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Gottabrain
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The word "engram" pre-dates Dianetics and was adopted by Hubbard simply because it existed and seemed to fit in with what he was finding. Ref for e.g the subject of psycho-cybernetics which uses the word engram in the "trace on a cell" sense and which was fairly popular in the 1930s.
Regarding the benefits of learning carrying on into later generations - I think we can accept that the idea that it is contained in the DNA is pure speculation (If not there then where? = false argument). The trace on a cell idea is no better. The only plausible idea to my mind is the continuance of theta from one body to the next. Whether through one "thetan" moving into a new body or whether there is one "group thean" vitalising the whole group of mice is open to discussion.
Studies on racial learning and differences are all contaminated by the fact that the learning preferences of one race - usually us whiteys - has been applied to other races and when they performed poorly it was calimed that they "cold not do maths" or whatever. There are clear differences between races, but what the learning/mental aspects of these are is still unknown. Blacks can do maths very well but need to be taught it in a different way to what we are used to.
Regarding the benefits of learning carrying on into later generations - I think we can accept that the idea that it is contained in the DNA is pure speculation (If not there then where? = false argument). The trace on a cell idea is no better. The only plausible idea to my mind is the continuance of theta from one body to the next. Whether through one "thetan" moving into a new body or whether there is one "group thean" vitalising the whole group of mice is open to discussion.
Studies on racial learning and differences are all contaminated by the fact that the learning preferences of one race - usually us whiteys - has been applied to other races and when they performed poorly it was calimed that they "cold not do maths" or whatever. There are clear differences between races, but what the learning/mental aspects of these are is still unknown. Blacks can do maths very well but need to be taught it in a different way to what we are used to.
AngeloV
Gold Meritorious Patron
While DMSMH claims that an engram is a ''definite and permanent trace left by a stimulus on the protoplasm of a tissue", he repudiated this in Ability: the Magazine of Dianetics and Scientology, Issue 36, Washington D. C., Mid-October 1956. In this issue, he states that an engram is "a mental image picture of a moment of pain and unconsciousness".
His first claim is complete fiction because he had no scientific proof of this trace. None. Repeat none. A complete fabrication based on other ideas of the time. The other ideas are just that, ideas. They were not proved to be true.
The second definition is very conveniently vague. It cannot be tested using any scientific method. How convenient no? All further talk about engrams and the 'erasing' thereof is mere speculation. Every anecdotal success story is just that....anecdotal. "I felt better". "I regained thus and such ability". "I feel like I can walk on a cloud". All anecdotal and unverifiable.
As for measuring intelligence based on race: This is a highly controversial subject and best suited for some other forum, IMHO. It is controversial because measuring intelligence is not a clear cut matter. You said "Blacks have lower IQs". This is a generalization that has no basis in fact. Provide the study that proved this. Ditto for the statement: "Asians have higher mathematical abilities but lower creative abilities".
His first claim is complete fiction because he had no scientific proof of this trace. None. Repeat none. A complete fabrication based on other ideas of the time. The other ideas are just that, ideas. They were not proved to be true.
The second definition is very conveniently vague. It cannot be tested using any scientific method. How convenient no? All further talk about engrams and the 'erasing' thereof is mere speculation. Every anecdotal success story is just that....anecdotal. "I felt better". "I regained thus and such ability". "I feel like I can walk on a cloud". All anecdotal and unverifiable.
As for measuring intelligence based on race: This is a highly controversial subject and best suited for some other forum, IMHO. It is controversial because measuring intelligence is not a clear cut matter. You said "Blacks have lower IQs". This is a generalization that has no basis in fact. Provide the study that proved this. Ditto for the statement: "Asians have higher mathematical abilities but lower creative abilities".
I know personally five Asians -- one Japanese, one Korean, one Vietnamese, and two Chinese -- who were terrible at math but quite outstanding as artists and decorators. Then there's my Filipina friend whose no good at either but one of the warmest, most loving, caring and tenacious in her socio-political goals you'll ever meet. Exactly what "race" is she? (Do I care? no)
Well it's true some blacks have such ... ah ... um ... "outstanding physical skills" that you maybe don't even care about their IQ or lack of it (at least not at the moment ...) but then there's my good friend from college who went on to become one outstanding medical doctor, and another who was a remarkable poet, another who made his mark as a painter on the NYC art scene some years later; too bad all three missed out on the college sports scholarship thing and had to finance their education another way.
Ever wonder what was the IQ score for Jimi Hendrix? Frederick Douglas? Oprah Winfrey? Malcolm X?
There's just nothing quite like a "scientific study" that statistically "proves" the validity of one's prejudices. Manifest destiny anyone?
If you want a REAL education, you really oughta get out more, meet some of the locals whose great-grandparents immigrated here from Europe and who are now busy passing on their "accelerated learning" to yet another generation of trailer-trash gun-toting tweaker drop-outs who are firmly set on the career path to prison.
