Hell In America

[A.K. Myers]

Just came across this.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/summeranne/detroit-cheap-houses

Crummy winters but ya cant beat these prices!

 

[Lermanet_com]

TGI! We must be neighbors. What part of Tennessee do you live in?

It is beautiful here. Four seasons, none too extreme. Low cost of
living and friendly (but extremely religious) people.

I'm a good ways directly south of you guys
along the inland savannah river, near NC border, below Augusta, - very rural, very Baptist, very - ahh, provincial. I'm not far enough South to grow oranges, but we have pecan, apple, blueberries, filburts, (Not Jeff he's in Washington State) and mosquitoes the size of volkswagens, after the record rains in last month, the local paper features a weekly Car versus Deer column, which is why many cars here have bashed front corners... People are honest, there is a culture of preying upon the poor here, but life is simple... The heat is extreme in summer, the sun is nearly overhead in June, but I don't mind, as winters are mild and these bone's ache just thinking about the cold weather. We also, unlike New Mexico, have lots of water, and a huge, ancient aquifer...high in lithium...and we don't even have a WallMart in the county.

 

[Gadfly]

TGI! We must be neighbors. What part of Tennessee do you live in?

It is beautiful here. Four seasons, none too extreme. Low cost of living and friendly (but extremely religious) people.

Yeah, it is mostly Baptist here in eastern TN, or other fairly fundamentalist versions of Christianity. But, I have lived here for 5 years now, and I have always gotten along with them fine. Granted, part of that is me. I tend to find the points of agreement with anyone I talk to and ignore any subjects or views that the other will not be able to "easily have". And, I have never found many who "push it on me".

For example, the owners of the local health food store are Seventh Day Adventists (pretty strict). I have had many discussions about the nature of evil, free will, my viewpoint on the Bible as allegory (instead of as fact), etc. Both the owners have been willing to discuss, and even though they never really move past their belief system, each has told me a few times that "I get them to think in ways they wouldn't have otherwise". THAT has to do with HOW I communicate - yes, ARC trickery! :confused2:

I guess I have always liked to apply Hubbard's Two Rules for Happy Living:

1. Be able to experience anything.

2. Only create affects upon others that they can easily experience.

Of course, Scientology doesn't necessarily apply THOSE.

There are MANY affects that Scientology refuses to accept (SPs, criticism, questioning, amending, editing, altering, etc.).

And, they sure often create MANY affects on others that the others do NOT want - disconnection, endless Sec Checks, lying, endless PR, deceit, Hard Sell, crush regging, noisy investigations, overwhelming lawsuits, manipulation, mind control, and on and on.

As with all things in Scientology, they are very selective with who to and how they apply the data.

As with so many of Hubbard's "good ideas", often these have little or nothing to do with the actual behavior of the Church of Scientology or real Scientologists. Just another of the many contradictions within Scientology.

 

[OhMG]

Cost of living is a factor, but job availability is not. However, an area with high unemployment can be unstable in a crisis.

Stay away from most large urban areas then. East & left coast cities being the worst in the respect. Try some of the Southern ones. Less looting & anarchy in most of those in a "crisis" situation.

 

[TG1]

A.K.,

It's Gadfly who lives in Tennessee, not me. However, I do agree that Eastern (or for that matter, Central and Western) Tennessee is absolutely gorgeous. So green, beautiful rivers, beautiful lakes, great music. Nashville's cool, too.

TG1

 

[slobeck]

Have you thought about Austin? Texas aside, its very progressive, has a tech culture, has culture culture cost of living is better than the coasts.

In regards to San Francisco... I live in the Mission District and life here, while very fun, is also hard and expensive. I would point you towards the East Bay where you can still get a great deal on a place, still work and be close to the tech epicenter, has good transpo, weather, infrastructure, culture, food and opportunity. Also magazines are all listing Oakland as one of the most exiting places in the USA. Compared to it's ever aging big sister to the West it's having a renaissance at the moment. Good stuff.

