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Flagdown 2014: media coverage, etc

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
http://www.flagdown.org/I hope the sound/recording problems get worked out soon. I am wondering what CofS is going to do about the picket on the 10th.

They've already gotten permits to shut down the sidewalks in front of the Fort Harrison & the south entrance to the Flag SP Building during the duration of Flag Down.

Several anons in the area also say the cult has paid moonlighting Clearwater Police officers to position themselves & their patrol cars in front of the properties. Clearly, the mayor & the police are favoring the cult this week.

FYI.. Minnireg Hall is outside the jurisdiction of the Clearwater Police. The Pinellas County Sheriff is responsible for the area around Minnireg .
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
Ironic, I checked the docket of the Pinellas County Circuit Court for the last 3 days and no injunction against Flag Down, Laura A. Flynn, Pete Griffiths or Arnie Lerma exists & there are a number of injunctions listed with today's date.. May 5.
 

Leland

Crusader
They've already gotten permits to shut down the sidewalks in front of the Fort Harrison & the south entrance to the Flag SP Building during the duration of Flag Down.

Several anons in the area also say the cult has paid moonlighting Clearwater Police officers to position themselves & their patrol cars in front of the properties. Clearly, the mayor & the police are favoring the cult this week.

FYI.. Minnireg Hall is outside the jurisdiction of the Clearwater Police. The Pinellas County Sheriff is responsible for the area around Minnireg .

Smurf , I was a bit concerned about getting tied up someway with the LMT thing and the. c of s regarding my future protesting at flag. And now today, see my concerns weren't unfounded via ESMB posts. I would appreciate your input on this.
 

Leland

Crusader
Ironic, I checked the docket of the Pinellas County Circuit Court for the last 3 days and no injunction against Flag Down, Laura A. Flynn, Pete Griffiths or Arnie Lerma exists & there are a number of injunctions listed with today's date.. May 5.

Yes, one prior post said they were fake suppenas. Or might have been on WWP .
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
Smurf , I was a bit concerned about getting tied up someway with the LMT thing and the. c of s regarding my future protesting at flag. And now today, see my concerns weren't unfounded via ESMB posts. I would appreciate your input on this.

Leland, as long as you are a peaceful protester & follow all laws, you will be fine. The cult does the same thing to me, Tory & others when we protest..phony threats, threats to call the police, phony permits or claiming much more are on actual permits than really stated. The cult are pros at deception. It's why when I'm confronted by a Scilon or cop who says the cult has a street permit, I demand to see it.

The cult knows it can't use the LMT injunction against any of the protesters which is why they got permits to close large areas of public sidewalks around the Ft. Harrison & SP Building. I wouldn't be surprised if new permits pop up blocking the sidewalks & alley around the Cleveland Building as well.

Darth Xander, a Chicago attorney who has met with Clearwater Police officials is there at Flag Down. The CPD has informed him that the cult cannot use the "guilt by association" ploy with the group. Only those individuals listed on the injunction are subject to arrest if they violate the injunction.

If you're going to protest with the group & have apprehensions, then ask someone to point you out to Darth. He'll assure you as well. :)
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I am watching John Sweeney, well listening really as the vid is out of synch - he is such a funny man. Maybe an OK audio can be made of this speech, I hope so.
 

The_Fixer

Class Clown
No. I grew up in New Zealand. Actually I'm still here, trying to grow up, or find a suitable boat to escape on - not sure which. :melodramatic:

I know the rotten eggs smell though - in areas where there is thermal activity (e.g. Rotorua), the sulfuric gas sinks. It is great though if someone, ya know, passes wind, cos no one notices. True. :biggrin:

Rotorua, AKA pong-a-rua.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Uh, isn't Arnie Lerma also banned from "protesting" by the same Lisa McPherson Trust-era injunction that the Clearwater Anon organizer said prohibited Mark Bunker from attending the conference?

Don't understand this.

I was never named on that injunction...

I was frivolously charged with violating it in 2001? was it? and found not guilty... during the Clearwater 13 trial..

