do scientologist pray?

[lisinipril]

Do people in Scio ask any great creator for help? the religion seems more founded on the basis of *ME* and only I can save me.. also do scio people ask other people for help? What god does an OT 8 scream for when she is trapped under a train after a derailment and she cant get out? Has anyone of you called on a god not approved by the church when you where a member? Like if ever in a convience store as a robbery took place or been in a car accident and just muttered or thought oh *insert religous savior here* please dont let me die!!!?

 

[Tiger Lily]

Lisinipril you have great questions.

I can think of a few answers to that question

1.

2. for new public: "Scientology doesn't intrude on the 8th dynamic; you are free to worship as you choose" (this sounds good and actually was one of the things that attracted me to Scientology -- the idea that it encompassed all religions. But, I only ever heard this idea in div6, otherwise the only references to God were snide references to not having any contract with a "big thetan" and such)

3. You are a God. If you are in such a situation you pulled it in and you'd look at your own ethics, not look for help outside yourself. You want to be "at cause" not "at effect".

4. LRH set himself up as source, and is portrayed as perfect, infallible, loving, etc. . . there's an implication there, but I've never heard of anyone praying to him.

Can't wait to read the responses to this one!

TL

 

[Panda Termint]

Most scientologists that I know pray regularly; they pray that they can get through whatever they're doing without encountering a Registrar or an SO Recruiter.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Do people in Scio ask any great creator for help? the religion seems more founded on the basis of *ME* and only I can save me.. also do scio people ask other people for help? What god does an OT 8 scream for when she is trapped under a train after a derailment and she cant get out? Has anyone of you called on a god not approved by the church when you where a member? Like if ever in a convience store as a robbery took place or been in a car accident and just muttered or thought oh *insert religous savior here* please dont let me die!!!?

Well, for one thing, Scientologists aren't one big amorphous lump hive mind. (We leave that up to the Anons. heh.) Everyone's different and everyone has their own choices.

The Church of Scientology doesn't approve or reject gods though it doesn't include god worship in any of its services. Same with the Freezone.

Given the antagonistic tone of your post, I'm tempted to tell you it's none of your business- which it isn't- but I'll go ahead and answer. I personally do still pray and never stopped. I am a Scientologist.

 

[Free to shine]

No - scientologists don't pray to anything in scientology. (Unless they are doing what Panda says.)

 

[Wisened One]

Well when I was a brand new person just finding out what scn was, I was told that there were even priests and nuns that were practicing scn's. (I was a devout Catholic convert at the time). And the Reg told me that as a way to ease my mind if I could be any religion I wanted and still be a scn....

When I was a Div 6'er: We automatically told all new people that they could be any religion they wanted and be a scn (yet inside, rolling our eyes, and realizing that before they got to far in scn, they'd only accept scn and most likely reject their prev religions).

I personally had never met any OT's that was also some other religion, or prayed.

It was sorta....idk....discouraged (imho) to believe in any 'higher power' 'outside power' kinda thing.

Like others said: YOU are your 'own' God and are at 'complete cause' over your own life, and if anything at all went wrong in your life, YOU were to look over WHY and correct it....

Now believe it or not....I'm NOT completely against this idea even now in my life...YET...idk about the complete cause thing....I can't explain what I mean, either....maybe I'll return to this post and try to explain later.

What I'm trying to say is: I don't think that one can 100% completely cause and control EVERY SINGLE thing about their mind, body, life.

I mean take medical conditions/diseases for example: I've known many, many people who ate perfectly, took all the proper vitamins, exercised, etc.etc.. all the stuff one's supposed to do to prevent getting ill, and they'll get Cancer....and even die from it...even at a young age....see? And I bet they've even been 'good people' and didn't 'pull it in' cuz of some 'out-ethics' either!

Stuff like that.

I think to a certain degree, that we are at the mercy of some issues... if say...one's genetics predisposed one to getting certain illnesses, how can one really stop/change THAT?

I'm still not able to explain myself all that well, damn it.

 

[Tiger Lily]

I'm still not able to explain myself all the well, damn it.

Wisened one -- oh, yes you are!!! I got that perfectly.

I remember doing the same to my "antagonistic" friends -- telling them that the 8th dynamic was God and everyone in Scientology was free to determine their own truth about that. . . all the while knowing that I was being led "on a gradient" away from any belief in a supreme being or creator apart from myself.

