Just Bill nails it again.

[Feral]

Also, the reason I brought up Jeff's blog is not that he is an Indie but the Indie's are welcome and do, often, come there and for the most part behave quite nicely.

Jeff's created something that some of us here wanted to create. He is very moderate and will tollerate all comers.

ESMB tends to be a *bit* polarized for that. Ems pointed out why to me; As someone departs from the cult they run an emotional gamut (previously known as the tone scale) and at some point the weight of the betrayal hits them and they go through a rage.

I've found the depending on the person they either throw out the whole subject holus-bolus or start picking through it for the raisins.

With many people going through this process it becomes a hard place for polite discussion, sometimes.

The Indies I thought Bill was referring to (unspecified for reasons of personal safety) are yet to begin this process but they all will, one day.

 

[VaD]

I consider this discussion between Feral and Synthia very valuable.

What should one read and stick to:
Just Bill's blog?
Jeff's blog?
or Marty's blog?

To me, none of them.
Yet, every one of them has its value at some stage of leaving the cult.

1. Marty's blog is valuable for those who have just dared to discover the dark side of Scn, and still believe LRH was good. To them, the Why is of course would be DM, and only DM.

2. Jeff's blog gives more viewpoints at what life outside of Scientology is all about (including critical thinking skills needed for anyone not to get involved into any kind of cult in the future). He doesn't say that LRH is "this or that", or Scientology (as philosophy and technlogy) is "this or that". He lets you decide for yourself. I think it's only wise.

3. Just Bill's blog tells what scientology REALLY is (as opposed to what Scientologists are made to believe). This blog is the most direct and uncompromising as to the world as it is VS. Scientologists (or Indies, or Exes) beliefs of what it is.
Just Bill cuts it to the core.

I would recommend newly-outs this sequence (1 > 2 > 3)

Yet, there are things about LRH, CoS, and Scientology that none of those blogs fully cover.
So lurking moar is always better than not lurking and getting "cultified" (like those on Marty's blog who don't want to look moar and further than what Marty and his devoted posters provide. Jim Logan as his best devotee)

 

[SomeGuy]

There is a question here (perhaps a forest through the trees observation) and this thread seems an appropriate place to ask it. If not I'd be happy to start a new thread.

I understand the just bill perspective clearly as a not ever scientologists it's always looked like a clever pyramid scheme wrapped into a nice cult blanket to me.

Having said that I'm curious as to why the "independent/freezone" scientologists allow the argument of how scientology should be viewed by others.

Wouldn't it be simpler for marty and his ilk to declare "This is what scientology is" and go on with their mission of delivering it. Does it always require an enemy. I mean if they just ignored DM and the structure he's built and go on about scientology as they view it would it not make more sense?

I think that because they don't it shows what their motivations might be. Why on earth would you want to take over a corrupt organization when there is nothing stopping you from starting without that corruption.

It's just a thought, probably not articulated fully on my part but I thought it had relevance to this thread.

 

[Sindy]

........I've found the depending on the person they either throw out the whole subject holus-bolus or start picking through it for the raisins.....

Just for the record, while we're on the topic, I myself found that the yummy Raisin Bran I used to eat had slimy rotten maggots in it so even though I'd like to pick out some raisins from time to time, I really don't know how to separate them from the maggots and I just can't get that taste out of my mouth.

 

[Feral]

Just for the record, while we're on the topic, I myself found that the yummy Raisin Bran I used to eat had slimy rotten maggots in it so even though I'd like to pick out some raisins from time to time, I really don't know how to separate them from the maggots and I just can't get that taste out of my mouth.

My wife, Mrs Pattycake, is the same, me, I like to rummage, sift, sort and think.

 

[Sindy]

....me, I like to rummage, sift, sort and think.

I might get there at some point and I might not. I am open to it though. I would actually like to but right now, it doesn't feel healthy.

 

[VaD]

Wouldn't it be simpler for marty and his ilk to declare "This is what scientology is" and go on with their mission of delivering it. Does it always require an enemy. I mean if they just ignored DM and the structure he's built and go on about scientology as they view it would it not make more sense?

I think that because they don't it shows what their motivations might be. Why on earth would you want to take over a corrupt organization when there is nothing stopping you from starting without that corruption.

