Greetings

[Whitedove]

Start looking at some of the materials on 'cult survival'. I hate that term, but what you are experiencing is NOT uncommon. And there IS hope, and help.

Thanks Clamicide. I know there is hope and help. Funny because I talked about the fact that I was a Scientologist to a psychiatrist and psychologist and somehow they didnt make the link between my anxiety and that.
It was like, ok, fine, you left and done with it.
They meant well just dont have a clue about the stigma of being in a cult like scientology I guess.
I will look into it. thanks again

 

[Tiger Lily]

Thanks Clamicide. I know there is hope and help. Funny because I talked about the fact that I was a Scientologist to a psychiatrist and psychologist and somehow they didnt make the link between my anxiety and that.
It was like, ok, fine, you left and done with it.
They meant well just dont have a clue about the stigma of being in a cult like scientology I guess.
I will look into it. thanks again

Whitedove, you definitely need to find someone who understands the cult experience. I don't think you can really understand just how deeply they get into your head until you've either been there or studied it.

There are some really great books out there though, and that would be a great start in the meantime.

This is a book written by a psychiatrist who specializes in cults. I am pretty sure the his first language is French and that he has books written in French as well. (If you go to the link, and click on the authors name, you see what else he has written). This guy has testified in trials against Scientology in France.

http://www.amazon.com/Soul-Snatcher...r_1_14?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246369268&sr=8-14

It came up on a search at Amazon for "Cults" "Anxiety", so maybe there's something there? :confused2: (I have not read it, but it looks like the guy knows his stuff).

Good luck!
-TL

 

[Whitedove]

Whitedove, you definitely need to find someone who understands the cult experience. I don't think you can really understand just how deeply they get into your head until you've either been there or studied it.

There are some really great books out there though, and that would be a great start in the meantime.

This is a book written by a psychiatrist who specializes in cults. I am pretty sure the his first language is French and that he has books written in French as well. (If you go to the link, and click on the authors name, you see what else he has written). This guy has testified in trials against Scientology in France.

http://www.amazon.com/Soul-Snatcher...r_1_14?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246369268&sr=8-14

It came up on a search at Amazon for "Cults" "Anxiety", so maybe there's something there? :confused2: (I have not read it, but it looks like the guy knows his stuff).

Good luck!
-TL

Thank you TL. You are a sweetheart

Oh, I've been there but havent study it really. Weired since my anxiety problem stems from my childhood but as I said scientology just made it worst. I guess the main thing for me is like this constant pressure I feel. Its hard to explain. You know the famous 'you pulled it in'? Well, I always wait for the other shoe to drop and it doesnt take me much to go into full blown anxiety attacks which really pisses me off. and its scary as hell.

Thank you for the link. I will definitely read it.

Ok, I have stolen Ben D spot. Sorry!

Love
Whitedove

 

[Whitedove]

Whitedove, you definitely need to find someone who understands the cult experience. I don't think you can really understand just how deeply they get into your head until you've either been there or studied it.

There are some really great books out there though, and that would be a great start in the meantime.

This is a book written by a psychiatrist who specializes in cults. I am pretty sure the his first language is French and that he has books written in French as well. (If you go to the link, and click on the authors name, you see what else he has written). This guy has testified in trials against Scientology in France.

http://www.amazon.com/Soul-Snatcher...r_1_14?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246369268&sr=8-14

It came up on a search at Amazon for "Cults" "Anxiety", so maybe there's something there? :confused2: (I have not read it, but it looks like the guy knows his stuff).

Good luck!
-TL

Tiger Lily just to let you know, there is a whole chapter about Scientology in the book its called 'proven methods, Scientology'.
- Recruitment
- Applying manipulation
- Neo-Language
- Guilt (that part I cant wait to read it)
- Scotomization ?? :confused2:
-Auditing
- The Technique
- Auditing with the Electrometer
- Solo Auditing (probably about the OT levels I presume)
- Purification Process
- The sauna
- Running
- vitamine overdosing

Oh dear Clamicide, you are so right! There is a chapter about individual pathologies which includes Generalized Anxiety and atypical anxiety disorders. Thats me to a T

BIG, HUGE THANK YOU to you both Clamicide and TL.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Anxious?

Something else on the subject of anxiety for you.
Recent research has shown that children born within a few years of war tend to be skinny anxious babies that grow up to be anxious adults. The trauma the mother and to some degree of the father effect the child. In the case of hollacaust survivors this weekens each generation, but is still noticeable after a couple of generations.

Doesnt bode well for the children of the SO members.

This came from a BBC radio prgram, woman's hour about a year ago.

 

[Whitedove]

Something else on the subject of anxiety for you.
Recent research has shown that children born within a few years of war tend to be skinny anxious babies that grow up to be anxious adults. The trauma the mother and to some degree of the father effect the child. In the case of hollacaust survivors this weekens each generation, but is still noticeable after a couple of generations.

