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I have a new opinion about Freezoners

Blame must be placed!

Terril park said:
??? Wasn't it Ems who got pissed off?
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That ain't the pernt, Turl! :no:

If you bleedin' lobsterback monarchists had stayed offen the North Am continent! :grouch:

We'd likely be eatin' Frog! :nervous:

Or wurst - bulls'd be runnin' wild on fiesta days! :ohmy:

And if that hyperactive Cap'n Cook had been plagued with terminal seasickness...:puke2: 'stead of muckin around chartin' everthin...:melodramatic:

Well, everythin souf of der e-crater mighta of remaint priss teen an unspoilt! :yes:

An da Baptists wood still be squabblin', breakin' off inter splinters and formin nu congree gations! :duh:

Happily, it's almost time fer a ration of rum her - and a comfort it is! :thumbsup:

EP is approaching! :coolwink:
 
Magoo said:
:iagree:

Having been called a LOT of yuckie names over the last 10
years---here's my two cents:

A) I don't believe calling anyone "Stupid" is smart or even wise, rant or no rant. This IS a public forum, and the least people can do, imnsho, is show some respect. I admit I've violated this, too, but I'm trying to work on it. :yes:

B) It's your Opinion, you say? Ok, so be it. I am not, nor have I ever been part of the FZ, but since the first week-when someone asked me to join, I told them "no thanks" but respected their right to believe whatever they want, as long as they're not harming others.

It is the C of $ that HAS to makes sure ALL think the way they think. My love of getting out of there IS that I
*can* think and speak my mind.

C) Also, having watched Greg and Debra Barnes (in 2000 they also left, and were OT 7's speaking out). They joined the now Late Alan Walter, got some auditing, and due to now being OUT---they were able to LOOK and again make up their own minds, WITH ~~all~~ the facts.

As they said then: "If we couldn't have ever gotten auditing, we wouldn't have left Scientology". That, to me,
is one of the greatest values of the FZ. People CAN get out,
get auditing or training as they choose, continue reading,
and as long as they're not harming others, assisting in breaking up families, using Fair Game, etc---I believe that's their choice. Soon after they both decided to let it all go, and that was IT for them.

The fact that Emma doesn't want a FZ "wins" section here on her board, that I understand. It's HER board. Calling them stupid, imnsho-isn't a wise idea, for many diff reasons.

Lastly, Knowing OSA
as I do from working with them as a volunteer---they LOVE to "Divide and conquer"--that IS
a key part of their Net work. What's the real product here?
Well, Dexter is leaving. That's not so good. Who knows who else will feel the same.

Were their "Wins" Harming others? If it's a legal matter, then just say so, vs. "they're stupid". If it's a personal point of view, again, calling others names is # 2 on the OSA Net program.

It's actually # 1 and #2.
1) Distract OFF of Scientology, (their hot, top secret things people post about) onto ANYTHING else. This works, for them, I'm sure. "Get the Critics Fighting amongst each other"--it IS one of OSA's biggest distractions. Does that mean we cannot disagree? Hell no. Of course we can. However, there's a huge difference in disagreeing and calling people names. Issues---not people--are what C of $ cannot face up to.

2) Degrade any and all critics people "in" may listen to.

Whether any one here likes the FZ or not---some people "in" do listen and read what those in the FZ say, as they are the closest fruits to the tree, for some.

I suggest re-considering. As someone else said: "I didn't even know there was a FZ section". I knew it was there, but due to the title, never spend one second reading it.

The biggest sword we, out of the "church" of $cientology, have is freedom: Freedom to speak our minds, freedom to rant (as Emma did--so fair enough), and freedom for people like me to disagree. We didn't have that choice while "in", despite it being pitched constantly that we did.
Here one can SEE Freedom of speech and thought IN ACTION. It IS one of the key things that helped me wake UP.

Hope you all are enjoying the start of the Holidays!
Here's something to bring a smile to your faces:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXh7JR9oKVE&feature=youtu.be

My best!
Tory/Magoo
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ESMB does not exist to bring down Scientology or to wake anyone up or to wield the sword of freedom (interesting concept).
We each make up our own reason to be here, my experience. Basing what someone should say here on the political concept of attacking the COS is as barren as being one of the insiders. Unless one is moving in the direction of why one joined in the first place, there will be other religions, people, ideas that get entered into without observing whether that step is a good idea or not. True freedom is to be as you damn well please no matter what anyone thinks about it and that "is" starts by being as you damn well please. My opinion.
 
