Mike "I'm All About the Crimes" Rinder

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
Yes, I have posted this many times over the years.

I can understand why Rinder, with a new wife and two young children, doesn't want to reveal all at this time.

I can also understand why you and Gerry are dissatisfied with his reluctance to spill ALL the beans at this time.
Having a wife and kids might be someone's excuse for not coming forward. I've heard it a number of times from people who protect the Scientology conspirators/insiders, or who collaborate with them, etc. I haven't heard the wife defense from Rinder though. Rinder is saying he IS coming forward, he IS doing something about it, etc. He is lying, and we know it.

I don't know that I have expressed my dissatisfaction with some bean-spilling schedule. No beans have been spilled.

I hope we can continue this conversation on the new board.
 

freethinker

Sponsor
Who's thread is this, Lulu?

Yes, I interjected myself into your ESMB guilt and shame sermon on "We were all as criminally abusive as Mike Rinder and if you don't believe you were then you are lying or delusional" thread because I'm sick of the damage your ESMB sermon has caused Ex-Scientologists for so many years. What you were saying was simply not true and I showed how it is not.

I'd do it again too.

So if interjecting yourself onto other peoples' threads is so bad, why are you doing it here?

What percentage of your posts have been All About Alanzo! for the last 2 months?

Why don't you go over to the New ESMB and make them feel guilt and shame for things they didn't do in Scientology over there?

Why stay over here and post All About Alanzo!
People on the New ESMB don't want to talk about Alanzo, they have had enough of it here. You think that anyone here is here because of what you have to say. I think everyone knows what you have to say, you have repeated it over and over.

People are here, IMO, to understand why you are allowed to be here because you have nothing of value to contribute. Your anti-Scientology cult stuff is purely irrational except to the degree that you are anti- ex Scientologist and think that it's abnormal to discuss Scientology because we left it.

I think it is abnormal for you to think that you have any understanding of people to begin with whether they are ex Scientologist or an ex Alcoholic.

Where are your successes in getting people free from ex Scientology? how many people are praising Alanzo because he showed them how they were wasting their time and are now free because Alanzo showed them the way out. I think none.

I doubt you will ever become a major topic on the new board or even discussed much at all because you are not people friendly, you turn on people who don't agree with you and try to get others to do the same. Not working.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Having a wife and kids might be someone's excuse for not coming forward. I've heard it a number of times from people who protect the Scientology conspirators/insiders, or who collaborate with them, etc. I haven't heard the wife defense from Rinder though. Rinder is saying he IS coming forward, he IS doing something about it, etc. He is lying, and we know it.

I don't know that I have expressed my dissatisfaction with some bean-spilling schedule. No beans have been spilled.

I hope we can continue this conversation on the new board.
He is lying? And we know it?

How do we know it? :unsure:
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Starting in 2014, both Marty and Mike did start "spilling beans."

They went from covering for Hubbard to being open about Hubbard.

That doesn't mean they told all about every activity for which they might be culpable.

Doing so would act as a confession for them, while leaving Miscavige - who gave the orders in the first place - behind a wall of corporate religious cloaking, denying that he knew anything about it, and, sans evidence, which is not likely they would have had, would destroy them while leaving Miscavige in the clear.

I'm certainly not satisfied with this situation, but I understand it.
Marty has laid out the whole corruption scheme of Pinellas County Florida, naming names of attorneys and judges that the cult has used in both the Lisa McPherson Case and in helping to cover up the murder of Kyle Brennan.

Mike has never even acknowledged any of this information. Not even once.

And in the 12 years he's been out, after 3 seasons of a TV show that claimed to want a Federal Investigation and a review of the IRS tax exemption, Mike Rinder has not revealed one criminal act that would put David Miscavige or any officer of the Church of Scientology into criminal jeopardy, despite running the Office of Special Affairs for David Miscavige for 22 years.

So, Veda, now I can see you have accepted the "Cover Your Ass" Hypothesis to try to explain why Mike Rinder has never revealed a crime.

