ESMB and The Freezone - let's have it out!
- Thread starter Emma
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Free to shine
Shiny & Free
You raise a very interesting point Pixiegal - that there are many, many people reading here who do not post, or state their views publicly. I know I didn't post for a month or so when I first arrived, and I feel this is very common.
So it's about attitude again. If ESMB is perceived to be majorly pro Freezone, then lurkers may never post. I think it's important that if we disagree or feel uncomfortable with something posted, that we do say so. Without being inflammatory of course. Those who have been on boards and forums for a long time can forget what it's like when you walk out of the dark blinking, and the emotions that come up. I know I have handled most of the stuff and now it's hard to remember the extent of it. Yet it happened and it's because of feeling safe on ESMB that it did. However it took a lot of reading to understand that the Freezoners who post here are way in the minority and the constant tech discussions are really needed by some.
Neo
Silver Meritorious Patron
Escalus
Patron Meritorious
I think people have a right to believe anything they want, and I believe the heavy presence of freezoners here at ESMB is the major reason I don't come here as often any more.
I think the majority of freezoners I have "met" here are, to put it bluntly, overbearing, self-important, righteous know-it-all jerks, just like the majority of people who are still "in." And when I give them back the same attitude they're too self-absorbed to recognize what I'm doing. I'm tired of their one-line prophetic poetic deeply synthesized mumbo-jumbo and their penchant for reverting to personal attacks whenever their precious delusions are questioned or threatened. There are a couple I don't mind and there's even somebody currently still "in" who I think is a pretty cool guy. And before people try on the shoe go back and clear the MU on the word "majority".
Dianetics, from engram to Clear, is unproven subjective bullshit being passed off as legitimate science. Scientology is just Dianetics with a shiny space suit.
By the same token I don't know if it's right to limit their participation or tell them to GTFO. I have been told I've chased a few away and I would be more than happy to do that full time here if needed and wanted. But curbing somebody's free speech or their right to be a delusional asshole isn't a good thing, by and large.
I think the majority of freezoners I have "met" here are, to put it bluntly, overbearing, self-important, righteous know-it-all jerks, just like the majority of people who are still "in." And when I give them back the same attitude they're too self-absorbed to recognize what I'm doing. I'm tired of their one-line prophetic poetic deeply synthesized mumbo-jumbo and their penchant for reverting to personal attacks whenever their precious delusions are questioned or threatened. There are a couple I don't mind and there's even somebody currently still "in" who I think is a pretty cool guy. And before people try on the shoe go back and clear the MU on the word "majority".
Dianetics, from engram to Clear, is unproven subjective bullshit being passed off as legitimate science. Scientology is just Dianetics with a shiny space suit.
By the same token I don't know if it's right to limit their participation or tell them to GTFO. I have been told I've chased a few away and I would be more than happy to do that full time here if needed and wanted. But curbing somebody's free speech or their right to be a delusional asshole isn't a good thing, by and large.
The main reason for posting this thread was to get people talking about it instead of quietly stewing over it, or thinking they are "getting away with" posting pro FZ stuff.
It's a cloudy area. It causes upset because it's not really talked about openly. Well screw that. Let's have it out.
Who knows....at the end we may all have a greater understanding and tolerance of each other.
That couldn't hurt!
beyond_horizons
Patron Meritorious
This is a nice place to visit and work things out without having to travel to a place.
Probably the most profound and enlightening series of posts to pop up here were between Pierre, Ralph, Steven, James and Terril and the revelation that Terril had a four-chair org in his bedroom that he has trouble filling to capacity.
I particulary enjoy the contrasting between freezoners and independents and the effects of negative and positive processing as it relates to ones own goals and purposes.
It’s been my experience that corporate team building, leadership and coaching methodologies taught to professionals in this 21st century, that I have run into, and available in the mainstream, focus on the positive and leave little in the way of a mindset residue that Scientology or Hubbardism does.
In the grand scheme of things, and the way I see it, the freezone serves a purpose as a halfway house. Some will need it to lean on and some won’t.
Understanding the nature of the abuses, some will continue to justify it and others will justly be repulsed by it.
Probably the most profound and enlightening series of posts to pop up here were between Pierre, Ralph, Steven, James and Terril and the revelation that Terril had a four-chair org in his bedroom that he has trouble filling to capacity.
I particulary enjoy the contrasting between freezoners and independents and the effects of negative and positive processing as it relates to ones own goals and purposes.
It’s been my experience that corporate team building, leadership and coaching methodologies taught to professionals in this 21st century, that I have run into, and available in the mainstream, focus on the positive and leave little in the way of a mindset residue that Scientology or Hubbardism does.