Exhibit A: "Art Murmur, first fridays" http://oaklandartmurmur.org/
[video=vimeo;56397076]http://vimeo.com/56397076[/video]

 

[Leon]

Come over to New Zealand! It's pretty decent here as long as you work.

 

[Helena Handbasket]

Until I saw the bit on the weather extremes, I was going to suggest ALASKA!, home of the 1720 foot tsunami (in 1958, I think) and good exercise running from those dang grizzly bears... and wolves.....and natives...... and that snow.... etc.

Not too many Scientologists up there either!

And it's a good place for a woman to find a 2D -- the odds are good (but the goods are odd).

I've decided I want to be in or by a major city of at least 500000 people (city) or 1000000 (metropolitan area) for the social opportunities. I need to do more research.

Helena

EDIT: Make that within an hour of a major city.

 

[Gadfly]

And it's a good place for a woman to find a 2D -- the odds are good (but the goods are odd).

Helena

While the weather and terrain is wonderful in eastern TN - maybe not so good for a potential 2D:

 

[Helena Handbasket]

Ms. Handbasket

I suggest that you investigate Fort Collins, Colorado.

The local economy is SCREAMING! Unfortunately, as with the US as a whole, the jobs are generally low paying.

Since I plan to be self-employed, this is not an issue for me.

FC is GLBT friendly. No one cares about sexual orientation. No one speaks about sexual orientation.

I am not a lesbian, but I actually consider this to be a good thing. GLBT's add variety to the local culture and just by being there show that the local society is generally tolerant. (As opposed to being in the Bible Belt.)

FC is an hour away from Denver if you need to flagellate yourself with a Real Big City. Denver International Airport is the best major airport I have ever used. There is economical shuttle service from FC to DIA.

That sounds good.

BTW, before I visited the US two years ago DIA was the last I saw of the US when I left. The song Please Come To Boston (second stanza = Denver) kept playing in my head as I was changing planes.

Helena

 

[Helena Handbasket]

One additional idea for snowbirding cheaply: college student housing. College students tend to need housing starting in September, and tend to leave in June, leaving people who rent to college students with vacant space during the summer months.

If you get an apartment down South, you might be able to find a cheap place to spend the summer in norther states. Never personally tried this, so I have no idea of its viability.

Sounds like a plan. I could make my official residence in a place like San Antonio, Texas (which was highly rated in a survey published on the internet) and move north in the summer.

Helena

 

[Helena Handbasket]

A 50-State Survey

Now that I've decided to return to the USA, the question is where specifically. So I've decided to put each state to the test, using the following criteria:

CLimate: I don't want to be too warm or too cold, such as in Alaska. I realize a place with a good climate will often be poorly rated in other areas.

OVercrowding: California is nice, but there's so many people there it's hard to squeeze in.

Social Tolerance: a live-and-let-live towards different kinds of people is a good thing. Acceptance of GLBT and BDSM types is a barometer of tolerance. Massachusettes in particular fails this test because a sadomasochistic act is punishable as a crime of assault, and any assertion of consensuality by either party is rejected.

Religious Tolerance: as long as they accept all kinds of Protestant Christians, that's okay -- I mean, that's not okay. If it's safe to be a Buddhist or a Freezoner, then that's okay. Because of the cult's strong presence in Florida, I don't consider Florida to be safe.

TAXation and cost of living: this can vary a lot even within a state, but New York and Hawaii jump out as being expensive. San Francisco, where I had lived for many years, is too expensive for me now.

Second Amendment friendly: if I want to own a handgun for self defense, will this state encourage it or discourage it?

Federal Nullification: a state that votes to prohibit the enforcement of certain federal laws is on uncertain legal ground, but if the **** hits the fan, it might be easier to get by if the state is not actively helping the feds. I think Montana fits into this category.

Women's Rights: if the state has passed laws making abortion difficult or effectively impossible to get, as in Texas, that means they don't take the needs of women seriously.