Mr Bunker was named on that old injunction, and I spoke with the renter of the hall and determined that they do not dislike Mr Bunker. The renter of the hall , like Mr Bunker, dislikes that old injunction, and the 'color of law' it affords $cientology... They just did not have the 50 grand that Minton spent on our defense back then...laying around to fight with the psychopaths in court...if they had admitted him as the way that weasel worded bit of art is phrased is might be interpreted to cover all of pinellas county... and the Judge that signed it is now dead..



arnie lerma
 
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Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
I was never named on that injunction...

I was frivolously charged with violating it in 2001? was it? and found not guilty... during the Clearwater 13 trial..

Mr Bunker was named on that old injunction, and I spoke with the renter of the hall and determined that they do not dislike Mr Bunker. The renter of the hall , like Mr Bunker, dislikes that old injunction, and the 'color of law' it affords $cientology.

The Miinnireg staff didn't give the boot to Mark. Laura Flynn did. It is well-known that she dislikes Mark with a passion & Mark admitted as much in his latest response to Tony O's blog.

If she is laying the blame for what happened on Minnireg staff, she is a liar. There have been multiple posts from her on WWP dissing Mark Bunker & others in the "OG".
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
From WWP:

https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/flag-down-2014-full-schedule.118222/page-7#post-2451200

Hi guise. I'm almost crying from the support here. I wish I'd been able to see this a few hours ago. This past weekend and tonight have been hellish. While everyone else is vacationing and doing radio and tv interviews I've been doing the grunt work for this conference. Please keep in mind when you read this wall of text that I am still sick. There's a flu going around that keeps coming back. While all these things were happening my fever was spiking and then it would break.

Yes a process server or fake process server did bring me a true copy of the LMT injunction today while I was finishing up some of the decorations for the conference. Decorations that I made with my own money and on my own time. The guy who delivered it did make sure that I noted the page that was highlighted in orange basically stating that I can't be in concert with anyone listed on the injunction. Yeah. I get it. BTW The Norwegian film crew with Geir got a hold of my copy which I took to the venue. They asked for it so I gave it to them. I told them to throw it away when they were done with it because that's what I was going to do with it.

I took off from my home around 3:30PM with my conference clothes in a publix grocery bag because I had to sweat for two hours setting up the gym with only my husband to help. I didn't get a chance to even wipe my face or put on make-up of anything. I simply put on my conference clothes in the bathroom at the Minnreg.

I go to sit down at the entrance table and I see Tom Smith outside. I no longer speak to Tom Smith and that is my right. I have not had a conversation with Tom Smith in quite a few months so if he is telling people that he spoke with me about a month ago that is not true. Tom Smith did tell Darth Xander that he would not be attending Flag Down because I was going to be there. Tom Smith did inform Xander that he would be attending the brunch held by TheHoleDoesNotExist on Wednesday morning. So even though I am friends with THDNE I contacted her and told her what was going on and that I would not attend so that Tom could attend an event. She understood even though now people will never see the baton twirling contest that she and I were going to take part in.

I go outside to ask the police officer to ask Tom Smith to leave and I come face-to-face with Mark Bunker who is surrounded by quite a few people.

I immediately went to the police officer that I hired and asked him to please ask these two men to leave. None of you will ever know what it feels like to tell someone about this injunction and that the people listed on it can't be in concert with other critics and have the person look at you and say, "Why did he show up then?" It's hard to make people with good common sense understand it.

The officer was cordial, but did have to finally insist that they both leave because both of them starting bantering loudly back-and-forth about how they were being kicked out. They were just blithering and not moving so the officer told them they needed to leave now.

Of course the whole thing is being filmed and everyone is not understanding what's going on so I try to explain that I'm protecting myself and everyone else when Joe Childs steps up to introduce himself and shake my hand and then ask for an explanation. This is all happening just minutes before we're supposed to start.

I knew there would be severe complaints for my making Bunker and Smith leave.

