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Justifying why the L's did not work! I have the power, I don't know how to use it???

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I spoke to an L's completion a few days ago. She did the L's at FRAUD LAND BASE about 5 years ago. Her entire life fell apart after the L's. Bankrupt, divorce, lost job, sad and tragic!

She was on staff for several years, joined the SEAARRRGGGHH and then was a public PC. So, she was trained and trained and trained some more!

She does not want to talk about it and she thinks she needs her OATEE levels now.

I asked her how life was after the L's for $100,000 plus donations, $200 / nite at FRAUD, donations and more donations to all of the fraudulant fraud front groups etc.

She said "I have the power, I just don't know how to use it! I need to get trained and go OATEE!" :omg:

This is the NEW LIFE Fraud Land Base promises you for doing your "L's"!

Look up the definition of HELP and clear it, do a clay demo and use it in a sentence a million times!

"Something can be done about it" - the only thing that can be done at this point FRAUD LAND BASE - is to shut down, get a life and move on!

BILL OF GOODS!!!:omg:


 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Re: Justifying why the L's did not work! I have the power, I don't know how to use i

This is not just used for the Ls, it has been a constant since 1968 when I joined. In fact it was my "ruin" at one point.

ie "You are such an aware being with all this power, the only reason you are failing is because you need training." Makes one feel small, stupid and hungry for a solution.

I had some of the Hubbard pilot processes from the Ls and they crushed me into a teeny ball, no wonder she doesn't feel like she is 'winning'.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Re: Justifying why the L's did not work! I have the power, I don't know how to use i

Some people just can't or won't see the wood for the trees Idle Morgue and there is little that can be done until the person is ready to wake up.

It doesn't sound as if she is ready yet and she may never be.

If it wasn't scientology that was ripping her off, it would probably be something else.


:confused2:
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
Re: Justifying why the L's did not work! I have the power, I don't know how to use i

Wow. Not the first time I've heard such a thing. The 'True Believer' syndrome. What a pity and a waste. Total loss of logic skills, total slavish devotion, total effect.
 

Feral

Rogue male
Re: Justifying why the L's did not work! I have the power, I don't know how to use i

In all the time I was a Scientologist I have never seen the L's do anything other than screw up peoples lives.

Lower level actions may well be questionable in their outcome.

OT levels, it could be well argued do more harm than good.

But the L's are pure poison. Sold at the highest rate of all auditing, attracting the biggest fees, sold with the most mystique and promise of gain, yet never have I seen them improve a single persons life. In fact I've seen the reverse more times than I care to recall.

I remember the reactions of the reges and Flag staff when I drew their attention to the uncomfortable fact that their last customer says he feels like he's being electric shocked every few minutes and that he's losing control of his thoughts.

"Threaten my GI line, will ya?"
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Re: Justifying why the L's did not work! I have the power, I don't know how to use i

Of course the L's work. I know of one non-Cof$ Cultist whose ability to be creepy and sexist increased exponentially after doing the L's.

What's the matter with you? Are you against Human Rights? Don't you want people to have wins wins wins?
 

RogerB

Crusader
Re: Justifying why the L's did not work! I have the power, I don't know how to use i

Yes, as noted elsewhere, the L's don't process you here, now: they trigger your past and stick you there in an attempt to handle it.

The bad news is that the result of this being blasted out of present time, the client has a hell of a time operating and directing it's spiritual power here, now in the real universe where the game is played.

Though it is possible, that with a very gentle, loving, precise and thorough auditor (whose not in it for the stats!) like, for example, Trey Lots, one might get decent gains out of it.

But note I wrote, might.

The questions used would be better reworded "Do you . . . ?" or "Are you . . . .?" versus the incredibly stupid: "Have you ever . . . ?"

This way you'd pick up the PT dramatization/behavior causing strife in the here and now versus spraying you all over the time trail.

R
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Re: Justifying why the L's did not work! I have the power, I don't know how to use i

I think, after luring unsuspecting Taiwanese immigrants with promises of teaching them English, and then giving them the Hubbard SP/PTS course, the Ls may be the next big hot item at Helen Chen's Academy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQVui1csNAA&feature=youtu.be

Helen lured most Taiwanese students, and probably others, out of
COS LA. Her academy where this was filmed produces more auditors
than COS LA.

