ESMB and The Freezone - let's have it out!

[acertainratio]

There isn't really any such thing. It's just a name for a bunch of independent practitioners.

Of course, I stopped calling myself one a few years ago but that's cuz I'm an ornery beeyatch. Despite this, I've become, in some circles, the secondary (Terril being the first) bogeyperson/symbol of the entire FZ.

I understand what you say about them being 'a loose band of independent knits'.

For me, the Cof$ Scientologists behave like gangsters, and Freezoners behave like jehovah's Witnesses, but people have the right to choose for themselves - as long as they respect the rights of TROLLS.

EX TROLLUS LUCEM!

 

[Moderator 3]

I've asked myself to post this:

Roan,

Drop it. That Roan is temp-banned means he can't reply and, referencing the post that got him banned for repeated posting doesn't help the discussion.

Thor

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Sure. Though you lost me with the respect the rights of trolls part at the end.

But, yeah, I do think some FZers can be mighty hidebound at times.

Sigh. There is no such thing as Utopia. If I were going to proselytize my view it would only be to say that maybe those who like Scn should be open to other things, too, and that it could do them a world of good. I personally truly believe that the other practices caveat/prohibition is mostly bs.

 

[Pixie]

Pixie, Could I exclude myself from that 'we' as well?

I can thing of many things other than Scientology that I would rather have been doing over the past 20 years, but I can't say that it was all bad.

I don't want to start spouting Nietzsche ("What does not destroy me .." etc), but I like to try and take the positives out of my experiences. OK, I made some mistakes and got some crappy treatment, but it's all part of life's rich tapestry to me. Besides, if I dwell on the negatives, I'd probably go mad. Er, madder than I am already.

I know that not everyone here feels that way, most have good reason to be very angry. But the way I look at it, the CoS might have messed you up royally in the past - don't let them continue to do so by holding onto the upset. If you want to get back at them, show them you don't need them anymore and live a successful life.

Don't mean to preach to anyone, that's just my opinion.

Axiom142

For sure Axion, and anyone else that has perhaps taken my unintentional generality of 'we' a tad too seriously. I agree with what you are saying here too, about not holding onto things, and I do make a conscious effort not to, however sometimes when I read things on this board, especially from a freezone perspective, and when there is rudness in their as well, it's difficult for me not to see red and all the negative comes flooding back. I have said on a previous post that not ALL of my time inside the cult was bad, of course there were good times too, why else would I have stayed as long as I did, and I didn't even leave, I didn't want to leave, I got kicked out onto the street with no prior warning! I do not feel you are preaching Axiom and like everyone else on this board, you are entitled to your opinion especially when that opinion comes from a place of positive intention.

 

[Terril park]

Not just that, pm'ing people to try and convert them to your particular therapy / teaching etc.

Hmm. I havn't done that. Wasn't aware anyone had. I do
answer PMs addressed to me however.

Does posting this brand me as someone with a covert agenda?

Lol!

 

[Voltaire's Child]

You are entitled to think as you wish Fluffbag, however telling someone they're having a 'friendly fuck' with you saying you apologised when you didn't, having convenient amnesia, and accusing you of being OSA isn't exactly rules of conduct either. And what's worse, it when defending this, it was I who was warned by Thor, not the party who started the spat in the first place.

I have not seen that post or thread. I'm sorry if anyone was unfair toward you (or toward a/one else) - truly.

There are no utopias and that's why we have human mistakes, personality conflicts, it's why sometimes people say things they really shouldn't say.

 

[Zinjifar]

Hmm. I havn't done that. Wasn't aware anyone had. I do
answer PMs addressed to me however.

Does posting this brand me as someone with a covert agenda?

Lol!

Covert???

Zinj

 

[Pixie]

I have not seen that post or thread. I'm sorry if anyone was unfair toward you (or toward a/one else) - truly.

There are no utopias and that's why we have human mistakes, personality conflicts, it's why sometimes people say things they really shouldn't say.