POLitics: R is voted for Mitt Romney in the last Presidential election, B is voted for Barack Obama. I don't vote, but I just don't trust the Republicans or anyone who strongly supports them. I suppose a state where Romney only won by a small amount, as in North Carolina, might be okay.

RECommended: Any positive recommendation by a contributor to the forum like Tennessee, or by one of my other friends, get a yes in this column. (Note: where not otherwise obvious, Y is a good attribute, N is a bad one.)

Also important are social opportunities. This requires access to a large cosmopolitan city, say within a 1 hour's drive, with its diversity. However, I don't want to live too close to an area where social unrest will break out if the economy collapses.

. . . . . . . . CL . OV . ST . RT . TAX . SA . FN. WR . POL . REC
Alaska: . . . .N . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .R
Alabama: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R
Arkansas: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .R
Arizona: . . . . . . . . . N . . . . . . . . . . . . . Y. . . . . .R

California . . Y . .Y . . Y . . Y . . .N . . . . . .Y . . . . . B
Colorado . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .B . . .Y
Connecticut . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .B
Delaware . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .B
Florida . . . . . . . . . . . . . . N . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .B . . .Y

Georgia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .R
Hawaii . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .N . . . . . . . . . . . . B
Iowa . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B
Idaho . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .R

. . . . . . . . CL . OV . ST . RT . TAX . SA . FN. WR . POL . REC
Illinois . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B
Indiana . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .R
Kansas . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Y. . . . . .R
Kentucky . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R

Louisiana . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .R
M'chusettes . . . . . . . N . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B
Maryland . . Y . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B
Maine . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .B
Michigan . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .B

Minnesota . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .B
Missouri . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R
Mississippi . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .R
Montana . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Y. . . . . .R

. . . . . . . . CL . OV . ST . RT . TAX . SA . FN. WR . POL . REC
N. Carolina . . . . . . . . Y. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R . . . .Y
N. Dakota . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .R
Nebraska . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R
New H'shire . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .B

New Jersey . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .B
New Mexico . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .B
Nevada . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .B
New York . . . . . . . . Y . . Y . . .N . . .N . . . . .Y . . .B
Ohio . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .B

Oklahoma . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R
Oregon . . . .Y . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .B
Pennsylvania . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B
Rhode Island . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B

. . . . . . . . CL . OV . ST . RT . TAX . SA . FN. WR . POL . REC
S. Carolina . . . . . . . . N. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R
S. Dakota . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .R
Tennessee .Y . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R . . .Y

Texas . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .N . . .R . . .Y
Utah . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . N . . . . . . . . . .Y. . . . . .R
Vermont . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B
Virginia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .B
Washington . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .B

Wisconsin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B
W. Virginia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .R
Wyoming . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Y . . . . . .R

Please, everyone, feel free to post updates. (But please just post the additional information and let me put it in the chart; it will get too confusing otherwise.)

Helena

 

[Enthetan]

If you find such a place, please let me know. I'm don't think you will find a place that meets all your criteria, so it may come down to having to prioritize your criteria. Maybe a points system?

 

[Udarnik]

NC is out, despite going for Obama. They just outlawed gay marriage. I have a friend down there and I keep asking when she and her wife are going to get the fuck out. To be fair the big cities
are OK, but you need to deal with the rednecks in the rest
of the state. SC makes NC look like San Francisco.

 

[kate8024]

I used to live outside of Raleigh which was pretty nice. Nature is very beautiful in a lot of parts of NC.
The Florida panhandle (ie Pensecola) is really nice and far enough away from Clearwater that you would probably never encounter a Scientologist.
Devner is really awesome if you don't mind cold winters. They have a great downtown area and you can go 15 minutes outside the city and you have hiking in the mountains and such.
Austin, despite being in Texas, is pretty awesome - its specifically legal to be nude in public and its very much a hippy town. It also has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country and no state income tax.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Oh, yes! I spent 20 years in California, a good chunk of it right smack dab in the middle of San Francisco. But it's not what it used to be. It has an aging infrastructure, an even more outrageously high cost of living than before, and the yuppies have pushed out all of the local subculture. The excess population is shifting to Oakland, which is the new hot spot to live.