** The NO CRIME Hypothesis: Marty Mike and Dave didn't commit any crimes. 11 top Scientologists, including Mary Sue, had been convicted of felonies and sent to prison. They'd learned their lesson. There were no crimes to report.
Probability level:

** The SCIENTOLOGY/GOVERNMENT Hypothesis: Mike HAS reported all kinds of crimes - he went to the FBI with them 11 years ago. But because of pay-offs, underhanded dealings and other conspiracies, the government will do nothing about them.
Probability Level:

** The LIMITED HANGOUT Hypothesis: Because of the billions of dollars at stake for Scientology, DM and MR worked out an "ALL CLEAR UNIT" kind of project where Mike would wind everyone up on moral outrages, but constantly steer everyone away from any criminal activity that might bring subpeonae, forensic accounting etc. They have the money to handle any civil suit, what they can't handle is criminal indictments.
Probability Level:

** The MIKE WAS IN THE HOLE Hypothesis: Mike was just a former spokesman for the Church of Scientology, never ran any OSA fair game ops, especially any criminal ones. So while there may be criminal activity to discover, Mike was always in the Hole or practicing speeches into the mirror, and didn't know about them.
Probability Level:

** The TOO HARD TO PROSECUTE Hypothesis: Mike has revealed all the crimes he knows about, but because of the 1st amendment and lack of smoking guns on them, plus prosecutorial ethics, no charges have been filed.
Probability Level:

** The "Cover Your Ass" Hypothesis: Mike knows about all kinds of crimes, but because of his own exposure to prosecution, he's not talking.
Probability Level:


** The MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION Hypothesis: DM and Mike were up to their neck in criminal activity, but if one goes to the coppers, the other will too. So they're both quiet.
Probability Level:

So now, per your pattern, are you going to become so certain about this way of explaining why Mike has revealed no crimes for 12 years that you will make this particular hypothesis your pet - and accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being an OSA Agent?
 
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Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Having a wife and kids might be someone's excuse for not coming forward. I've heard it a number of times from people who protect the Scientology conspirators/insiders, or who collaborate with them, etc. I haven't heard the wife defense from Rinder though. Rinder is saying he IS coming forward, he IS doing something about it, etc. He is lying, and we know it.

I don't know that I have expressed my dissatisfaction with some bean-spilling schedule. No beans have been spilled.

I hope we can continue this conversation on the new board.
What's more, any beans that have been spilled, such as Tory Christman's and Chuck Beatty's OSA programs (but never Gerry's) have been spilled following the Bean Theory of Spilling OSA Programs by L Ron Hubbard: Only spill those beans which get you more beans in return. :thumbsup:
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
And in the 12 years he's been out, after 3 seasons of a TV show that claimed to want a Federal Investigation and a review of the IRS tax exemption, Mike Rinder has not revealed one criminal act that would put David Miscavige or any officer of the Church of Scientology into criminal jeopardy, despite running the Office of Special Affairs for David Miscavige for 22 years.
Despite acknowledging that you don't know this, you continue to assert it as if was factual.

Just curious, why do you repeatedly lie about this?

On a different but related point, are you familiar with the last lawsuit that came out a week or so against David Miscavige, making accusations of conspiracy and racketeering?

Even though it is a civil lawsuit, do you believe it's possible that the discovery process in that lawsuit may produce evidence that could put David Miscavige or other "church" officers in criminal jeopardy?
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
@RogerB wrote:

"In my last long post addressing “the emails,” I said I would debunk the lies of the Cof$’s OSA smear of Karen that the animal A is throwing about to earn a dishonest $$.'
"Firstly, that picture draped across the front of the video OSA created is false. It is a photoshop altered picture wherein the cult has grafted her head to a body that is NOT hers.'
"I personally know this as I’ve seen her body nearly nude when in her prime 49 years ago. ...."

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::laugh::laugh::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

I'm sorry.

I couldn't keep reading after that.
 
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Caroline

Patron Meritorious
He is lying? And we know it?