It's just a thought, probably not articulated fully on my part but I thought it had relevance to this thread.

Good point!
Seems that Scn'sts have to have some enemies to "rise above the bank as a group and get into action". Otherwise, (they feel ) it won't get them anywhere.
Marty knows it very well. In fact, he is indoctrinated (I dare say, brainwashed) with that idea.
He can't help but follow "what LRH says"...

 

[Commander Birdsong]

another county heard from

Hubbard spent decades lying about what he was actually doing and about what Scientology actually was. Is it surprising that there's confusion amongst the faithful once the umbilical cord to the Org is broken and they are left to wander?

Hate? Accusing others of "hate" and being "haters" is not just a substitute for "SP" - since the folks using "haters" as a term of classification also use the term "SP," although not so much when around outsiders and "wogs." The accusation of "hate," "bigotry," etc. and the classification of others as "haters" and "bigots," etc., is also an application of Scientology Propaganda Tech (a confidential part of its PR tech).

In the confidential issue 'Battle Tactics', Hubbard instructs Scientologists on how to manipulate public opinion:

"The only safe public opinion to head for is they love us and are in a frenzy of hate against the enemy, that means standard wartime propaganda is what one is doing... Know the mores of your public opinion, what they hate. [In this case, at this time, public opinion hates "hate" and "haters" and also "bigotry" and "bigots."] That's [to be identified with] the enemy. What they [the public] love. That's you."

These days calling someone a "hater" or a "bigot" is comparable to calling someone a "communist" in the 1950s. And Hubbard certainly did that a lot.

Same old same old.

Speaking of same old same old, the term Scientology Independent or Independent Scientology has been around since the early 1980s. It fell out of use as people deprogrammed themselves from Scientology. Now it's back, and they even have a symbol. What is it again? A twisted rubber band, five times the size of Earth - something like that...

right. that thing from "battle tactics" sucks. jawohl! jawohl! and it's a drag seeing marty leaning off in that direction.

however...

commander birdsong does still hold the primary principles of dianetics and auditing to be sound wholesome and effective. cheers to those indies practicing in accord with the usual template of judeochristian civilization and the ways of free men and women.

 

[Veda]

right. that thing from "battle tactics" sucks. jawohl! jawohl! and it's a drag seeing marty leaning off in that direction.

however...

commander birdsong does still hold the primary principles of dianetics and auditing to be sound wholesome and effective. cheers to those indies practicing in accord with the usual template of judeochristian civilization and the ways of free men and women.

By all means, but how many of those indies are up to the task of confronting the template of the doctrine of Scientology http://warrior.xenu.ca/Brainwashing-front.jpg, as placed there by its founder (in the 1960s and 1970s), and up to the task of acknowledging its founder as having been responsible for doing so?

IMO, very few - if any.

Excerpted from the Addendum section of L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman?, 2nd and 3rd editions. This is the shortened version that appears in Brainwashing Manual Parallels in Scientology:

The Scientological Onion http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105

Scientology could be described as a "layers of the onion" operation.

The outermost layer of the "Scientological Onion" is not identifiable with Scientology at all, being composed of front groups that conceal their connection to -and control by - the Scientology organization. Front groups might be said to constitute Layer Zero: a place where the tentacles of Scientology can grope incognito.

The first layer of the Scientological Onion is meant to be very visible...

Layer One includes Scientology's pampered clique of celebrities, and various public relations ploys. It reverberates with noble sounding sentiments about creating a better world. Scientology seeks to equate itself, and its founder, with anything broadly viewed as desirable or good. A little further along, this layer would include introductory courses with the stated aim of "knowing oneself" and "being free."

Here exist the potentially beneficial aspects of the many masked Scientology operation. The tragedy of Scientology is that the "positives" are used as "window dressing" and "bait on the hook," when they should have been the core and foundation. Thus the Scientology organization reeks of hypocrisy.

Also, at this much publicized layer, L. Ron Hubbard is presented as an engineer, war hero, nuclear physicist, and the "greatest humanitarian of all time," and the author of "22 best sellers with more to come."

The "first layer" is what Scientology wishes the outside world to know as Scientology. And it is essentially what new converts to the "movement" believe.