Doesnt bode well for the children of the SO members.

This came from a BBC radio prgram, woman's hour about a year ago.

I'm not from the baby boomer era but my dad was an alcoholic. does that apply?

As for children of the SO, my oldest son was but thank god he is out.
But I see there is some stigma related to our scientology period mostly because of my behaviour which I regret immensely.
He still find ways to show me he loves me (the david cassidy tickets he got me + paying the airplane).
Guess I tried to make up for the emotional damage even though its really not easy to get through him regarding this.
I can only be there for him and show him I love him and care.

At least I woke up from it. I cant imagine the scientology children whose parents are still in and choosed their freakin cult over their own children!

 

[clamicide]

Thanks Clamicide. I know there is hope and help. Funny because I talked about the fact that I was a Scientologist to a psychiatrist and psychologist and somehow they didnt make the link between my anxiety and that.
It was like, ok, fine, you left and done with it.
They meant well just dont have a clue about the stigma of being in a cult like scientology I guess.
I will look into it. thanks again

It's completely worth it to search out folks who are familiar with cult stuff. Unfortunately, a lot of people coming out of cults have symptoms that mimic other psychiatric disorders, and practitioners try to go back and handle the childhood or mis-medicate when the main thing the person in front of them is dealing with is coming from their problems from being in the cult. I'm seriously looking at working at getting a degree, simply because there just aren't enough people familiar with this, and there are a lot of folks out there who could use some help.

 

[Whitedove]

It's completely worth it to search out folks who are familiar with cult stuff. Unfortunately, a lot of people coming out of cults have symptoms that mimic other psychiatric disorders, and practitioners try to go back and handle the childhood or mis-medicate when the main thing the person in front of them is dealing with is coming from their problems from being in the cult. I'm seriously looking at working at getting a degree, simply because there just aren't enough people familiar with this, and there are a lot of folks out there who could use some help.

That is great clamicide! There isnt enough resources out there for people exiting a cult. So many cults now. You are cool

One thing though. And I am talking for myself only. I need the med. Otherwise I would not be able to bear the physical symptom associated with my disorder. I'm trying to find something mild as I am NOT going back on an AD. It screw my mind more than it help it but it help the anxiety. Kind of a catch 22 But an anti anxiety helps alot but makes me tired and lethargic depending how bad my anxiety is. NOt always the same. But thats me. You cant dismiss medication alltogether. It really depends of each case.
Thing is to use it wisely. Some people are addicts. I am not one of those. But I need the med to function. As simple as that. Today i'm good. Yesterday I was a basket case. I had alot of stress in the last week and yesterday i was hit with full blown anxiety attack. a nightmare. So today I had to go up on the dosage of the anti anxiety and doing better. Not tired. Just feel I can stand my body. My heart isnt racing, I can breathe normally and I feel calmer.

 

[clamicide]

That is great clamicide! There isnt enough resources out there for people exiting a cult. So many cults now. You are cool

One thing though. And I am talking for myself only. I need the med. Otherwise I would not be able to bear the physical symptom associated with my disorder. I'm trying to find something mild as I am NOT going back on an AD. It screw my mind more than it help it but it help the anxiety. Kind of a catch 22 But an anti anxiety helps alot but makes me tired and lethargic depending how bad my anxiety is. NOt always the same. But thats me. You cant dismiss medication alltogether. It really depends of each case.
Thing is to use it wisely. Some people are addicts. I am not one of those. But I need the med to function. As simple as that. Today i'm good. Yesterday I was a basket case. I had alot of stress in the last week and yesterday i was hit with full blown anxiety attack. a nightmare. So today I had to go up on the dosage of the anti anxiety and doing better. Not tired. Just feel I can stand my body. My heart isnt racing, I can breathe normally and I feel calmer.

Oh heck! I was NOT dismissing meds at all. I think they save a lot of lives and sanity for those that need them when prescribed and used correctly. Didn't mean to imply otherwise. Just that folks have been medicated for schizophrenia and such because the dissociation coming out of the cult can mimic that and other such stuff. Didn't mean to threadjack, but I felt this stuff was important enough to comment on.
So, if I haven't welcomed you properly Ben... ESMB threads can tend to wander off....

 

[Whitedove]

Oh heck! I was NOT dismissing meds at all. I think they save a lot of lives and sanity for those that need them when prescribed and used correctly. Didn't mean to imply otherwise. Just that folks have been medicated for schizophrenia and such because the dissociation coming out of the cult can mimic that and other such stuff. Didn't mean to threadjack, but I felt this stuff was important enough to comment on.
So, if I haven't welcomed you properly Ben... ESMB threads can tend to wander off....

Exactly. If used properly it does save life. And....

