Flagdown 2014: media coverage, etc

[TG1]

The trouble with volunteer organizations is that you only have access to the skills and contributions of those people who are willing to work.

Personally, I think that amaX, although very willing to work hard on tactical issues (and God bless her for it!), does not have the public-facing, promotional or political skills one needs to navigate the volatility and personalities inherent in these kinds of events.

But then again, no one else volunteered.

When this thing is over, there will be an opportunity for those who were involved in Flag Down -- and everyone else who ever considers putting on a conference similar to this -- to debrief and learn from this experience.

In the meantime, I would urge everyone to remember to please be grateful for the gifts and contributions that WERE volunteered.

TG1

 

[failboat]

If I were planning the event and was concerned about the LMT issue, yes, of course.

Also, you don't really support an idea that includes taking donations from people who will be later told they are barred from the event, do you? I don't think Laura is going to brush this off so easily.

I feel bad for Pete, I don't think he saw all this coming at all.

You'll just have to disagree with her decision then. I support the idea of seeing anti-Scientology conferences in the state of Florida, and I support the people who are willing to put them on, and I support their decisions. I support the idea that AMA, a retiree, should be able to host and organize an event near where she lives.

It's very unfortunate that people who donated and wanted to attend could not be allowed to attend, but the LMT injunction is an unfortunate court order. A better job could probably have been done to communicate the issues of the LMT injunction to communities outside of WWP, but WWP is where the planners and organizers of this conference reside. Those who cared about WBM's attendance could have become informed of these issues 6 months ago had they been willing to visit and read up on Flag Down at WWP.

CommunicatorIC also said it better than me when he said this:

Yes, the event was generally open to the public. That doesn't mean the event organizers can't exclude certain persons. For example, the event organizer's could exclude OSA agents, PIs, etc.

 

[CommunicatorIC]

Yes, Tory/Magoo Your post #220 above is spot on, but more important is the point that the "permanent injunction" specifies very explicitly geographic locations and addresses that the injunction is limited to and having affect on.

It has no force anywhere else . . . .

Ummm, that should not be to hard to understand, even for the willfully "blind."

[NOTE: For those who read my analysis above, please forgive me for repeating it here. I think it is necessary to do so because it appears some people missed it. I'm assuming some people missed it because they have not addressed it on the merits.]

Roger, with respect, you argument and analysis misses the point. That was and is not Laura's concern with regard to the injunction and Mark Bunker's attendance at the conference. Laura's was not concerned that the injunction would somehow be violated by Mark Bunker attendance at the conference. Laura was instead concerned about what effect Mark Bunker's attendance at the conference might have on the ability of other conference attendees to later picket the COS in Clearwater in injunction covered areas (i.e., in zones designated by the injunction) and injunction covered ways (e.g., within 10 feet of a Scientologist) without being subjected to legal harassment by the COS.

The Permanent Injunction provides in relevant part:

IT IS HEREBY ORDERED AND ADJUDGED that:

1. A permanent injunction is entered against the defendants, Robert S. Minton, Jr., Lisa McPherson Trust, Inc,, Jesse Prince, Grady Ward, Stacy Brooks, Jeff Jacobson, Patricia Greenway, Peter Alexander, Mark Bunker and Tory Bezazian, their members, officers, agents, servants, employees and those persons and entities in actual concert or participation with them who receive actual notice of this injunction, enjoining them from picketing, protesting, and/or demonstrating in the areas designated in BLUE (the "prohibited zones") (picketing, protesting, and/or demonstrating is ALLOWED in areas designated in ORANGE) on the diagrams of certain properties owned and/or operated by the Church (see Composite Exhibit A?1 attached hereto and incorporated into this Order), and from engaging in any of the aforementioned activities within ten feet of any entrance or exit actually used frequently on a daily basis to all Church property listed on Exhibit B and not expressly included in the prohibited zones designated in Exhibit A? I .

