Enthetan
Master of Disaster
The advantage you have, now, that we didn't have then, is that you know that Scientology has a dark side.
Hello, I'm Chloe
- Thread starter Chloe
- Start date
The advantage you have, now, that we didn't have then, is that you know that Scientology has a dark side.
Leland
Crusader
I believe much of the allure of the Cult is that it promotes it is something "new".....and that "everything is now figured out."
Of course.....this is a lie.
It is not "new" anymore.....it is 76 years old....and now REAL information about it exists.....not the lies the cult promotes.
Another aspect is some....mostly the young, are daunted by the prospect of the life before them....education....how to make a living....why the planet is like it is...and such...
And IMO...many try the Cult...as a "short cut" ....or a panacea...to their fear of life.
Once in.....you are in the trap....and start on their treadmill.....
I suppose it is also a treadmill to become a Doctor...an Engineer...a Teacher also...But,
At least these treadmills are known about.....
The Cult promotes that their "path" is known about....but it isn't.....really, and certainly not "accredited"....and doesn't lead to anything in life....
Of course.....this is a lie.
It is not "new" anymore.....it is 76 years old....and now REAL information about it exists.....not the lies the cult promotes.
Another aspect is some....mostly the young, are daunted by the prospect of the life before them....education....how to make a living....why the planet is like it is...and such...
And IMO...many try the Cult...as a "short cut" ....or a panacea...to their fear of life.
Once in.....you are in the trap....and start on their treadmill.....
I suppose it is also a treadmill to become a Doctor...an Engineer...a Teacher also...But,
At least these treadmills are known about.....
The Cult promotes that their "path" is known about....but it isn't.....really, and certainly not "accredited"....and doesn't lead to anything in life....
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TheOriginalBigBlue
Gold Meritorious Patron
The end of the world scenario that LRH used to get people to set aside their critical thinking was supposed to happen around 30 years ago! It even survived the Coming Ice Age of 1978. The sacred texts would need to be updated regularly to accommodate the crisis de jour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kGB5MMIAVA
The_Fixer
Class Clown
I guess you would most likely know this already, but it was very different times when many of us got involved.
I got in late 70's. The cult would aggressively attack (physically and legally) any critics, so most media wouldn't say a word about them generally speaking. The motto was (and still is) "Always attack, never defend". And so they did. Everybody ran and hid when the church flexed its muscles. The world remained in the dark about them.
Consequently, we entered not really knowing anything about the dark side of this lot.
The way of thinking in that era was also quite unique. We were shaking off the shackles of the old traditional way of thinking and were challenging anything that was established, just to change the world. Some of it should never had been challenged, much was long overdue for change. We were in effect, pioneers to a new world.
This may sound a little conceited and arrogant, but there is some truth in this. We were beginning to challenge the basic accepted orders like, the Pope, the Queen Victoria type society (yes, in many ways it still was then). Most notably was it was challenging sexuality, identity, racism, discrimination, law and order - experimenting with drugs, protesting what we saw as injustices, standing up for minorities (blacks, Indigenous people) to get Civil Rights. Protesting about our being involved in wars and challenging our politicians and their decisions. Openly standing against the establishment. Our music was reflecting all this as well and sometimes leading the way too.
We were demanding change. Fundamental changes to society and how we were thinking. We began to explore the mind and spirituality, challenging fundamental beliefs..... it was pretty heady stuff. It was all new and exciting.
The series of wars our societies had gone through had only entrenched us even deeper in the ways of the past. The losers had to change their ways. Or fade away. Us victors saw no reason to. So we just plodded along until someone said "enough!" and began to rebel.
Our minds began to open up. But it was also leading us into uncharted and some, frankly, pretty dangerous territory.
One of those dangers was Scientology. It wasn't the only one. If I recall correctly, there was an explosion of cults everywhere to cater to this new world. You couldn't even walk up the main streets of cities without some cultie promoting their wares. The 60's and 70s were a pretty wild ride. Mix in a bunch of drugs. Most things were in uncharted territory.
Scientology as it turns out was one of the more sinister ones. Still is. At the time, it was offering unconventional thinking which was attractive to us. We never even thought about it all being a big lie as we were also very naive.
Times have changed and they are being attacked from all sides. There is now so much information available about them, you really must be blind if you get involved now. The church is on the run and in damage control mode.
