Lurkers Redux

[nexus100]

A poster who will not be identified (MichelleAsWell) states:
“Plenty of people here say it better than I could”.

As Michelle is no doubt a bright person she is likely correct. There are more than a few pompous windbags on this site who spew enough that they are bound to say something clever once in a while. I am proud to say I consider myself one of them.

But no matter what I say or what anyone else says no one but Michelle can express her point of view. And no one can express your point of view but you.

It seems to me that Hubbard’s whole twisted purpose became to squash other viewpoints. He did not want any else’s ideas filtering into the network. But a rational person realizes that the reason we are here is to see what other people think. And from that reasoning it follows that it is only fair that each of us share our way of looking at things. This is the ESMB fairness doctrine. The world consists of me AND thee.

It is my opinion that you are not doing anyone any favors by standing on the sidelines. Your freedom consists of moving where you wish.

PLEASE feel free to move here, and to make your viewpoint known. You would not believe how valuable that is to everyone here. Every new post is a breath of fresh air. Every new viewpoint is a step in the direction of freedom for all of us. That is not just wind to me. It is very real.

That is how I look at it, anyway. What do you think?

 

[uncle sam]

I think that -Nexus is right!

Communicate! It is what makes this board and you alive!

 

[MichelleAsWell]

Ha!

Let me 'splain....I KNOW everyone's viewpoints are welcome here--that's what is so inspirational about this board--so many different viewpoints, such a supportive group...

But really, seriously...people usually DO say it better than me, b/c in this format it's so easy to offend and I don't come across the way I intend half the time...and someone usually will do a great job of expressing what I feel eventually anyway...

 

[nexus100]

Yes dear. Now repeat after me: There is always a reason not to communicate.

 

[MichelleAsWell]

wait, are you saying that you think I shouldn't communicate? or I think I shouldn't communicate, and henceforth aren't communicating?:confused2:

Oi! This is a nice place, and I'm just trying not to get people riled up unnecessarily with the not-coming-across-wellish tendency I have....

but if you insist....

 

[nexus100]

Thanks! Now On To Target Two!!

 

[Telepathetic]

A poster who will not be identified (MichelleAsWell) states:
“Plenty of people here say it better than I could”.

As Michelle is no doubt a bright person she is likely correct. There are more than a few pompous windbags on this site who spew enough that they are bound to say something clever once in a while. I am proud to say I consider myself one of them.

But no matter what I say or what anyone else says no one but Michelle can express her point of view. And no one can express your point of view but you.

It seems to me that Hubbard’s whole twisted purpose became to squash other viewpoints. He did not want any else’s ideas filtering into the network. But a rational person realizes that the reason we are here is to see what other people think. And from that reasoning it follows that it is only fair that each of us share our way of looking at things. This is the ESMB fairness doctrine. The world consists of me AND thee.

It is my opinion that you are not doing anyone any favors by standing on the sidelines. Your freedom consists of moving where you wish.

PLEASE feel free to move here, and to make your viewpoint known. You would not believe how valuable that is to everyone here. Every new post is a breath of fresh air. Every new viewpoint is a step in the direction of freedom for all of us. That is not just wind to me. It is very real.

That is how I look at it, anyway. What do you think?

Nexus,

I like what you say and how you say it, thanks

TP

 

[Zinjifar]

wait, are you saying that you think I shouldn't communicate? or I think I shouldn't communicate, and henceforth aren't communicating?:confused2:

Oi! This is a nice place, and I'm just trying not to get people riled up unnecessarily with the not-coming-across-wellish tendency I have....

but if you insist....

I think one of the most healing aspects of ESMB is that it's a fair training ground for communication; wog communication, where people can make missteps and take or give offense *without* it immediately resulting in dire consequences. One of the worst things about Scientology training is the training in having a very thin skin and recognizing enmity at the first opportunity.

Thick skins are good, so, if you step on somebody's toes, you get to say 'I'm sorry' and still know that you've helped them on the way to growing their newer, thicker skin

Zinj

 

[FinallyFree]

Here, here Zinj (he's one of my favorite posters here) - Come on Michelle, we forgive here. We want errors here, we really do want to hear about your experiences, thoughts and feelings.

Try communicating; if/when you make a mistake - enjoy explaining it. Some of my realizations have come from explaining something I didn't say too clearly!

 

[Whitedove]

Ha!

Let me 'splain....I KNOW everyone's viewpoints are welcome here--that's what is so inspirational about this board--so many different viewpoints, such a supportive group...

But really, seriously...people usually DO say it better than me, b/c in this format it's so easy to offend and I don't come across the way I intend half the time...and someone usually will do a great job of expressing what I feel eventually anyway...