2. The foregoing paragraph prohibits picketing, protesting and/or demonstrating in areas designated in BLUE (see Exhibit A?1) ac well as in areas within ten feet of any entrance or exit actually used frequently on a daily basis to Church property that is not expressly included in the prohibited zones designated in BLUE (see Exhibit B). As to all other areas in Pinellas County, Florida, the named defendants, and their officers, agents, servants, employees and those persons and entities in actual conccrt or participation with them, are free to engage in lawful picketing, lawful protesting and lawful demonstrating. "Lawful" picketing means "not contrary to or forbidden by law", provided that at all times while picketing, all persons bound by this injunction shall comply with the anti?noise provisions of this injunction.

3. The defendants, Robert S. Minton, Jr., Lisa McPherson Trust, Inc., Jesse Prince, Grady Ward, Stacy Brooks, Jeff Jacobson, Patricia Greenway, Peter Alexander, Mark Bunker and Tory Bezazian, their officers, agents, servants, employees and those persons and entities in actual concert or participation with them who receive actual notice of this injunction are permanently enjoined: (1) from coming within ten (10) feet of any member of the Church; (2) from blocking the path of any member or any motor vehicle of the Church; and (3) from physically or by any other means inhibiting any Church member, any member of the general public, or any motor vehicle, from entering or leaving any Church properties that are listed in the schedule of properties that is Exhibit B to this order.

4. Notwithstanding the foregoing, it shall not be a violation of this permanent injunction for any person otherwise engaged in lawful conduct to move without interruption through a prohibited zone en route from one non?prohibited zone to another non?prohibited zone, so long as that person keeps any pickets or other signs held below the waist and upside down or otherwise covered or obscured or held horizontally in such a way that the writing on the pickets or other signs is not obviously displayed, and so long as the person complies with the prohibition on excessive noise making set forth in paragraph S below. This provision applies to all persons and entities who are subject to the terms of this injunction.

5. The defendants, Robert S. Minton, Jr., Lisa McPherson Trust, Inc., Jesse Prince, Grady Ward, Stacy Brooks, Jeff Jacobson, Patricia Greenway, Peter Alexander, Mark Bunker and Tory Bezazian, their officers, agents, servants, employees and those persons and entities in actual concert or participation with them who receive actual notice of this injunction, are permanently enjoined from making any loud and raucous noise such as, but not limited to yelling, shouting, whistling or singing (whether by natural or amplified voice), or by the employment of any mechanical device such as a horn, whistle, or other noisemaker that creates a loud and raucous noise that can be heard inside any of the Church properties that are listed in the schedule of properties that is Exhibit B to this order. A "loud and raucous noise" is any sound which because of its volume level, duration, and character, annoys, disturbs, injures or endangers the comfort, health, peace or safety of reasonable persons of ordinary sensibilities.

6. The defendants, Robert S. Minton, Jr., Lisa McPherson Trust, Inc., Jesse Prince, Grady Ward, Stacy Brooks, Jeff Jacobson, Patricia Greenway, Peter Alexander, Mark Bunker and Tory Bezazian, their officers, agents, servants, employees and those persons and entities in actual concert or participation with them who receive actual notice of this injunction, are permanently enjoined from entering upon any of the Church properties that are listed in the schedule of properties that is Exhibit B to this order.

7. The defendants, Robert S. Minton, Jr., Lisa McPherson Trust, Inc., Jesse Prince, Grady Ward, Stacy Brooks, Jeff Jacobson, Patricia Greenway, Peter Alexander, Mark Bunker and Tory Bezazian, their officers, agents, servants, employees and those persons and entities in actual concert or participation with them who receive actual notice of this injunction, are permanently enjoined from committing any acts of harassment or violence against any member of the Church, including, without limitation, any UNSOLICITED physical, verbal or written contact with any Church staff or parishioner. Videotaping from a distance of more than 10 feet shall not be considered harassment.

Laura's concern was and is that if she allowed Mark Bunker to attend the conference, and she or another person who had attended the conference later picketed in a area or in a way subject to the injunction, the COS would later asset in Court that Mark Bunker's permitted attendance at the conference showed that she or the other person who had attended the conference and later picketed was acting "in actual concert or participation" with Mark Bunker, and thus: (a) subject to the permanent injunction; (b) in violation of the permanent injunction; and (c) should be held in Contempt of Court

People here might think that concern is unreasonable. Then again, they aren't the one's who would be hauled into Court, have to litigate against the COS, face the risk of incurring substantial attorney's fees, and face a contempt citation. It wouldn't be Mark Bunker, or anyone here, who would be hauled into Court, forced to litigate against the COS, forced to incur substantial attorney's fees, or risk being held in contempt of Court.