This is a long winded way of saying we had an excuse. Today's generation of scientologists had better come up with a better one
I got in late 70's. The cult would aggressively attack (physically and legally) any critics, so most media wouldn't say a word about them generally speaking. The motto was (and still is) "Always attack, never defend". And so they did. Everybody ran and hid when the church flexed its muscles. The world remained in the dark about them.
Consequently, we entered not really knowing anything about the dark side of this lot.
The way of thinking in that era was also quite unique. We were shaking off the shackles of the old traditional way of thinking and were challenging anything that was established, just to change the world. Some of it should never had been challenged, much was long overdue for change. We were in effect, pioneers to a new world.
This may sound a little conceited and arrogant, but there is some truth in this. We were beginning to challenge the basic accepted orders like, the Pope, the Queen Victoria type society (yes, in many ways it still was then). Most notably was it was challenging sexuality, identity, racism, discrimination, law and order - experimenting with drugs, protesting what we saw as injustices, standing up for minorities (blacks, Indigenous people) to get Civil Rights. Protesting about our being involved in wars and challenging our politicians and their decisions. Openly standing against the establishment. Our music was reflecting all this as well and sometimes leading the way too.
We were demanding change. Fundamental changes to society and how we were thinking. We began to explore the mind and spirituality, challenging fundamental beliefs..... it was pretty heady stuff. It was all new and exciting.
The series of wars our societies had gone through had only entrenched us even deeper in the ways of the past. The losers had to change their ways. Or fade away. Us victors saw no reason to. So we just plodded along until someone said "enough!" and began to rebel.
Our minds began to open up. But it was also leading us into uncharted and some, frankly, pretty dangerous territory.
One of those dangers was Scientology. It wasn't the only one. If I recall correctly, there was an explosion of cults everywhere to cater to this new world. You couldn't even walk up the main streets of cities without some cultie promoting their wares. The 60's and 70s were a pretty wild ride. Mix in a bunch of drugs. Most things were in uncharted territory.
Scientology as it turns out was one of the more sinister ones. Still is. At the time, it was offering unconventional thinking which was attractive to us. We never even thought about it all being a big lie as we were also very naive.
Times have changed and they are being attacked from all sides. There is now so much information available about them, you really must be blind if you get involved now. The church is on the run and in damage control mode.
This is a long winded way of saying we had an excuse. Today's generation of scientologists had better come up with a better one
TheOriginalBigBlue
Gold Meritorious Patron
I guess you would most likely know this already, but it was very different times when many of us got involved.
I got in late 70's. The cult would aggressively attack (physically and legally) any critics, so most media wouldn't say a word about them generally speaking. The motto was (and still is) "Always attack, never defend". And so they did. Everybody ran and hid when the church flexed its muscles. The world remained in the dark about them.
Consequently, we entered not really knowing anything about the dark side of this lot.
The way of thinking in that era was also quite unique. We were shaking off the shackles of the old traditional way of thinking and were challenging anything that was established, just to change the world. Some of it should never had been challenged, much was long overdue for change. We were in effect, pioneers to a new world.
This may sound a little conceited and arrogant, but there is some truth in this. We were beginning to challenge the basic accepted orders like, the Pope, the Queen Victoria type society (yes, in many ways it still was then). Most notably was it was challenging sexuality, identity, racism, discrimination, law and order - experimenting with drugs, protesting what we saw as injustices, standing up for minorities (blacks, Indigenous people) to get Civil Rights. Protesting about our being involved in wars and challenging our politicians and their decisions. Openly standing against the establishment. Our music was reflecting all this as well and sometimes leading the way too.
We were demanding change. Fundamental changes to society and how we were thinking. We began to explore the mind and spirituality, challenging fundamental beliefs..... it was pretty heady stuff. It was all new and exciting.
The series of wars our societies had gone through had only entrenched us even deeper in the ways of the past. The losers had to change their ways. Or fade away. Us victors saw no reason to. So we just plodded along until someone said "enough!" and began to rebel.
Our minds began to open up. But it was also leading us into uncharted and some, frankly, pretty dangerous territory.
One of those dangers was Scientology. It wasn't the only one. If I recall correctly, there was an explosion of cults everywhere to cater to this new world. You couldn't even walk up the main streets of cities without some cultie promoting their wares. The 60's and 70s were a pretty wild ride. Mix in a bunch of drugs. Most things were in uncharted territory.
Scientology as it turns out was one of the more sinister ones. Still is. At the time, it was offering unconventional thinking which was attractive to us. We never even thought about it all being a big lie as we were also very naive.
Times have changed and they are being attacked from all sides. There is now so much information available about them, you really must be blind if you get involved now. The church is on the run and in damage control mode.
