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Ex-member of the CoS- Brian Cox

Re: Emotion vs HE&R

Human Emotion and Reaction, the counter emotions and reations which aberrated human beings express when they are guided toward survival objectives. They are usually below 2.0 on the Tone Scale. (LRH Def. Notes) Abbr. HE & R.

— L. Ron Hubbard
Modern Management Technology Defined


I understand what you're describing, but that's not HE & R, it's unprofessionalism in the workplace example and plain old rudeness in the second, specifically scenario B. :coolwink:

But that's what it MEANS, though.
 
Re: Emotion vs HE&R

But that's what it MEANS, though.

No, read that definition. Hubbard was NOT talking about the same thing you are. He was setting up a way to stop people from objecting or protesting when he pulled some crazy ass stunt. And that's how it was used in the church. Upset that you have to work around the clock on some order from uplines? Knock off the HE & R. Pissed off that your senior just ripped your face off for no reason in front of everyone? Knock off the HE & R. On and on, ad infinitum. Time and again it reduced your legitimate reactions and upsets to bank.

You're trying to make the term acceptable and it isn't.
 
There are normal and usual emotional responses, and then there are non sequitur and exaggerated emotional reactions.

As I understood it when I read this stuff in Scientology, HE&R did NOT imply that all emotions were bad, lowly and undesirable. In Science of Survival, Hubbard talked about how a person in good shape would move all over the Tone Scale, as external situations demanded. The person would feel grief when his dog died, would get angry if somebody stole his TV, and would feel joy when seeing his newborn baby for the first time. What I got out of it was that a person in good shape would generally be in a happy state and would respond appropriately as life happened.

The HE&R referred to inappropriate emotional responses, either because they were completely unrelated to the trigger, or exaggerated in some way. Examples of HE&R:

1. A person hears that his friend was late for an appointment. He breaks into tears and cries. Inappropriate and exaggerated reaction.

2. A person sees their best friend run over by a car. She shrugs and says, "no biggie, he'll pick up another body". No response, quite inappropriate.

3. Somebody drops a pencil in your office. You stand up and scream at them to quiet down. Inappropriate and exaggerated reaction.

The idea of HE&R is that these emotional reactions are automatic uncontrollable responses. Hubbard explains all of this as being due to the reactive mind.

Now, in my many years of life and experience, I have learned that there is NO DOUBT that many people display inappropriate and exaggerated emotional reactions that are quite beyond their rational control or understanding. There is probably a reason for this and it has to do with factors relating to his or her mind. While Hubbard may have been off on the details of how he explained all of this, the general situation occurs. Hubbard wasn't talking about imaginary human behaviors though the model he created to explain these behaviors may have been somewhat imaginary.

I don't want to be around people who tend to "fly off the handle". THAT is what I understood to be HE&R.

Also though, while Hubbard himself said that there is a time and a place for usual emotions (including any up or down along the Tone Scale), involvement with Scientology often does tend to suppress even normal emotions. Part of this is because Scientology suppresses love and compassion, even though these aren't actually emotions.

Note: From a viewpoint of strict eastern philosophy, as a person transcends the desires of the physical plane, and as he or she discards attachments, this person will settle into a general state of peace and serenity where external events do NOT any longer trigger emotional reactions and responses. This person has found that all joy and happiness comes from within. Emotions as reactions and responses to external events and situations have been replaced by a self-created permanent inner joy that is unshaken by the changes of life.

This state would be above and beyond the top of Hubbard's Tone Scale. In a sense it DOES transcend what is usually experienced as "human". It is "beyond human". How you value that and whether you see that as good or bad will depend more on YOU than upon much of anything else.

On another level, Hubbard tricks people into thinking that Scientology is all about this higher state of "serenity of beingness". It is just another trick and lure to bait the trap.

And yes Jquepublic, the term HE&R was/is often used in Scientology to attack and handle any barrier to production. KNOCK OFF THE BACKFLASH!
 
Inappropriate emotional responses are just that - inappropriate emotional responses. Attributing them to "HE & R" attributes them to bank, and while I can fully appreciate the temptation to do that on occasion, it's still cult think.

ALL emotions are human emotions. Hubbard distinguished as he did for his own nefarious purposes.
 