I also don't see Mark Bunker, or anyone here, offering to pay Laura's attorney's fees in the above scenario, much less show they have the financial resources to do so.

Anyone who doesn't think the COS would try to use the Permanent Injunction as described above doesn't know what they are talking about.

The sad truth is that Mark Bunker and the other people named in the Permanent Injunction are radioactive to anyone who intends to picket in Clearwater in a zone or way subject to the injunction.

To anticipate one possible response, the fact that Mark Bunker received assurances from the police is meaningless for two separate reasons. First, those assurances did not address the above scenario and concerns. Secondly, the police do not have the last word in this matter. Even if the police refuse to enforce an injunction because they believe the it is inapplicable and/or the conduct at issue is not in violation thereof, the COS can always independently serve someone with a Order to Show Cause that they are not in contempt of a court order (i.e., the injunction) and haul them into court. The final decision on whether someone is subject to the injunction and violated is not up to the police, but the Court.

Yes, the event was generally open to the public. That doesn't mean the event organizers can't exclude certain persons. For example, the event organizer's could exclude OSA agents, PIs, etc.

EDITED TO ADD:

I see that people repeated my above argument after Roger posted and after I responded to his post, but before I saw their repetition (if that makes sense). I'm not trying to be additionally repetitive, but will leave this here as my response to Roger.

 

[Anonycat]

You'll just have to disagree with her decision then. I support the idea of seeing anti-Scientology conferences in the state of Florida, and I support the people who are willing to put them on, and I support their decisions. I support the idea that AMA, a retiree, should be able to host and organize an event near where she lives.

It's very unfortunate that people who donated and wanted to attend could not be allowed to attend, but the LMT injunction is an unfortunate court order. A better job could probably have been done to communicate the issues of the LMT injunction to communities outside of WWP, but WWP is where the planners and organizers of this conference reside. Those who cared about WBM's attendance could have become informed of these issues 6 months ago had they been willing to visit and read up on Flag Down at WWP.

CommunicatorIC also said it better than me when he said this:

Okay, as an event creator, I disagree with using a problem venue. That's true.

No one knew that the planning was anywhere but at Facebook, except for you and I don't know who else. The Facebook page is here: https://www.facebook.com/events/322669541207647/ and has no instructions to get the real facts elsewhere. I think that the rest of the world also thought that it was Pete's event, until the Leader of Florida Anonymous article came out.

So, yes - bad venue choice and bad grudge. Then compartmentalization at a forum with no information at the public outlet, the Facebook page. Six months of neglecting to spread the word - whatever that may have been - from WWP.

Having done events larger than this, it's easy for me to get a clear picture of it, and I do understand all of the aspects.

 

[CommunicatorIC]

No one knew that the planning was anywhere but at Facebook, except for you and I don't know who else.

With respect, I don't see how that is possible. The very first post on the ESMB Flag Down thread is a cross-post from the WWP thread on Flag Down. I know I regularly cross-posted material from WWP to the ESMB thread. I may not have cross-posted everything, but the existence of the WWP Flag Down thread was certainly publicized here.

 

[failboat]

With respect, I don't see how that is possible. The very first post on the ESMB Flag Down thread is a cross-post from the WWP thread on Flag Down. I know I regularly cross-posted material from WWP to the ESMB thread. I may not have cross-posted everything, but the existence of the WWP Flag Down thread was certainly publicized here.

CommunicatorIC, thank you for having a level head and devoting your time to amazing posts and great fact-checking.

I am grateful that you've been so active on WWP in the last year and I hope you continue to help keep narratives straight.

People should note that both the original WWP Flag Down thread and the ESMB Flag Down thread linked above by CiC date to November 5, 2013, while the Facebook page indicated by Anonycat has an earliest post that dates to November 14, 2013 - 9 days later.

