has found a way to squeeze, syphon and force money out of an ever decreasing "flock" and. moreover to get it firmly under his thumb.
If he was merely after money he could, safely, move on tomorrow and enjoy a luxurious retirement and I doubt very much that he would need to worry about extradition.
I think he does see himself as some sort of Kwisatz Haderach of Scientology and part of the saving of mankind command team, in my working with him I never doubted for a minute that he was sincere in his delusions.
I do think he has plans on what to do in the event of a successful attack that brings down the church and threatens his freedom. I am sure that he has, at all times, enough wherewithal on him to get anywhere in the world and knows how to get the money he needs from the various accounts. AS you say I am sure he has boltholes set up. He does not trust anyone except himself.
Ogsonofgroo
Crusader
Mick said:
Lol, I read that as 'comedy team'
I think he knows full well its all a scam, but he is so deep in the lie he'll never admit it, ever. Greed can be an amazing motivator, power even more so. Just my opinion on it
Veda
Sponsor
How do you think Miscavige regards Hubbard having lied to Scientologists about there being "15 levels above OT 7 fully developed but existing only in unissued note form..." ?
What does Miscavige tell himself about this? Does he rationalize it? Does he quietly recognize that Hubbard lied to Scientologists? And how exactly does he plan to save Mankind without those additional OT levels?
If he reached out to you for your above-OT 8 research, and promised to reform the organization if you helped him, would you?
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
Miscaviage has to have all of Alan Walter's processes. He was recording tim from a station wagon outside Alan's lead auditor's room in 1995. He could have incorporated them into Scientology any time in the two decades.
He seems committed to only Hubbard words, though edited.
ILove2Lurk
Lisbeth Salander
. . .
DM only sleeps on America’s most expensive mattress . . . the
E. S. Kluft Beyond Luxury Sublime, secretly photographed
here at one of his many apartments around the world, which are
all kept available and ready for his stays at a moment's notice.
Each Kluft Mattress is handcrafted by a bedding artisan and the
Beyond Luxury Sublime is no exception. Made with a blend of
cashmere, silk, exotic wools, high-quality horsehair, certified
organic cotton and all-natural Talaly latex . . . of course.
E. S. Kluft Beyond Luxury Sublime, secretly photographed
here at one of his many apartments around the world, which are
all kept available and ready for his stays at a moment's notice.
Each Kluft Mattress is handcrafted by a bedding artisan and the
Beyond Luxury Sublime is no exception. Made with a blend of
cashmere, silk, exotic wools, high-quality horsehair, certified
organic cotton and all-natural Talaly latex . . . of course.
Last edited:
Cat's Squirrel
Gold Meritorious Patron
Maybe, but you could also argue the following, which seem plausible to me;
1 / People who join the CofS and serve on staff are likely to have spiritual motives and perhaps a certain unworldliness, which would be at odds with the naked power grab we saw from Davey in the early 80s, especially when executed with near psychopathic ruthlessness. If Davey were trying to wrest control of a "wog" crime syndicate and was up against genuinely dangerous people, or was trying to operate in the outwardly more genteel but equally ruthless corporate world, I think he'd have met his match by now.
2 / On the matter of the US government, you could also argue that it suits them to have a strong CofS and a cynic like Davey in charge of it. They had no trouble booting the Rajneeshis out of the US in the 1980s when they stuffed up (by poisoning people to try to fix an election in Oregon), and I doubt the CofS would fare any better if the US government were equally determined to cut them down to size.
Last edited:
Veda
Sponsor
Wrest control? From whom?
Hubbard placed the Commodore's Messenger Org above the GO, and Miscavige became, with Hubbard's approval, the de facto General Manager of Scientology.
And of what was Miscavige the General Manager? A group of people who had been subjected for years, some for decades, to Hubbard's ideas and methods to "assert and maintain dominion over thoughts and loyalties," to use Hubbard's secretly written own words.
Almost thirty years ago, Martin Samuels, former Mission holder and founder of the Delphian school, made these observations:
Hubbard operated according to a couple of key patterns.
The first pattern involved basically decent well intentioned people... no one was able to rise in the organization to a point of any real proximity to him, without being attacked and vilified...
And of course the next person thinks he or she is immune...
The next pattern: It's reap and rape. Hubbard would let the reins loose. He'd let people believe they really could get on with it... He'd let people believe they really could prosper to the full extent of their own ability, and enjoy the fruits of their labor.
And, with that kind of freedom, prosperity does occur, Inevitably, though, he'd come along and rape and pillage and rip off and take what had been produced. The most dramatic example of this was '82, '83, when he 'raped' his most decent people in management along with the mission holders, and looted the entire mission network.
And look at this pattern... He surrounded himself with absolute hooligans as 'managers'; guys who beat the shit out of people. This man, who 'is this OT, the author of Science of Survival, completely able to predict human behavior', surrounded himself with ruthless people - like Miscavige - who got there because they emulated Hubbard's savagery. They emulated his total willingness to completely break, use, and discard another person.