I'm beginning to realize that, as with other things FZ-ish, I don't know what's going on.

But that's OK. I don't need to know.
 
Auditor's Toad said:
One of the first thins I hated the fuck out of in the Co$ was having to write a Success Story.

I had heard of Success Stories before but this was the first I ever heard of anybody making them mandatory.

I didn't read 'em when I was in so I haven't read 'em here. Sort of thought it was odd to have that section, but, what the hey, ain't my board.
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If there is one thing that you can guarantee will revolt practitioners of regulated/licensed mainstream therapies, it is the solicited/extracted testimonials that Scientology uses. It is seen as exploitation. Because that's what it is. Pure and simple.
 
Magoo said:
The fact that Emma doesn't want a FZ "wins" section here on her board, that I understand. It's HER board. Calling them stupid, imnsho-isn't a wise idea, for many diff reasons.

Lastly, Knowing OSA
as I do from working with them as a volunteer---they LOVE to "Divide and conquer"--that IS
a key part of their Net work. What's the real product here?
Well, Dexter is leaving. That's not so good. Who knows who else will feel the same.

Were their "Wins" Harming others? If it's a legal matter, then just say so, vs. "they're stupid". If it's a personal point of view, again, calling others names is # 2 on the OSA Net program.

It's actually # 1 and #2.
1) Distract OFF of Scientology, (their hot, top secret things people post about) onto ANYTHING else. This works, for them, I'm sure. "Get the Critics Fighting amongst each other"--it IS one of OSA's biggest distractions. Does that mean we cannot disagree? Hell no. Of course we can. However, there's a huge difference in disagreeing and calling people names. Issues---not people--are what C of $ cannot face up to.

2) Degrade any and all critics people "in" may listen to.

Whether any one here likes the FZ or not---some people "in" do listen and read what those in the FZ say, as they are the closest fruits to the tree, for some.
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Just snipped parts of Tory's posts above. Great post BTW!

I'm clearly committed to promoting the FZ. However I was a critic before becoming a freezoner. An remain a critic of CO$and DM. I have attended probably more protests than anyone, including the one where Tory and Mark
Bunker attended in London.

There is another aspect to this that a few have touched on. That there is a Freezone is a powerful force to bring people out of CO$. Possibly the most powerful. For myself I don't have the time or inclination to chase, reg or harry anyone who comes to our FZ forums. they want to stay, connect to an auditor, fine. They decide to no longer wish to continue with scn is no problem to me. I've at least let them know there is an alternative, or possibly given them a path to do other things.

Emma very recently requested to come to my FZ private forum admidst
a shit storm over the outing of TO. Another member here also brought up
a thread where Emma trashed Pierre Ethier. [ Carmelo Orchards ]

I was accused by Emma of being indiscreet re private comm on this.
I've brought up the point that Emma and Tansy happily brought up private comm from Pierre to trash him. See Tansy' post from quite a while back
below, and have had no response as yet. But fucked if I know the difference between Oz and UK time. Best I know is that the only private comm I violated is that I referred to Tansys " girlfriend" as opposed to what he says below is a close friend. I'd like to comment that a guy as handsome, cool and funny as Tansy is unlikely to be long without a GF!

This is what sparked Emma to make her post attacking the FZ.

Note that I was defending a friend and the highest trained FZ auditor out there. On my own pro tech forum.

Also note that I'm quite positive Tansys comments re Pierre are true. I
have had similar communications with Pierre.

However I'm curios as to why it was Tansy phoning Pierre on this matter and not his client. And also what agreement between Pierre and client there was. By tghe hour or for the service? probably not so important nowe, but this is what promted Emma to post what she did.

I should add that Emma and carmelo Orchards are for me something
like Kha Khans. Tansy could be but I havn't had that much interaction with him. From his posts and a skype call I consider him a wonderful, guy.


------------
I don't read ESMB or post here any more but occasionally old friends bring items to my attention. Ii this case I felt a responsibility to tell a little of my dealings with Pierre Ethier.

As far as delivery of the tech is concerned I have no problems with him. He delivered what was promised (not to me but to a close friend).

However, we have had a financial dispute. I approached him merely to get his viewpoint. I was calm and business-like but certainly not unfriendly. Frankly, I was amazed by his response.