I hear almost immediately that the internet is blowing up because Bunker has called Ortega and Ortega has posted it on his blog. One person is showing me some of the tamer comments about me. Then Arnie Lerma asks to talk to me about what happened. One thing I will say about Arnie is that he listens. After I explained myself he said that he now understood why I did it, but he wasn't sure if it needed to be done. Then I got a phone call (yes, a PHONE CALL) during the conference from someone wanting to discuss why I'd thrown out Bunker. I told the person I could not talk right now.

Everyone at the conference knows what happened and about 2/3's are not happy with me.

I know that Mark Bunker doesn't care for me. I don't care for him either. But I would never do what he did tonight. I had hoped that Mr. Bunker would have been a gentleman and not put me in the position of having to remove him from the premises to protect everyone at the venue from that stupid injunction, but I was wrong. And he did it just minutes before I was supposed to introduce Pete. That's right. I was supposed to greet everyone and then introduce Pete. I was so upset with everything going on that I chose not to do that. I am sure that will make Bunker and all the Bunkerites gleeful knowing that they caused me so much upset that I couldn't even do a 90 second intro to welcome people to a conference that I have worked full-time on for months. A conference that I have spent hundreds of dollars of my own money to make happen.

I am sick, exhausted, and overworked. I'm also not sure why I'm such a horrible person for protecting myself and other people with being served with an injunction that requires you to hire an attorney to fight.

Now I'm listening to Amarillo By Morning by George Strait. I'm going to lie down and cry myself to sleep.

One more thing---I love you guys. Thank you for the support and for posting the words of encouragement from the other sites. <3 why we protest is the best.
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP

Yawn. One thing Laura is very good at.. playing the sympathy card & explaining away her behavior..not being accountable for it. First, as it has been repeated multiple times on several boards & blogs, the injunction applies to protesting only & the "guilt by association" with individuals named in the injunction is not binding.

I had the same problem several years ago when some anons & myself went to Gold Base to protest. A sheriff's deputy intervened & said he'd arrest me for violating a permanent injunction placed on Keith Henson following a protest he appeared at in Clearwater. The deputy got his info from OSA Legal & after that event, many critics raised Holy Hell with the sheriff's department & the district attorney & my attorney threatened to sue the Sheriff's Department. It resulted in an apology from the Riverside County Sheriff who admitted they fucked up taking Scibats at their word. After that, I protested at Gold Base multiple times without incident.

The info OSA Legal gave to the deputy contained a photo of Keith Henson with a protest sign in front of the Ft. Harrison. In the photo behind Keith, approx 20 feet, you could see me holding a camera (I was working for OSA at the time).

The fact that Laura claims "Bunker & the Bunkerites" are blaming her is clear evidence she doesn't have the guts or integrity she exercised bad judgement. If anyone recalls, her friend Darth Xander (an attorney) posted on WWP that he had met with Clearwater Police officials before the event & they assured him that no critic would be arrested for being "an associate" of anyone listed on the injunction.

The facts speak for themselves. Laura Flynn doesn't like Mark Bunker, she has posted as much on WWP multiple times & she, personally, saw to it that he & Tom was banned from the event. Her attempts to explain it away shows her true colors.
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
Tom Smith posted on WWP tonight what happened:

"I go to sit down at the entrance table and I see Tom Smith outside. I no longer speak to Tom Smith and that is my right. I have not had a conversation with Tom Smith in quite a few months so if he is telling people that he spoke with me about a month ago that is not true."

* I believe that I told Tony O a couple months. In our last conversation you wanted me to speak at the conference. I brought up Mark Bunker and asked for an explanation of why you did not want him there. You mentioned the injunction which I pointed out did not apply. You said that you did not like him anyway. I protested that and you hung up on me.


"Tom Smith did tell Darth Xander that he would not be attending Flag Down because I was going to be there."

* I told him that it appeared to me that AMA had disconnected from me and I likely was not welcome there. Xander encouraged me to attend anyway.


"I go outside to ask the police officer to ask Tom Smith to leave and I come face-to-face with Mark Bunker who is surrounded by quite a few people. I immediately went to the police officer that I hired and asked him to please ask these two men to leave."

* That was a Sheriff's deputy and he initially ordered, not asked, Mark to leave, Then, he ordered, not asked, me to leave, based on your instructions to him.