MichelleAsWell, dont worry I am guilty of the same thing as you

I am learning to apologize when I misundertood someone. that is my biggest sin here.

 

[clamicide]

Amen

Cool nexus! Come post, one and all. The first time I posted...I got so SICK to my stomach and couldn't sleep afterward. Tied myself in KNOTS for at least a month or two. Finally being able to speak is SO liberating, and I actually noticed a difference in how I felt in the real world after doing so here. Hiding gets old.

Now, I know I might have posts that are stupid. But....I post and it's OK. Cult took away my voice for so long. The world is not as harsh on us as CoS, and there won't be a huge KR on you or lowers if ya screw it up. Come out, one and all. ESMB rocks

 

[Whitedove]

Cool nexus! Come post, one and all. The first time I posted...I got so SICK to my stomach and couldn't sleep afterward. Tied myself in KNOTS for at least a month or two. Finally being able to speak is SO liberating, and I actually noticed a difference in how I felt in the real world after doing so here. Hiding gets old.

Now, I know I might have posts that are stupid. But....I post and it's OK. Cult took away my voice for so long. The world is not as harsh on us as CoS, and there won't be a huge KR on you or lowers if ya screw it up. Come out, one and all. ESMB rocks

Its oh so true that Scientology take away our freedom of speech. I mean, in Scientology you have to learn to be perfect, say the right thing at the right moment, feel what Hubbard said you should feel...which is pretty much...nothing! You cant argue or its considered 'entheta'. You can have fun cause 'you have other fish to fry'. You can't feel sad cause its 'downtone'.
Holy crap! Nice life we had eh?

Yeah...ESMB DO rocks! :dancer: :dancer:

(this smily his absolutely unrelated. Just felt like putting it here)

 

[degraded being]

A poster who will not be identified (MichelleAsWell) states:
“Plenty of people here say it better than I could”.

As Michelle is no doubt a bright person she is likely correct. There are more than a few pompous windbags on this site who spew enough that they are bound to say something clever once in a while. I am proud to say I consider myself one of them.

But no matter what I say or what anyone else says no one but Michelle can express her point of view. And no one can express your point of view but you.

It seems to me that Hubbard’s whole twisted purpose became to squash other viewpoints. He did not want any else’s ideas filtering into the network. But a rational person realizes that the reason we are here is to see what other people think. And from that reasoning it follows that it is only fair that each of us share our way of looking at things. This is the ESMB fairness doctrine. The world consists of me AND thee.

It is my opinion that you are not doing anyone any favors by standing on the sidelines. Your freedom consists of moving where you wish.

PLEASE feel free to move here, and to make your viewpoint known. You would not believe how valuable that is to everyone here. Every new post is a breath of fresh air. Every new viewpoint is a step in the direction of freedom for all of us. That is not just wind to me. It is very real.

That is how I look at it, anyway. What do you think?

I agree. I agree with what zinj says too. It's healing - not just to read- but to express your thoughts. Also that some sort of "training" or development of discussion skills happens.

 

[Wisened One]

I think one of the most healing aspects of ESMB is that it's a fair training ground for communication; wog communication, where people can make missteps and take or give offense *without* it immediately resulting in dire consequences. One of the worst things about Scientology training is the training in having a very thin skin and recognizing enmity at the first opportunity.

Thick skins are good, so, if you step on somebody's toes, you get to say 'I'm sorry' and still know that you've helped them on the way to growing their newer, thicker skin

Zinj

Very well-said, Zinj...

 

[Panda Termint]

Good point, Nexus.

 

[BlackCatTango]

Ha!

Let me 'splain....I KNOW everyone's viewpoints are welcome here--that's what is so inspirational about this board--so many different viewpoints, such a supportive group...

But really, seriously...people usually DO say it better than me, b/c in this format it's so easy to offend and I don't come across the way I intend half the time...and someone usually will do a great job of expressing what I feel eventually anyway...

But you know what, those people aren't you, and if you need or want to say something, say it anyways. And the more you communicate, the better you get at it. Even if it isn't what you intend half the time, the percentage rate goes up the more you communicate. Sometimes, I find that in the process of communicating what you want to say, you can sort out your intentions and communicate them better.

Recently having read a book about communication by radio-guy Larry King, I re-learned the value of honesty in communication. If you are afraid to offend, you can start out by saying so. It's honest and people immediately respect that, good people, that is (not like some brain-washed cultie who would make you want to feel like you are less for admitting that you have fears of offending)

And don't forget to have fun. And if you aren't sure your intention will get across, there's all those great little smiles you can throw in as well--which you do so well already.