How do we know it? :unsure:
Well, I guess "we" is not specific enough. Obviously there are seven plus billion people who don't even know of Mike Rinder, let alone know he's lying. The idea that there are people here who discuss him and don't know he's lying (where it has been pointed out he's lying) is frankly incomprehensible. It's something like an ESMB member of many years asking, "How do we know L. Ron Hubbard is/was lying?"

I am aware of Aaron Smith-Levin's sort of group threat that people who think Mike Rinder hasn't told all, that he's not getting off the most serious offenses, are out of their minds and an embarrassment to the entire former Scientology community.(~12:14)


Excerpt:

Debunking the "David Miscavige Child Sex Slave" Story said:
Aaron Smith-Levin: Come on, John. [John McGhee] How can you be so stupid? People who peddle false bullshit stories like this, and people, John, like you , who go to bat for such people and push these stories for their own agenda, hurt everyone.

Doing things like this embarrasses everyone who actually have stories of abuse that they've told. And people like you John, try to lump crazy ass fantasy stories like this that are so bogus it's ridiculous. You try to lump those stories in with the real stories. And then you try to shame people who want to tell you that this girl is full of shit. So for everyone who's watching this video who's not John McGhee, let me explain a little something to you.

In order to understand crazy behavior, it can be helpful to understand the motivation that lies behind it. Here's John McGhee's motivation. John McGhee has a massive hard-on for Mike Rinder. John McGhee is one of these people who are part of a crazy little quack conspiracy group who thing that Mike Rinder is part of a long con operation being run by David Miscavige to distract everyone off of Miscavige's real crimes that he could be imprisoned for. And to get everybody all excited and um electrified about these other wild stories of abuse that we hear about people being mistreated and people being abused and immoral acts that people like John believe are immoral, but not illegal. People like John think that Mike's actually working for David Miscavige to keep everybody distracted on the 3 ring circus that is the Scientology and the Aftermath show that everyone thinks is fantastic and wonderful, but really it's part of a plot to distract everybody off of David Miscavige's real crimes.

And that Mike Rinder is actually providing air cover for David Miscavige.

Now John it’s possible that the description of this crazy little kooky conspiracy group that I've just given, it's possible that you don't consider yourself to be a member of that group.

0:12:14.6

So just in case that's true, let me restate my description of the group that you are a part of. If you are not a part of the group I just described, then you are most certainly part of the group who thinks that Mike Rinder has not told all to the authorities, or to the audience of Scientology and the Aftermath. You believe that Mike Rinder is sitting on crimes that he knows have been committed, but he doesn't want to say them because he was complicit in the crimes with David Miscavige. So you believe that Mike Rinder is not getting off the most serious offenses, the most serious crimes, because he's afraid that he will go to jail.

Here's Gerry's response to Aaron Smith-Levin.

So there's a great deal of that group pressure to isolate and invalidate people who say Rinder is lying, not telling all, etc. It is plain to me that doing so serves the interests and purposes of Rinder and his co-conspirators. But even Smith-Levin knows that Rinder has not told all.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Well, I guess "we" is not specific enough. Obviously there are seven plus billion people who don't even know of Mike Rinder, let alone know he's lying. The idea that there are people here who discuss him and don't know he's lying (where it has been pointed out he's lying) is frankly incomprehensible. It's something like an ESMB member of many years asking, "How do we know L. Ron Hubbard is/was lying?"
<sn
The question I had asked of you "How do we know he's lying?" applied specifically to the line of yours I bolded in my post:

caroline001.PNG

My intent was to ask specifically about how do we know he is lying about
"Rinder is saying he IS coming forward, he IS doing something about it"

Are you saying that there is evidence that he lied in the past, so we know he is lying about this as well?

So there's a great deal of that group pressure to isolate and invalidate people who say Rinder is lying, not telling all, etc. It is plain to me that doing so serves the interests and purposes of Rinder and his co-conspirators. But even Smith-Levin knows that Rinder has not told all.
Caroline, I certainly am not trying to isolate you or invalidate you as a person. On the contrary, I posted earlier that I hope both you and Gerry come to the new board.

And I've never made the claim that Rinder "told all" or that he never lied.

