ESMB and The Freezone - let's have it out!

[Voltaire's Child]

Is the "you" in your statement above a generalized "you," or were you referring to me specifically? If you feel that I (or anyone else) has violated the ROCs of this board, I'd suggest you report it.



I think that difference is quite well understood by most of the members of this board who do not (some may have in the past, but no longer) practice scientology.



Again, with the "you" in your above statement that I've highlighted in red, is that a generalized "you"? and if so who are you (I mean you, Fluffy) referring to? Or were you referring to me specifically?

Because if you were referring to me, you/Fluffy should note that I never in all my years of posting on this forum or any other forum on the internet or in any conversation in real life (which of course you/Fluffy wouldn't know since you/Fluffy don't know me and have never been involved in a conversation with me of any kind, ever) or in any other way have ever once during my more than sixty years of life suggested or implied that, as you put it above...



Not my scary idea.

As I wrote in the post you quoted in the post of yours that I quoted, I favor uncensored/ unmoderated forums. I also favor in real life uncensored press and publications, art, TV, movies, etc. etc. etc. You know -- the kind of uncensored environment where people can speak out honestly about how they really think and feel about things.

For example, an environment in which if I don't like the way the scientologists (who post on this forum) behave, I am free to express my uncensored opinion about that (as I have already on this thread), without having my opinions censored.

Hi, I was responding to your comment about not having to be nice. As you know, I respond to individual posts individually.

Yes, I did mean you in that you are on more than one forum with rules of conduct. Again, this harkens back to your comment about not having to be nice or not feeling that it's an obligation, etc.

This forum is moderated. It has ROCs. OCMB is less moderated and it, too, has rules of conduct. It says to be "friendly"- among other things. You post to both forums. So do I. I was referring to your comment about not feeling that one has to be nice when, point of fact, there are ROCs on both forums.

 

[Vinaire]

LOL!!!



​

Now! Is that Hubbardonian?

.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

cough

COUGHCOUGHCOUGHCOUGH cough cough

hack wheeeze.

coughcoughcough.

Uh...
cough
cough...

Actually, it's true. Beliefnet Scn forum- one of them- has a post from an Anon welcoming and inviting all FZers to anon demonstrations. I've seen other posts like that, too. I also know Freezoners who've talked most cordially with anons on an ongoing basis.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Sorry Ladybird, however in my view, if one is applying $cientology 'tech', no matter what one cares to call it, it's $cientology.

I rarely pay a nickel for any of it, nor have I been repeatedly regged or asked to max out credit cards, mortgage my house, etc. And I know others for whom this is the same. So the dollar sign is not applicable to everyone.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

My thoughts exactly Ladybird! I think that says it all don't you?

No, I think it makes him a perfect example of a fallible human being. I've never seen any post where he claims to be perfect and full on "Operating Thetan" as a state of being. None.

Further, I've not seen any "tech" prohibition against using the quote function or any auditing question or green on white release addressing that. So I assume that Terril's shortcomings are Terril's shortcomings.

It's a novel concept but it just might work.

Sorry to get in the way of the witchhunt. Carry on.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Here I'll send it to 1000 - I changed my mind. ban the fuck out of the freezoners. Bunch of losers anyhow. get a life.

Howzat?

They do have lives.

Would you rather live in a bubble where only people who have your same beliefs or opinions are allowed to accompany you? Remember, yadda yadda...global village...diversity.

(Sometimes liberals really do make sense. Almost.)

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Just quickly; the bit about caring and connecting I'd definitely go along with, but as for the licensed professionals - I once had a clinical psychologist who invalidated me left, right and centre and left me with a heap of bypassed charge. I'd have been better off talking to a cleaning lady if her heart was in the right place (and we were compatible personalities).

I think it's up to the person whether or not he or she wishes to ditch all of Scn or some of it or none of it. It's not up to other people.

There are some people who've spent years trying to run deprogrammer type programs on other contributors. Well, I believe in live and let live.

If a friend came to me- and actually it HAS happened- and said they were not only leaving CofS but wanted NOTHING to do with Scn ever and thought it was shit, I'd support them and I wouldn't feel one moment of sadness.

I think that should be reciprocated. It's just not the other contributors' business if someone decides they want to study Scn. I don't mean that they shouldn't say what they think about the FZ or Scn or whatever. They should. But when they start telling others directly to that person what those people should or shouldn't believe- and there some who did this A LOT- then that's way out of line, IMO. 'Cuz, here's a news flash to those who do that- you're proselytizing too and you're offending some people, too.

 

[Escalus]

Actually, it's true. Beliefnet Scn forum- one of them- has a post from an Anon welcoming and inviting all FZers to anon demonstrations. I've seen other posts like that, too. I also know Freezoners who've talked most cordially with anons on an ongoing basis.

Not true or false, probably. certainly open for debate. mr park got his ass banned from Enturbulation for selling his wares, and I can't think of any Chianons who want freezoners around. in fact, if you listen to them, they're next. So - open for debate I'd say.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Not true or false, probably. certainly open for debate. mr park got his ass banned from Enturbulation for selling his wares, and I can't think of any Chianons who want freezoners around. in fact, if you listen to them, they're next. So - open for debate I'd say.