This is a long winded way of saying we had an excuse. Today's generation of scientologists had better come up with a better one
Looking back on that period a lot of the young people who got into Scientology shared a common mistrust of government. Over time these value systems would roughly split along two fundamentally different directions.
One camp would be socialist or redistributionist and the other would become traditional libertarian or constitutionalist. The main difference is socialists support government expansion if they control it but libertarians remain mistrustful of any government expansion.
In the 70s these distinctions may have been hashed out in eclectic political circles but us kids just wanted an honest fair government that didn’t get us killed in a badly managed war. Scientology presented itself as an alternative to actually make a difference. The stakes were high so we were willing to disregard things that should have caused us to question the red flags that didn’t make sense or conflicted with our moral compass.
Even though we were rebels in our time we were still mostly raised in families that held traditional 50’s type values where you trust and respect authority. That may seem like a contradiction but it manifested in a rebellion against family, society and government that once channeled evolved into a strong loyalty for Scientology. I see this today as people still buy into a litany of causes on the basis of their glossy promising names and alarmist motivations without performing critical analysis. The solution to any problem is always somewhere between two extremes and it is human nature to doggedly refuse to define those extremes. If you indoctrinate someone before they have matured enough to solidify their reasoning processes then you can plant mechanisms that prevent them from ever developing those skills.
Gib
Crusader
That was before my period. My period was the advertising done by Jefferson Hawkins advertising on TV.
Hypatia
Pagan
Hi!
I'm Chloe and I just registered to be able to interact with you. I study at an university college, am 22 years old, love travelling and eating chocolate. I'm not an ex-SCN, but I have the feeling that I could use this forum. I'm not a native English speaker, but I try my best
Almost 7 months ago I started a research about Scientology for a friend. He writes a thesis about Scn and compares the information given to researchers with the information given to new members / people who are interested. Along with some other students, I was allowed to help with the thesis. We received a lot of information (about cults, about Scientology, etc.) and have debriefings. I was really excited about this! I care deeply about people and was curious about what might lead them to join Scn and what the benefits could be. Especially since there is a lot of controversy about this 'religion'...
Every one of us got a different role. My role is the skeptical person that wants to join to help others, but only if there is evidence. This role does suit me quite well. I went a few times to an Org, helped two times with the anti-drugs campaign, read Dianetics and started a course about Study Tech.
Recently, I started to notice that I'm getting interested in the technology itself and what it could mean for me. I don't understand why and find it a bit scary. I hope that reading here and interacting with you will help me to make up my mind about this.
Kind regards,
Chloe
I'd say definitely read exes' stories about their experiences.
Chloe
Patron
I lost a bit track in my thread.. Please tell me if I miss you in my replies.
@Dave B.
Thanks for your welcome! I'm definitely going to read some other treads about the history of the Scn tech. And wow, Ted Bragin is indeed a nutcase. Hubbard never tells that he's God right? I only remember reading that he calls himself the Anti-Christ?
@Churchill,
Thanks for your post. I've seen the documentary twice and I think it is really good. It's a pity that it didn't get nominated. I watched it together with a few friends. Although we found the documentary interesting and alarming, we wondered if this is the same in Europe.
@Freethinker,
Thanks! I saw on youtube the communication course (non-Scientological) and have de PDF files of it. It looks a bit strange actually. Just sitting and saying nothing for hours ('confronting), reading from Alice in Wonderland...
What do you mean with "talk to someone who will calm your fears"? The part about the 'handling' and promising that you have to come back sounds a bit creepy. I also wonder how the forcing can work?
@guanoloco,
Thanks, I replied somewhere about the studytech..And yes, I noticed that LRH uses strange words for real science and pseudoscience. I also found it strange that he never really spoke about how he conducted his tests or the results. I even asked this in CoS and a woman told me that the methodology of his studies is written in the 'original thesis'-book. She added (of course) that I could buy it right now if I wanted.
I'll try to remember the three book suggestions, sounds interesting!
And yes, the photoshopping is suspicious... I have never heard of Sara Northrup, so I'll search the board and web for it
@He-man,
Takk! (probably the wrong Scaninavian language, but I hope you appreciate this effort)
Good question. I think it's a mix of laziness (everything is at disposal in CoS) and lack of knowledge. Before this thread, I was under the impression that LRH [and CoS] invented (or integrated differenct sources) almost everything. Now I know better and will search and read other sources and free Scn-sources first.