I've posted many L's successes from Trey, many with chinese names.
Also my own success on L-11.

God knows what they do at flag. If they're still using the new def of an F/N on L's that would be very destructive IMO, leading to overun, out lists
etc on the heavy areas one addresses on L's.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Re: Justifying why the L's did not work! I have the power, I don't know how to use i

Helen lured most Taiwanese students, and probably others, out of
COS LA. Her academy where this was filmed produces more auditors
than COS LA.

I've posted many L's successes from Trey, many with chinese names.
Also my own success on L-11.

God knows what they do at flag. If they're still using the new def of an F/N on L's that would be very destructive IMO, leading to overun, out lists
etc on the heavy areas one addresses on L's.

She's lured plenty of innocent Taiwanese out of Taiwan, innocent Taiwanese pursuing their dream of coming to America, and their dream of learning English. Some had prior contact with corporate Scientology, some did not.

I don't know what the "new definition of an F/N on L's" is, but I am familiar with Hubbard's final and definitive (1978) definition. There was even a thread about it. And that definition is routinely blamed on Miscavige by the "Miscavige is the reason Scientology doesn't work" Independent/Zoner Hubbard-revering Scientologists.

Helen Chen, herself, has stated that she teaches English to non-English speaking Taiwanese - that's a lure. It only becomes a questionable lure - as in unsavory - when those same non-English speaking Taiwanese learn English in an environment where Hubbard's SP/PTS Tech and other Hubbardian oobleck surrounds them.

Helen Chen, herself, is still very much an Hubbardian oobleck swallowing Hubbardite, but one that likes flowers and nice aesthetics.

These unfortunate people are going to learn English mixed with Hubbardisms. No doubt, some will never be able to sort it out.

Helen Chen runs her Center like a posh kid-gloves light-touch Mission. It's a "less steep gradient" than a $cn Org, but the "gradient" still leads to Hubbardism, the SP Doctrine, and the Hubbard/Xenu Bridge.

And I've seen some of those Trey Lotz "Ls Success Stories," and quite a few of them sound pretty nutty.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Re: Justifying why the L's did not work! I have the power, I don't know how to use i

Yes, as noted elsewhere, the L's don't process you here, now: they trigger your past and stick you there in an attempt to handle it.

I certainly agree with the necessity to process someone in present time, and not to send them into the past. One problem with sending someone into the past is that it easily ends up as illusory. Going back a few years or into childhood isn't usually so bad, but looking at supposed past lives with the connivance of a Hubbard-indoctrinated "historian" is a recipe for disaster disguised as "whole track charge."

Paul
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Justifying why the L's did not work! I have the power, I don't know how to use i

Yes, as noted elsewhere, the L's don't process you here, now: they trigger your past and stick you there in an attempt to handle it.

The bad news is that the result of this being blasted out of present time, the client has a hell of a time operating and directing it's spiritual power here, now in the real universe where the game is played.

Though it is possible, that with a very gentle, loving, precise and thorough auditor (whose not in it for the stats!) like, for example, Trey Lots, one might get decent gains out of it.

But note I wrote, might.

The questions used would be better reworded "Do you . . . ?" or "Are you . . . .?" versus the incredibly stupid: "Have you ever . . . ?"

This way you'd pick up the PT dramatization/behavior causing strife in the here and now versus spraying you all over the time trail.

R

If after the L's one is out of PT, then the answer is simple ... 4 months of hard labor ... and while not billed, the Fort Homicide hotel rates still apply, and you have to buy your own food. Following that, a dozen or so expensives doing book and bottle torture, and you will be good as new. Perhaps you have an inheretence from an elderly aunt that you can tap into. Go see the redge, just as soon as you have upgraded your IAS status to Doofus Maximus.

Pete
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Re: Justifying why the L's did not work! I have the power, I don't know how to use i

I don't know what the "new definition of an F/N on L's" is, but I am familiar with Hubbard's final and definitive (1978) definition. There was even a thread about it. And that definition is routinely blamed on Miscavige by the "Miscavige is the reason Scientology doesn't work" Independent/Zoner Hubbard-revering Scientologists.