Here is an announcement in the original WWP Flag Down Thread, from November 10, 2013, announcing that the venue was secured.

https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/flag-down-2014-may-5th-10th.114743/page-4#post-2382439

the venue is secured.
we have the place we wanted. we are happy and joyful today.​

amaX, Nov 10, 2013

Planning was occurring in that thread before the first post on the Facebook event page.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

. . .
Sorry, I'm late to the show (and thread) . . . well, maybe not so sorry after all.

If I can interject a Q here . . . will clear audios or youtube videos
of the main speakers be available one day?

I was way too busy to check out the streams.

 

[Anonycat]

With respect, I don't see how that is possible. The very first post on the ESMB Flag Down thread is a cross-post from the WWP thread on Flag Down. I know I regularly cross-posted material from WWP to the ESMB thread. I may not have cross-posted everything, but the existence of the WWP Flag Down thread was certainly publicized here.

I will gladly explain how. Here's the post you sent me to:

Cross-posted from WWP:

https://whyweprotest.net/community/t.../#post-2379324

FLAG DOWN 2014

FLAG DOWN 2014 is a five-day conference in Clearwater, Florida, USA in May 2014 where ex-members and critics will expose the fraud and abuse of the Scientology cult. Details about the exact dates will be announced later.

This is a joint enterprise between Irish, Clearwater, and many other critics.

We are raising funds to host this conference in Clearwater to expose the abuses and fraud of the Scientology cult in their mecca.

We are trying to raise $25,000.00 in total to pay for transport, venue, accomodations, technical, and promotional items.

LINK TO FUNDING PAGE: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/fl...how_todos=true

Contributors will be rewarded with buttons, t-shirts, flags, books, and other memorabilia.
There will be 5 consecutive conference days followed by a weekend of protests.
The entire event will be live streamed and made available on video for eternity.
A press pack will be produced and made available to attendees.
If we do not make our target, funds will either be returned or retained as we reset our goals.

MORE INFO HERE AT LINK TO FUNDING PAGE: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/fl...how_todos=true

This is the event many people have been wanting for a long time.

This is the time for an event of this magnitude in Clearwater.

We invite you to join us in Clearwater when we say:
WE RUN THIS.

Scheduled Speakers*

John Duignan

Nancy Many

Victoria Britton

Hana Eltringham Whitfield

Mark Plummer




*Speaker's names will continue to be added when they confirm.

Now what about that post makes me think I need to get information elsewhere? You said the above was cross-posted. So I read it here. Did you mean to say something important like: everyone needs to keep up on the WWP thread? No, you posted the above, and it looks like it was meant to stand alone as a bit of information. So in 6 months, it was never revealed on the official event page or here. And that's the problem of whoever didn't keep up at the WWP thread. Not very clever logic. That post asks people to go to the donation page.

 

[bromo]

I was unaware of it. I saw the posts here by Pete, the Facebook page and the videos that were done by Chris, iirc. I, too, thought that this was Pete's event. Granted that I do not read all of the posts here everyday and missed some links. I would think there were others like me. I also read at the bunker, although not all the comments everyday. I did not know of or see a link to the WWP threads there either. I did, however, share info about the event with other never ins who know little about the cos. I thought it would be a sort of one stop shopping place, if you will, for them to hear some great speakers talk about different aspects of the cult with a couple of mouseclicks. I do hope that someone is able to " clean up" the audio so that they will be able to hear and learn and become supporters along side you as well. I just think it is important that critics have the support of more and more never ins to help the movement succeed. Hiding, or at least not being completely open, all pertinent information about what people are being asked to support is not starting off on the right foot from the beginning. Admit and learn from mistakes and move on. I hope that there will be more of these, with more publicity until they are no longer needed as the doors are closed on the cult for the last time. And that cliques and starring roles are not a part of them in the future.

 

[Anonycat]

. . .
Sorry, I'm late to the show (and thread) . . . well, maybe not so sorry after all.

If I can interject a Q here . . . will clear audios or youtube videos
of the main speakers be available one day?

I was way too busy to check out the streams.

Yes. The audio problem was only present on the first day, and the stream last evening sounded fine. YT videos coming too.