It includes most of what is good in the subject: The dream of peace on Earth, the desire to help, practical wisdom, civilized communication, and some potentially beneficial counseling procedures. The word freedom is used a great deal at this layer, and a heart felt desire for greater personal freedom, and freedom for all Mankind, is not unusual to new recruits to Scientology.

(Any inconsistencies or contradictions between the publicly stated aims of the movement, and actual practices or facts, become irrelevant as the individual becomes subject to the Dark Side of Scientology. And the deeper one descends into the "onion" the darker it gets.)

Descending into the "onion" it is necessary to become a Scientologist. This means thinking like a Scientologist. This is the Second Layer where deception eases into "soft" forms of mind-manipulation. Love of Mankind is modified that the awareness that human beings are mere hapless "Wogs"... The desire to help becomes the desire to recruit. The ideal of practical wisdom, based on logic and science, is superseded by the belief in the unfathomable mystery of the "tech." Indeed one is expected to be in a state of awe regarding the "tech," much in the same manner that a peasant woman might regard piece of bone, said to have belonged to a Saint from centuries past.

The publicly promoted "policy" of honesty is modified by an awareness that deception is OK, as long as it serves to achieve the desired Scientological end. And the ideals of civility and democracy become a joke - just something that "panty-waists" and wimps fixate on.

One is slowly being "hatted" as a Scientologist.

(At this point an - unlucky - new Scientologist may be subjected to heavy handed "hard sell" tactics by a sales person or "registrar." Life savings have been lost, inheritances gobbled up, and lines of credit drained, all in a single arduous evening of "hard sell." This is really a premature taste of Layer Four.)

The Third Layer down is composed of never ending, expensive, highly advertised, but confidential "upper levels." These go on and on - and on. Scientology has been selling the promise of "Total Freedom" since before most of its current membership were born. It remains the ever elusive "dangling carrot."

Well known individuals who become involved in Scientology - becoming "Scientology celebrities" - do not go deeper into the Scientological Onion than this.

They are also spared the abuses that "less valuable" beings may suffer at the hands of Scientology sales people, "Sea Org" recruiters, or "ethics" officers...

At the upper fringes of the next layer down is local "Org staff," and at the bottom of Layer Four can be found "Sea Org" personnel. This layer employs more pervasive and cruder forms of "persuasion" or "mind control." Here is the "slave labor" supplying Rehabilitation Project Force, the Pavlovian "5 Card System," and the grim but repressed awareness that one is mainly a "post" and a "stat," (i.e. statistic.)

The Fifth layer down includes intimidation of the mass media, use of lawsuits purely for purposes of harassment, and applications of policies and programs, such as those discovered as a result of the FBI search warrants of July 1977. These materials were made available for public view by Federal court order in 1979 and consist of organized applications of the Fair game Law, and related confidential policies and "tech," designed to illegally gain access to private files, infiltrate, harass, lie about, "sue, trick, lie to, or destroy" anyone perceived as an enemy. At this layer also would be secret bank accounts and financial irregularities.

Other aspects of this layer would include "blackmail," including threats to publicize personal information obtained during "religious confessionals" (auditing sessions); and the inducement of duress of various kinds - including frivolous lawsuits - to obtain promises of "silence," and to obtain "signed retractions" of earlier statements.

Here also can be found the handful of individuals who constitute the "Scientology hierarchy": the board of directors of the Religious Technology Center, and its chairman David Miscavige or "DM."

Layer Number Six appears to be the core of the Onion. It is a very temperamental and secret place.

Here lie the secrets of L. Ron Hubbard: his bad health, bad habits, undistinguished military service, flunked physics and mathematics classes. Here can be found the actual motivations behind, and sources of, Dianetics and Scientology. Here can be found Mary Sue Hubbard, languishing in prison for crimes committed under her husband's direction, while her husband, in hiding, passes the time writing Science Fiction. Here are all the things you shouldn't know about the founder of the "Science of Knowing How to Know."

L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman?, 2nd edition:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0942637577/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-0654802-4263319

Brainwashing Manual Parallels in Scientology:

http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/ambry1.html


Messiah or Madman?

