Is change possible?

[Arthur Dent]

We are all a conglomerate of body thetans, just kidding. We are all a conglomerate of ideas and actions coming from somewhere... from how we were taught to hold our fork or tie our shoes, to mannerisms we adopted in second grade from some other kid we idolized for something or other - or a villain we liked! Or, from some idea a teacher impressed us with, or a novel, etc., etc. Scientology tries to run all that out but, really, it just can't.

We're not born with every thought and idea in place. We make up or adopt behaviors, ways of thinking, patterns, habits, and ideas, on purpose or not, as we go along. So, if you change who you hang with and what you expose yourself to and are changing that for the better through your life, well, then you are changing -- and learning. I know I'm not the same person I was five years ago.

In scn. you are working with very set parameters so the change can only be measured by those. And measured, they are, at every turn. For a group that condemns evaluation of people, it is all they do. But it is meaningless as it is oh, so limited. Being defined by how well you can fit in a box made by someone else is not a formula for real change and growth. Maybe the possibilities for change aren't endless but you have to believe they are to expand as much as you are able. Am I open-minded? lol

 

[Techless]

Here is CO$ version of POETRY and MUSIC-I think this has the class and look and meaning of CO$:
HERE

Oh thanks - now this Trololo video is gonna cause untold damage/change...and NIGHTMARES!!! I want to stick knitting needles in my ears and gouge out my eyeballs.

Must be that Ron RC Cola guy again who keeps haunting my tiny shred of sanity.

Just where did that evil come from???

 

[Commander Birdsong]

the sort of change most readily available is getting someone out of an artificially lowered condition

again...

i've often, in 15 minutes or less with simple 2WC gotten someone from next door to suicidal back into such good spirits they have forgotten how badly bummed they ere when they ran into me

and this can be awfully big because you can defuse a looming "nervous breakdown"

in all my life no one has ever had a "nervous breakdown" in my immediate environment

not one

ever

and i live my life right here down and dirty where people who get knocked down get knocked to...


but...

change to a new and higher level is a lot tougher and dangerous as well. a person with fine potential is at risk of destroying their own potential and being left in worse condition than they started...

and this is so in all systems...

theoretically, well played, dianetics has the best safety net...

 

[Udarnik]

Oh thanks - now this Trololo video is gonna cause untold damage/change...and NIGHTMARES!!! I want to stick knitting needles in my ears and gouge out my eyeballs.

Must be that Ron RC Cola guy again who keeps haunting my tiny shred of sanity.

Just where did that evil come from???

The USSR, of course.

This dude wrote the music and got into an argument with the lyricist, who claimed that the lyrics were more important than the music. So he recorded his meolody to nonsense syllables to settle the argument.

I think he did, but he lost.

 

[Claire Swazey]

I think a lot of people who got into scn or other practices, wanted to change something in their lives.

As the years went by, I've seen people get up the bridge yet never changed. The shit-kicker OT 7 is still abusive at controlling bodies but now has an added "purpose/excuse" to his abuse of "saving" the planet, the OT 8 who is still very narcissistic and out-exchange (never paid a dime for her own bridge) and now is more entitled and demanding because of her status, and another who is still very 1.1.

I've also seen this happen in another practice where a person was in for 20+ years with no change.

The only time I've seen change was where people, who were raised/conditioned in an abusive or criminal environment, were removed from that environment or re-educated to different ways of living. But this is not really a change in him but a return to what he was to begin with.

I've seen a past drug dealer who by force and threat changed. But if this was not in place, I'm not sure he would have changed his actions.

Is real change possible?

Real change in an individual is always possible, whether for good or bad. But it isn't easy, particularly if it's a major change.

To me, it's not so much about the impetus or stimulus that prompted the change. It's about the person and his or her decision to do so and to really have the decision be honest and to follow through on it as often as needed.

Ever talk to someone who quit smoking or quit drinking or using drugs? Sometimes they were impelled by an intervention or the doctor told them they'll die if they don't knock it off or something. But sometimes they just thought about, hey, I want to see my kids graduate. Hey, I think that I don't want to do this anymore. Some stop and never start again. Some start again. Some of them don't stop.