@Victoria,
Thanks, I don't believe in the reactive mind or in BT's and am not interested in becoming an OT.
@The Anabaptist Jacques & Type4_PTS, Thanks. Your replies touched me.
@Degraded being,
Thanks. I understand your question about the reliability and wondered myself. But it got accepted by his professor and the ethical committee, so I guess it's okay? I don't have (and want) to think critical about this.
@OriginalBigBlue, Thanks. We're not supposed to go in deep, so I don't think it is a problem. Only two did auditing, the rest courses, OCA, chatting and (mostly cancelled) sunday services.
LRH has written about the end of the world?
@Gib, thanks for your welcome and reply. When I read your first link, I remembered that I've seen this a long time ago at school. It was a nice summary. Haha, but may be my communication is compulsive? (Just kidding )
@Leland, It's about the stable data and confusion, right?
@The_Fixer, OriginalBigBlue & Gib, thanks. Interesting to see how the historical perspective influenced people to start with Scn.
@Hypatia, I already started
@Dave B.
Thanks for your welcome! I'm definitely going to read some other treads about the history of the Scn tech. And wow, Ted Bragin is indeed a nutcase. Hubbard never tells that he's God right? I only remember reading that he calls himself the Anti-Christ?
@Churchill,
Thanks for your post. I've seen the documentary twice and I think it is really good. It's a pity that it didn't get nominated. I watched it together with a few friends. Although we found the documentary interesting and alarming, we wondered if this is the same in Europe.
@Freethinker,
Thanks! I saw on youtube the communication course (non-Scientological) and have de PDF files of it. It looks a bit strange actually. Just sitting and saying nothing for hours ('confronting), reading from Alice in Wonderland...
What do you mean with "talk to someone who will calm your fears"? The part about the 'handling' and promising that you have to come back sounds a bit creepy. I also wonder how the forcing can work?
@guanoloco,
Thanks, I replied somewhere about the studytech..And yes, I noticed that LRH uses strange words for real science and pseudoscience. I also found it strange that he never really spoke about how he conducted his tests or the results. I even asked this in CoS and a woman told me that the methodology of his studies is written in the 'original thesis'-book. She added (of course
) that I could buy it right now if I wanted. I'll try to remember the three book suggestions, sounds interesting!
And yes, the photoshopping is suspicious... I have never heard of Sara Northrup, so I'll search the board and web for it
@He-man,
Takk! (probably the wrong Scaninavian language, but I hope you appreciate this effort
)Good question. I think it's a mix of laziness (everything is at disposal in CoS) and lack of knowledge. Before this thread, I was under the impression that LRH [and CoS] invented (or integrated differenct sources) almost everything. Now I know better and will search and read other sources and free Scn-sources first.
@Victoria,
Thanks, I don't believe in the reactive mind or in BT's and am not interested in becoming an OT.
@The Anabaptist Jacques & Type4_PTS, Thanks. Your replies touched me.
- I'm curious if there are more experiences?Reasonable said:
@Degraded being,
Thanks. I understand your question about the reliability and wondered myself. But it got accepted by his professor and the ethical committee, so I guess it's okay? I don't have (and want) to think critical about this.
@OriginalBigBlue, Thanks. We're not supposed to go in deep, so I don't think it is a problem. Only two did auditing, the rest courses, OCA, chatting and (mostly cancelled) sunday services.
LRH has written about the end of the world?
@Gib, thanks for your welcome and reply. When I read your first link, I remembered that I've seen this a long time ago at school. It was a nice summary. Haha, but may be my communication is compulsive? (Just kidding
)@Leland, It's about the stable data and confusion, right?
@The_Fixer, OriginalBigBlue & Gib, thanks. Interesting to see how the historical perspective influenced people to start with Scn.
@Hypatia, I already started
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JustSheila
Crusader
(regarding your post above)
Oh dear, Chloe.
Don't ever think you have to answer each and every person and post on a forum.
Normal human conversations just don't go that way, even though in scn they teach you to do this. Normal human conversations go back and forth and off track and back again or not. Just clicking a button at the bottom with 'thank you' or 'like' or whatever is good enough, and you don't have to do that if you don't feel like it or have time, either.
One time we had a scientologist here who had been practicing it for 20 years before he left. The poor guy stayed up for three straight days trying to answer each and every post personally, and he was in his 70s! You don't have to do that. Nobody expects that and nobody should be offended if you don't.
Just go with the flow as best you can and enjoy yourself.
Oh dear, Chloe.
Don't ever think you have to answer each and every person and post on a forum.