In the grand scheme of things, and the way I see it, the freezone serves a purpose as a halfway house. Some will need it to lean on and some won’t.
Understanding the nature of the abuses, some will continue to justify it and others will justly be repulsed by it.
Free to shine
Shiny & Free
If people tell their stories, that is truth.
It shouldn't involve FZ recruitment, which is what Emma was saying in her first post.
Reasonable Lady
Patron with Honors
Emma, I'll be happy to give you my thoughts on this.
When I first decided to leave the church, I thought I might find a place in the freezone. This was comforting to me. I'm not really leaning in that direction any more. However, that option made it easier to cope with the loss of the experience. It's good to know that for anyone who still really wants the bridge, but not the church, there are options.
I never thought of this forum as a place to contact freezone orgs or practitioners. They have their own sites. The fact that there are freezoners and Indies here doesn't bother me. I feel we all have something to say and I am interested in what others have to say.
In the short time I've been here I have seen people evolve from one viewpoint to another and the transformation is inspiring. I appreciate the fact that moderation here is not heavy handed. We are big boys and girls and are here to learn how to make up our own minds. For many of us that is a new experience. We do tend to evaluate for each other from time to time. We also offer each other help. We have the option of accepting what is offered or moving on to something else. When the freezone is offered as a possible solution. That is all it is. There are other options.
While I might not connect up or get involved with any freezone practitioner, I do appreciate being able to find out what they believe and what they are doing. If you don't want to hear what they have to say, you can block them. I vote for non censorship. That is why I am here.
I agree. I enjoy reading the various thoughts and opinions voiced on this board. It is so "ex"; it is what "ex" is all about, the freedom to present different viewpoints and not be sent to "ethics" to be reprogrammed. The board is perfect, thank you Emma!RL
Good twin
Floater
Wow, thank you, I have tears in my eys now.
Well unfortunately I was not able to 'handle' myself when I came to this board, and if it wasn't for the love, friendship and constant support of one other member on this board, I do not know where I would be right now.. this is very emotional for some reason, one of the hottest threads to date methinks..
I would love of course to tell you who this person is however I do not have their permission. And now, interestingly enough, another person has pmed me and asked for support, so what goes around does come around, and now I am in more of a position to help another which is very humbling indeed. As I said, not eveyone is in a sane and balanced state of mind coming here, and I thank god every day for this site, the layers are coming off and my voice is coming back, however I do agree, and it's only natural, that a balance in the voice must still be found and I am working on that.
I am glad you enjoy my posts, it's very kind of you to say. I do not mind anyone 'letting rip' at me if I have 'let rip' at them, however an honest answer to an honest question deserves more than a rude vulgar and non sequeter answer. For me, now at this very moment, I feel I am able to agree to allow them to hang themselves. Thank you Goodtwin.
Okay, Sweetie. Now that we've seen your completely vulnerable side, will you please get back on with your quest to completely dominate DullOldFart?
You are stronger then you give yourself credit for. We've all had our toes stepped on from time to time here. (And most of us have stepped on at least one person's toes) Truth is, we are here for ourselves and each other. It feels good.
Cat's Squirrel
Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks Pixie. The one exception I'd make to my tolerance of free speech is someone with a covert agenda; for example, someone posting here from the CofS aiming to disrupt the board by lying, for example.
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
Civilized people prefer civility with their free speech, but if you forbid civil speech on a particular aspect of the general subject, where do you draw the line? Who decides what is kosher and what isn't?
The straight answer is that it's Emma's board and she can do as she wishes. So far, I applaud her decisions. But the underlying question remains of where to draw the line--on what basis does one decide to allow certain topics but not others, when there is no general outcry involved? Some things (spam etc.) are a no-brainer to get rid of, but some things aren't.
My view is that if you don't like the program change the channel. There are some posters I ignore, some threads I gloss over. Other people post messages in support of posts and posters I dislike. That's the thing about free speech--it is not all going to be to your taste. Discussion and debate allow one to see sides of topics one would not otherwise have considered. If one is willing to, anyway. If some FZ subject is being discussed, I'll add my viewpoint to others', and hopefully people will end up with a more rounded view of whatever topic is being dissected. When I started on this board 15 months ago I thought of myself as a freezoner. Now I don't, mainly based on what I have learned from ESMB.
I like the mix here. It doesn't exist in any other place online that I am aware of. We're consenting adults, or should be. Some people here are fresh from the CofS, still hurting, in need of healing. Some aren't. If you make this board totally "safe" for the more sensitive ones, you might blow off some old toughies by taking out too many of the things they find appealing.