Inappropriate emotional responses are just that - inappropriate emotional responses. Attributing them to "HE & R" attributes them to bank, and while I can fully appreciate the temptation to do that on occasion, it's still cult think.

ALL emotions are human emotions. Hubbard distinguished as he did for his own nefarious purposes.

But there is a very wide range of degree in terms of intensity, depth and connection of emotions to life events.

HE&R doesn't cause inappropriate emotional responses. HE&R is these inappropriate emotional responses.As I see it, some or many ARE caused by and can be attributed to some automatic below-conscious aspect of the human mind. What would you call it? Do you think this is all make believe hocus-pocus? I am sure that there are many theories within the legitimate field psychology that looks at this in a similar way, albeit using different terms and models.

To me, there is no doubt some realm of the subconscious mind that holds and continues negative energies that manifest in some people as exaggerated and inappropriate emotional responses. Call it "bank", or call it whatever you find is a better term.

When Judy leaves her cake in the oven for 5 minutes too long and burns it, what do you think is happening when she screams at the top of her lungs, breaks into tears, and throws the wooden dough roller through the kitchen window?

Hubbard wasn't that off in terms of what he was describing here. That doesn't make Scientology good or right. It just means that as far as this one isolated area of ideas goes, his statements weren't totally off-the-wall.
 
Omg! I'm so confused! This is the first time I've heard of this HE&R.. Most Scn Speak I can (and have) figured out (sometimes I find myself using it, weird huh? Means I'm reading too much lol)

Anyway, not trying to stir the pot, I promise.. But without some context I'm at a loss.. I think when I read this sentence below I totally had the wrong and possibly opposite understanding of what was meant/intended. Now after reading all these posts as to what HE&R means I'm still scratching my head.

Can somone rewrite it using regular words?

?..without any understanding and HE&R.

I took it to mean without any understanding and without any human emotion and response.
but I feel like I have read plenty human emotions and they were all human responses.

Im really not trying to poke the bear or be a pain in the ass.. Just trying to understand.

Thanks!!!
 
Re: Emotion vs HE&R

No, read that definition. Hubbard was NOT talking about the same thing you are. He was setting up a way to stop people from objecting or protesting when he pulled some crazy ass stunt. And that's how it was used in the church. Upset that you have to work around the clock on some order from uplines? Knock off the HE & R. Pissed off that your senior just ripped your face off for no reason in front of everyone? Knock off the HE & R. On and on, ad infinitum. Time and again it reduced your legitimate reactions and upsets to bank.

You're trying to make the term acceptable and it isn't.

QUITE correct Jquepublic.

N.B. "the counter emotions and reactions which aberrated human beings express when they are guided toward survival objectives."

Now, "survival" for WHOM? Based on what criteria? Well, for Hisself of course. "Work 24 hours/day to help 'save the planet'." [translation] "Work 24/7 to get more gold into Hisself's Swiss accounts"...
 
But there is a very wide range of degree in terms of intensity, depth and connection of emotions to life events.

HE&R doesn't cause inappropriate emotional responses. HE&R is these inappropriate emotional responses.As I see it, some or many ARE caused by and can be attributed to some automatic below-conscious aspect of the human mind. What would you call it? Do you think this is all make believe hocus-pocus? I am sure that there are many theories within the legitimate field psychology that looks at this in a similar way, albeit using different terms and models.

To me, there is no doubt some realm of the subconscious mind that holds and continues negative energies that manifest in some people as exaggerated and inappropriate emotional responses. Call it "bank", or call it whatever you find is a better term.

When Judy leaves her cake in the oven for 5 minutes too long and burns it, what do you think is happening when she screams at the top of her lungs, breaks into tears, and throws the wooden dough roller through the kitchen window?

Hubbard wasn't that off in terms of what he was describing here. That doesn't make Scientology good or right. It just means that as far as this one isolated area of ideas goes, his statements weren't totally off-the-wall.

It's Hubbard's take that I find objectionable, because it specifies a range of emotions that he found inappropriate and needed/wanted to control. Had he defined it as you do, I wouldn't have a disagreement with the term. But here's what he wrote, copied from Caroline's website as I don't own a tech dictionary these days.