The 1978 revised def of an F/N was written under instructions of DM
and put over LRH's signature. Below comments by Dan Koon:-


Coup de Grâce for Auditing?
June 01, 2010, 07:57:18 PM
by :
Dan Koon

For years now, I’ve been hearing about DM’s “interpretation” of LRH’s definition of a floating needle and the trouble it has caused both auditors and preclears.

The LRH definition as written in HCOB 21 July 1978, WHAT IS A FLOATING NEEDLE is elegant simplicity itself:

“A floating needle is a rhythmic sweep of the dial at a slow, even pace of the needle.

“That’s what an F/N is. No other definition is correct.”

That’s the entirety of the bulletin.

I’d heard that DM, via his RTC Reps, had begun enforcing an interpretation based on the word “rhythmic” that an F/N had to sweep back and forth at least 3 times, based on the definition of the word “rhythmic.” I’m guessing that the idea was to give a verifiable minimum physical universe standard for what constituted a release in the pc’s mind. Whatever the reasoning, I’d heard a fair amount about this over the years.

Then, just recently a friend sent me a revision to this is simple LRH bulletin issued on 8 October 2000, which amends the definition to:

“A floating needle is a rhythmic sweep of the dial at a slow, even pace of the needle, back and forth, back and forth, without change in the width of the swing except perhaps to widen as the pc gets off the last small bits of charge. Note that it can get so wide that you have to shift the tone arm back and forth, back and forth, to keep the needle on the dial, in which case you have a floating tone arm.

“That’s what an F/N is. No other definition is correct.”

I’d never seen it before. I read it and thought to myself, “That mother*#!@+%^&#!! He went and changed the bulletin.”

I looked down at the bottom to see who had done the revision and I saw the initials “sk.” Sue Koon. My wife at the time. She was still working in RTRC while I was working in CMU. She never mentioned this revision to me in the 3+ ensuing years before I expedited my route out from the Sea Org. Had I been strong armed into making such a revision, as she no doubt was, I would not have had the courage to tell her had our situations been reversed, so I really can’t blame her. And I can understand her shame.

Her (DM’s) justification for the revision was that LRH had added text to a revision of the book E-Meter Essentials six months later in February 1979.

I suppose that someone who has studied the numerous other references in bulletins, books and lectures where LRH mentions and discusses F/Ns would not be too bothered by this screwball revision. (LRH’s mention of fleeting F/Ns and his famous dictum about “waiting for the meter to play Dixie” immediately spring to mind.) But a brand new auditor trainee unfamiliar with these other references could have this “new” definition hammered into his or her brain with the proverbial atomic branding iron and that would become their stable datum for an F/N.

Let’s now imagine the untold amount of trouble this had made the pcs, auditors, C/Ses, Cramming Officers and the organization since.

The auditor starts the session and asks the pc is he has an ARC Break.

Pc says “Nope” and the needle sweeps back and forth at a slow even pace of the needle. He’s feeling pretty chipper and looking forward to the body of the session.

The auditor stares at the needle to make sure it sweeps back and forth once more. The pc’s attention shifts somewhat to the auditor glancing down at the meter.

The auditor looks up and says, “Thank you. On the question, ‘Do you have an ARC Break, has anything been suppressed?’”

No read.

“Do you have a present time problem?” “On the question, ‘Do you have a present time problem, has anything been suppressed?’”

One Green Form later (because if rudiments won’t fly the auditor knows to assess a Green Form) the auditor and preclear are off to the races and off the pc’s program.

One wonders how many sessions have gone completely off the rails, how many auditors have given up or been removed from auditing and how many pcs and pre-OTs have been driven nuts and driven further into debt by this single revision to this one, simple HCOB.

In fact, if you wanted to kill off Scientology and you could only enter in ONE arbitrary into ONE LRH writing this would probably be the one. The beating heart of Scientology is the auditing session and if you can wreck every session right at the beginning, on the rudiments, or on any process if it gets that far, you will have wrecked the Scientology movement.

And you wonder why no auditors are being made, why orgs no longer sell auditing but only reg donations for other stuff and why people are leaving the church in droves.

Of course, such a coup de grâce would not have been possible during the 1950s when meters weren’t used but the subject still expanded like mad all over the world. Not saying here to get rid of meters. Just that revised definition of an F/N.