Paul
The straight answer is that it's Emma's board and she can do as she wishes. So far, I applaud her decisions. But the underlying question remains of where to draw the line--on what basis does one decide to allow certain topics but not others, when there is no general outcry involved? Some things (spam etc.) are a no-brainer to get rid of, but some things aren't.
My view is that if you don't like the program change the channel. There are some posters I ignore, some threads I gloss over. Other people post messages in support of posts and posters I dislike. That's the thing about free speech--it is not all going to be to your taste. Discussion and debate allow one to see sides of topics one would not otherwise have considered. If one is willing to, anyway. If some FZ subject is being discussed, I'll add my viewpoint to others', and hopefully people will end up with a more rounded view of whatever topic is being dissected. When I started on this board 15 months ago I thought of myself as a freezoner. Now I don't, mainly based on what I have learned from ESMB.
I like the mix here. It doesn't exist in any other place online that I am aware of. We're consenting adults, or should be. Some people here are fresh from the CofS, still hurting, in need of healing. Some aren't. If you make this board totally "safe" for the more sensitive ones, you might blow off some old toughies by taking out too many of the things they find appealing.
Paul
Hi FTS just sent you a quick email. Life's goodHey there! Good to see you mate, wish you'd stick around a while.
Pixie
Crusader
Pixiegal.. I like it.. :megaphone: Emma can you change my name here?!
I see what you're saying here FTS however I for one did not have the strength to 'lurk' and just posted on my first day of viewing this board, but I completely see what you're saying here and this is my opinion also. We now know that ESMB is a very safe place, but lurkers and newbies may not, it's a lot of reading and a lot of catching up and not many may have the time that we have. And you're right, it IS just the attitude, there appears to be no understanding of the damage done, it's simply just 'oh come to the freezone, we can help' which is NOT what I would have expected on my first trip here.
Let them keep their freezone opinions on their own threads, if they have some compassion, opinions that are not laced with freezone undertones and a slice of understanding on other threads fine, but meating out other peoples success stories, covert marketing ploys, rudeness etc is out the window!
Having read and re read this whole thread again, and I think I said it in a previous post, I am willing to let them hang themselves, however my only concern is to the people coming to this board. My story is no where near as bad as some others I have read, and I am fully aware of the damage done to me and the state I was in when first arriving to this board, what happens if this happens to another and the insults are missed, what will happen to them? Lets hope nothing fatal, I just feel there ought to be rules.
Veda
Sponsor
One factor that makes things a bit messy, sometimes, is that some Scientology Freezoners (when amongst EX-Scientologists) apply Scientology Public Relations tech, Faux "ARC"-manipulation tech, and good cop/bad cop (Mutt and Jeff) tech.
There's probably no way to avoid it, however; and so, perhaps, the best advice is a modified version of: "Know the (Scientology) Tech and it will protect you," which becomes, "Know the Scientology tech (including the sneaky and dark side), and you can protect yourself from it."
I think the existence of two categories: "Freezone&Ron's Orgs" for Scientology(Xenu/LRH) Freezoners, and "Independent Field" for those who have moved beyond Scientology, is useful, and a scanning of these two ESMB categories is likely to answer many of the questions a person might have.
There's probably no way to avoid it, however; and so, perhaps, the best advice is a modified version of: "Know the (Scientology) Tech and it will protect you," which becomes, "Know the Scientology tech (including the sneaky and dark side), and you can protect yourself from it."
I think the existence of two categories: "Freezone&Ron's Orgs" for Scientology(Xenu/LRH) Freezoners, and "Independent Field" for those who have moved beyond Scientology, is useful, and a scanning of these two ESMB categories is likely to answer many of the questions a person might have.
Good twin
Floater
You're still just trying to get declared!
Pixie
Crusader
This is very well written Escalus, but you ought not allow them to keep you from the board. I for one miss your contributions very much. I agree with everything you have written here and I am also very glad I am not the only one who thinks this very same thing. Thank you.. and please come back. ..
Cat's Squirrel
Gold Meritorious Patron
They'd be slaughtered, but I suppose it would be fun to see them try. My first question to them would be, "why are you still trying to clear the planet when you can't even get your own Grade 0 in with other CofS staffers?"
Neo
Silver Meritorious Patron
Yes, I have noticed this. And knowing the Tech, and therefore being able to spot this does help.
And having people like Veda on this message board helps. IMO, many links you have posted have helped clarify something a Freezoner has posted.
Because the Freezone is Scientology, I don't believe it stands up to the light of day. If it's pushed heavily then shine that light a bit more brightly. However, if people are communicating their personal experiences and journeys, then that certainly is different.
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