I really don't get it

[themanwithnoface]

Thanks for all the responses, it's been very interesting. So there are some gains to be had early on then?. I'd previously read many stories in which the person was faking the benefits most of the time because they felt a pressure to in order keep a family member or close friend happy. Maybe someone reading this has experienced this happening?. I've heard that many of the ideas in Dianetics have been lifted right out of other religious/philosophical ideas. Could it be that the stuff that works is the stuff that was stolen? just a thought

 

[R6Basic]

stolen = works..

That is a popular opinion. I read a post that the whole of study tech was taken from a group of teachers that visited Saint Hill.

But I've always maintained, even when in Scn., that its easy to take some one who never really thought about life or if anything can be done about anything and put them on a course that is suppose to help them w/ their life.. and bingo! they get happier and have some big win...

Some of this may be placebo some real.

 

[Enthetan]

why is that there appears to be a lot of ex scientologists that have left the church but still seem to have an attitude that scientology is still right, the management is just wrong and ruining what L.ron started,

Why are there Marxists who agree that the Soviet Union was a horror, but think that with new management perhaps Communism could be made to work?

There are people who have invested far too much of their lives in Scientology to concede that it's unworkable.

 

[Enthetan]

My spouse was fully cured of a lifelong food allergy in the first ten minutes of the first auditing she received (for free). I did the comm course and my general ability to resolve the issues in my life immediately improved. No doubt about it.

We are now very much out and don't want to return ever. Yet the initial results were right in our faces. The intial results really pulled me in. There were other elements that could be attributed to what any group could have done (this group was cool, smart, young, fun, full of energy and offered a lot of hope to me--a distinct difference from the folks I was hanging out with at the time.)

I suggest you focus on what procedures worked, what got results and you might find yourself in the middle of a great discovery. You have to realize that if Hubbard wasn't such a paranoid narcissist and had provided a more viable and open framework to the group, a great many more people would still be happily in. If you can find a way to integrate the successes of Scientology with a more open approach, well, there's potential there. The Freezone guys might be able to help, but I don't know them that well. Look at the results of the Power processes back in the sixties.

You'll find a number of exes who can testify that some really cool stuff happened. People weren't selling their houses or raiding their retirement funds because of pressure. They typically felt great after being audited, ready to take on the world.

The skunk at the picnic was always the heavy pressure for donations of time and money and absolute belief that Hubbard was a god. Most of us exes were abused and cheated and lied to and had a big piece of our lives stolen. Try to read past that if you're interested in what worked.

Like you said: The initial wins were big.

It's like smoking crack. The euphoria of the initial wins hook you into the life, and you put up with loads of shit to get a high that is less and less satisfying.

Those who experience big initial wins stick around, and are increasingly abused by the system, just like crack whores.

 

[Student of Trinity]

The fact is that there are a lot of relatively simple things most people can do to improve their lives, if they get the confidence to try them. So although I've never experienced any Scientology 'tech' myself, so far in a fair amount of reading and lurking online hearing stories, I haven't heard of anything that sounds more impressive in Scientology than stuff you can get from much less expensive and oppressive sources.

 

[Winston Smith]

From my perspective, the time I wasted running around the org as staff could have been much more wisely used. The org didn't give a hoot about me, it only wanted that I solved problems other people were having--nothing really to do with Scn even. I made much more money as a bus boy/waiter before staff, and just closed my eyes to the $20 a week they handed me. Thankfully I blew and was able to build a real life. I count myself as one of the luckiest guys in the world for that.

I suppose auditing has its allure, but if you sense a trap your intuition is sharp. Kind of like bait and switch. They give you a little win with the comm course, and then come down on you like a ton of bricks with absolutely wacky stuff (that staff mindlessly swallowed whole.)

Never trust a Scientologist... run away as fast as you can.