"The officer was cordial, but did have to finally insist that they both leave because both of them starting bantering loudly back-and-forth about how they were being kicked out. They were just blithering and not moving so the officer told them they needed to leave now."

* I think we have some video footage of that which Mark will post. I asked you for a reason why you wanted me to leave and you refused to provide any. I addressed you and the deputy directly at that time, not Mark. No bantering or blithering occurred. I hope that those who participate in Flag Down will come away with a greater understanding of what is going on in scientology.

In the 28 years I was involved, I witnessed many abuses where they acted out of their prejudices and emotions, but at no time did they use law enforcement to tell me to go away. AMA, perhaps you should step aside and let Peter take charge of the conference for the remainder.
 

i'mglib

Patron with Honors
Yawn. One thing Laura is very good at.. playing the sympathy card & explaining away her behavior..not being accountable for it. First, as it has been repeated multiple times on several boards & blogs, the injunction applies to protesting only & the "guilt by association" with individuals named in the injunction is not binding.

I had the same problem several years ago when some anons & myself went to Gold Base to protest. A sheriff's deputy intervened & said he'd arrest me for violating a permanent injunction placed on Keith Henson following a protest he appeared at in Clearwater. The deputy got his info from OSA Legal & after that event, many critics raised Holy Hell with the sheriff's department & the district attorney & my attorney threatened to sue the Sheriff's Department. It resulted in an apology from the Riverside County Sheriff who admitted they fucked up taking Scibats at their word. After that, I protested at Gold Base multiple times without incident.

The info OSA Legal gave to the deputy contained a photo of Keith Henson with a protest sign in front of the Ft. Harrison. In the photo behind Keith, approx 20 feet, you could see me holding a camera (I was working for OSA at the time).

The fact that Laura claims "Bunker & the Bunkerites" are blaming her is clear evidence she doesn't have the guts or integrity she exercised bad judgement. If anyone recalls, her friend Darth Xander (an attorney) posted on WWP that he had met with Clearwater Police officials before the event & they assured him that no critic would be arrested for being "an associate" of anyone listed on the injunction.

The facts speak for themselves. Laura Flynn doesn't like Mark Bunker, she has posted as much on WWP multiple times & she, personally, saw to it that he & Tom was banned from the event. Her attempts to explain it away shows her true colors.


Smurf, I couldn't agree more. She just doesn't like him, among others (like myself). My guess is she probably doesn't like you, either. I seem to recall she pretty much doesn't like anyone near LA.

I remember when you got that warning going to Gold, and I also called the sheriff about it. I was told there was no truth to the idea that you or anyone else was barred from protesting at Gold. That's how you do it. They throw something at you, and you bat it down. They will always throw something, and if we all just ran with it then no one would ever protest Scientology anywhere.

Ironically a pamphlet about Anonymous produced by the church was used against protesters at Gold, and an ordinance was passed by the Riverside Board of Supervisors attempting to limit protesting because of it. Rather than turning on Anonymous, we turned on the church and the Board of Supervisors. Many of us appeared at board meetings and spoke about the stupidity of the pamphlet and of the ordinance. Mark Bunker spoke as well. Eventually the ordinance was modified, and protests are not hindered now in any way.
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
Smurf, I couldn't agree more. She just doesn't like him, among others (like myself). My guess is she probably doesn't like you, either. I seem to recall she pretty much doesn't like anyone near LA.

LOL. She said I wasn't invited to Flag Down. Not that I would have went... saving my change for my Hawaiian va-kay in July. :biggrin:
 

Freeminds

Bitter defrocked apostate
May I lob in my un-asked-for two cents' worth?

I feel like it's 2008 again. Exciting... and challenging. Not everything is going to plan. Also, we've gone back to 2008 in that Scientology cult dirty tricks and lawyer tech appear to be something to be feared again.

It makes me think about why Anonymous fucked up Scientology so much: suddenly, their process servers and cease and desist letters wouldn't find their mark. Their intimidation tactics and the threat of disconnection faltered in the face of a sea of masks. We should learn a lot from the mask, but also from the concept of anonymity. Who does Scientology go after? Named individuals... and it flounders comically when it tries to cope with the amorphous. Clams hate a mystery.