Well I'm glad you've taken responsibility for that Fluff, indeed perhaps many did not read that whole thread in detail considering some of the feeback I am getting here, however I will reiterrate, I will not be spoken to like shit from someone I hardley know.

Sure, and I say it a lot, none of us are perfect, in fact you and I have had similar conversations before, but it's the intentions behind some people's desicions that don't quite sit right with me and everyone's viewpoint is and should be allowed but with possibly a more compassionate intention.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

If I were going to proselytize my view it would only be to say that maybe those who like Scn should be open to other things, too, and that it could do them a world of good. I personally truly believe that the other practices caveat/prohibition is mostly bs.

As do I and quite a large number of freezoners with whom I am personally acquainted.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Div6]

Re-read my post if you did not get it the first time. You may take your scientology information back to your FZ mailing lists.


This is the Ex-Scientologist Message Board. It is the message board for those are OUT of scientology. If that offends you, take your wares and hit the road.
Smitty

Yes, that is the NAME but if you care to review the entire history of the board, you will see that the FZ and its topics have been here since day one. Are you suggesting all those posts and references should be deleted? Should Emma pst a disclaimer that says "Some Ex'es have chosen to persue Scn practices in other arenas, and their discussion is allowed on this board?"

I'm sorry, but I find such pin-headedness a little too much to take from some "Johnny Come Lately". Again, you are free to sdet up your own sandbox to play in...

 

[Pixie]

And quoted in my post to add to its redeeming value here on ESMB.

Roan should not be banned.

No, he should not, this is ridiculous in the extreme, but as I have said before, there does appear to be rules for some and rules for others. Moderators should not be prejudiced either way, however it doesn't appear to be this way for 'Thor'. If someone is to be 'banned' they ought to at the very least have three or four prior warnings and not just be chucked out in the blink of an eye, or at the extremity of a pigs' trotter for that matter.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Well, it wasn't exactly a question of taking responsibility- I can't take responsibility for something someone else said or did. Although I guess I could learn from it, make a point to know about it and that sort of thing.

If something happens, back channel isn't a bad idea but since that's not always the way all the parties involved may want to go, then I'd suggest going in on that thread and saying to the person that this and this that was said to you wasn't cool, that you were offended, and why. Being called OSA, as you mentioned happened, is a pretty bad slur. I've seen it done a lot, but when the person's not OSA, then it's not right or just.

I know what it's like to be slammed or slurred or spoken against on forums. It sucks but with some people (not everybody but some) one can talk it out and maybe get them to apologize. By this I don't mean it's some ego exercise, like, oh I gotta have an apology, but more that this other person would need to know about what they did that was wrong and why.

It's just like this thing- years ago, friends of ours said something about my not telling their kids the truth- (and, no, I don't proselytize and never did so that couldn't have been it) but they never ever told me or told John (to whom they'd complained) what it was that I'd said that wasn't ok. To this day, I don't know. Not a good way of expressing that something was wrong.

 

[acertainratio]

For sure Axion, and anyone else that has perhaps taken my unintentional generality of 'we' a tad too seriously. I agree with what you are saying here too, about not holding onto things, and I do make a conscious effort not to, however sometimes when I read things on this board, especially from a freezone perspective, and when there is rudness in their as well, it's difficult for me not to see red and all the negative comes flooding back. I have said on a previous post that not ALL of my time inside the cult was bad, of course there were good times too, why else would I have stayed as long as I did, and I didn't even leave, I didn't want to leave, I got kicked out onto the street with no prior warning! I do not feel you are preaching Axiom and like everyone else on this board, you are entitled to your opinion especially when that opinion comes from a place of positive intention.

I think that you have done this board a great favour by raising valid points and sticking to your guns. Scientology does have a lot to answer for, and that in includes the Cof$, the FZ, and all Hubbard inspired and derived 'tech'.

People who have been hurt, lied to, and defrauded have a right to complain loudly.

I think that quite a few FZ'ers would never have left the Cof$ if they hadn't been booted out.

Hubbard was a madman.

The Bridge is a nonsense.

It goes nowhere.