Sorry AGAIN for the threadkjacking

Ben

I'm sorry Whitedove

 

[Ben D]

Hi Whitedove, no worries, please continue. I am also very interested and can identify with your condition in the context of acute and chronic anxiety so lots of empathy here.

FWIW, I practice dhyana meditation where the goal is to still the mind by the cessation of all conceptual thinking. However it takes many years of practice to make the progress that makes a difference, and even then there are still always primed 'buttons' around that will inevitable be pressed to set it off.

Actually though, as I am old now (age 66), and pretty much of a recluse, my environment remains reasonably pleasant most of the time, and so apart from all else, be assured that ageing does have a rewarding side,...mellowing,..that's speaking for my self.

The wheels of life turn slowly,but they turn surely, and they grind exceedingly fine.

 

[Tiger Lily]

The wheels of life turn slowly,but they turn surely, and they grind exceedingly fine.

I like that Ben! Very poetic

-TL

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Hey Ben,
Welcome! I want to celebrate your wonderful win in getting all of your money refunded by COS. It would be very empowering if everyone who has spent money and regretted it, really felt that it was money truely wasted, could recover it. Class action lawsuits on every continent? Ben, I hear that you're feeling isolated, you've got a community of caring people here. Glad you joined us.

 

[Ben D]

I like that Ben! Very poetic

-TL

Thank you Tiger Lily, it reflects how I feel about my life has unfolded. I don't know when and where it originated but I suspect it goes way back in time.

 

[Ben D]

Hey Ben,
Welcome! I want to celebrate your wonderful win in getting all of your money refunded by COS. It would be very empowering if everyone who has spent money and regretted it, really felt that it was money truely wasted, could recover it. Class action lawsuits on every continent? Ben, I hear that you're feeling isolated, you've got a community of caring people here. Glad you joined us.

Hi SweetnessandLight, lovely user name btw, as one newbie to another, thanks for the welcome and welcome to you.

Re money, to tell you the truth, by the time it was all recovered, a good proportion of it had been spent in the intervening period as I was not in any position to earn. Also though there may be a bit of rationalization factored in here, I do consider that the lesson learnt went someway towards lessening the regret to some extent.

By lesson I mean to trust the psychic impressions and synchronicities experienced in life as fate that concerning which one should cooperate with. The thing is, I had a dream many months before that I paid $27,000 for a training course, I was unemployed and careful with my savings and remembered it for its apparent absurdity. A month later, I was browsing at a booksale and picked up a copy of Dianetics for 50 cents, and was fascinated for I have always worked in computers and communications, and it described things in 'my' language'. Another month and I was in Sydney for a job interview, and right across the street was the CoS HQ and so went in out of curiosity. After obligatory personality, E-meter tests and interviews, an initial recommendation of training courses that totaled $17,000 was presented to me. I remembered the dream and the seeming cosmic synchronistic 'paper trail' that lead there and just 'surrendered' to what I thought was fate whereby my present confused state of life would be resolved.

While I still have extraordinary prescient dreams and observe extraordinary synchronities in my life, I now see them as nothing more then patterns that presage possibilities, and stay rooted in the present now always.

No SweetnessandLight, my reclusiveness is not one of feeling isolated nowadays, but it certainly was during the transition from an ego who was going to make a difference to this world, to one whereby quiet detached observation of the turmoil of the world is as much interaction as is felt necessary.

Thanks again and glad to join you here.

 

[FrankBooth]

At least I woke up from it. I cant imagine the scientology children whose parents are still in and choosed their freakin cult over their own children!

That is the ultimate tragedy.

Anyone that puts anything as a priority above their own child is messed up and totally diluted. It's too bad that Scn makes that happen.. From my present perspective, it's easy to sit here and say that, but when you're a total believer, full steam ahead, gung ho, save the world, I totally understand why it happens, but that still doesn't make me turn a blind eye how tragic it is.

It's a total stranglehold that keeps the blinders on for the greater number of dynamics, and it really REALLY sucks.

/derail

 

[Whitedove]

That is the ultimate tragedy.

Anyone that puts anything as a priority above their own child is messed up and totally diluted. It's too bad that Scn makes that happen.. From my present perspective, it's easy to sit here and say that, but when you're a total believer, full steam ahead, gung ho, save the world, I totally understand why it happens, but that still doesn't make me turn a blind eye how tragic it is.

It's a total stranglehold that keeps the blinders on for the greater number of dynamics, and it really REALLY sucks.