Now, of course Scientology is greatly diminished from what it once was, and so it seemed timely to give the teetering husk a good hard shove... but Flagdown means playing by 'their' rules: names, dates, places. What resources OSA has left are bound to be concentrated on such an identifiable target. It'll be 2pm Thursday before you know it: they're desperate and they need to get a few licks in, before Midget Davey gets in a few on them.

We're in danger of forgetting the lessons that were learned in 2008: use the Internet to the full. If Mark Bunker was likely to stir up a legal shitstorm by going to Clearwater, why wasn't he invited to address the audience via videolink, or in a prerecorded statement? To show up and then get excluded was most unwise. (It should still be possible to schedule in a link-up with him, though.) If his exclusion comes about in part as a result of personality issues between different factions in the anti-Scientology community, that's just plain dumb. Minton-gate all over again?

Adapt. Change. Be amorphous: because Hubbard-tards can't be. Also, never forget to laugh it off. On their most successful, most upstat days, your opponents in Clearwater are still fucking miserable. They're still losing the fight: and they know it, although they daren't speak about it. Private investigators and lawyers will take the Asthmatic Dwarf's thirty pieces of silver... of course. But who cares? They don't believe. Nobody does!

Now, it's called Flagdown 2014, and there's a clue in that '2014' part: there will be more, in years to come. You don't have to get it right first time; all you have to do is learn, adapt, and keep on swinging. Anybody who regrets the low production values of this year's Flagdown should remember that Hubbard's cult started from beginnings so humble it had to be published in a science fiction magazine... yet it grew to be a billion-dollar crime syndicate. Sure, I would have liked a technical rehearsal and sound check at Flagdown... but the important thing is that this is happening. Ten years ago, it would have been unthinkable. Another Anonymous axiom: do something. Any action is better than all the talk in the world. Maybe later, we can do something more spectacular, but here we are in May 2014 and something is being done about Scientology's abuses.

The end of this weird UFO cult won't come about in Clearwater alone, though. Flagdown is a significant point on the curve that plots the downward trajectory of Hubbardism, but I'm actually more pleased about the widespread closure of orgs and missions, plus the significant reduction in the footprint of the Narconon scam. The 'Church' of Scientology is going spectacularly tits-up whether you or I get sued or not: stay safe.
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
That's all & well, Freeminds, but the fact remains that a number of critics & ex-Scios wanted to go to Flag Down, donated $$ to the fundraising of the event, but one individual in Clearwater who believed this was her event, told a number of people they were not invited.

This type of divisive, bad behavior helps Scientology one hell of alot more than how critics have chosen to respond to this woman's behavior. She even admitted that 2/3 of the attendees at Flag Down are unhappy with her.

It's been suggested to her that she allow Pete Griffiths to coordinate the rest of the event. I would agree with that. Cooler heads prevail.
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
May I lob in my un-asked-for two cents' worth?

I feel like it's 2008 again. Exciting... and challenging. Not everything is going to plan. Also, we've gone back to 2008 in that Scientology cult dirty tricks and lawyer tech appear to be something to be feared again.

It makes me think about why Anonymous fucked up Scientology so much: suddenly, their process servers and cease and desist letters wouldn't find their mark. Their intimidation tactics and the threat of disconnection faltered in the face of a sea of masks. We should learn a lot from the mask, but also from the concept of anonymity. Who does Scientology go after? Named individuals... and it flounders comically when it tries to cope with the amorphous. Clams hate a mystery.

Now, of course Scientology is greatly diminished from what it once was, and so it seemed timely to give the teetering husk a good hard shove... but Flagdown means playing by 'their' rules: names, dates, places. What resources OSA has left are bound to be concentrated on such an identifiable target. It'll be 2pm Thursday before you know it: they're desperate and they need to get a few licks in, before Midget Davey gets in a few on them.