 

[Anonycat]

Hello,
Im new to this forum, and not a former scientologist. I have been pretty much obsessed with scientology for the last year, both by the genius of how this scam was put together and also by the amount of dedication scientologists seem to give to the organisation. Oddly enough also, it also seemed kind of appealing at first. My question is this to all your ex's, why is that there appears to be a lot of ex scientologists that have left the church but still seem to have an attitude that scientology is still right, the management is just wrong and ruining what L.ron started, it seems to me that its an outright scam and any real benefit from it is some kind of placebo effect, can someone explain this to me?. Oh and hi to all you guys too

Welcome!

I have only my personal answer to your query.

It starts with a combination of the "make a friend" process, which is typically used in sales, and there is Love Bombing by the staff. I was assigned a handler who would give me rides to the cult, call me to keep me there as much as possible, and in the context of finishing my course, but I suspect to remove me from my world of friends and family as well. She was very friendly.

This might help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBK5aKOr2Fw

Then, you learn the lingo - a combination of made-up words and also English words that had new or altered meanings. There are also abbreviations to learn. Now you know the secret language. You are becoming special, and aligned with the sanest place on the planet - your local Scientology organisation.

It's right about here that the pressure to pre-pay for courses starts. Questions are asked, such as: "Do you have any family or friends who do not support your being in Scientology?" The "us & them" concept is reinforced. You are now in a cult. What your next move is, depends on your inner voice.

Funny you should mention the placebo effect. I was talking to an ex-staff person about a week ago, and I summarized that this is exactly what clients were calling "wins". They agreed, and said "what wrong with that?". I said yes, placebo effect helps many people in many ways. Believe in spoon-bending to get your confidence up! There are no actual spoon-benders, but if it helps you, have at it. Believe. I feel it is just that for those who still think that OT is possible. That's just my opinion, after many years of observation.


I hope that was helpful

Cheers,
'Cat

 

[Boojuum]

From my perspective, the time I wasted running around the org as staff could have been much more wisely used. The org didn't give a hoot about me, it only wanted that I solved problems other people were having--nothing really to do with Scn even. I made much more money as a bus boy/waiter before staff, and just closed my eyes to the $20 a week they handed me. Thankfully I blew and was able to build a real life. I count myself as one of the luckiest guys in the world for that.

Amen WS.

I was on this really stupid scio course once and I thought that if we'd taken all the students in the class and taught them a trade like plumbing or nursing or even a new language, the time would have been much better spent. The shear hours devoted to TR's or letter writing or promo for example was 99% (at least) a complete waste of energy. Look at the hours spent in the org! If we were studying ? university subjects we'd all have had phd's by now and have some idea of what we were talking about.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

There are some genuine benefits to be obtained from auditing, real blow-your-socks-off WOW! benefits.

This precisely answers the question of the OP. Much of scientology tech is extremely useful for enhancing individual spiritual awareness.

The principle area of dispute with the church lies effectively in how this is & has been used. The Co$ routinely misuses this tech. The whys & wherefores make for the sort of complicated arguments that occur on those occasions when scientologists & former scientologists are engaged in mutual open discourse. All of this is effectively to the good, yet the fundamental truth is much of the tech works as a great benefit for people.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

I just wish that Marty and Mike would get off the Methodone because if they did they would be some awsome opponents to Scn.

This is exactly the same attitude, although reversed in objective, found among the loyal membership of the Co$.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Lohan2008]

What he said

I think the answer is that you just invested a year into the cult. Many of of us and our families invested several decades to this. It's just hard to admit, not just that you are a plonka, but that your family are also idiots. It's very hard to realise that you spent years undernourished and in poverty to help mankind and all you got were rotten teeth and thinner. Mankind of course received no benefit from your sleepless nights, destroyed family relations and fatally low self esteem..

=^.^= This =^.^=

 

[Snow White]

My Parents

As the daughter of one parent who thinks the whole thing was a massive scam and one parent who still thinks there were some very valuable parts of the tech, I have thought about this as well. The thing is, I think it's hard for someone outside of this to really understand what an intense realization it is that the past 20+ years of your life have been for nothing. It's like finding out your whole life has been a dream. Your friends, your job, your beliefs. . . they are all about Co$. So it's only natural that you want to find some way to salvage some of it. Some way that maybe it wasn't ENTIRELY a waste. That feels MUCH better than facing the alternative. One of my parents was able to swallow that big pill and say it was all a hideous waste. The other could only handle half the pill.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

The fact is that there are a lot of relatively simple things most people can do to improve their lives, if they get the confidence to try them. So although I've never experienced any Scientology 'tech' myself, so far in a fair amount of reading and lurking online hearing stories, I haven't heard of anything that sounds more impressive in Scientology than stuff you can get from much less expensive and oppressive sources.