La La Lou Lou
Crusader
Race is such an interesting point. Such a taboo. I dont give it much thought, in that I talk to people as individuals not as generalities. However it's totally exceptable to say that a Jack Russell's more intelligent than a cocker spaniel. Or Rotweilers have to be muzzled, theyre dangerously bad tempered.
You simply can't say 'White working class englishmen should be muzzled, especially on friday nights'. Or that the best way to deal with an Arab is to fluff up their ego, but be carefull they mood swing like crazy. Upperclass Brits can drink you under the carpet, but they wont loose control at any point. An arab guy will make you feel wonderful till you marry him then he'll treat you like dirt. These are all generalities, and sometimes theres some basis for truth in generalities. These are cultural differences, DNA memory if you like, not racial at all.
White working class men learn from an early age to drink like fish and shout and swear at football matches, so did their dads and their grandads.
Upper class guys are brought up to drink, but stay in control, have been for generations.
For generations Arab males have been brought up to accept that they have no power, nothing they can do but follow the word of god and to a slightly lesser extent their father. Women are souless and must do what you tell them to do. Its in the DNA.
For generations black slave men were not hands on fathers, they had work to do, and their decendants are not always good at being hands on fathers.
But these are generalities, there are individuals who are free from the dictates of their culture or DNA and think for themselves. There are rotweilers that get bullied by poodles, Ive seen one!
You may well be right that our DNA is more poweful than we knew, but we have the chance to fight it if we dont like it.
You simply can't say 'White working class englishmen should be muzzled, especially on friday nights'. Or that the best way to deal with an Arab is to fluff up their ego, but be carefull they mood swing like crazy. Upperclass Brits can drink you under the carpet, but they wont loose control at any point. An arab guy will make you feel wonderful till you marry him then he'll treat you like dirt. These are all generalities, and sometimes theres some basis for truth in generalities. These are cultural differences, DNA memory if you like, not racial at all.
White working class men learn from an early age to drink like fish and shout and swear at football matches, so did their dads and their grandads.
Upper class guys are brought up to drink, but stay in control, have been for generations.
For generations Arab males have been brought up to accept that they have no power, nothing they can do but follow the word of god and to a slightly lesser extent their father. Women are souless and must do what you tell them to do. Its in the DNA.
For generations black slave men were not hands on fathers, they had work to do, and their decendants are not always good at being hands on fathers.
But these are generalities, there are individuals who are free from the dictates of their culture or DNA and think for themselves. There are rotweilers that get bullied by poodles, Ive seen one!
You may well be right that our DNA is more poweful than we knew, but we have the chance to fight it if we dont like it.
La La Lou Lou
Crusader
SSmilla, can you proove that BT's are cleverer after OT3?
Smilla
Ordinary Human
If you are taking my post seriously that is very worrying
La La Lou Lou
Crusader
I dont take it seriously, but as I never went OT, my BT's take it very seriously, they want me to do steps A-E and pay for the OT levels again, so that they can rid themselves of me.
Smilla
Ordinary Human
Give them the R-Factor - tone 40 of course, that they are mocking you up, and all will be fine.
Type4_PTS
Diamond Invictus SP
Life span of cells
According to "Wonderquest" which you used as a reference in your post, you have cells in your body that last a lifetime, including in your Cerebral Cortex, which is believed to play a key role in memory.
http://www.wonderquest.com/lifetime-cells.htm
Here is more info with regards to the technique that Jonas Frisen used to determine the age of different groups of cells. (the scientist quoted in the wonderquest article)
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=198208§ioncode=26.
According to "Wonderquest" which you used as a reference in your post, you have cells in your body that last a lifetime, including in your Cerebral Cortex, which is believed to play a key role in memory.
http://www.wonderquest.com/lifetime-cells.htm
Here is more info with regards to the technique that Jonas Frisen used to determine the age of different groups of cells. (the scientist quoted in the wonderquest article)
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=198208§ioncode=26.
Sai Ninja 2000
Patron with Honors
very well stated. this is an interesting thread, and something i've been thinking about for a bit. its a problem for me, as now, my "stable datum" has been shaken and i need to find out what's real and what's not. this board has been very helpful in filling in the gaps for me. i'm glad there is a thread like this one now. i'd be interested to see any other contributions to the collection of this data. i'm not saying one person is wrong and one person is right, just that i'd like to see what people have to say so i can decide for myself what seems true. 
MarcabianMajor
New Member
Funny. Can anyone remember the reason why your thetans were sentenced to this world... and I'm not referring to BTs.
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
Do you mean:
1. Remember what Hubbard said about it in a Level 0 tape?
2. Remember for real as if it were truly something in one's memory?
3. You're a troll?
4. None of the above?
Paul
thetanic
Gold Meritorious Patron
La La Lou Lou
Crusader
Thanks Smilla, it worked, theyve decided to disconnect now.
Smilla
Ordinary Human
We owe it all to mans greatest friend
La La Lou Lou
Crusader
A Dog?