Dom/ sub crap, and other terms for the same thing

[ScottPerry--sp--not-xscn]

(This post is a continuation from an earlier thread at Deeply closeted).


I've heard it called hypnotism, transference (making the CoS into a father figure), and simple abuse, but isn't it all really the same thing? An attempt by one to dominate another on an unequal playing field, with an agenda of creating and reinforcing a long-term and likely near permanent relationship of inequality? Is it not also a willingness by "the other one" to submit himself or herself to such domination? I call this the domination/submission relationship (Dom/sub for short, the psychological kind).


I believe that if the Dom/sub element of Scientology could somehow be entirely removed from it, that it would be enhanced and improved greatly. It seems to me that this is what the Freezoners are attempting to do with it. When I think about it, all of the negative aspects of Scientology seem to me to all be related to attempts at the domination of one by another. If that could somehow be removed, would there be anything left there to complain about? I guess another good question would be would there being anything left there at all?


Would you say that "Dom/sub relationship" might be a reasonable way to describe the CoS's biggest problem?


If you had to somehow describe the biggest problem in the CoS, what would you say it's biggest problem is?

 

[Terril park]

(This post is a continuation from an earlier thread at Deeply closeted).


I've heard it called hypnotism, transference (making the CoS into a father figure), and simple abuse, but isn't it all really the same thing? An attempt by one to dominate another on an unequal playing field, with an agenda of creating and reinforcing a long-term and likely near permanent relationship of inequality? Is it not also a willingness by "the other one" to submit himself or herself to such domination? I call this the domination/submission relationship (Dom/sub for short, the psychological kind).


I believe that if the Dom/sub element of Scientology could somehow be entirely removed from it, that it would be enhanced and improved greatly. It seems to me that this is what the Freezoners are attempting to do with it. When I think about it, all of the negative aspects of Scientology seem to me to all be related to attempts at the domination of one by another. If that could somehow be removed, would there be anything left there to complain about? I guess another good question would be would there being anything left there at all?


Would you say that "Dom/sub relationship" might be a reasonable way to describe the CoS's biggest problem?


If you had to somehow describe the biggest problem in the CoS, what would you say it's biggest problem is?

I think you have a point.

In the FZ few are into domination. But I guess any category of people will have a
few bad ones. I know one auditor who says she likes to start all new PCs on ethics.
This is of course is a template for domination.

 

[AngeloV]

(This post is a continuation from an earlier thread at Deeply closeted).


I've heard it called hypnotism, transference (making the CoS into a father figure), and simple abuse, but isn't it all really the same thing? An attempt by one to dominate another on an unequal playing field, with an agenda of creating and reinforcing a long-term and likely near permanent relationship of inequality? Is it not also a willingness by "the other one" to submit himself or herself to such domination? I call this the domination/submission relationship (Dom/sub for short, the psychological kind).


I believe that if the Dom/sub element of Scientology could somehow be entirely removed from it, that it would be enhanced and improved greatly. It seems to me that this is what the Freezoners are attempting to do with it. When I think about it, all of the negative aspects of Scientology seem to me to all be related to attempts at the domination of one by another. If that could somehow be removed, would there be anything left there to complain about? I guess another good question would be would there being anything left there at all?


Would you say that "Dom/sub relationship" might be a reasonable way to describe the CoS's biggest problem?


If you had to somehow describe the biggest problem in the CoS, what would you say it's biggest problem is?

Emphasis mine.

You are wrong. If you somehow pick apart the bits and pieces of scientology that remove the 'dom/sub' elements, what you are left with is still based on lies, exaggerated states of being, exaggerated 'gains', and pseudo-scientific quackery (purification rundown, the book 'All about Radiation', the book 'History of Man'). And don't forget the reason for ALL sickness - being PTS and the connection with 'suppressive persons'. Pure rubbish.

You cannot fix scientology no matter how hard you try because it is written by a known liar and charlatan. No clears exist. No OT's exist. These are fictional 'states of being' completely fabricated by Hubbard.

 

[Hypatia]

(This post is a continuation from an earlier thread at Deeply closeted).