He accused me of being an OSA operative/plant. He spoke in a very agitated manner. His TRs were all over the place. He got very angry. I had previously had auditing from a former associate of his and he referred to this person as "my sworn enemy". A kind person might accuse him of being melodramatic; others might view this behaviour along the lines of paranoia.

He hung up on me and refused to take any more of my calls. At no time did I accuse him of any dishonesty or make demands - I requested a pro rata repayment for services unused, which he refused. Ironically, this is something I did manage to get from the "Church".

At the end of the day he recalled a very different version of our financial arrangement to the one I believed we had agreed upon. There's no reason anyone here should take my word over his. I would just like to advise anyone considering taking services with him to get an explicit agreement of the financial and delivery arrangements before going ahead.

Best wishes to all,

Tansy
 
Magoo,

It's nice to see you advocating against calling FZers stupid. I think you and I can both remember posts on another forum where a LOT of name calling happened. A lot. I'm glad to see that you've had some new thoughts about it.
 
This post (190) strikes me as a bit disingenuous. If you are blase about whether people join the FZ then why the parade of Success Stories and other FZ atrocities (just kidding) on ESMB?

The PR nature of the post below, slathering compliments on Tansy and Em, bangs out a false note as well. Your presence on the board is virtually 100 percent PR so far as I'm concerned, without operative interest in understanding or improvement except with regard to FZ interests. At least that's what I see. It takes a bit of grime to build an engine and you keep yourself at least artificially clean.

I suppose its because you have something to sell. I don't care if you do, in fact I would keep everyone but obvious trolls on the board. Why not? It has worked so far. But selling can mean the smile can never fade.

That smile, that smirk, of knowing best, is what gets folks, FYI,.being an auditor instead of a person. Or maybe, you are attracting folks who still fall for that act. Ah, well, the more the merrier.
 
Well, wait a minute, Nexxy. You'd probably have something to say if someone were to DISS Ems and Tansy. So it's going to be disingenuous if a compliment is paid? Sounds like a no win situation.

Most FZers I know, including Terril, regard Emma quite highly. I've heard them say as much. Terril has TOLD me flat out that he really respects Emma. He's told me that on multiple occasions. So when I see a post where he compliments her, I take it as sincerity. You may not, but like I said, if Terril had DISSED her, I doubt that this would have sat well with you.
 
Terril, If you can think of a better name than "stupid" for your last post them I'm all ears.

You say that it was was the posting of information concerning my husband on your FZ board that pissed me off. (It was far more than that but that was part of it).

So what do you do? You go and post it here on ESMB! Did you think this would make it better?

It wasn't so much whether Tansy had posted information before or not it was that you were dragging it up again, for folks who in all likelihood had never read Ian's posts, on a board he never posts on and can't comment on. I was also concerned for the other person involved who can't comment either.

So what do you do? Post it AGAIN on my board.

FFS. :no:
 
Voltaire's Child said:
Well, wait a minute, Nexxy. You'd probably have something to say if someone were to DISS Ems and Tansy. So it's going to be disingenuous if a compliment is paid? Sounds like a no win situation.

Most FZers I know, including Terril, regard Emma quite highly. I've heard them say as much. Terril has TOLD me flat out that he really respects Emma. He's told me that on multiple occasions. So when I see a post where he compliments her, I take it as sincerity. You may not, but like I said, if Terril had DISSED her, I doubt that this would have sat well with you.
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Thank you again for your example of applied sophistry.
 
Emma said:
No doubt this will polarize ESMB <snip>.
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I don't know about anyone else but I can't see that! :hysterical:

Someone pointed out that OSA would be laughing at the critics splitting.
What a joke. Does anyone really care what OSA thinks? And as for laughing, it would only be amongst themselves and that is really incestuous. :duh:

The beauty of the real world is that we are FREE to disagree, argue, have hissy fits and generally communicate in any way we like.

Personally I think that some of us have probably over reacted and the result of the change is so minor as to have no affect at all in the long run.

Let's all kiss Emma and make up. :yes:

D.
 
Terril park said:
... I was accused by Emma of being indiscreet re private comm on this. ...
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It isn't just Emma saying you are indiscreet, BB. Remember someone recently telling you publicly on your own board ....

Put A Sock In IT!

:duh:


Your sweet. I love you. You've the discretion of a 3 year old.


Mark A. Baker :yes:
 
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