They - the Cof$ and FZ should stop making promises that are false and can't be kept.

It's fucked up in a way that's gone too far.

Actually, it's pretty criminal.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

As do I and quite a large number of freezoners with whom I am personally acquainted.


Mark A. Baker

Great minds think alike! Ok, I was prolly unfair at implying that it's like that (the hidebound thing) everywhere in the FZ. I have seen people get kind of --well vehement- about the idea of doing other stuff but yeah, it's not everybody.

 

[Terril park]

Because they want to.

They want to go into that den of proselytizing mind-control brainwashers and free the inhabitants there.

It's huge fun and very therapeutic for some people after the cult to launch out on their next quixotic quest to free the world of Scientology Evangelism of Any Kind!

It's excellent. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. And it's also good to spot the thinking that had you entrapped for so long and expose it to others for what it is.

I highly recommend it!

If they weren't here, we couldn't do that.

I'm one of the fish. On OCMB, a rather comfy forum for some, I've been photoshopped with my face on a dog turd,
with my pants being wet, and so on multiple times expanded in fact.

So glad I can help humanity in this small way with such
therapy.

Here I'm trying to keep up on this thread and its growing faster than I can read. What to do? Keep on reading.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoFXR6BrojI

Paul

Thanks for this post, Paul. Cream was the BEST!


Mark A. Baker

 

[Smitty]

reply to Div6

Yes, that is the NAME but if you care to review the entire history of the board, you will see that the FZ and its topics have been here since day one. Are you suggesting all those posts and references should be deleted? Should Emma pst a disclaimer that says "Some Ex'es have chosen to persue Scn practices in other arenas, and their discussion is allowed on this board?"

Yes, the freezone forum should be terminated. It should not have been allowed in the first place. It was given a chance.

I'm sorry, but I find such pin-headedness a little too much to take from some "Johnny Come Lately". Again, you are free to sdet up your own sandbox to play in...

I am not sorry and find your scientology condenscension unacceptable here on the Ex-Scientologist Message Board. Take your scientology brainwash propaganda back to your anti-free speech freezone email lists. We don't need or want that here.
Smitty

 

[Terril park]

Really the problem is is that no one is actually willing to get a grip on Teril in the FZ despite him being exposed here on this forum.

The FZ here are an easy target when there isn't a real Church Scientologist around to target. I have now decided to only go after or break away from people, individuals who have caused myself actual harm or upset and not go after the whole lot.

As soon as I've read this thread I shall start a new one where others can take pot shots at me.

You've expressed something I've often felt. I get targeted as there are no COS members to be targeted.

Used to being a target.

 

[Smitty]

comment to acertainratio

I think that you have done this board a great favour by raising valid points and sticking to your guns. Scientology does have a lot to answer for, and that in includes the Cof$, the FZ, and all Hubbard inspired and derived 'tech'.
People who have been hurt, lied to, and defrauded have a right to complain loudly.
I think that quite a few FZ'ers would never have left the Cof$ if they hadn't been booted out.

And most would go back if Davey Miscavige would be removed and "the tech" reverted back to 1982. Almost all would go back if Davey was removed and "the tech" reverted back to 1978.

Hubbard was a madman.
The Bridge is a nonsense.
It goes nowhere.
They - the Cof$ and FZ should stop making promises that are false and can't be kept.
It's fucked up in a way that's gone too far.
Actually, it's pretty criminal.

All statements true.
Smitty

 

[Div6]

Yes, the freezone forum should be terminated. It should not have been allowed in the first place. It was given a chance.

I am not sorry and find your scientology condenscension unacceptable here on the Ex-Scientologist Message Board. Take your scientology brainwash propaganda back to your anti-free speech freezone email lists. We don't need or want that here.
Smitty

Baaaaawwwwwww!
Take your butt-hurt to Emma. Its her board.

And also, who is "we"?

You shouldn't try to hide behind a generality.

I'm sorry that you seem to believe this is your personal board.
But we got along just dandy when you weren't here.
And so we will in the future.