Don't hold your breath

[Boojuum]

The death rattle of the Church of Scientology is still a long ways off.

I thought 2010 was a complete disaster for the cos. How could it get worse?

It did.

2011. The New Yorker article--a LONG and DETAILED article by one of the most respected magazines in America. Floodgates then opened of easy-to-read sharp criticisms in various news organs--NY Post, Salon, ....

The internet is simply brimming with fascinating and true and believable anti-scieno stuff. It's stunning in it's enormity. Cartoons, movies, interviews, first hand accounts, multiple anti book releases, departure of high profile celebrities, departure of high level execs, a reformed cos gaining strength daily.

The war is won, or is it?

Nope.

The cos has been thoroughly roughed up and will continue to be roughed up but the few thousand SO members are like Napolean's Elite Guard or the Nazi's SS.

Say what you will about the SO--they are dedicated and devoted. The cos still has plenty of donors and plenty of money. Maybe not as many donors or as much money but when you pay your people almost nothing with no medical or dental insurance or retirement funds, you can hold out for quite a while.

In WWII the Japanese were prepared to fight until death--even the civilians. It took 2 atomic bombs to convince them otherwise. I suspect many of the high Japanese command were still eager to die for the Emperor.

How long will it take at Hemet? There's no access to the Internet there.

Scientology has always been incomprehensible to outsiders. Even that's changing with bulletized summaries by leading news groups.

Tick, tick, tick.

 

[Infinite]

Yep. Well said. The death of Scientology is a long, long way off and may never happen. Even if every Scilon and every Sea Ogre walked out tomorrow, the cult could run happily, forever on its cash reserves and land holdings with a small cabal of operatives at its helm.

 

[degraded being]

The death rattle of the Church of Scientology is still a long ways off.

I thought 2010 was a complete disaster for the cos. How could it get worse?

It did.

2011. The New Yorker article--a LONG and DETAILED article by one of the most respected magazines in America. Floodgates then opened of easy-to-read sharp criticisms in various news organs--NY Post, Salon, ....

The internet is simply brimming with fascinating and true and believable anti-scieno stuff. It's stunning in it's enormity. Cartoons, movies, interviews, first hand accounts, multiple anti book releases, departure of high profile celebrities, departure of high level execs, a reformed cos gaining strength daily.

The war is won, or is it?

Nope.

The cos has been thoroughly roughed up and will continue to be roughed up but the few thousand SO members are like Napolean's Elite Guard or the Nazi's SS.

Say what you will about the SO--they are dedicated and devoted. The cos still has plenty of donors and plenty of money. Maybe not as many donors or as much money but when you pay your people almost nothing with no medical or dental insurance or retirement funds, you can hold out for quite a while.

In WWII the Japanese were prepared to fight until death--even the civilians. It took 2 atomic bombs to convince them otherwise. I suspect many of the high Japanese command were still eager to die for the Emperor.

How long will it take at Hemet? There's no access to the Internet there.

Scientology has always been incomprehensible to outsiders. Even that's changing with bulletized summaries by leading news groups.

Tick, tick, tick.

Since you mentioned the Japanese -
"...In 1944, Lt. Hiroo Onoda was sent by the Japanese army to the remote Philippine island of Lubang. His mission was to conduct guerrilla warfare during World War II. Unfortunately, he was never officially told the war had ended; so for 29 years, Onoda continued to live in the jungle, ready for when his country would again need his services and information. Eating coconuts and bananas and deftly evading searching parties he believed were enemy scouts, Onoda hid in the jungle until he finally emerged from the dark recesses of the island on March 19, 1972...."
http://history1900s.about.com/od/worldwarii/a/soldiersurr.htm

This will be paralleled by some sci-culties.

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

Yep. Well said. The death of Scientology is a long, long way off and may never happen. Even if every Scilon and every Sea Ogre walked out tomorrow, the cult could run happily, forever on its cash reserves and land holdings with a small cabal of operatives at its helm.