I have a family member who has quit smoking multiple times. Always starts again. We talked about it and he said "i like smoking" (then came a joke about LRH and Kools). That's the thing. The guy likes it. So he has not and probably never will make a decision to change. He has no reason to do so, as far as he's concerned.

There are lots of books about/by ex culties. Not just ex Scn (though lots of good ones and many posts here about those who changed their minds)- lots of FLDS ones, for example, which I think is awesome. The things that woke 'em up varied. But in each case, they made the decision to question their beliefs and to make a new life for themselves.

We always have free will.

I mean, take people who were raised in very bad environments. Some become criminals but some don't. Some of the criminals are just petty criminals whereas others turn to murder and other violent crimes. There are people who had it far worse than others, yet managed to keep from hurting people.

Our lives shape us, yes. But given ten people with similar circumstances, you won't see just one lifestyle. That's because of individuality and free will.

I'll close this with a joke (not to mock- it's just for some levity and humor)

"How many psychiatrists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?"

"One. But the lightbulb has to want to change."

 

[Dave B.]

Of course it's possible. Sometimes people will take the path of least resistance because that's all they know. They think it's too hard to change or it's too overwhelming. Or it's too scary because of the "unknown". Or sometimes people just aren't ready to change. They have to go through whatever it is they're going through. Could be lots of reasons. It's hard.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

We are all a conglomerate of body thetans, just kidding. We are all a conglomerate of ideas and actions coming from somewhere... from how we were taught to hold our fork or tie our shoes, to mannerisms we adopted in second grade from some other kid we idolized for something or other - or a villain we liked! Or, from some idea a teacher impressed us with, or a novel, etc., etc. Scientology tries to run all that out but, really, it just can't.

We're not born with every thought and idea in place. We make up or adopt behaviors, ways of thinking, patterns, habits, and ideas, on purpose or not, as we go along. So, if you change who you hang with and what you expose yourself to and are changing that for the better through your life, well, then you are changing -- and learning. I know I'm not the same person I was five years ago.

In scn. you are working with very set parameters so the change can only be measured by those. And measured, they are, at every turn. For a group that condemns evaluation of people, it is all they do. But it is meaningless as it is oh, so limited. Being defined by how well you can fit in a box made by someone else is not a formula for real change and growth. Maybe the possibilities for change aren't endless but you have to believe they are to expand as much as you are able. Am I open-minded? lol

LOL!!!

i have rarely been so invalidated as i was in CoS...

they were down on everything i loved

and yet...

it wasn't an unhealthy inval, it was just placing blinders on me to hold attention to the subject at hand

but...

ZAP COMIX FOREVER!!!

 

[renegade]

I think when people see truth that is so innate to them it blows away the lies they were taught. It can change their outer life a lot. But I don't consider this as real change but an uncovering of their original core beliefs. It's like recovering your true self or going Home to what you already were.

I think about the Milgram experiment and how those college students were influenced to become so cruel. Does anyone know if they remained "evil" after the experiment?

I keep hearing that a Psychopath or Narcissist can't change. Maybe that's their core truth. But how is that any different than changing a Good Hearted person to become an abusive SO member and after he escapes, he becomes good again?

I guess I mean a real change in a person's character traits, or his intrinsic essence or truths and not under any force or coercion.

 

[Alle G]

I think when people see truth that is so innate to them it blows away the lies they were taught. It can change their outer life a lot. But I don't consider this as real change but an uncovering of their original core beliefs. It's like recovering your true self or going Home to what you already were.

I think about the Milgram experiment and how those college students were influenced to become so cruel. Does anyone know if they remained "evil" after the experiment?

I keep hearing that a Psychopath or Narcissist can't change. Maybe that's their core truth. But how is that any different than changing a Good Hearted person to become an abusive SO member and after he escapes, he becomes good again?

I guess I mean a real change in a person's character traits, or his intrinsic essence or truths and not under any force or coercion.

This woman Diane Benscoter (on TED talk thread) was changed to a fanatic in one week, then back to normal after 5 years, was deprogrammed. Unbelievable.