Written by Dan Koon
 

Veda

Sponsor
Re: Justifying why the L's did not work! I have the power, I don't know how to use i

The 1978 revised def of an F/N was written under instructions of DM
and put over LRH's signature. Below comments by Dan Koon:-

-snip-

Huh?

In 1978? I don't think so.

The redefinition of 1978 that was mentioned was done in 1978.

You're attempting to confuse that with something that happened in 2000.

I was referring to 1978. Miscavige was 17/18 years old.

By the way, wasn't it devout Hubbardite, and now Martyite, Dan Koon, who was present - as a witness - when Hubbard signed his Will shortly before his death? Dan Koon was going to talk about that, has he?

This person has done so much Scientological un-looking and selective forgetting, so as to not besmirch he beloved founder's good name, that he's pretty much negated his own credibility - at least until he does some serious cult-of-Hubbard self-deprogramming.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Re: Justifying why the L's did not work! I have the power, I don't know how to use i

This is fascinating. Although I have found that some auditing processes are helpful in some cases, I'm seeing and hearing nothing good about the Ls.

I, too, have known someone who did the Ls and ended up in dire straits. She had an underlying problem of her own (I won't go into it because I think she is still interested in Scn and I do not want to post enough to where people can figure out who she is. That would upset and hurt her.) but, still, the Ls did not help her.
 
Re: Justifying why the L's did not work! I have the power, I don't know how to use i

This is fascinating. Although I have found that some auditing processes are helpful in some cases, I'm seeing and hearing nothing good about the Ls.

I, too, have known someone who did the Ls and ended up in dire straits. She had an underlying problem of her own (I won't go into it because I think she is still interested in Scn and I do not want to post enough to where people can figure out who she is. That would upset and hurt her.) but, still, the Ls did not help her.

I've heard both 'good' & 'bad' stories concerning Ls completions. My perspective is that Ls often seem especially appealing to those in some sort of especially difficult situation in hopes of a 'miracle cure'. Much like cancer patients fearing death will reach for any piece of quack puffery as a last resort. That which may be usefully addressed via the Ls can be buried in the false hopes & promises made about them.

Such matters combined with the sort of bad auditing practices common in the church and the unreasonable expectations by which they are promoted lead to a mixture of failures, regrets, and crashing disappointments which prove to be catastrophic for many.


Mark A. Baker
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Re: Justifying why the L's did not work! I have the power, I don't know how to use i

I've heard very nice things about Helen Chin.
 

renegade

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Justifying why the L's did not work! I have the power, I don't know how to use i

I have seen people return from doing their L's with outrageous wins only to crash and burn shortly afterwards (most of them within the year).

After crashing and burning, the reg at flag tells them they need an L's review. After returning to flag to get the L's review, their prior packages or account gets used up from whatever services were unmocked, and are regged for more and cannot return until they come up with the cash because they cannot be left mid the repair they are on. Most of them return from review without much talk of huge wins.

After that return from flag and another crash and burn, they were told it is because they need to finish ALL 3 L's and then get regged for more. The same thing occurs, L's, review, used up account, regged for more, start new L's list, crash & burn, review, etc.

I have not seen anyone in our field do well after the L's, NOT ONE, (this is after the initial rave wins). The regging ALONE made some go bankrupt, lost their business, home, created familial upsets, huge debts, etc. And we are NOT even talking about the regging from the IAS, WISE, WTH, Super Power bldg, etc, etc, etc. which all pc's have to get to see on their way to the HGC. PLUS your accomos!

One L's guy said they don't tell you "You will need ALL THREE L's eventually and will sell you just one to get your foot in the door. So don't do just one or think you can get away with just one L."

Another told me that the L's were done in the wrong sequence so he has to come up with more money to fix flags error and is messed up because of it. Now he can't come up with the money as he is messed up and lost all his resources.

One guy broke his neck,

Five lost their business,
one spun in and couldn't catch his plane back to his home and lost his business,
two got ino huge financial debt and IRS problems.
one lost his business but I think he may have started another one.
one had to sell to cover debts and is living off her relatives.
Another one second mortgaged his home and ALMOST lost his practice.

One had a heart attack shortly after.

The worst one ended up in the SO, gave up her business and now is stuck in the SO.

I dunno about in the Freezone or Indy but the above were flag's products in our field. NOT ONE did well after the L's.
 
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