Normal human conversations just don't go that way, even though in scn they teach you to do this. Normal human conversations go back and forth and off track and back again or not. Just clicking a button at the bottom with 'thank you' or 'like' or whatever is good enough, and you don't have to do that if you don't feel like it or have time, either.One time we had a scientologist here who had been practicing it for 20 years before he left. The poor guy stayed up for three straight days trying to answer each and every post personally, and he was in his 70s! You don't have to do that. Nobody expects that and nobody should be offended if you don't.
Just go with the flow as best you can and enjoy yourself.
Churchill
Gold Meritorious Patron
I lost a bit track in my thread.. Please tell me if I miss you in my replies.
@Dave B.
Thanks for your welcome! I'm definitely going to read some other treads about the history of the Scn tech. And wow, Ted Bragin is indeed a nutcase. Hubbard never tells that he's God right? I only remember reading that calls himself the Anti-Christ?
@Churchill,
Thanks for your post. I've seen the documentary twice and I think it is really good. It's a pity that it didn't get nominated. I watched it together with a few friends. Although we found the documentary interesting and alarming, we wondered if this is the same in Europe.
@Freethinker,
Thanks! Hmm, sounds interesting about the beginning. I saw on youtube the communication course (non-Scientological) and have de PDF files of it. It looks a bit strange actually. Just sitting and saying nothing for hours ('confronting), reading from Alice in Wonderland...
What do you mean with "talk to someone who will calm your fears"? The part about the 'handling' and promising that you have to come back sounds a bit creepy. I also wonder how the forcing can work?
@guanoloco,
Thanks, I replied somewhere about the studytech..And yes, I noticed that LRH uses strange words for real science and pseudoscience. I also found it strange that he never really spoke about how he conducted his tests or the results. I even asked this in CoS and a woman told me that the methodology of his studies is written in the 'original thesis'-book. She added (of course
I'll try to remember the three book suggestions, sounds interesting!
And yes, the photoshopping is suspicious... I have never heard of Sara Northrup, so I'll search the board and web for it
@He-man,
Takk! (probably the wrong Scaninavian language, but I hope you appreciate this effort
Good question. I think it's a mix of laziness (everything is at disposal in CoS) and lack of knowledge. Before this thread, I was under the impression that LRH [and CoS] invented (or integrated differenct sources) almost everything. Now I know better and will search and read other sources and free Scn-sources first.
@Victoria,
Thanks, I don't believe in the reactive mind or in BT's and am not interested in becoming an OT.
@The Anabaptist Jacques & Type4_PTS, Thanks. Your replies touched me.
- I'm curious if there are more experiences?
@Degraded being,
Thanks. I understand your question about the reliability and wondered myself. But it got accepted by his professor and the ethical committee, so I guess it's okay? I don't have (and want) to think critical about this.
@OriginalBigBlue, Thanks. We're not supposed to go in deep, so I don't think it is a problem. Only a two did auditing, the rest courses, OCA, chatting and (mostly cancelled) sundy services.
@Gib, thanks for your welcome and reply. When I read your first link, I remembered that I've seen this a long time ago at school. It was a nice summary. Haha, but may be my communication is compulsive? (Just kidding
Chloe,
Please help me to understand something in your post above.
You wrote, in your reply to me, that you had seen Going Clear twice.
Yet, in your reply to Guanaco, you state that you have never heard of Sara Northrup.
PirateAndBum
Gold Meritorious Patron
I got in when I was 19. 30+ years later I left $300,000 poorer. Anything you want to know about Scn can be found outside the organization. I can 't advise you strongly enough to not get involved with the C of S. I will say that I liked the auditing, but there is better stuff available today - and it is free. Pilot's Self Clearing book has loads of processes you can do yourself. TROM is cool. Z. Slavinsky's spiritual technology is also pretty cool. Scn Tech Volumes are available on the web as well as Hub's books and lectures (if you can find the right sites.) Unlike others here I can't say that there is nothing to the tech, however I will say that it's theory is seriously flawed.
Again: Don't get involved with Miscavige's "church". You will live to regret it.
Again: Don't get involved with Miscavige's "church". You will live to regret it.
Little David
Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes, his second wife and the mother of his third child. He denied he was married to her and said this baby wasn't his but kidnapped the baby and told Sara he cut her into pieces and dumped her in a river:@Sheila,
Thank you. I don't feel obliged and don't worry, I won't lose my sleep for it.
I just really appreciate all the effort and comments to inform and warn me!