And don't worry; it's OK to not have certainty about the nature of the universe. . . in fact I find that very freeing. :wink2:

Love,
TL

 

[Wisened One]

Thanks, TL

Trying to articulate what I really mean about these issues always ties my mind up in a knot...cuz I meet myself at every pass of everything I think/type out, ya know what I mean?


Cuz....I don't wanna sound like I think we are 'victims' in any way and DON'T have control...yet....like I said previously, I don't believe we are at 100% cause either...at least at our coagulated personality-in-a-body level anyway....arrggh! I still don't feel satisfied with what I'm trying to impart!!!

 

[DCAnon]

Thanks, TL

Trying to articulate what I really mean about these issues always ties my mind up in a knot...cuz I meet myself at every pass of everything I think/type out, ya know what I mean?


Cuz....I don't wanna sound like I think we are 'victims' in any way and DON'T have control...yet....like I said previously, I don't believe we are at 100% cause either...at least at our coagulated personality-in-a-body level anyway....arrggh! I still don't feel satisfied with what I'm trying to impart!!!

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference. - Reinhold Niebuhr

 

[Tiger Lily]

Thanks, TL

Trying to articulate what I really mean about these issues always ties my mind up in a knot...cuz I meet myself at every pass of everything I think/type out, ya know what I mean?


Cuz....I don't wanna sound like I think we are 'victims' in any way and DON'T have control...yet....like I said previously, I don't believe we are at 100% cause either...at least at our coagulated personality-in-a-body level anyway....arrggh! I still don't feel satisfied with what I'm trying to impart!!!

lol -- you are definitely the smiley queen of ESMB!

I know, I struggle with that too; how much control do we have over our circumstances. You sure see the triumph of the human spirit and people overcoming disabilities and diseases all the time, but not always, and there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it sometimes.

It sure was nice when we had all the answers, wasn't it.

TL

 

[Wisened One]

lol -- you are definitely the smiley queen of ESMB!

Well.....gotta express myself accurately ya know.....

I know, I struggle with that too; how much control do we have over our circumstances. You sure see the triumph of the human spirit and people overcoming disabilities and diseases all the time, but not always, and there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it sometimes.

Yeah! EXACTLY! :confused2:And scn always gave me the impression that you COULD 'rhyme and reason' 100% of the time and on every dynamic, issue, etc!

It sure was nice when we had all the answers, wasn't it.

TL

Yeah! It was! Well, when we THOUGHT we had all the answers, anyways....

And I'm not even doubting that JUST that KNOWLEDGE alone didn't maybe push us to 'get over' illnesses quicker, or push thru odds of one kind or another in our lives, but (imo) I do NOT think it was actual scn that caused us to do that!

It was simply inspiration and perhaps others' belief and support in our overcoming whatever obstacles in our lives that helped us to overcome things.

 

[ExVet]

In my 30 years of on staff/in the SO, I only saw scientologists "pray" during Sunday Service by reciting the Prayer for Total Freedom. That was the public face of prayer. But behind closed doors, I vividly recall in the early '80's an Evaluator being sent to Ethics and Cramming for being caught under her desk praying for her eval to get approved after it had been rejected numerous times! The charge was "other practices." (True story!)

 

[Wisened One]

In my 30 years of on staff/in the SO, I only saw scientologists "pray" during Sunday Service by reciting the Prayer for Total Freedom. That was the public face of prayer. But behind closed doors, I vividly recall in the early '80's an Evaluator being sent to Ethics and Cramming for being caught under her desk praying for her eval to get approved after it had been rejected numerous times! The charge was "other practices." (True story!)

I believe ya, ExVet! Crazy, isn't it? And to ESMB, btw!

 

[justaguy]

I would like to thumbs up DCAnon's quote. That's a good one.

Thanks, TL

Trying to articulate what I really mean about these issues always ties my mind up in a knot...cuz I meet myself at every pass of everything I think/type out, ya know what I mean?


Cuz....I don't wanna sound like I think we are 'victims' in any way and DON'T have control...yet....like I said previously, I don't believe we are at 100% cause either...at least at our coagulated personality-in-a-body level anyway....arrggh! I still don't feel satisfied with what I'm trying to impart!!!

Have you considered that maybe it's not you that having trouble communicating, but the inability of language to communicate things at this level? I find language is a helpful reminder when talking about stuff like this, but it's something you understand on a level deeper than language.