 

[Purple Rain]

We invite you to join us in Clearwater when we say:
WE RUN THIS.

Lol! Er, no. The cult obviously runs Clearwater. And Largo. And Florida.

 

[Purple Rain]

So are you telling me that anytime I am seen with Tory in Florida that I can never protest Scientology at Clearwater ever again, or just if I am seen with her ever? You all, who know how far these ramifications stretch. Do tell.

What if I disconnect from her? Will it be safe for me to protest then? Or just once seen associating, always slimed by this "toxic radiation"?

 

[RogerB]

failboat, you and your cohorts with your interpretation of what the injunction states are way off. And as far as I can see are only indulging in justifying a screw up . . . but certainly you fellas are singing the CofS song on their behalf in scaring up a big bugaboo that the injunction could/might be used against folks organizing a public conference outside of the limits defined in the order.

This I have copied form post #165 on this thread . . .

1. A permanent injunction is entered against the defendants, Robert S.

Minton, Jr., Lisa McPherson Trust, Inc,, Jesse Prince, Grady Ward, Stacy Brooks, Jeff Jacobson, Patricia Greenway, Peter Alexander, Mark Bunker and Tory Bezazian, their members, officers, agents, servants, employees and those persons and entities in actual concert or participation with them who receive actual notice of this injunction, enjoining them from picketing, protesting, and/or demonstrating in the areas designated in BLUE (the "prohibited zones") (picketing, protesting, and/or demonstrating is ALLOWED in areas designated in ORANGE) on the diagrams of certain properties owned and/or operated by the Church (see Composite Exhibit A?1 attached hereto and incorporated into this Order), and from engaging in any of the aforementioned activities within ten feet of any entrance or exit actually used frequently on a daily basis to all Church property listed on Exhibit B and not expressly included in the prohibited zones designated in Exhibit A? I .

2. The foregoing paragraph prohibits picketing, protesting and/or demonstrating in areas designated in BLUE (see Exhibit A?1) ac well as in areas within ten feet of any entrance or exit actually used frequently on a daily basis to Church property that is not expressly included in the prohibited zones designated in BLUE (see Exhibit B). As to all other areas in Pinellas County, Florida, the named defendants, and their officers, agents, servants, employees and those persons and entities in actual concert or participation with them, are free to engage in lawful picketing, lawful protesting and lawful demonstrating. "Lawful" picketing means "not contrary to or forbidden by law", provided that at all times while picketing, all persons bound by this injunction shall comply with the anti?noise provisions of this injunction.

3. The defendants, Robert S. Minton, Jr., Lisa McPherson Trust, Inc., Jesse Prince, Grady Ward, Stacy Brooks, Jeff Jacobson, Patricia Greenway, Peter Alexander, Mark Bunker and Tory Bezazian, their officers, agents, servants, employees and those persons and entities in actual concert or participation with them who receive actual notice of this injunction are permanently enjoined: (1) from coming within ten (10) feet of any member of the Church; (2) from blocking the path of any member or any motor vehicle of the Church; and (3) from physically or by any other means inhibiting any Church member, any member of the general public, or any motor vehicle, from entering or leaving any Church properties that are listed in the schedule of properties that is Exhibit B to this order.

8. A permanent injunction is entered against the Church and its officers, agents, employees and those persons and entities in actual concert or participation with it who receive actual notice of this injunction enjoining them from picketing, protesting, and/or demonstrating in the areas designated in BLUE on the diagram of the Lisa McPherson Trust, Inc. property. (See Exhibit A?2 attached hereto and incorporated into this order.)

15. Before a Party engages in any acts of Picketing, protesting, and/or demonstrating in designated ORANGE areas within the City of Clearwater against the other party, the Party intending to picket, protest, and/or demonstrate will contact the Clearwater Police Department at least one hour in advance of the demonstration event and inform the Clearwater Police Department of their/its intentions.

19. This injunction is valid and enforceable in all counties of the State of Florida.

Note the part in Red . . . it specifically defines the geographic limits to which the restriction of actions/protests are enjoined.

Noted the part in Blue . . . it specifically states that the individuals named MAY, repeat MAY engage in whatever ordinarily lawful activities they choose in all other areas in Pinellas County, Florida.