I did, but I can't recall a lot of names.Thinking back, that's the wife?
The_Fixer
Class Clown
That reminds me.
I remember sitting in the Auckland Org one day listening to one of LRH's boring bloody tapes...
I distinctly remember him stating that if we don't clear the world by 1986 (or 7 years, memory a bit hazy on that part), then it will be too late....
By his own words, Scientology is already irrelevant. It has failed and missed the boat. It may as well pack up its bags and go home.
Anyone else remember this [STRIKE]lecture[/STRIKE] drivel?
TheOriginalBigBlue
Gold Meritorious Patron
Chloe, I like the summary format you use to respond to the board as a group but I suggest that you include links to the posts. If you click on the post number then it will provide the specific link. This way a person can navigate back to the post quickly.
"Is it the same in Europe?" Stories about the RPF are numerous for the Ships, the Complex, Flag, INT and Saint Hill but I also would be interested to know if there were RPF programs conducted in other countries or locations.
I am glad that you don't plan to "go in deep". This is not your typical class project. It would be like going on a field trip to study recycling and mulching at the local waste disposal company but you inadvertently open a door looking for the restroom and find the Sopranos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1rcmpOOJAw
Missions aka franchises historically have been the most independent operations but they are at the bottom of the hierarchy. The people there can be absolutely sincere in their desire to help others and oblivious to what goes on at INT and in the Sea Org. They may actually be resentful of the intrusive missions (Mission here is a separate meaning referring to a special project that is generally operating under a higher authority) that conduct witch hunts for SPs on staff or public, try to recruit the best staff or public, reg public for higher org services or IAS donations, etc. The mission staff may actually adopt a protective posture to try to insulate newbies against the harsher aspects of the organization and tolerate more transgressions that higher orgs do not. Non Sea Org class IV orgs are next up above missions and all of this could go for them as well to some degree. However, you could be on an intro course in a mission or Class IV one day feeling cozy and safe and a Flag or INT mission could arrive and you can suddenly find yourself under strict scrutiny.
LRH often made reference to doomsday scenarios. Probably the best known is this passage which is on the last page of KSW and required reading at the beginning of every course:
http://www.stss.nl/stss-materials/E...EN_BW_CR_Keeping_Scientology_Working__KSW.pdf
We’re not playing some minor game in Scientology. It isn’t cute or something to do
for lack of something better. The whole agonized future of this planet, every Man, Woman and Child on it, and your own destiny for the next endless trillions of years depend on what you do here and now with and in Scientology. This is a deadly serious activity. And if
we miss getting out of the trap now, we may never again have another chance.
Remember, this is our first chance to do so in all the endless trillions of years of the past.
_____
The historical perspective helps explain our mindset during a given period but the things that make this system work don't change with time. Some critics like to say that Scientologists are sociopaths or must be sociopaths to stay in beyond a certain point. Except for some unique cases I disagree. I do think LRH was sociopathic and amoral. Just because someone is sociopathic doesn't mean that they like other sociopaths. If a wolf is stalking a herd of sheep it may view other wolves as competition and untrustworthy. If a sheep starts to abuse the other sheep that doesn't threaten the wolf, in fact, it can help to keep the other sheep off balance and distracted so they are easier to hunt.
I think LRH went through great lengths to screen out people who were untrustworthy by normal standards. If they were a problem in the wog world he didn't want them getting close to him. He wanted responsible, effective, clean people who could be pushed to a breaking point where they would do what HE wanted the way HE wanted. So if a basically decent person can be manipulated into doing things a natural sociopath would do does that make them a sociopath?
The_Fixer
Class Clown
FIFY
As much as this was intended as a joke, the real story is that there is a long list of people who really never survived scientology.
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TheOriginalBigBlue
Gold Meritorious Patron
FIFY
As much as this was intended as a joke, the real story is that there is a long list of people who really never survived scientology.
http://www.xenu-directory.net/mirrors/www.whyaretheydead.net/
He-man
Hero extraordinary
There are a lot of stories over at ex scientology kids too, not a very active forum but the stories, some very heartbreaking, are always a good read, like Doublevee's:
http://www.exscientologykids.com/eskforums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=893
I think that one, and others of course, shows how callous the church is, and shows how they will not help anyone who gets fucked over in life by the church. Dump them on the street, forget about the victims and move on is the church motto.
http://www.exscientologykids.com/eskforums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=893
I think that one, and others of course, shows how callous the church is, and shows how they will not help anyone who gets fucked over in life by the church. Dump them on the street, forget about the victims and move on is the church motto.