 

[Wisened One]

I agree with justaguy on DCA's post, that always was a beautiful prayer!

And VERY well-said, justaguy! .....on language and how there are some things that can't really be stated in words, but can only be imparted/understood on a deeper level. Thanks!

 

[FinallyFree]

When I was 15 or 16 a friend of my Mom's was explaining to us why she started praying after being in Scn for years. She stated it made her auditing better. She actually stated that when she included praying in any application of Scn it made the tech work better for her. It confused me greatly. It was my understanding (as a scilon) that praying WAS other practices. That Scn who had "really gotten it" didn't pray because they knew the "true way" and that didn't include God or praying. - this is just my impression from how I was introduced to Scn by by Scn family. I was not shown everything in writing - we did a lot of method 7 (word clearing) when I was learning about Scn from family. I was also aware of the scn belief that God didn't exist and Scn was the ONLY way. - kind of strange considering Scn promotes to public that it is non-denominational and you can be in any religion and be in Scn. When you are actually fully in you are given a different picture. At least that is how it happened for me!

 

[Tiger Lily]

And I'm not even doubting that JUST that KNOWLEDGE alone didn't maybe push us to 'get over' illnesses quicker, or push thru odds of one kind or another in our lives, but (imo) I do NOT think it was actual scn that caused us to do that!

It was simply inspiration and perhaps others' belief and support in our overcoming whatever obstacles in our lives that helped us to overcome things.

I've seen that so many times! The human spirit is an amazing thing!

I would like to thumbs up DCAnon's quote. That's a good one.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference. - Reinhold Niebuhr

DCA I love that prayer!

Have you considered that maybe it's not you that having trouble communicating, but the inability of language to communicate things at this level? I find language is a helpful reminder when talking about stuff like this, but it's something you understand on a level deeper than language.

Spot on on both counts!! Great post justaguy!

TL

 

[ExVet]

When I was 15 or 16 a friend of my Mom's was explaining to us why she started praying after being in Scn for years. She stated it made her auditing better. She actually stated that when she included praying in any application of Scn it made the tech work better for her. It confused me greatly. It was my understanding (as a scilon) that praying WAS other practices. That Scn who had "really gotten it" didn't pray because they knew the "true way" and that didn't include God or praying. - this is just my impression from how I was introduced to Scn by by Scn family. I was not shown everything in writing - we did a lot of method 7 (word clearing) when I was learning about Scn from family. I was also aware of the scn belief that God didn't exist and Scn was the ONLY way. - kind of strange considering Scn promotes to public that it is non-denominational and you can be in any religion and be in Scn. When you are actually fully in you are given a different picture. At least that is how it happened for me!

I changed my mind after I got out. Hubbard isn't Source. God is. That's simpler and works better for me. Just my own personal opinion.

 

[ExVet]

Sorry, my bad for the double post. Was interrupted by a beautiful baby boy tugging at my shirt sleeve.

 

[uniquemand]

Do people in Scio ask any great creator for help? the religion seems more founded on the basis of *ME* and only I can save me.. also do scio people ask other people for help? What god does an OT 8 scream for when she is trapped under a train after a derailment and she cant get out? Has anyone of you called on a god not approved by the church when you where a member? Like if ever in a convience store as a robbery took place or been in a car accident and just muttered or thought oh *insert religous savior here* please dont let me die!!!?

Technically, no, Scientologists don't pray, as in request something or attempt to communicate with a deity, as part of their religion or daily activity. However, an individual Scientologist might decide to try to communicate with a deity, or enlist the aid of a non-material entity.

Scientologists believe that intention is causative. They also recognize the concept of "other-intention" and "counter-intention". They might, therefore, attempt to make their intentions known, or discover sources of other-intention/counter-intention, and then "as-is" them, or bring those sources into alignment with their own intention.

They also have the concept of Dynamics. Of these, there are 8. The first dynamic is understood as self, second as family/sex/marriage, third as group/company/organization, fourth as race ("mankind"), fifth as all life forms, sixth as physical universe (matter/energy/space/time), seventh is spirit/souls/theta universe, eighth is the supreme being or eternity dynamic. A scientologists idea of how to get an intention into realization would be to align all aspects of all of their dynamics to have no counter or other-intentionedness with regard to the "prayer" intention.