The book L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman? has been published in three English language editions, each further revised and updated
(1987, 1992, and 1996.) There is also a hardbound Russian language edition that became available in 2005.

Unlike most other books on Scientology, 'Messiah or Madman?' examines both the "positives" and "negatives" of the subject.

An excerpt from the book flap for the 464 page 1996 edition:

"I have high hopes of smashing my name
into history so violently that it will take a
legendary form even if all the books are
destroyed. That goal is the real goal as far as
I am concerned. Things which stand too
consistently in my way make me nervous.
It's a pretty big job. In a hundred years
Roosevelt will have been forgotten - which
gives some idea of the magnitude of my
attempt. And all this boils and froths inside
my head...
"Psychiatrists, reaching the high of the
dusty desk, tell us that Alexander, Genghis
Kahn and Napoleon were madmen. I know
they're maligning some very intelligent
gentlemen."

L. Ron Hubbard wrote these words in a letter to
his first wife in 1938.

In 1950 he wrote the bestseller 'Dianetics, the
Modern Science of Mental Health. This inspired a
layman oriented mental health movement which,
ultimately, developed into Scientology, the most
profitable of the money-making new religions.

Hubbard's early Dianetic and Scientology writings
borrow freely from Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung, and
the founder of General Semantics, Alfred Korzybski.

And P.T. Barnum appears to have been an inspiration.

Hubbard also took much from the writings of Aleister
Crowley - self-proclaimed "Beast 666." This is a source
of embarrassment for the Scientology Church, which
is determined to achieve broad public acceptance.

In the 1960s Hubbard incorporated Brainwashing
methodologies into the subject. He established the
"Fair Game Policy" which states that an "enemy" of
Scientology "may be deprived of property or injured
by any means by any Scientologist, without
discipline of that Scientologist. May be tricked,
sued, lied to or destroyed."

He also became the Commodore of his own private
navy, and began to refer to himself as "Source."

L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman? exposes
as never before the dark side of Scientology, yet
contains an in-depth examination of the potential
positives of the subject and their actual origins.


Brainwashing Manual http://warrior.xenu.ca/Brainwashing-front.jpg Parallels in Scientology

Contents

Examining the 'Brainwashing Manual' with the purpose of better understanding Scientology 4

Introduction: A Brief Outline of Scientology Doctrine, Public and Confidential 6

"White Scientology" - The Battle Tactics Doctrine - Brainwashing Manual Tech - Scientology is Multi-layered - Exploiting the Positives: the Cheese in the Trap -

Background 9

Origin of the word "brainwashing." and of the "Russian Brainwashing Manual"
L. Ron Hubbard writing to Scientoogists on the subject of the Brainwashing Manual
Departing briefly from the Manual: A look at private tactics later shared with insiders
A publicized statement
A private explanation
Hubbard vs. the "Asiatic Hordes"
Back to the Brainwashing Manual: Excerpts from Hubbard's third public statement on it
Kenneth Goff's 1956 version of the Manual
Scientology's "No-answer answers."

Excerpts from the Brainwashing Manual/Textbook on Psycho-politics 14

"Editorial Note": Hubbard. assuming the guise of the phantasmal "Charles Stickley"
"An Address by Beria": Hubbard, pretending to be Lavrenti Beria, chief of the Russian Secret Police
The Main Text of the Manual: Hubbard, masquerading as an arrogant Russian Brainwashing expert
"Pain-Drug-Hypnosis"

The Layers of The "Scientological Onion" 17

Brainwashing Manual Parallels in Modern Scientology 19

Correspondences between the Brainwashing Manual and the Battle Tactics policy
On “Survival”
On Surviving the Atomic Bomb
On an individual Scientologist influencing leaders
Scientology is devious by design

Front Groups - Layer Zero of the “Scientological Onion.” 20

“It is not necessary that the term ‘Communism’ [Scientology] be applied at first…”

Layer One - The publicized portion of Scientology 23

“White Scientology”
Scenario: (An application of “White Scientology”)
“By reason alone”
Auditing