I've heard it called hypnotism, transference (making the CoS into a father figure), and simple abuse, but isn't it all really the same thing? An attempt by one to dominate another on an unequal playing field, with an agenda of creating and reinforcing a long-term and likely near permanent relationship of inequality? Is it not also a willingness by "the other one" to submit himself or herself to such domination? I call this the domination/submission relationship (Dom/sub for short, the psychological kind).


I believe that if the Dom/sub element of Scientology could somehow be entirely removed from it, that it would be enhanced and improved greatly. It seems to me that this is what the Freezoners are attempting to do with it. When I think about it, all of the negative aspects of Scientology seem to me to all be related to attempts at the domination of one by another. If that could somehow be removed, would there be anything left there to complain about? I guess another good question would be would there being anything left there at all?


Would you say that "Dom/sub relationship" might be a reasonable way to describe the CoS's biggest problem?


If you had to somehow describe the biggest problem in the CoS, what would you say it's biggest problem is?

I think you're on to something there.

To me, one of their biggest failings is that they are operating under the premise that the wants and needs of the cult. Then it turns into the wants and needs of Miscavige since it's really all about him.

A constructive church or self improvement group would focus solely on the needs of the individual. The needs of the organization ideally should only be about paying the overhead and operating costs. And, in focusing on the needs of the individual, there'd be no freeloader debts or contracts or disconnection or financial ripoffs, etc.

Every single thing members are told to do is only for the benefit of the organization. And the cult believes it owns its members.

 

[Gizmo]

Scn is like this : There is a ton of rotten horse shit you have to pay ( a whole lot ) to sift through to find a 1 carat diamond.

You find the diamond ! You get love bombed & get to show off your newly found diamond. You are delighted !

Sadly, on a much later day you find out without any doubt you have not a diamond but a CZ - and a piss poor one at that.

Welcome to scientology sucker !

 

[Gizmo]

. . . .


If you had to somehow describe the biggest problem in the CoS, what would you say it's biggest problem is?

1) For openers, anything selling you need a guru is just all fucked up out of the gate.
Might want to listen to those few who tell you self-empowerment is what is needed a path to.

2) Those who want to tell you are broken - just shoot the bastard on the spot.
Might want to seek out those who say you need to find a way to your own power but you are not broken.

3) Hopefully you do not listen to those who have a history of being lying cheating con artists.
Most likely the kind of person(s) you are seeking are bragging they are on their way to - or are already are - millionaires from peddling their 'salvation' to people(s).

4) Some promise they will make you superhuman - but have no honest proof of their claims.
You might want to verify wild claims of making you this that or the other before you spend a dime on it.

Oh, the biggest problem of the CoS IS the CoS.

Solution ? Start over ( See above )

 

[ScottPerry--sp--not-xscn]

Emphasis mine.

You are wrong. If you somehow pick apart the bits and pieces of scientology that remove the 'dom/sub' elements, what you are left with is still based on lies, exaggerated states of being, exaggerated 'gains', and pseudo-scientific quackery (purification rundown, the book 'All about Radiation', the book 'History of Man'). And don't forget the reason for ALL sickness - being PTS and the connection with 'suppressive persons'. Pure rubbish.

You cannot fix scientology no matter how hard you try because it is written by a known liar and charlatan. No clears exist. No OT's exist. These are fictional 'states of being' completely fabricated by Hubbard.

I would define routine deception, which all of that is, as just more Dom/ sub crap. I think even Hubbard might have said himself that he used lies to control those around him. No?

Your vote sounds to me like you would vote for "there would be nothing left once the Dom/ sub crap was all removed."

 

[ScottPerry--sp--not-xscn]

1) For openers, anything selling you need a guru is just all fucked up out of the gate.
Might want to listen to those few who tell you self-empowerment is what is needed a path to.

2) Those who want to tell you are broken - just shoot the bastard on the spot.
Might want to seek out those who say you need to find a way to your own power but you are not broken.

3) Hopefully you do not listen to those who have a history of being lying cheating con artists.
Most likely the kind of person(s) you are seeking are bragging they are on their way to - or are already are - millionaires from peddling their 'salvation' to people(s).