Except that the Scientology techniques (that those who believe they are helpful) are not identical to the other things that a person can do to improve his or her life. They are additional, different, etc.

To use your analogy, just because some people felt better after having been born again in a Christian church or did some meditation, then they wouldn't need to get therapeutic massage, vitamins, psychoanalysis- any number of other things. Obviously that's not true.

 

[Lurker5]

Wow

As the daughter of one parent who thinks the whole thing was a massive scam and one parent who still thinks there were some very valuable parts of the tech, I have thought about this as well. The thing is, I think it's hard for someone outside of this to really understand what an intense realization it is that the past 20+ years of your life have been for nothing. It's like finding out your whole life has been a dream. Your friends, your job, your beliefs. . . they are all about Co$. So it's only natural that you want to find some way to salvage some of it. Some way that maybe it wasn't ENTIRELY a waste. That feels MUCH better than facing the alternative. One of my parents was able to swallow that big pill and say it was all a hideous waste. The other could only handle half the pill.

Seriously, WOW - to a very smart 'kid' . . .

 

[OHTEEATE]

Wins and Losses

Why did we get in and stay in? Scientology delivered some very high priced spiritual insights to some of us. Those wins were in some cases, spectacular. When I recount these, some people say I am delusional; that I imagined them or that I was hallucinating or was hypnotised. These people say it is a scam all the way. Then there are those who want it all back, with no tyrant at the top. It would still be expensive, and badly in need of reform. I got out after 34 years in, and now about 35 members of my family will not speak to me because I "attacked the Church". I am living just fine without Scientology. Too bad it requires my family to shun me. L. Ron Hubbard, at the very least, was not what he said he was, for large periods of his life. He wanted fame very badly. It came about that he became both famous and infamous. The CofS is dangerous, as it would actually condone culling the herd of humanity. Of anyone it deemed anti-social.

 

[FinallyFree]

Hello,
Im new to this forum, and not a former scientologist. I have been pretty much obsessed with scientology for the last year, both by the genius of how this scam was put together and also by the amount of dedication scientologists seem to give to the organisation. Oddly enough also, it also seemed kind of appealing at first. My question is this to all your ex's, why is that there appears to be a lot of ex scientologists that have left the church but still seem to have an attitude that scientology is still right, the management is just wrong and ruining what L.ron started, it seems to me that its an outright scam and any real benefit from it is some kind of placebo effect, can someone explain this to me?. Oh and hi to all you guys too

hello to you too.... the kool-aide is thick. That is all I have to say.

 

[Smilla]

It is applied in layers. Some common sense stuff. Then some ego boosting. Then a bit more common sense stuff. Then a grain of mystery. Then some ego boosting. Then some science fiction. Then some ego boosting. Layer after layer, until you give up your original good sense, and think you're special.

 

[tiptoethrutheminefield]

This precisely answers the question of the OP. Much of scientology tech is extremely useful for enhancing individual spiritual awareness.


Mark A. Baker

Can you prove that? Can you show how "enhanced spiritual awareness" has any efficacy in what we call real life?

 

[SweetnessandLight]

And not just you!

It is applied in layers. Some common sense stuff. Then some ego boosting. Then a bit more common sense stuff. Then a grain of mystery. Then some ego boosting. Then some science fiction. Then some ego boosting. Layer after layer, until you give up your original good sense, and think you're special.

Well honey, you ARE special...but not because of Scientology!

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Can you prove that? Can you show how "enhanced spiritual awareness" has any efficacy in what we call real life?

Well, wait a minute. Would you say that to a Christian mystic, or a follower of the 8 fold path, or a Buddhist?