Note in Green the CofS is also enjoined and prevented from the named actions in similar limited geographic locations.

As to item:
19. This injunction is valid and enforceable in all counties of the State of Florida.

Don't misconstrue or misrepresent what that means . . . it is simply stating that, should the enjoined actions be committed in the defined, limited geographic locations (i. e., at the Cof$ properties in Clearwater or Lisa McPherson Trust, Inc. property) then subsequent Court action and service of summons is valid and enforceable anywhere in the state . . . not just in Pinellas County.

So, my recommendation is . . . knock off trumpeting the cult's "scary" boogaboo . . . that is, unless you want to do their work for them.

You guys went off half-cocked on the issue of the applicability and enforceability of this injunction relative to the public conference in the location it was planned . . . and note above in blue, the injunction itself says so!!!!

Apart from all that, I am tired of arguing with and trying to inform people who, to use your phrase: "don't get it."

For my part, the scare of the CofS taking action in this matter based on these facts I call a toothless wolf.

It's a shame you fellas didn't either analyze what the injunction actually says and allows or get some good legal opinion on the matter before empowering the cult's threat.

While the conference speakers will have done a wonderful job this time, I really begin to think that the conduct of this caper and the bad publicity created has damaged the credibility of those who in future might act to do similar events.

And please don't attempt the run the ruberic as has been run on others here who called the errors of this caper as they have been by asking me, "Have you ever created and run a conference?" . . . the answer is yes; three.

And as to the legal issues? Well I am no US attorney but as a retired member of the International Chiefs of Police Association . . . and having studied commercial law in Oz . . . errr, ummm, I do know how to read a Court document and apply such and am somewhat versed in the issues of civil liberties and those rights and violations of such.

For now, my recommendation is: stop singing the boogy-man song of the cult . . . you'll scare the children into thinking the cult will come and get them.

RogerB

 

[failboat]

RogerB

You're wrong because Shawn Lonsdale.

https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/flag-down-2014-derail-thread.114987/page-3#post-2392152

 

[Anonycat]

Mark Bunker makes a great post at the Underground Bunker:

Mark Bunker Glibby • 2 days ago

There are very few people sweeter than Glibby. And if the LMT injunction was the biggest concern then why was a member of the LMT advisory board invited to speak? Arnie is in the only video in which Judge Penick ruled Bob Minton had broken the injunction.

[video=youtube;pW64npe2_Xc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW64npe2_Xc[/video]

__________________________________________________ _______

[Mark was replying to Glibby, so here's the Glibby post:]

Glibby Mark Bunker • 2 days ago

Mark was booted because Laura doesn't like him. Eg: "I don't like him...Deep down Bunker is an asshole...etc" If 2/3 of the attendees were mad he was booted, that means that most attendees wanted him there, and didn't believe they were in any danger. It's just ludicrous that it was done because of the injunction.

She doesn't like me either, as well as many others, so I feel I am in good company. I objected to her user name having been used on OCMB to post porn and gore for a couple days straight (kittens being immolated anyone?) and my objections have landed me on the enemy list, too.

I know Mark fairly well, and he is definitely not an asshole. His video of the Fourth of July event at Big Blue was one of the things that made me become a critic. This event is not the first gathering of critics in Clearwater. There were many press conferences organized years ago, as well as some very tense pickets, with Scientologists behaving outrageously, which were filmed and posted on the internet by the man who got booted today.

There are some great speakers who are lined up, and some friends are there, and I donated to the cause. It just seems weird to host an event, and then hate on half the people who you would probably want to be there.

http://tonyortega.org/2014/05/05/fl...d-out-by-conference-organizer/comment-page-1/

 

[Anonycat]

As to item:
19. This injunction is valid and enforceable in all counties of the State of Florida.

Don't misconstrue or misrepresent what that means . . . it is simply stating that, should the enjoined actions be committed in the defined, limited geographic locations (i. e., at the Cof$ properties in Clearwater or Lisa McPherson Trust, Inc. property) then subsequent Court action and service of summons is valid and enforceable anywhere in the state . . . not just in Pinellas County.