4) Some promise they will make you superhuman - but have no honest proof of their claims.
You might want to verify wild claims of making you this that or the other before you spend a dime on it.

Oh, the biggest problem of the CoS IS the CoS.

Solution ? Start over ( See above )

This too sounds to me like a vote for "there would be nothing left" no?

 

[Gizmo]

This too sounds to me like a vote for "there would be nothing left" no?

How can there be nothing left as they would assume there was at least something was there to start with & there was never anything to it.

Simple, it never had anything worthwhile.

 

[Gizmo]

Remember, scientology has more murders than clears.

 

[ScottPerry--sp--not-xscn]

How can there be nothing left as they would assume there was at least something was there to start with & there was never anything to it.

Simple, it never had anything worthwhile.

I managed to follow an Indian guru for seven years when I was much younger, and by some estimations, that was probably seven years too many. While today, I can think of 1,000 things I would've liked to have done instead with those seven years, back then, perhaps I was not yet ready to do them.

In retrospect, I feel more sorry for the guru himself than I do for myself, because he is still trapped in a lie, and I am now free of it. As for all of the other folks that I met while I was there, I mostly miss their good company, at least for those whose company I enjoyed.

Yes, it was probably a wasteful time of my life. Yes, probably that guru should stop trying to con people. I have done my best to try and put a dent in his little "guru empire", but naturally he paid little attention to me. I suppose there is a sucker born every day, and a huckster born every day too, more than happily ready to lead him on.

I have no doubt that the world will be a far better place when there are fewer hucksters, and suckers to follow them.

 

[ScottPerry--sp--not-xscn]

Remember, scientology has more murders than clears.

I would imagine that all it would take would be one murder to validate that....

...... The Scientology Murder Project ......​

Easily validated!!

Still, it seems to me that whether it's a multi billion dollar operation, or a single dude in a dirty tee shirt beating the crap out of his girl friend, who he knows will come back to him that very night, it's all still just one person dominating another, Dom/ sub. One is just a little bit better at "guilding he lilly" than the other, no?

 

[La La Lou Lou]

I would imagine that all it would take would be one murder to validate that.... Easily validated!!

Still, it seems to me that whether it's a multi billion dollar operation, or a single dude in a dirty tee shirt beating the crap out of his girl friend, who he knows will come back to him that very night, it's all still just one person dominating another, Dom/ sub. One is just a little bit better at "guilding he lilly" than the other, no?

The Swami-ji/devotee dynamic is very much dom/sub. Ron versus the rest of us was a bit similar, lots of 'yes sir', accepting rubbish as truth without looking at what was said, bowing and foot kissing in a western way. Hubbard walking around Saint Hill surrounded by adoring fans was quite like that from what I've gleamed. The Saint Hill lectures where he's talking about spare bodies in vats etc total crap in a similar way to the stories told in a Krishna temple. I think it's how Guru's judge if the audience is hypnotised or not. Then throwing people overboard for failing a test etc the mean sea captain Ron, Commodore Ron, sorry. That was very much sub/dom. Miscarriage is all about being a dominant shrimp. You will think what I tell you to think is the basis of any cult, and is about domination as much as anything else.

But I think there's a lttle more to it all than that. The whole of human existence boils down to a bit more than just who wears black thigh length vinyl high heeled boots or the gimp mask.

 

[ScottPerry--sp--not-xscn]

Freezone?

So, without this there would be nothing left? There was nothing there to begin with, anyways? Then are all of the Freezoners just trying to hold onto something they never really had? What exactly is happening there? From what I can gather, it doesn't seem as destructive as the CoS, but I can't quite make it out.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Re: Freezone?

So, without this there would be nothing left? There was nothing there to begin with, anyways? Then are all of the Freezoners just trying to hold onto something they never really had? What exactly is happening there? From what I can gather, it doesn't seem as destructive as the CoS, but I can't quite make it out.

Some of us would say it's the same dungeon, it's just that the shackles are lined with pure scarlet cotton velvet. You still get fed very rarely and get to crap and piss down your own legs while manacled to the wall, but the velvet is a gorgeous shade!