This is very true. We may have killed the PR aspect of OSA releasing personal disgraces against exes, but there are many more pre-sharpened claws in the way of a final victory. The claws in the Thumbnails below are mere pussy-cat play when it comes to what OSA and its allies are prepared to unleash.

 

[athena8]

This is very true. We may have killed the PR aspect of OSA releasing personal disgraces against exes, but there are many more pre-sharpened claws in the way of a final victory. The claws in the Thumbnails below are mere pussy-cat play when it comes to what OSA and its allies are prepared to unleash.

Those look like self-mutilation scratches to me. You can add those to OSA's propensity for foot-bullets.

 

[GreyWolf]

Ok. Maybe 2012.

 

[Infinite]

The thing to watch out for is a re-launcing of the cult with new people at the top as part of some sort of "reformation". So long as KSW exists, the evil will persist.

 

[Arthur Dent]

The death rattle of the Church of Scientology is still a long ways off.

I thought 2010 was a complete disaster for the cos. How could it get worse?

It did.

2011. The New Yorker article--a LONG and DETAILED article by one of the most respected magazines in America. Floodgates then opened of easy-to-read sharp criticisms in various news organs--NY Post, Salon, ....

The internet is simply brimming with fascinating and true and believable anti-scieno stuff. It's stunning in it's enormity. Cartoons, movies, interviews, first hand accounts, multiple anti book releases, departure of high profile celebrities, departure of high level execs, a reformed cos gaining strength daily.

The war is won, or is it?

Nope.

The cos has been thoroughly roughed up and will continue to be roughed up but the few thousand SO members are like Napolean's Elite Guard or the Nazi's SS.

Say what you will about the SO--they are dedicated and devoted. The cos still has plenty of donors and plenty of money. Maybe not as many donors or as much money but when you pay your people almost nothing with no medical or dental insurance or retirement funds, you can hold out for quite a while.

In WWII the Japanese were prepared to fight until death--even the civilians. It took 2 atomic bombs to convince them otherwise. I suspect many of the high Japanese command were still eager to die for the Emperor.

How long will it take at Hemet? There's no access to the Internet there.

Scientology has always been incomprehensible to outsiders. Even that's changing with bulletized summaries by leading news groups.

Tick, tick, tick.

This is exactly why there need to be arrests made for the crimes and successful prosecution of them. Scn. may collapse entirely or not but if it is to persist they will be forced to not be as criminal as they are. And they will persist knowing eyes of the law are upon them and precedents will have been set.

 

[Mystic]

That minor little scilon cult is effectively dead. All we are seeing these days is the stench from the unburied rot. Do not mistake the burps and farts of rot-gas as some other potential.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

The meat grinder will continue to turn, but it has run out of it's supply of feat meat.

To people outside of the cult, I'd like to say it's little more than a joke ... but it's not even that. It's completely irrelevant.

 

[Boojuum]

Is it dead already?

That minor little scilon cult is effectively dead. All we are seeing these days is the stench from the unburied rot. Do not mistake the burps and farts of rot-gas as some other potential.

Good thought.

Idle Orgs being run by die-hards.

Incoming public at a trickle for decades.

What does death look like? Maybe this is it?

In any case, it's not a bustling, high interest, lots of happy, winning people scene.

 

[PTSPal]

Help

This is exactly why there need to be arrests made for the crimes and successful prosecution of them. Scn. may collapse entirely or not but if it is to persist they will be forced to not be as criminal as they are. And they will persist knowing eyes of the law are upon them and precedents will have been set.

OK...I truly believe that the only effective setback for this sinister organization is to somehow hold it responsible for its crimes...I'm not trying to be insensitive when I say the following but I'm not that preoccupied with how cult members are treated or family separation. This can be handled by just keeping the public informed. It is being handled as we speak. It is a good first step but it will only be temporary at best.