Human Emotion and Reaction, the counter emotions and reations which aberrated human beings express when they are guided toward survival objectives. They are usually below 2.0 on the Tone Scale. (LRH Def. Notes) Abbr. HE & R.

Claire's example of a reply to a boss would be an example of unprofessionalism or immaturity. The example of the attack on a message forum is another example of immaturity IMO, and flat out rude.

NOW...I have most definitely seen non-sequitor outbursts here on ESMB and elsewhere that I would be tempted to attach this label to, so it's not that I don't get where you're coming from. But wouldn't those fit the definition of misemotion - an inappropriate emotional response to a stimulus - than HE & R? Or strip away the Scientologese altogether and call it an irrational reaction?
 
Omg! I'm so confused! This is the first time I've heard of this HE&R.. Most Scn Speak I can (and have) figured out (sometimes I find myself using it, weird huh? Means I'm reading too much lol)

Anyway, not trying to stir the pot, I promise.. But without some context I'm at a loss.. I think when I read this sentence below I totally had the wrong and possibly opposite understanding of what was meant/intended. Now after reading all these posts as to what HE&R means I'm still scratching my head.

Can somone rewrite it using regular words?



I took it to mean without any understanding and without any human emotion and response.
but I feel like I have read plenty human emotions and they were all human responses.

Im really not trying to poke the bear or be a pain in the ass.. Just trying to understand.

Thanks!!!

It's an acronym. Scn'ists tend to like those.

Human Emotion and Reaction. It pertains to the no case on post thing where you do your job and you don't dump emotions all over people. Just like in an office, one would hope.
 
There've been lots of posts before about the cult's use of the concept of HE&R. Most, including me, agree that it's usually used against the individual. (regardless of stated meaning)

My approach to it in this thread was per the stated ostensible meaning. Again, I recognize that the cult would never give anyone a fair shake and that if a person runs into that concept in the cult, things are definitely not going so well for that person.

On this thread, Brian Cox used it evidently out of frustration at having some people unload on him. I have the impression that maybe he doesn't so much feel bad about people disagreeing with him about the ology so much as the fact that some were telling him what to do and scolding him and that sort of thing. My speculation is that out of this frustration, came his HE&R comment which was subsequently gleefully pounced upon by some and possibly stored as future ammo against the unfortunate Mr. Cox.
 
I'm still not getting it..

Can HE&R be substituted for other words? If so, what words? what would a layman use to say the same thing?
 
HE & R. Abbrev for Human Emotion and Reaction.

It means having human emotion and reaction when you should just be going, hey, where is that pc file, here's that report you wanted, sir.

It pertains to how a person behaves when they are "on post" which means when they are working. It does NOT pertain to how a person acts at home with his kid, in bed with his partner or how he feels when under a car that has just run over him.
 
I'm still not getting it..

Can HE&R be substituted for other words? If so, what words? what would a layman use to say the same thing?

Anger, upset, antagonism - Hubbard specified that the emotions would be usually below 2.0 on the tone scale so there's a big list.
 
HE & R. Abbrev for Human Emotion and Reaction.

It means having human emotion and reaction when you should just be going, hey, where is that pc file, here's that report you wanted, sir.

It pertains to how a person behaves when they are "on post" which means when they are working. It does NOT pertain to how a person acts at home with his kid, in bed with his partner or how he feels when under a car that has just run over him.

Claire, I think you're confusing it with case on post.

I know it seems like I'm picking on you but I'm not, I swear. :confused2:
 
Claire, I think you're confusing it with case on post.

I know it seems like I'm picking on you but I'm not, I swear. :confused2:


From what I read, they were talking about emoting on post. Or, possibly, in a given situation like maybe being in an event. I can grab my Green Dictionary when I get home 'cept I think it's in a box somewhere. Do you have yours handy?
 
No. It pertained to reacting while on post.

LOL I was just responding to something you said about this.

No it didn't. That's case on post you're thinking of. The terms were often used interchangibly though. But HE & R doesn't pertain to post, only to reactions and emotions.
 
From what I read, they were talking about emoting on post. Or, possibly, in a given situation like maybe being in an event. I can grab my Green Dictionary when I get home 'cept I think it's in a box somewhere. Do you have yours handy?

I got rid of all my Scn stuff, but the PDFs are around online.
 
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