Not nice.
+++++++
Hope the person realizes.
Does Space have Fabric?
- Thread starter Vinaire
- Start date
Hope the person realizes.
uniquemand
Unbeliever
uniquemand
Unbeliever
I could, but this is not the thread for it. In fact, I think I already have. However, I think Timothy Leary did a better job of it in his "Info-Psychology" - Leary, Timothy. 1987. Falcon Press. (revision of "Exo-Psychology")(ISBN 1-56184-105-6)
La La Lou Lou
Crusader
Zorg I wasn't trying to be nasty. LSD can give you this type of experience, it did to me, and yet the recruiter insisted that it wasn't LSD I took, so that I became a stat.
It seemed like the lights where turned to twice the brightness, I felt a breeze on my face, and felt the speed the planet was travelling at. I had a very strong feeling that the universe was not really there but like a holographic 3d image. I also felt open and enlightened, and a very strong affinity.
Your experience sounds wonderful, and I am not knocking it. Meditation can make these things happen. Chemicals can too.
Marijuana definitely didn't help enlightenment, the universe became darker, rubbery and colourless and I became paranoid.
That was all before I became a drug free scientologist. Then I had moments of understanding on basic courses but nothing amazing, then after a while the only strange experiences were the hallucinations from lack of sleep and food.
I have come across people who had LSD trips 30 years after they took the stuff. Not good ones either, weird scary trips. I had been lucky.
It seemed like the lights where turned to twice the brightness, I felt a breeze on my face, and felt the speed the planet was travelling at. I had a very strong feeling that the universe was not really there but like a holographic 3d image. I also felt open and enlightened, and a very strong affinity.
Your experience sounds wonderful, and I am not knocking it. Meditation can make these things happen. Chemicals can too.
Marijuana definitely didn't help enlightenment, the universe became darker, rubbery and colourless and I became paranoid.
That was all before I became a drug free scientologist. Then I had moments of understanding on basic courses but nothing amazing, then after a while the only strange experiences were the hallucinations from lack of sleep and food.
I have come across people who had LSD trips 30 years after they took the stuff. Not good ones either, weird scary trips. I had been lucky.
uniquemand
Unbeliever
Thanks, for that, La La Lou Lou. I've had the scaries, too. I don't necessarily recommend it for others! Was good for me.
uniquemand
Unbeliever
You sounded like you were promoing a drug of your liking
La La Lou Lou
Crusader
How could Uniquemand become a dealer look at the face on the Avatar, a real pussycat!
Student of Trinity
Silver Meritorious Patron
Well, but in a sense we do see everywhere, or pretty close to it. It is consistent with all the data we can see, that everything we see once occupied a much smaller volume. But the thing is, we will probably never see anything from outside that volume, or be affected by it in any way — because our volume is expanding too rapidly for light to reach us from outside it. So for practical purposes, our entire universe was once small and hot, and has expanded and cooled. Anything beyond our vision is probably forever irrelevant to us; it might as well be another universe.
Or maybe not. Maybe there are wormholes. Or maybe we'll learn to see even earlier, more distant signals, and they'll start showing a new pattern. But the Big Bang theory is not just arbitrary or naive. It's got a pretty impressive combination of simplicity and accuracy. For what it's worth, as a hypothesis it ran dead against all theoretical prejudice at the time it was introduced, and won acceptance in the teeth of strong opposition.
About space holding objects: maybe I just don't understand your concern, but I suspect you may simply be reading too much in to the notion that 'space is nothing'. Space is pretty insubstantial, I grant. But I wouldn't exactly call it nothing.
For instance, no force I know of, not even the hottest supernova, can hold back the course of time. Each instant will pass, and the next succeed, and pass in its turn. It as though everything is stuck to a moving treadmill that drags us steadily into the future. What force can hold everything so tightly? And yet it is not really a force. It is simply the nature of time and of existence in time. To ask what holds us fast to the treadmill of time is really only to ask what holds the present ... in the present.
In the same way we can ask what holds us within the three dimensions of space. There are some (entirely speculative) theories according to which our three dimensions are simply a sort of interface between hypervolumes in a space of higher dimensionality, and we and everything we see simply happen to be stuck in this interface region, like leaves floating on a river, held by surface tension between air and water. In those theories there are various forces that hold us within our three dimensional space. These forces are not simply 'nothing'.
Alternatively, there may simply not be any more than three dimensions. Then there is simply nowhere else to go, except to follow the curvature of spacetime. There does not have to be any fifth dimension into which spacetime is expanding, and into which objects could in principle escape. The theory of curved spacetime is formulated entirely in terms of four-dimensional geometry, without reference to any higher dimensions.
How can space expand without expanding into some higher dimension? Well, perhaps you could imagine that no points of space are moving anywhere, and that the expansion of the universe is simply that inches and light years are subject to inflation. The same chocolate bar that cost fifty cents ten years ago costs a dollar today. The same set of points in space that measured ten light years a while ago measure twenty light years now. Nothing has to move.
Anyway, to me the bottom line is that if your definition of 'nothing' means something that can't possibly confine objects, then space does not fit your definition of 'nothing'. In some sense, it is something.
La La Lou Lou
Crusader
You Russians are so decisive and controversial!
I think conclusions are not allowed on this thread.
I think conclusions are not allowed on this thread.
Auditor's Toad
Clear as Mud
Gadfly
Crusader
Wow, finally something here that makes some sense.
Yep, my fabric has space too!
I have been having some really deep thoughts about the "fabric of my shirts" and "the fabric of my sheets". And, since they all exist "in space", there ya go - there is no end to the fabric(s) in space!
++++++++++
The Great Zorg
Gold Meritorious Patron
Fucking Russians!
Sorry Vlad; I'm Ukrainian descent... still working on removing my programmed hatred of everything and anything Russian.
Голодомор
You're Ok though.
So is Russia. Now.
I hope my family doesn't see me writing this.
...and now back to our previously scheduled discussion on the fabric of space and...
Mimsey Borogrove
Crusader
big bang - who lit a match to it?
What I don't get about the big bang is what proceeded it. It seems to be basic physics, you can't just have a bunch of something just appear and explode. About the only explaination I have is this universe was created by the implosion of a giant black hole creating another universe and spewing all of the matter through out it.
It kinda reminds me of the end of Men in Black II a universe in a universe ad infinitum like those nesting russian
dolls.
Some thing I saw on line the other day - somebody thought the universe proceeded from a straight line. WTF? That really doesn't make any sense.
I can't claim to have studied the Big Bang theory in any detail, what does it say proceeded it?
Mimsey
What I don't get about the big bang is what proceeded it. It seems to be basic physics, you can't just have a bunch of something just appear and explode. About the only explaination I have is this universe was created by the implosion of a giant black hole creating another universe and spewing all of the matter through out it.
It kinda reminds me of the end of Men in Black II a universe in a universe ad infinitum like those nesting russian
dolls.Some thing I saw on line the other day - somebody thought the universe proceeded from a straight line. WTF? That really doesn't make any sense.
I can't claim to have studied the Big Bang theory in any detail, what does it say proceeded it?
Mimsey