I've seen Portland, and it is nice. They don't have temperature extremes and I've heard the cost of living is low.

Helena

there's still some subculture here

 

[Helena Handbasket]

If you find such a place, please let me know. I'm don't think you will find a place that meets all your criteria, so it may come down to having to prioritize your criteria. Maybe a points system?

Of course. A state that rates well in a number of areas but fails in just a few would still be a good choice. I just haven't decided on how many points for each column yet. And thank you all for your input!

Helena

 

[Helena Handbasket]

I Must Be A Damn Fool

for even considering this. The USA is careening towards an economic breakdown, with joblessness, Social Security cutbacks, and possible confiscation of wealth among other woes.

The last book I read (see http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?32562-Preppers-And-Prepping&p=829587#post829587 ) says the USA is in the first stages of it.

"Nullification" is the act of state legislatures declaring that certain Federal laws are not valid and are not to be enforced in that state, even to the point of arresting Federal officials who attempt to enforce them and charging them with felonies.

If it comes to that, you can be sure Federal troops will be called up, the same as when President Fillmore sent troops to what is now New Mexico to stop Texas from invading. If neither side backs down, as Governor Wallace did on the steps of the Birmingham schoolhouse, then shots could be fired as was at Fort Sumter in 1861 -- which triggered the Civil War.

Ever since I "decided to go back" I've been very depressed -- as if my body is saying "don't do it!"

I cry for the USA. And I'm afraid. Very, very afraid.

Helena

 

[La La Lou Lou]

I Must Be A Damn Fool

for even considering this. The USA is careening towards an economic breakdown, with joblessness, Social Security cutbacks, and possible confiscation of wealth among other woes.

The last book I read (see http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?32562-Preppers-And-Prepping&p=829587#post829587 ) says the USA is in the first stages of it.

"Nullification" is the act of state legislatures declaring that certain Federal laws are not valid and are not to be enforced in that state, even to the point of arresting Federal officials who attempt to enforce them and charging them with felonies.

If it comes to that, you can be sure Federal troops will be called up, the same as when President Fillmore sent troops to what is now New Mexico to stop Texas from invading. If neither side backs down, as Governor Wallace did on the steps of the Birmingham schoolhouse, then shots could be fired as was at Fort Sumter in 1861 -- which triggered the Civil War.

Ever since I "decided to go back" I've been very depressed -- as if my body is saying "don't do it!"

I cry for the USA. And I'm afraid. Very, very afraid.

Helena

Helena, I am sorry to hear that you're unhappy.

I once heard of someone who was worried about how the world was going and decided to go somewhere really safe. He found a job on a small uninteresting Island and got there just before the Argentinians invaded it (the Falkland Islands).

Someone once advised me that you go to live somewhere because a job or a person or people of course, not just for the view or weather or cheap furniture. I think that's sound advice. We can't know what is in the future, we can guess but that's all. What is important is relationships with people. Sometimes too much choice just hurts, it is extremely unsettling especially for people who need the safety of routines, your depression and mood will lift when you've made a decision and more so when you have settled down, that's what you need. Moving is very stressful, I just moved, it was such an upheaval, and it was only a few miles, but I'm so glad I did, it's something you have to get through, it's not easy, but a new future awaits.

 

[Helena Handbasket]

Someone once advised me that you go to live somewhere because a job or a person or people of course, not just for the view or weather or cheap furniture. I think that's sound advice. We can't know what is in the future, we can guess but that's all. What is important is relationships with people.

There is nobody in my life right now, and I'm retired.

I have given up on the second dynamic. Too many loses. That part of my life has become much easier now that I have abandoned it. (And don't you dare tell me to hang in there and try again or that the right person will come along when I'm least expecting it.)

I just want to go somewhere where I can write my books and not be hassled.

A good deal of my depression has to do with the fact that I'm stressed. From multiple sources.

Helena