We're in danger of forgetting the lessons that were learned in 2008: use the Internet to the full. If Mark Bunker was likely to stir up a legal shitstorm by going to Clearwater, why wasn't he invited to address the audience via videolink, or in a prerecorded statement? To show up and then get excluded was most unwise. (It should still be possible to schedule in a link-up with him, though.) If his exclusion comes about in part as a result of personality issues between different factions in the anti-Scientology community, that's just plain dumb. Minton-gate all over again?

Adapt. Change. Be amorphous: because Hubbard-tards can't be. Also, never forget to laugh it off. On their most successful, most upstat days, your opponents in Clearwater are still fucking miserable. They're still losing the fight: and they know it, although they daren't speak about it. Private investigators and lawyers will take the Asthmatic Dwarf's thirty pieces of silver... of course. But who cares? They don't believe. Nobody does!

Now, it's called Flagdown 2014, and there's a clue in that '2014' part: there will be more, in years to come. You don't have to get it right first time; all you have to do is learn, adapt, and keep on swinging. Anybody who regrets the low production values of this year's Flagdown should remember that Hubbard's cult started from beginnings so humble it had to be published in a science fiction magazine... yet it grew to be a billion-dollar crime syndicate. Sure, I would have liked a technical rehearsal and sound check at Flagdown... but the important thing is that this is happening. Ten years ago, it would have been unthinkable. Another Anonymous axiom: do something. Any action is better than all the talk in the world. Maybe later, we can do something more spectacular, but here we are in May 2014 and something is being done about Scientology's abuses.

The end of this weird UFO cult won't come about in Clearwater alone, though. Flagdown is a significant point on the curve that plots the downward trajectory of Hubbardism, but I'm actually more pleased about the widespread closure of orgs and missions, plus the significant reduction in the footprint of the Narconon scam. The 'Church' of Scientology is going spectacularly tits-up whether you or I get sued or not: stay safe.

:clap::clap::clap:

Ya know it did feel a lot like "2008" for me today. There was hope and a healthy defiance and I was laughing cos the sound was a bit dodgy but it was real and meaningful - unlike what happens in the cult where it is all glitzy and fake and everyone is all uptight (with plastic smiles) striving for impossible rainbow-chasing perfection.

So the podium was a bit too high and the pot plants either side of it a bit too big and distracting from the speaker and all I could do was smile and think stuff like "it's the big picture that counts, not the glitz. Look at these fine fine people who have the courage to stand up there and speak out against the bullying cult. Bravo!!"

I love this conference. It is defiantly, boldly, courageously telling the cult:

We have a voice! We are not afraid! We have freedom of speech, freedom to change our minds, and freedom to live our lives, our way! You can take your bullying shitty ways and shove them!

The big picture ya know. :)

Throw some joy in the air and feel it in your bones. Each of us has done something extraordinary, each in our own way. Grab that wonder and dance with it. And no I ain't kidding. I was a mental prisoner for two decades. Dance for the freedom people like me now have. And the thousands of others who got out of this insidious cruel soul-crushing system.

This conference ain't meant to be perfect with super-sonic this and sleek that. It about heart and soul and the big picture.

Right climbing off my soap-box of celebrating freedom now...:wink2:
 

Freeminds

Bitter defrocked apostate
That's all & well, Freeminds, but the fact remains that a number of critics & ex-Scios wanted to go to Flag Down, donated $$ to the fundraising of the event, but one individual in Clearwater who believed this was her event, told a number of people they were not invited.

This type of divisive, bad behavior helps Scientology one hell of alot more than how critics have chosen to respond to this woman's behavior. She even admitted that 2/3 of the attendees at Flag Down are unhappy with her.

It's been suggested to her that she allow Pete Griffiths to coordinate the rest of the event. I would agree with that. Cooler heads prevail.

Aye, Smurf: good call. Years ago, anonymous would have called that "leaderfagging", and would have had none of it. Perhaps this individual could learn a lot about getting a job done, rather than defending one's own personal brand. To my mind, garnering social capital and/or defending oneself is far less important than freeing Scientology's remaining victims. Seeing Miscavige in jail would be nice, too.
 
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