Storm
Patron
Hello Chloe,
I've been lurking here for sometime now, and what I can say for certain is this forum has a wide spectrum of viewpoints. Some are disaffected with Mr. Shudda-been-a-Miscarriage, some the church, or a smaller group within same (Sea Org, so on), some are disaffected with LRH, some believe the technology is a fraud, and others "totally done" with the whole mess. So, there are lots of perspectives to evaluate - this is a good thing, no?
Getting involved with Scientology is an airplane ride with one of three outcomes possible....
1) Jump with a Parachute: You have several hundred thousand dollars to spend just to check it out, don't care if it's 100% untrue (not saying it is untrue, just that you may end up thinking that in the end), and a super-human ability to say no over and over again to what in my opinion are probably the most persuasive individuals on the planet. They will never stop seeking every dime they can extract from you, and the longer you hang around, the more this will intensify. The trick to this method is to walk in, buy what you need to become a Classed Auditor and be audited to OT VIII, and ruthlessly claim "I'm flat broke" from there on out. You will need a strategy that involves a permanently discharged cell phone battery, Critical business meetings scheduled immediately following every course and session, and a willingness so spend each and every break hiding in a bathroom stall - fear not, you will still be accosted for money through the stall door. Hopefully, your chute will open and you will land on Earth safe and sound.
2) Jump without a Parachute:This method involves joining staff. You will want to be in a higher-org, one that can at least make clears and train auditors who can clear folks, Negotiate the best deal you can up front, something like "Class VIII Auditor for x number of years on staff".... Now, wad those years up and toss them away. Will you help people? Some will say you have helped them, yes. Will you help yourself? That's a toss up, depends a bit on how unhappy you are right now, and how well you are able to plan your "exit strategy". By that I mean, have you finished school so when you decide you're "done" you have a possibility of a career to turn to? Are you married, so you can afford to eat more than the average Ethiopian and have (dirty word alert) health insurance? Will your husband be happy with at best spending 1/2 a day per week with you? If all that is looking good, then I'd say you've got a very nice hay-stack to aim for... Take the Leap! Chances are, you will be in Ethics trouble shortly after joining staff, routed off of course, and end up selling books on the street for your x number of years. Your haystack will look very small, and very far away.
3) Wait for the Plane to Land: To successfully navigate this option you will need to remain in your seat and securely buckled in place. Here is where you will purchase services from the church as you can afford to, without neglecting other aspects of your life. This is highly frowned on. Odds of success are improved by 1) Bringing super-glue with you for the seat belt buckle. (2) Boarding the plane completely naked after having dumped a gallon of baby-oil over your skin, to lesson the possibility of anyone getting a grip. Make no mistake, should you choose this path EVERYONE on this ride will do everything they can possibly do to get you out of that chair and on to Option #1 or #2 above for the duration of the flight. You will not enjoy this. Worse still, this plane will never land. At this point in time, and barring an absolute miracle, Scientology is done for. The tactics the church has employed for 50 years are catching up, and the only TRUE words heard coming from the cockpit are "May-Day! May-Day! May-Day!"
OR
Don't get on the plane!!!
ALL of the materials and tools you need to become OT VIII and a top-shelf auditor are available to you without ever having to set one foot inside a Church of Scientology.
I strongly suggest you listen to that bit of fear you feel... You should be afraid. You should be very afraid.
Not of learning to Audit or getting Audited, but dealing with the CoS is not something to be taken lightly. Many destroyed lives lie in its' wake.
Best of Everything to You,
~Storm
I've been lurking here for sometime now, and what I can say for certain is this forum has a wide spectrum of viewpoints. Some are disaffected with Mr. Shudda-been-a-Miscarriage, some the church, or a smaller group within same (Sea Org, so on), some are disaffected with LRH, some believe the technology is a fraud, and others "totally done" with the whole mess. So, there are lots of perspectives to evaluate - this is a good thing, no?
Getting involved with Scientology is an airplane ride with one of three outcomes possible....
1) Jump with a Parachute: You have several hundred thousand dollars to spend just to check it out, don't care if it's 100% untrue (not saying it is untrue, just that you may end up thinking that in the end), and a super-human ability to say no over and over again to what in my opinion are probably the most persuasive individuals on the planet. They will never stop seeking every dime they can extract from you, and the longer you hang around, the more this will intensify. The trick to this method is to walk in, buy what you need to become a Classed Auditor and be audited to OT VIII, and ruthlessly claim "I'm flat broke" from there on out. You will need a strategy that involves a permanently discharged cell phone battery, Critical business meetings scheduled immediately following every course and session, and a willingness so spend each and every break hiding in a bathroom stall - fear not, you will still be accosted for money through the stall door. Hopefully, your chute will open and you will land on Earth safe and sound.
