I have a new opinion about Freezoners

Do as thou willst

God is just a Thetan with more powers fooling all us other Thetans

Something like that ? I mean the secret doctrine of Scientology ?

If Scientology is supposed to unlock these powers and makes Thetans more "Thetan-like", then why do people practicing Scientology allow themselves to be controlled by a batshit crazy totalitarian cult?

Why would Thetans ever subject themselves to the control mechanism Scientology calls "Ethics"?

It makes no sense, a Thetan would tell the cult to fuck-off, since he or she would recognize that Scientology is doing just the opposite, it is creating slaves not free beings.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
If Scientology is supposed to unlock these powers and makes Thetans more "Thetan-like", then why do people practicing Scientology allow themselves to be controlled by a batshit crazy totalitarian cult?

Why would Thetans ever subject themselves to the control mechanism Scientology calls "Ethics"?

It makes no sense, a Thetan would tell the cult to fuck-off, since he or she would recognize that Scientology is doing just the opposite, it is creating slaves not free beings.

Because Hubbard strayed from his original premmiss by building an Institution.

Well not his Premmiss, But crowleys and some psychology.


Free yourself through knowledge (of self and of life)

Knowledge is Power
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
If Scientology is supposed to unlock these powers and makes Thetans more "Thetan-like", then why do people practicing Scientology allow themselves to be controlled by a batshit crazy totalitarian cult?

Why would Thetans ever subject themselves to the control mechanism Scientology calls "Ethics"?

It makes no sense, a Thetan would tell the cult to fuck-off, since he or she would recognize that Scientology is doing just the opposite, it is creating slaves not free beings.

I think you've stated in a nutshell why so many people are critical of Scn as ology as well as of the cult.

I think that the promises of Scn aren't what they're cracked up to be but I tend to think that it does do something. I also think that every nice or helpful thing they do to benefit anyone as a spiritual being or for his or her emotional health or whatever else gets undone by the constant indoctrination and toxic practices one experiences.

It's a highly problematic thing. It's problematic because there are built in failiures in Scn theories, concepts and methods and it's also problematic because even if you didn't have those or didn't have quite so many, there're still pitfalls relevant to the human condition. Sometimes people really suck, even at the best of times. And when you get a flawed venue like Scn, it gets magnified.

Or so it seems to me.
 
I think you've stated in a nutshell why so many people are critical of Scn as ology as well as of the cult.

I think that the promises of Scn aren't what they're cracked up to be but I tend to think that it does do something. I also think that every nice or helpful thing they do to benefit anyone as a spiritual being or for his or her emotional health or whatever else gets undone by the constant indoctrination and toxic practices one experiences.

It's a highly problematic thing. It's problematic because there are built in failiures in Scn theories, concepts and methods and it's also problematic because even if you didn't have those or didn't have quite so many, there're still pitfalls relevant to the human condition. Sometimes people really suck, even at the best of times. And when you get a flawed venue like Scn, it gets magnified.

Or so it seems to me.
The only thing I've seen Scientology do is get people to stop focusing on everything that is important to them and focus on making more money to feed the cult, and if they can't make moire money then it pressures them into working directly for the cult as a slave. I've yet to see Scientology produce anything that has not been designed solely to benefit Scientology.
 

Chess

Patron with Honors
mmm, now I know why I accept my military training/attitude as a pretty good character reference I put it forward at times. It terminately settles a lot of opinions, maybes and when peoples tolerances of others fall below accepted levels of democratic acceptance, I still know disipline.
If anyone is left of this group in say, 12 months after the fall of Cof$ with the same developing attitude as this thread I wonder how dictorial it will be, shoot the FZer, arrest them, I wonder. Good one Emma... sow those seeds.
Same ol same ol - whatever you abide by, I wonder if you can see where it'll end. I sure hope you people don't play with guns or sharp objects.
I much prefer a sunny day. Don't you know what an enemy is, why make 'em in excess?
I am as intertested now as being a part of this group as I am being a member of the Church of Scientology. I truly don't care what someone gets up to as long as it doesn't involve those horrible things so many good people have sacrificed their lives for in the name of Freedom.
Oh, (yawn) you are so boring.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
mmm, now I know why I accept my military training/attitude as a pretty good character reference I put it forward at times. It terminately settles a lot of opinions, maybes and when peoples tolerances of others fall below accepted levels of democratic acceptance, I still know disipline.
If anyone is left of this group in say, 12 months after the fall of Cof$ with the same developing attitude as this thread I wonder how dictorial it will be, shoot the FZer, arrest them, I wonder. Good one Emma... sow those seeds.
Same ol same ol - whatever you abide by, I wonder if you can see where it'll end. I sure hope you people don't play with guns or sharp objects.
I much prefer a sunny day. Don't you know what an enemy is, why make 'em in excess?
I am as intertested now as being a part of this group as I am being a member of the Church of Scientology. I truly don't care what someone gets up to as long as it doesn't involve those horrible things so many good people have sacrificed their lives for in the name of Freedom.
Oh, (yawn) you are so boring.

Sorry Chess, I'm just not getting this. Where did I say shoot the FZer or arrest them?