Thank you.

 

[failboat]

Mark Bunker makes a great post at the Underground Bunker:

Arnie already spoke on this in post #70 of this thread.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...a-coverage-etc&p=931111&viewfull=1#post931111

I was never named on that injunction...

I was frivolously charged with violating it in 2001? was it? and found not guilty... during the Clearwater 13 trial..

Mr Bunker was named on that old injunction, and I spoke with the renter of the hall and determined that they do not dislike Mr Bunker. The renter of the hall , like Mr Bunker, dislikes that old injunction, and the 'color of law' it affords $cientology... They just did not have the 50 grand that Minton spent on our defense back then...laying around to fight with the psychopaths in court...if they had admitted him as the way that weasel worded bit of art is phrased is might be interpreted to cover all of pinellas county... and the Judge that signed it is now dead..



arnie lerma

 

[RogerB]

RogerB

You're wrong because Shawn Lonsdale.

https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/flag-down-2014-derail-thread.114987/page-3#post-2392152

Well again you are dragging this on with nonsense . . . that letter you cite explicitly refers to the geographic location of downtown Clearwater . . .

The key to ANY restraining order or injunction is the place(s) defined to which it applies . . . and you and your cohorts keep screwing that point up.

 

[failboat]

Well again you are dragging this on with nonsense . . . that letter you cite explicitly refers to the geographic location of downtown Clearwater . . .

The key to ANY restraining order or injunction is the place(s) defined to which it applies . . . and you and your cohorts keep screwing that point up.

You do it, then. You put your ass on the line first.

Let me paraphrase a challenge from Wolfbane over on WWP.

https://whyweprotest.net/community/...unction-discussion.118319/page-2#post-2451330

Here's a thought. Rather than cause drama, why not do something constructive!

AmaX's contention is that due to the overly broad language of the injunction, anybody who associates with a named party on the injunction can get jacked up if they try to protest the cult. Therefore, protesters need to avoid associating with everybody who is named on the damned thing to err on the side of caution and protect themselves.

Your contention seems to be that you think her point is invalid. [You seem to think] people who are planning to protest the cult in Clearwater can freely associate with people named on the injunction with no fear of repercussions.

So put your money where your mouth is. Make a protest sign and get Bunker to go [to] downtown [Clearwater] with you. Let him setup a camera across the street from a danger zone where he is safely outside the constraints of the injunction. Then you go marching through it with your protest sign until the cult sends out handlers to deal with you. Once confronted, you can openly declare on camera that you are acting as an agent of Bunker, and acknowledge that you are willing violating the terms of the LMT injunction as a known associate of a named party in order to prove that protesters have nothing to fear. Then dare the cult to do something about.

If the cult does nothing, then you effectively prove amaX is wrong and there is nothing for protesters to fear in regards to openly associating with someone on the injunction. WIN!

If they do act on it, then you and Bunker can fight it in court and establish the precedent that anyone who openly associates with someone on the injunction cannot have their ability to protest the cult compromised. That would give Bunker an awesome ending for his documentary and possibly open up an opportunity for him to file his own lolsuit and get the injunction squashed once and for all. WIN WIN! Possibly even triple play WIN!!

Or you can STFU and do nothing.

 

[RogerB]

Also, a thought just came to me while cooking my sweet Virginia's dinner . . .

Next time you guys undertake one of the wonderfully worthwhile capers I recommend this wonderful little stunt.

For the cost of a $ or two . . . you go back to the Court, any Court but ideally the one who issued that injunction and and apply to the Court for an injunction against the cult to prohibit it from violating the injunction or any OTHER action interfering with your activity and attendees including issuing spurious complaints and other harassing pseudo legal complaints and actions . . . you take this action because it is well known the cult engages in these malicious misuses of legal procedure to harass folks . . . you thus get the Court to interpret the meaning and application of that injunction! And you get the Court to issue an order on the Cult enforcing it . . .

Ummm, and all for the cost of a little time and a few $$ . . . the Clerks of the Courts are wonderfully helpful in this regard . . . they provide you with all kinds of documents and guidance . . . for free.

You don't need an attorney you do it yourself.