 

[Carmel]

A poster who will not be identified (MichelleAsWell) states:
“Plenty of people here say it better than I could”.

As Michelle is no doubt a bright person she is likely correct. There are more than a few pompous windbags on this site who spew enough that they are bound to say something clever once in a while. I am proud to say I consider myself one of them.

But no matter what I say or what anyone else says no one but Michelle can express her point of view. And no one can express your point of view but you.

It seems to me that Hubbard’s whole twisted purpose became to squash other viewpoints. He did not want any else’s ideas filtering into the network. But a rational person realizes that the reason we are here is to see what other people think. And from that reasoning it follows that it is only fair that each of us share our way of looking at things. This is the ESMB fairness doctrine. The world consists of me AND thee.

It is my opinion that you are not doing anyone any favors by standing on the sidelines. Your freedom consists of moving where you wish.

PLEASE feel free to move here, and to make your viewpoint known. You would not believe how valuable that is to everyone here. Every new post is a breath of fresh air. Every new viewpoint is a step in the direction of freedom for all of us. That is not just wind to me. It is very real.

That is how I look at it, anyway. What do you think?

Great point, Nex, and well made.

"New blood", "fresh viewpoints" and people communicating from their hearts, has such a positive effect on all of us who are still healing, still looking, or still open to learning and experiencing or wanting to live life. In addition to that, it is heart-filling to be a part of the sharing/evolving/freeing/growing "process".

It's the various points of view and the sharing of those points of view which has been the major factor in a 'recovery'/'new world' for me, which I couldn't have envisioned, let alone dreamed of.

It's all the points of view that have made the difference for me, and I know that it's all those points of view that have made such a difference for so many others. They are still making a difference! - Bring them on!

I think one of the most healing aspects of ESMB is that it's a fair training ground for communication; wog communication, where people can make missteps and take or give offense *without* it immediately resulting in dire consequences. One of the worst things about Scientology training is the training in having a very thin skin and recognizing enmity at the first opportunity.

Thick skins are good, so, if you step on somebody's toes, you get to say 'I'm sorry' and still know that you've helped them on the way to growing their newer, thicker skin

Zinj

Yeah Zinj - another good point. However, rather than "training ground", I'd say "safe ground".

While in the ranks of the CofS, my willingness to communicate got diminished year after year. It got to the point where I just learnt to shut the fuck up, 'cause it wasn't worth the repercussions if and when I communicated what I felt.

Among my Scio friends, I learnt it wasn't smart to say what I felt. Among my non-scio friends I was free to communicate but no way would they or could they have understood what I was on about.

Among this wonderful bunch of people on ESMB, there are many who do understand, and in addition to that, there's the freedom to communicate without the dire consequences for doing so, like there was within the CofS.

I probably don't believe that most Scientologists or Ex-Scientologists need to learn to communicate or to communicate again - I think that they just probably need to learn that it's OK to communicate here, and that if they do communicate 'whatever', then chances are it will have a positive affect on themselves and others, not a negative one like it was made to be, within the CofS.

I have always had the ability to communicate and I never lost it, but while in the ranks of the CofS, I denied myself that freedom to use that ability or to exercise the 'want' I had to do so, because if and when I did, it always seemed to land me in the crap. That 'denial' (that restriction I put on myself), affected me severely in more areas than one. ESMB has helped me by offering me that freedom back, to again communicate without restriction or reservation - It took a bloody while (that's for sure), but after a time, I took that opportunity, and I haven't looked back. I urge others to do the same, and hope that they will - for their sake and for ours.

 

[Tiger Lily]

Great thread!

People here are very forgiving. . . if you are misunderstood you can always explain; and if your viewpoint changes tomorrow, that's OK and not unexpected. Happens all the time here!

And on ESMB HE&R is OK, everything is OK because it's about real unsuprressed communication (strange concept, I know).

Never be afraid to express yourself -- it's the best way to examine your own viewpoints, and more often than not, your viewpoint will help someone else too!

-TL

 

[Doom]

A reply to all that came before me

It has only been weeks since the final decsion on Getting "out" and to be competely open about it this place was filled with those View points that really pulled the choice to the "out" button(along with some help from some friends, You know who you are).
So really with the extra data and view points I made that choice to be here.
So yes nexus I agree with your most excellent Post.

 

[justaguy]

MichelleAsWell:

Let's get the most important thing out of the way: you avatar is adorable. I thought that after years of being on the internet that my adorable-shields were nigh-impenetrable, but I had no choice but to stop and go "aaaaaw, how cute!".

As for that other stuff, y'know, I've learned how not to jump down people's throats all the time because what I thought they meant wasn't what they meant. It goes both ways.