And then after their hands were so bloody - and the only reason their hands were bloody was that they were doing what Hubbard wanted - when it finally started to get to the point where it couldn't be tolerated by people anymore, Hubbard wiped them out. Then he said. 'My God! I didn't know!' Scapegoat. He even did that to his own wife, who went to jail in his place...
Miscavige's great, and most impressive, accomplishment was the subduing of the IRS, culminating in the events of 1993. That changed the game. Quietly realizing that Hubbard had screwed him by leaving him with a gnarly middle "Bridge" and no upper "Bridge," Miscavige made the best of what he got: a bunch of money and property, and a brainwashed submissive rank and file.
Cat's Squirrel
Gold Meritorious Patron
Wrest control? From whom?
Hubbard placed the Commodore's Messenger Org above the GO, and Miscavige became, with Hubbard's approval, the de facto General Manager of Scientology.
And of what was Miscavige the General Manager? A group of people who had been subjected for years, some for decades, to Hubbard's ideas and methods to "assert and maintain dominion over thoughts and loyalties," to use Hubbard's secretly written own words.
Almost thirty years ago, Martin Samuels, former Mission holder and founder of the Delphian school, made these observations:
Hubbard operated according to a couple of key patterns.
The first pattern involved basically decent well intentioned people... no one was able to rise in the organization to a point of any real proximity to him, without being attacked and vilified...
And of course the next person thinks he or she is immune...
The next pattern: It's reap and rape. Hubbard would let the reins loose. He'd let people believe they really could get on with it... He'd let people believe they really could prosper to the full extent of their own ability, and enjoy the fruits of their labor.
And, with that kind of freedom, prosperity does occur, Inevitably, though, he'd come along and rape and pillage and rip off and take what had been produced. The most dramatic example of this was '82, '83, when he 'raped' his most decent people in management along with the mission holders, and looted the entire mission network.
And look at this pattern... He surrounded himself with absolute hooligans as 'managers'; guys who beat the shit out of people. This man, who 'is this OT, the author of Science of Survival, completely able to predict human behavior', surrounded himself with ruthless people - like Miscavige - who got there because they emulated Hubbard's savagery. They emulated his total willingness to completely break, use, and discard another person.
And then after their hands were so bloody - and the only reason their hands were bloody was that they were doing what Hubbard wanted - when it finally started to get to the point where it couldn't be tolerated by people anymore, Hubbard wiped them out. Then he said. 'My God! I didn't know!' Scapegoat. He even did that to his own wife, who went to jail in his place...
Miscavige's great, and most impressive, accomplishment was the subduing of the IRS, culminating in the events of 1993. That changed the game. Quietly realizing that Hubbard had screwed him by leaving him with a gnarly middle "Bridge" and no upper "Bridge," Miscavige made the best of what he got: a bunch of money and property, and a brainwashed submissive rank and file.
Some fair points there, but;
Do you think Miscavige had enough perception back then to know whether the middle bridge was "gnarly" or not, or about what if anything lay beyond the top of the existing Bridge? As far as I know he himself never made it to Clear (as the CofS uses the term).
Your other points (about the brutality of CofS management prior to 1982, and Hubbard's role in that); I don't know but I'll take your word for it. I only really know about Alex Sibersky travelling around the UK terrorising the staff into submission in the mid-70's (Paul writes about his own dealings with the guy at one point).
Mick Wenlock
Admin Emeritus (retired)
Well that is fair enough in the realm of speculation - but you are ignoring what he DID and referring to what might have happened if he were in a totally different milieu. he used the tools he had to get what he wanted. Would he have been able to do so within another organization? well we can go back and forth about it but its a little like arguing that he would never have made it in the Russian mob because he didn't speak the language and that this somehow proves he is not tough.
[/quote]
you are making an unsubstantiated claim - that the US government has some sort of coordinated policy regarding cults - based on no evidence that I can determine and then using that basis to speculate that the achievement was less than it appeared.
Seeing as the US government DID go after the CofS and DID convict the GO leadership and DID send people to jail - I think your speculation is wildly off the mark.
Ralph Hilton
Patron Meritorious
NOTs changed things a lot. I think Hubbard was surprised by how long NOTs would run on people. Whatever structure Hubbard might have had when he wrote about those 15 levels was probably rendered invalid by discoveries relating to it. I daresay DM was pissed off that more material wasn't available to release later. I doubt if he has any people who could help develop levels above 8. He is up shit creek without a paddle and the odor is becoming noticeable.
The development of OT8 is impossible anyway under the current oppressive regime.
If DM abolished the Sea Org with its military structure, instituted a fair working week with a liveable wage for staff with proper health care and pension, removed restrictions on staff having families, paid compensation to all persons he had abused physically, agreed to a set of rights for staff members including freedom from abusive treatment, reduced prices for services to an affordable level and 30 or so other conditions yet to be thought of then I would consider helping him. I anticipate, however, that the first landing of a manned human spaceship in the Markab system will precede such an occurence.