It's just my opinion that its rather silly to continue to call yourself a Scientologist if you are no longer practising "Scientology" per KSW. I dunno what to call them, but per Hubbard's own definition they are not Scientologists.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Sorry Chess, I'm just not getting this. Where did I say shoot the FZer or arrest them?

It's just my opinion that its rather silly to continue to call yourself a Scientologist if you are no longer practising "Scientology" per KSW. I dunno what to call them, but per Hubbard's own definition they are not Scientologists.

So I'm not a scientologist?

KSW1 apart from all the weird instructions and "Now we're supposed to's"
is about making sure you do the right actions and know what you are doing.

Mainstream psychotherapists have what is probably a more stringent
set of guidelines to enable good results. Best I know is far more understandable than KSW 1.

I am a scientologist. I've posted here several times heavy duty
critiques of KSW 1.

Scn is a philosophy and a therapy tech. One might hope those involved do it right.

That the founder wrote many paranoid policies and so on is not really relevant.

Less you are a COS member.

I'm not.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
So I'm not a scientologist?

KSW1 apart from all the weird instructions and "Now we're supposed to's"
is about making sure you do the right actions and know what you are doing.

Mainstream psychotherapists have what is probably a more stringent
set of guidelines to enable good results. Best I know is far more understandable than KSW 1.

I am a scientologist. I've posted here several times heavy duty
critiques of KSW 1.

Scn is a philosophy and a therapy tech. One might hope those involved do it right.

That the founder wrote many paranoid policies and so on is not really relevant.

Less you are a COS member.

I'm not.


Sorry Terril, but per the founder of Scientology you are a suppressive squirrel, not a Scientologist

Not my opinion - HIS (Hubbard's)
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Sorry Chess, I'm just not getting this. Where did I say shoot the FZer or arrest them?

It's just my opinion that its rather silly to continue to call yourself a Scientologist if you are no longer practising "Scientology" per KSW. I dunno what to call them, but per Hubbard's own definition they are not Scientologists.

DM doesn't practice Scn per KSW, either. Neither do most staff since they are taking their orders from him.

All religions, ologies, churches, cults, etc, morph and change.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
mmm, now I know why I accept my military training/attitude as a pretty good character reference I put it forward at times. It terminately settles a lot of opinions, maybes and when peoples tolerances of others fall below accepted levels of democratic acceptance, I still know disipline.

So does my husband. He's ex military and his father fought at Normandy Beach in WWII. My husband is a Free Zoner and probably has more discipline and know how in his little finger than a lot of people I know have in their entirety.

If anyone is left of this group


What group? The FZ is a loose knit collection of various independent practitioners.

in say, 12 months after the fall of Cof$ with the same developing attitude as this thread I wonder how dictorial it will be, shoot the FZer, arrest them, I wonder. Good one Emma... sow those seeds.
Same ol same ol - whatever you abide by, I wonder if you can see where it'll end. I sure hope you people don't play with guns or sharp objects.
I much prefer a sunny day. Don't you know what an enemy is, why make 'em in excess?
I am as intertested now as being a part of this group as I am being a member of the Church of Scientology. I truly don't care what someone gets up to as long as it doesn't involve those horrible things so many good people have sacrificed their lives for in the name of Freedom.
Oh, (yawn) you are so boring.

So boring that you were inspired to write the above.
 

Veda

Sponsor
IMO, most Scientology Zoners do support 'KSW', but - when in the presence of wogs, raw meat, and ex-Scientologists - as an "acceptable truth," pretend that they do not.

Confusion arises from the inherent - built in - dishonesty of the doctrine of Scientology. Scientologists are the effect of this, without understanding it.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
The confusion arises because most Scientology Zoners do support 'KSW', but - when in the presence of wogs, raw meat, and ex-Scientologists - as an "acceptable truth", pretend that they do not.

KSW was a direct straying from the original premmis laid down in Dianetics.

Dianetics is about the individual, KSW about group.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
At the end of the day they can call themselves whatever the hell they like, whether it makes sense or not - I DON'T CARE. But I can still think it's stupid. I'm entitled to have that opinion.

You can argue your tongues off in circular logic why it's right etc, but at the end of the day you have to live with that label. I wouldn't want to but I'm not "you".
 

AnonKat

Crusader
new religion

At the end of the day they can call themselves whatever the hell they like, whether it makes sense or not - I DON'T CARE. But I can still think it's stupid. I'm entitled to have that opinion.

You can argue your tongues off in circular logic why it's right etc, but at the end of the day you have to live with that label. I wouldn't want to but I'm not "you".

I declare myself an Emma-ist
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
At the end of the day they can call themselves whatever the hell they like, whether it makes sense or not - I DON'T CARE. But I can still think it's stupid. I'm entitled to have that opinion.

You can argue your tongues off in circular logic why it's right etc, but at the end of the day you have to live with that label. I wouldn't want to but I'm not "you".

Well, any insistence on ideological labels is a bad idea, really. I found that out after years of work on myself.

But where I'm coming from is: that it's the same foolishness in CofS as in the FZ. They all squirrel, they all get label dependent, it's all the same. It's just that CofS folks are way meaner.
 
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