What keeps me up at night is what is not being confronted, discussed or handled in any way. This group and people within this group are directly responsible for homicides, suicides and driving people to ruin. They will continue to get away with this if no one brings evidence against them. They also have pulled the wool over the eyes of the public with this tax exemption. They are obviously running a high pressure sales organization and gathering huge amounts of money to fund their PI's, attorneys and henchmen. The French have done something about it. The Aussies are on the cusp of doing something about it. Where are the Americans? HELP..

 

[Ulf K. Maier]

Most interested...

{snip}
This group and people within this group are directly responsible for homicides
{snip}

Court-admissible evidence of this would be most appreciated, as this alone could bring it all down. AFAIK there is no statute of limitations on homicide.

Docs, please?

 

[Boojuum]

OK...I truly believe that the only effective setback for this sinister organization is to somehow hold it responsible for its crimes...I'm not trying to be insensitive when I say the following but I'm not that preoccupied with how cult members are treated or family separation. This can be handled by just keeping the public informed. It is being handled as we speak. It is a good first step but it will only be temporary at best.

What keeps me up at night is what is not being confronted, discussed or handled in any way. This group and people within this group are directly responsible for homicides, suicides and driving people to ruin. They will continue to get away with this if no one brings evidence against them. They also have pulled the wool over the eyes of the public with this tax exemption. They are obviously running a high pressure sales organization and gathering huge amounts of money to fund their PI's, attorneys and henchmen. The French have done something about it. The Aussies are on the cusp of doing something about it. Where are the Americans? HELP..

Good post.

 

[guanoloco]

The death rattle of the Church of Scientology is still a long ways off.

In WWII the Japanese were prepared to fight until death--even the civilians. It took 2 atomic bombs to convince them otherwise. I suspect many of the high Japanese command were still eager to die for the Emperor.

They were still pulling these crazy bastard fanatics out of the jungles clear up into the '70s and rumored to be as late as the '80s.

However, I personally believe many, if not most, of the personnel realize there's a problem in the program.

I think a broad front of opposing Scientology or Hubbard would do more to consolidate and preserve their resolution as opposed to singling out Miscavige and shedding light on him being "the SP". They'd probably turn on a dime once his position is sufficiently eroded.

Let's face it...stats are falling and that's got to be viewable at some level.

 

[Boojuum]

The prison camp is closed off

They were still pulling these crazy bastard fanatics out of the jungles clear up into the '70s and rumored to be as late as the '80s.

However, I personally believe many, if not most, of the personnel realize there's a problem in the program.

I think a broad front of opposing Scientology or Hubbard would do more to consolidate and preserve their resolution as opposed to singling out Miscavige and shedding light on him being "the SP". They'd probably turn on a dime once his position is sufficiently eroded.

Let's face it...stats are falling and that's got to be viewable at some level.

As long as the SO is prevented from seeing the truth via the media, why would they have any reason to believe that things are bad? Beans and rice diets aren't new. Low GI isn't new. Maybe long term low GI is new. I'm not sure that the GI is low anyway. More secret stats.... More lack of transparency.

If you can figure out a way to get truthful information into the SO on a broad scale, that would go a long way to bring the cos to running a legitimate organization without an RPF or high pressure sales tactics or billion year contracts or "blow drills".

 

[scooter]

There are ongoing actions against the cult on a daily basis that are factually bleeding it to death.

There have been few if any new starts for most of the orgs for the last few years, thus every time someone blows, the cult lose that much income.

Government and police moves against the cult are notoriously slow to get going and take an age to complete but they build a momentum of their own as they go - legislation effectively destroying the cult's tax exemption is due here in Oz the middle of this year - that has the full support of ALL the political parties here so should breeze through, despite the cult's best efforts. If it doesn't, then we go back and re-fight that battle.

The FBI have been rumoured to be investigating for years - finally we got some confirmation of that in the NY article last week. I'm sure there are other police actions ongoing around the globe that aren't front-page news but will be once charges are laid.