Descending into Layer Two of the “Onion”: The “In-Organization” Strata 27

“…[Scientology] under the guise of [‘White Scientology’]…”
Exploitation of the process of abreaction
Playing one thing off another or “counter-playing”
“Loaded language”: the seemingly enlightened “counter-played” with the manipulative
Tone 4, “entheta,” “theta,” Suppressive Person
The Thought Limiting clichés of Scientology
Publicized, “In-organization” and Confidential Scientology “Ethics”
“…aligning the individual against the desire not to conform…”
Side effects of “critical thoughts”
Dominion over the loyalties of individuals

Layer Three of the “Onion”: The Confidential “Upper Levels” of the “Bridge to Total Freedom” 33

“…avoid the understanding of the layman…”
Highest of the “upper levels” must remain a mystery to the membership
Operating Thetan or O.T.
Aleister Crowley, Head of the O.T.O.
O.T. III, The “Wall of Fire” into which Hubbard “took the plunge” to save Mankind
Exploitation of the paranormal

Layer Four: “…a well trained individual who serves in complete obedience…”
The Sea Organization, the Rehabilitation Project Force, and the Five Card System 36

The Sea Organization: “Custodians of the O.T. Levels”
“…the only loyalty which should exist… is to the State [Scientology].”
Sea Org Ethics under Commodore Hubbard on the Flagship
“Refusal to let them sleep over many days…”
The Rehabilitation Project Force
“Filthy food, little sleep, nearly untenable quarters…”
“…the first loyalty [to himself]… is destroyed…”
“Degradation and conquest…”
The children’s and teenagers’ RPF
“A certain amount of fear…”
The RPF’s RPF
The Five Card “Team Share” System
“The technologies of psycho-politics…”

Layer Five: Confidential Scientology Policy and Tech for “handling” uncooperative outsiders 46

The Fair Game policy and “philosophy”
“…find or manufacture enough threat…”
“Direct the attention of the authorities…”
Scientology’s unscrupulous use of the legal system
“We will no longer put up with our religion being criticized…”
Discourage inquiry
Defamatory data on file; “Culling”: Searching “religious confessional” (auditing) files for embarrassing or intimidating items
Background: The Commodore’s Intelligence Network
The policy of covert attack and publicized PR “defense lines”
Scientology’s Multi-layered Public Relations tech
Scientology Intelligence tech
Data collecting, and Attack or “support” Intelligence
Creating incidents that reflect badly on others
“Data needed by Ops on each located who”
Attack or “support” Intelligence - The Covert Ops study course and checklist
“Persons in his vicinity to whom he is emotionally involved…”
Coerce them into signing prepared “retractions” or “confessions”
Plenty of bogus “documentation”
One justification for unscrupulous covert methods
Treatment of VIPs and celebrities
Goal of talking over “mental health” and “political guidance”
Full knowledge of Intelligence tech must be denied to the general membership
“Deception, chicanery, lying, manipulation and outright criminality”
“She over there, those pink legs sticking out, didn’t like me”
Scientologists believe in a planet-wide conspiracy against L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology
The Scientology Hierarchy

Layer Six: The Core of the “Scientological Onion” 69

“…virtually a pathological liar…egotism… lust for power, and vindictiveness…”
“We must be like the vine upon the tree…”
The elusive “1000 page” official L. Ron Hubbard biography
“It’s a trap not being able to prevaricate”
Conscience as an “impediment”
The L. Ron Hubbard Fan(atic) club

Epilogue 74

Freeing the Positives

Addendum 76

"Dr. Hubbard's" FBI letters written concurrent with the appearance of the Brainwashing Manual 77

L. Ron Hubbard assumes the identity of Dr. Hubbard Ph.D DD - Patriotic Concerned Citizen
Letter of 29 July 1955
From a letter dated 7 September

A further look at Scientology's Covert Intelligence Tech 79

"Categories of Data Needing Coding"
A glimpse at a covert operation, and of public strata "policy" used as a cover for applied covert policy
An example of public strata "policy" used as "cover" - this time used on Scientologists by Scientology
"Ops Planning"
What to "Vet" or delete from sensitive internal messages that may be scrutinized by outsiders

Bibliography 82

Notes 87

 

[Sindy]

By all means, but how many of those indies are up to the task of confronting the template of the doctrine of Scientology http://warrior.xenu.ca/Brainwashing-front.jpg, as placed there by its founder (in the 1960s and 1970s), and up to the task of acknowledging its founder as having been responsible for doing so?