 

[degraded being]

I would define routine deception, which all of that is, as just more Dom/ sub crap. I think even Hubbard might have said himself that he used lies to control those around him. No?

Your vote sounds to me like you would vote for "there would be nothing left once the Dom/ sub crap was all removed."

I like your Dom/Sub description but I agree with the poster who pointed out all the lies and falsehoods that dianetics/scientology is based on. There is plenty to complain about along with Dom/sub.

There is also the problem that the Dom/Sub aspect of it comes right down to the self. Scientology is a way of seeing all of life as something to be in a Dom/Sub relationship with. Cause over life. How Dom/sub is that?

Dianetics puts a person in a sub/dom relationship with their mind, then gets them to play the game of trying to get on top, only to find out later that they have to re-frame the game on the OT levels and upper level "services" Isn't that a lovely word for being psychologically fucked over in a Dom/Sub game -they even have uniforms - and it feels better and better the more you pay. Well actually not, but they can't let their masters know that. They can't even let themselves know that, it might give a dirty needle. Horrible to play Dom/Sub with self and always end up the Sub!

 

[ScottPerry--sp--not-xscn]

But I think there's a lttle more to it all than that. The whole of human existence boils down to a bit more than just who wears black thigh length vinyl high heeled boots or the gimp mask.

Yes, in my view, nothing is ever really all black or all white. Undoubtedly some folks, while in the CoS have had some positive experiences, while some folks who aren't stuck in a cult sometimes have rather negative experiences. LRH, while probably being closer to the fellow in the dirty T-shirt that I just described, than to a truly helpful person, probably did have at least one or two folks in his life that had good reason to believe that he was genuinely helpful to them. While he obviously had many who had VERY good reason to feel quite the opposite.

But life is more about the light in our lives than the shadows.

 

[ScottPerry--sp--not-xscn]

I like your Dom/Sub description but I agree with the poster who pointed out all the lies and falsehoods that dianetics/scientology is based on. There is plenty to complain about along with Dom/sub.

There is also the problem that the Dom/Sub aspect of it comes right down to the self. Scientology is a way of seeing all of life as something to be in a Dom/Sub relationship with. Cause over life. How Dom/sub is that?

Dianetics puts a person in a sub/dom relationship with their mind, then gets them to play the game of trying to get on top, only to find out later that they have to re-frame the game on the OT levels and upper level "services" Isn't that a lovely word for being psychologically fucked over in a Dom/Sub game -they even have uniforms - and it feels better and better the more you pay. Well actually not, but they can't let their masters know that. They can't even let themselves know that, it might give a dirty needle. Horrible to play Dom/Sub with self and always end up the Sub!

Domination.... I believe that we all do have a legitimate right to work to gain a certain mastery of our own selves, as best we are able, but never of another. And anyone who might claim to be able to teach self-mastery, who would appoint themselves as a master over others in the process, has clearly not yet achieved true self mastery. He may have achieved mastery of hucksterism, but not much more! I also believe that true "mastery" over self is more about simple acceptance than domination.

The "self-mastery" that LRH promised was clearly merely "LRH mastery over his students" in disguise. The exact same "bait and switch" tactic used by my own Indian guru in my own cult 40 years ago. At least that much I know about self-mastery, but not much more, believe me (a fellow degraded being)!

 

[Helena Handbasket]

A Service Facsimile is that computation generated by the preclear, not the bank, to make self right and others wrong, to dominate others and escape domination, and to enhance one's own survival while hindering that of others.

 

[ScottPerry--sp--not-xscn]

Originally Posted by Tech Dictionary
A Service Facsimile is that computation generated by the preclear, not the bank, to make self right and others wrong, to dominate others and escape domination, and to enhance one's own survival while hindering that of others.

Yup all about dom/sub....

Now if all of the good old boys down at the OSA had the guts to spend even just 10% of their time trying to clear out the criminal engrams which were designed to actually "encourage" their own abberated behavior, and that Hubbard had planted in their own brains, then we would begin to see our very first true and historical CoS related "planet clearing event"!