2) Jump without a Parachute:This method involves joining staff. You will want to be in a higher-org, one that can at least make clears and train auditors who can clear folks, Negotiate the best deal you can up front, something like "Class VIII Auditor for x number of years on staff".... Now, wad those years up and toss them away. Will you help people? Some will say you have helped them, yes. Will you help yourself? That's a toss up, depends a bit on how unhappy you are right now, and how well you are able to plan your "exit strategy". By that I mean, have you finished school so when you decide you're "done" you have a possibility of a career to turn to? Are you married, so you can afford to eat more than the average Ethiopian and have (dirty word alert) health insurance? Will your husband be happy with at best spending 1/2 a day per week with you? If all that is looking good, then I'd say you've got a very nice hay-stack to aim for... Take the Leap! Chances are, you will be in Ethics trouble shortly after joining staff, routed off of course, and end up selling books on the street for your x number of years. Your haystack will look very small, and very far away.
3) Wait for the Plane to Land: To successfully navigate this option you will need to remain in your seat and securely buckled in place. Here is where you will purchase services from the church as you can afford to, without neglecting other aspects of your life. This is highly frowned on. Odds of success are improved by 1) Bringing super-glue with you for the seat belt buckle. (2) Boarding the plane completely naked after having dumped a gallon of baby-oil over your skin, to lesson the possibility of anyone getting a grip. Make no mistake, should you choose this path EVERYONE on this ride will do everything they can possibly do to get you out of that chair and on to Option #1 or #2 above for the duration of the flight. You will not enjoy this. Worse still, this plane will never land. At this point in time, and barring an absolute miracle, Scientology is done for. The tactics the church has employed for 50 years are catching up, and the only TRUE words heard coming from the cockpit are "May-Day! May-Day! May-Day!"
OR
Don't get on the plane!!!
ALL of the materials and tools you need to become OT VIII and a top-shelf auditor are available to you without ever having to set one foot inside a Church of Scientology.
I strongly suggest you listen to that bit of fear you feel... You should be afraid. You should be very afraid.
Not of learning to Audit or getting Audited, but dealing with the CoS is not something to be taken lightly. Many destroyed lives lie in its' wake.
Best of Everything to You,
~Storm
Chloe
Patron
@PirateandBurn (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1084393&viewfull=1#post1084393),
Thanks for your post. Do you mean you think the tech is quite okay (with a flawed theory)?
I will check your suggestions!
@TheOriginalBigBlue (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1084421&viewfull=1#post1084421),
Yes, I still wonder if it is the same in Europe. Just another thing I was wondering about.. Are there not people who just stay at the local org (Is that the class IV org?)? They look (besides the asking for money) pretty harmless?
I like your Sopranos reference
Thanks for the KSW with the Doomsday reference.
I agree with you about that Scientologists are not Sociopaths. This remind me a bit of the 'Mental health'-thread that is now active.
@He-man, Thanks. I read some and some are indeed heartbreaking.. In some stories I think it's more bad parenting than 'bad Scientology'.
@Storm,
Thanks for your message. I agree with you that it is interesting that there are different perspectives. Thanks for your interesting plane-theory. I know that almost al the material can be found online. Do you still use the technology btw?
Thanks for your post. Do you mean you think the tech is quite okay (with a flawed theory)?
I will check your suggestions!
@TheOriginalBigBlue (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?41183-Hello-I-m-Chloe&p=1084421&viewfull=1#post1084421),
Yes, I still wonder if it is the same in Europe. Just another thing I was wondering about.. Are there not people who just stay at the local org (Is that the class IV org?)? They look (besides the asking for money) pretty harmless?
I like your Sopranos reference
- What is INT? I tried to google it..
Thanks for the KSW with the Doomsday reference.
I agree with you about that Scientologists are not Sociopaths. This remind me a bit of the 'Mental health'-thread that is now active.
@He-man, Thanks. I read some and some are indeed heartbreaking.. In some stories I think it's more bad parenting than 'bad Scientology'.
@Storm,
Thanks for your message. I agree with you that it is interesting that there are different perspectives. Thanks for your interesting plane-theory
. I know that almost al the material can be found online. Do you still use the technology btw?