IMO, very few - if any.

Right. Whew! Incredible. Though I have read this data before, it is very hard to confront because it means that LRH was completely and utterly evil intentioned beyond belief.

It is fascinating how many different opinions there are of this man, and not just from people who never met him. It is quite an amazing study. It's really hard for to fully wrap my wits around this guy like I feel I am able to do with other people and subjects. The comfort of feeling resolved about someone or something always eludes me with LRH. It's quite creepy, actually.

 

[Feral]

I thoroughly recommend the books "Bare Faced Messiah", "Messiah or Madman" and a "Piece of Blue Sky" .

All three are available free on the web now.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Right. Whew! Incredible. Though I have read this data before, it is very hard to confront because it means that LRH was completely and utterly evil intentioned beyond belief.

You won't get an argument from me on that!

 

[Commander Birdsong]

may i call you cindy?

Right. Whew! Incredible. Though I have read this data before, it is very hard to confront because it means that LRH was completely and utterly evil intentioned beyond belief.

It is fascinating how many different opinions there are of this man, and not just from people who never met him. It is quite an amazing study. It's really hard for to fully wrap my wits around this guy like I feel I am able to do with other people and subjects. The comfort of feeling resolved about someone or something always eludes me with LRH. It's quite creepy, actually.

as per scripture i am not ron's judge. "the evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with the bones" is the way of babylonian-greco-roman civilization. the judeochristian honors and preserves the good. those who, like myself, have have found tangible and substantial value in the man's work are responsible for addressing the full body of his writings. we do find them here. we don't find them in CoS. we also don't find them over at marty's place.

glad you're here sweetheart, keep up the good work

 

[Sindy]

as per scripture i am not ron's judge. "the evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with the bones" is the way of babylonian-greco-roman civilization. the judeochristian honors and preserves the good. those who, like myself, have have found tangible and substantial value in the man's work are responsible for addressing the full body of his writings. we do find them here. we don't find them in CoS. we also don't find them over at marty's place.

glad you're here sweetheart, keep up the good work

Why, yes...you can call my Sindy but you have to write it with an "S"

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

It's really hard for to fully wrap my wits around this guy like I feel I am able to do with other people and subjects. The comfort of feeling resolved about someone or something always eludes me with LRH. It's quite creepy, actually.

He was a master con man, with an army of followers who dedicate their lives trying to disguise this fact.

I think he had a very troubling childhood so he invented fantasies to escape from reality.

I would love to see the notes of his personal auditing sessions.

You have to be severely damaged to lock up children in chain lockers on a ship, or force people to push peanuts around a splintered deck until their noses are bleeding.

This goes well beyond a lust for power, he enjoyed tormenting, degrading, and humiliating his followers.

Hubbard gave his own son Nibs amphetamines and when he started incoherently babbling from it taking effect, Hubbard jacked him up with even more, the result of this incoherently babbling was a "History Of Man"

It's hard for me to imagine someone else did not do this to him while he was a child. This is not the kind of behavior someone is born with, this is type of behavior is learned.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

thanx Sindy

and you may call me "bird"

 

[Veda]

as per scripture i am not ron's judge. "the evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with the bones" is the way of babylonian-greco-roman civilization. the judeochristian honors and preserves the good. those who, like myself, have have found tangible and substantial value in the man's work are responsible for addressing the full body of his writings. we do find them here. we don't find them in CoS. we also don't find them over at marty's place.

glad you're here sweetheart, keep up the good work

Wouldn't it be wiser to be aware of both the evil and the good? rather than follow the Scientology tradition of going to anything evil in the teachings of Hubbard? (while also being influenced by that evil and, sometimes, forwarding that evil) with the pretense that, by doing so, one is being "theta-ful"?

As for the "addressing the full body of his [Hubbard's secretive] writings," you can thank, for that, people like Gerry Armstrong, Bent Corydon, David Mayo and Arnie Lerma, and also thank the USA FBI, circa 1977-1980, under its then directors Kelley and Webster, along with Judge Paul Breckenridge. http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=465570&postcount=103