There's a difference between not having any communication or relationship between FZ and the Anons and someone or people in the FZ trying to proselytize to the Anons.

 

[Alanzo]

Now! Is that Hubbardonian?

.

I've been laughing all day about this.

I was standing in a line at the gas station and I thought about your reply again. I busted out laughing. The person in front of me in line turned around and looked at me like, "Who are you laughing at?"

I had to apologize and say that I wasn't laughing at anyone here, just laughing at something someone said to me earlier today.

He stared at me like I was lying to him.

I said, "No. Really! I was laughing at something someone said to me on the Internet!" He finally seemed to believe me and turned around.

Then I laughed about it again going out to my car.

That was very funny, and very much appreciated, Vinaire!!

 

[Alanzo]

I rarely pay a nickel for any of it, nor have I been repeatedly regged or asked to max out credit cards, mortgage my house, etc. And I know others for whom this is the same. So the dollar sign is not applicable to everyone.

That is a valid point.

 

[Escalus]

There's a difference between not having any communication or relationship between FZ and the Anons and someone or people in the FZ trying to proselytize to the Anons.

There was enough residual feeling remaining after the fact to draw fire. Admittedly there are anons who like to say "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", but there seems to be an equal chorus of voices certain - like others here at ESMB - that either the freezoners fall over each other trying to snatch up the leftovers when Davey's gone or that Scientology's special brand of absolutism is simply inherent in the "tech".

Time will tell I suppose.

 

[Terril park]

Not true or false, probably. certainly open for debate. mr park got his ass banned from Enturbulation for selling his wares, and I can't think of any Chianons who want freezoners around. in fact, if you listen to them, they're next. So - open for debate I'd say.

Some of anons best people got banned.

Anons have always help up my FZ picket signs at protests.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

There was enough residual feeling remaining after the fact to draw fire. Admittedly there are anons who like to say "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", but there seems to be an equal chorus of voices certain - like others here at ESMB - that either the freezoners fall over each other trying to snatch up the leftovers when Davey's gone or that Scientology's special brand of absolutism is simply inherent in the "tech".

Time will tell I suppose.

I think a bit of both of what you say. I really would not trust anyone who took over the reins of power when DM leaves/gets booted out/runs for his life/gets arrested. I also think there is some absolutism inherent in Scn. This is a shame, but it's really true.

 

[grundy]

This thread is getting so big its hard to keep up lol

 

[Vinaire]

This thread is getting so big its hard to keep up lol

Best is to randomly pick a post and respond to it any way you like.

This works for me.

.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

(Sometimes liberals really do make sense. Almost.)

FINALLY something you & I can disagree about Fluff!

Although a lifelong Goldwater Republican, for thirty years I've been convinced that the u.s. republican party is trying to prove CBR was right about insane intergalactic conspiracies. During that time period the relatively sane members of the u.s. political class have, from my perspective, been the liberals.

Obama may be a lousy candidate but the thought of another contemporary republican (McCain, Feh!) selecting more supreme court justices is simply too awful to contemplate.

AuH2O!

Mark A. Baker

 

[Vinaire]

FINALLY something you & I can disagree about Fluff!

Although a lifelong Goldwater Republican, for thirty years I've been convinced that the u.s. republican party is trying to prove CBR was right about insane intergalactic conspiracies. During that time period the relatively sane members of the u.s. political class have, from my perspective, been the liberals.

Obama may be a lousy candidate but the thought of another contemporary republican (McCain, Feh!) selecting more supreme court justices is simply too awful to contemplate.

AuH2O!

Mark A. Baker

I think that Scientologists are usually intelligent, but when it comes to politics, all bets are off.

.

 

[gomorrhan]

You're right. All bets are off. Some people will actually get hysterical and back war-mongering Keating Five criminals who would like to deregulate even further so that corporations can more deeply control and dominate the supposed governments that they have usurped the functions of.

 

[nw2394]

Recently I have had reason to question the easy going stance on ESMB to the Freezone.

I have read certain threads that concern me, have received a number of PMs from concerned members and visited a FZ forum and recieved an interesting "welcome".

Originally I decided that FZers were welcome here because fundamentally they are Ex Scientologists. Now I have some reasons to be concerned about this apparent "affiliation" with the FZ and a perception that ESMB is a recruiting ground for and/or a free advertising venue to a larger audience for the FZ.

I haven't made any decision regarding this as yet and I'm looking for some feedback. Please don't get hysterical about this. I'm really after some thought out responses.

I want to know what you all think.

Well, where do you draw the line Emma? Get rid of FZers, then who next? Alan doesn't call himself a Scio or a FZer and there are differences between him and Scio. But there are HUGE similarities too. But Alan has been, also, a huge contributor to this board.

Actually, as far as I can see, very few FZers come here. It is not as if FZers are coming here in droves to recruit every last one of you.

Also, "recovery" is not all about turning your back on Scio - or at least it isn't for a lot of people. One needs the full width of experiences and viewpoints.

Nick