/derail

Maybe I wasnt a 100% dedicated scieno cause for me my kids were always the most important persons in the world to me. My first one suffered most cause I was in the SO (went back when he was around 1) and the conditions really werent very good which was upsetting to me more time than I can imagine. Than I got pregnant with my 2nd child and than refused to go back (I was spending a few christmas days at my parents) and I cried cause I couldnt take it anymore of not seeing my child enough, the condition he was living in. It wasnt hell but it sure wasnt what a child needed. I was able to make some sort of agreement to be able to spend more time with my kids.
When I got pregnant with my 3rd, at around 3 months pregnant I decided I had enough. I had moved to another SO location and the conditions were so appauling I was completely distressed and that is what got me out of the SO.
Actually I didnt have it tough to get out than. I guess I was one of the lucky one.

But never ever ever did I consider 'clearing the planet' more important than my children. No, I can not understand that type of parents. I would kick their butts if I could. It really angers me.

A few events that happened when I was in the SO that have actually traumatized me as regard to my kids. I wont say what they are but to me for children the basics are good nutrition, a safe, clean and fun environment, lots of things to do, keep them busy u know, a schedule. Kids need a schedule to feel safe. And a freakin bath every single day and believe me I made sure all that was apply when I could and when I couldnt have that control anymore, well, I left.

Ok, enough. I get really emotional about this.

 

[justaguy]

It's completely worth it to search out folks who are familiar with cult stuff. Unfortunately, a lot of people coming out of cults have symptoms that mimic other psychiatric disorders, and practitioners try to go back and handle the childhood or mis-medicate when the main thing the person in front of them is dealing with is coming from their problems from being in the cult. I'm seriously looking at working at getting a degree, simply because there just aren't enough people familiar with this, and there are a lot of folks out there who could use some help.

You might be surprised, but this happens a lot. Someone goes through a problem, and then they want to help people who were in the same boat they were in and so they go back and get their degree and help out.

A lot of times they're the best at what they do, because they've been there.

 

[BlackCatTango]

I'm no expert, but it sounds to me like.....

Welcome Ben D.

Your experience with this so-called OT intent is very interesting to me. I am glad you could describe it as you did. I don't know of anyone from scn who had powers like that to use.

Other practices would view this as an unethical use of intent.

If it was the use of intent, the two people you described probably "lucked" into it. Some people do not know the power they have when they use it or its just amateur's luck at using this. But it sounds like it came back to bite them in the butt if it left them in shock when you broke through. There's a mirror effect when using "powers"...when someone puts out something with bad intent, the bad comes back even harder to that person.

It's probably why most $cns don't have OT "powers", they didn't develop the kind of personal spiritual growth where they could use this type of power and probably Hubbard didn't know how to either but wanted to create the illusion that he did.

Still, it's mysterious enough to leave me wondering about it as well. (I have an interest in psychic mysteries.)

I really like that you got your money back.

 

[Ben D]

Welcome Ben D.

Your experience with this so-called OT intent is very interesting to me. I am glad you could describe it as you did. I don't know of anyone from scn who had powers like that to use.

Other practices would view this as an unethical use of intent.

If it was the use of intent, the two people you described probably "lucked" into it. Some people do not know the power they have when they use it or its just amateur's luck at using this. But it sounds like it came back to bite them in the butt if it left them in shock when you broke through. There's a mirror effect when using "powers"...when someone puts out something with bad intent, the bad comes back even harder to that person.

It's probably why most $cns don't have OT "powers", they didn't develop the kind of personal spiritual growth where they could use this type of power and probably Hubbard didn't know how to either but wanted to create the illusion that he did.

Still, it's mysterious enough to leave me wondering about it as well. (I have an interest in psychic mysteries.)

I really like that you got your money back.

Hi BlackCatTango, when I first entered into it, I had practically no knowledge of Scientology or LRH except from having read Dianetics thoroughly. However my own personal encounter, and subsequent reading and reflection leaves me with little doubt that mind control at least is very much structured into SCN 'training'. The insidious nature of mind control is that the controlled have been systematically incrementally programmed to be not aware that at some point in the training, voluntarily allowing oneself to be subject to TR's that are 'clearing' the reactive mind, becomes an involuntary obeisance.

I've been doing considerable reading here and am grateful to all the members who have shared their stories and experiences as I now realize that it really is much worse than I had realized and that the dreadful way I was treated was not just an anomaly, but appears to be systemic.

BTW, just to add a detail concerning the threat made by the admin. officer referred to in an earlier post when I told him of my intention to leave and be refunded all moneys for the training that had not been done. During the terse exchange, he mentioned the possibility of suicide as a consequence of a showdown with an OT. That was the final straw,....the rest is history.

Now its clear from reading the stories of the ex-scns here that they were not aware of psychic powers being used in an unethical context, but then if there is a dark occult side to SCN, unless one was initiated, how would one know? Perhaps being an ex is a sign of the good and 'white' side?

I find it unconvincing the idea that LRH was not into power by any means available, and from my own reading of his back ground, he is very suspect.

Have you read this?

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/atack/bs2-6.htm