Every successful action against this cult has been preceded by a lot of groundwork by exes and anons and it's not put on display for obvious reasons. No-one here expected an Oz Senator to stand up and label the cult for what it was now did they? But it happened. And there's a lot more to come (most I don't know about but I've just had sniffs of stuff in the wings.)

Cult is reeling and will continue to reel. It won't necessarily come crashing down all at once but it's effectively dead now, as Mystic said. It will never recover any decent PR now that so many of its crimes have been exposed and the media is getting braver in attacking it, sensing it's just a rotting corpse, not a sleeping tiger.

I have no doubt that the cult is dead but seeming to function. Effectively it has no future but may stagger along for a while with the Faithful slowly dwindling in number. DM's going to get more and more frantic and do more stupid things will will keep the exodus going. And the media will get more horror stories out there and demand more action from inert governments.

As Karen #1 said a while back, concentrating on the abuses currently being committed gives the media and governments impetus in investigating and charging those responsible. Hubbard is long gone and a historical figure as far as most people are concerned, Miscavige is alive and unwell and a very easy target. It's not a matter of excusing the source of the trouble and going after the protege, it's a matter of tactics that'll work. Miscavige IS a target and will get nailed if enough people name him for his crimes.

And that's coming up, as sure a night follows day.

Tick, tock, Davey Boy.

 

[LongTimeGone]

Good thought.

Idle Orgs being run by die-hards.

Incoming public at a trickle for decades.

What does death look like? Maybe this is it?

In any case, it's not a bustling, high interest, lots of happy, winning people scene.

OTIX - The death of Scientology.

EP: Exteriorised with full perception; able to operate without the need of an org.

LTG

 

[Jump]

EP: Exteriorised with full perception; able to operate without the need of an org.

Can operate exterior to the org. fabulous EP!!

 

[Boojuum]

Good State of the Orgs speech

There are ongoing actions against the cult on a daily basis that are factually bleeding it to death.

There have been few if any new starts for most of the orgs for the last few years, thus every time someone blows, the cult lose that much income.

Government and police moves against the cult are notoriously slow to get going and take an age to complete but they build a momentum of their own as they go - legislation effectively destroying the cult's tax exemption is due here in Oz the middle of this year - that has the full support of ALL the political parties here so should breeze through, despite the cult's best efforts. If it doesn't, then we go back and re-fight that battle.

The FBI have been rumoured to be investigating for years - finally we got some confirmation of that in the NY article last week. I'm sure there are other police actions ongoing around the globe that aren't front-page news but will be once charges are laid.

Every successful action against this cult has been preceded by a lot of groundwork by exes and anons and it's not put on display for obvious reasons. No-one here expected an Oz Senator to stand up and label the cult for what it was now did they? But it happened. And there's a lot more to come (most I don't know about but I've just had sniffs of stuff in the wings.)

Cult is reeling and will continue to reel. It won't necessarily come crashing down all at once but it's effectively dead now, as Mystic said. It will never recover any decent PR now that so many of its crimes have been exposed and the media is getting braver in attacking it, sensing it's just a rotting corpse, not a sleeping tiger.

I have no doubt that the cult is dead but seeming to function. Effectively it has no future but may stagger along for a while with the Faithful slowly dwindling in number. DM's going to get more and more frantic and do more stupid things will will keep the exodus going. And the media will get more horror stories out there and demand more action from inert governments.

As Karen #1 said a while back, concentrating on the abuses currently being committed gives the media and governments impetus in investigating and charging those responsible. Hubbard is long gone and a historical figure as far as most people are concerned, Miscavige is alive and unwell and a very easy target. It's not a matter of excusing the source of the trouble and going after the protege, it's a matter of tactics that'll work. Miscavige IS a target and will get nailed if enough people name him for his crimes.

And that's coming up, as sure a night follows day.

Tick, tock, Davey Boy.

This is a pretty good summary. It'll be interesting to see what happens by the end of the year. DM being forced into court is the next big blow to the cos. Still, some folks will never give up the fight.