I was just challenging you on the point I raised.
 
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Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Well, I guess "we" is not specific enough. Obviously there are seven plus billion people who don't even know of Mike Rinder, let alone know he's lying. The idea that there are people here who discuss him and don't know he's lying (where it has been pointed out he's lying) is frankly incomprehensible. It's something like an ESMB member of many years asking, "How do we know L. Ron Hubbard is/was lying?"

I am aware of Aaron Smith-Levin's sort of group threat that people who think Mike Rinder hasn't told all, that he's not getting off the most serious offenses, are out of their minds and an embarrassment to the entire former Scientology community.(~12:14)


Excerpt:



Here's Gerry's response to Aaron Smith-Levin.

So there's a great deal of that group pressure to isolate and invalidate people who say Rinder is lying, not telling all, etc. It is plain to me that doing so serves the interests and purposes of Rinder and his co-conspirators. But even Smith-Levin knows that Rinder has not told all.
Exactly.

Yes he does. This is just one small item that is proof of that.

Why Mike Rinder & Leah Remini’s Where’s Shelly? Campaign is a Hoax
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
<snip>
So there's a great deal of that group pressure to isolate and invalidate people who say Rinder is lying, not telling all, etc. It is plain to me that doing so serves the interests and purposes of Rinder and his co-conspirators. But even Smith-Levin knows that Rinder has not told all.
<snip>
Just to add to what I wrote above:

Some years ago there was what I believed to be very unfair criticism leveled at Gerry here on ESMB. And I hit back pretty hard at the ones doing that despite the ones doing it were popular members of ESMB.

I don't know if you read that thread back at the time and/or remember it. I'll PM you the link if I can find it again.

Despite accusations to the contrary from some, I'm not part of a tribe that engages in group think.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
"Despite accusations to the contrary from some,
I'm not part of a tribe that engages in group think."

- Typ4_PTS
:hysterical:
 

Veda

Sponsor
Marty has laid out the whole corruption scheme of Pinellas County Florida, naming names of attorneys and judges that the cult has used in both the Lisa McPherson Case and in helping to cover up the murder of Kyle Brennan.

Mike has never even acknowledged any of this information. Not even once.

And in the 12 years he's been out, after 3 seasons of a TV show that claimed to want a Federal Investigation and a review of the IRS tax exemption, Mike Rinder has not revealed one criminal act that would put David Miscavige or any officer of the Church of Scientology into criminal jeopardy, despite running the Office of Special Affairs for David Miscavige for 22 years.

So, Veda, now I can see you have accepted the "Cover Your Ass" Hypothesis to try to explain why Mike Rinder has never revealed a crime.

** The NO CRIME Hypothesis: Marty Mike and Dave didn't commit any crimes. 11 top Scientologists, including Mary Sue, had been convicted of felonies and sent to prison. They'd learned their lesson. There were no crimes to report.
Probability level:

** The SCIENTOLOGY/GOVERNMENT Hypothesis: Mike HAS reported all kinds of crimes - he went to the FBI with them 11 years ago. But because of pay-offs, underhanded dealings and other conspiracies, the government will do nothing about them.
Probability Level:

** The LIMITED HANGOUT Hypothesis: Because of the billions of dollars at stake for Scientology, DM and MR worked out an "ALL CLEAR UNIT" kind of project where Mike would wind everyone up on moral outrages, but constantly steer everyone away from any criminal activity that might bring subpeonae, forensic accounting etc. They have the money to handle any civil suit, what they can't handle is criminal indictments.
Probability Level:

** The MIKE WAS IN THE HOLE Hypothesis: Mike was just a former spokesman for the Church of Scientology, never ran any OSA fair game ops, especially any criminal ones. So while there may be criminal activity to discover, Mike was always in the Hole or practicing speeches into the mirror, and didn't know about them.
Probability Level:

** The TOO HARD TO PROSECUTE Hypothesis: Mike has revealed all the crimes he knows about, but because of the 1st amendment and lack of smoking guns on them, plus prosecutorial ethics, no charges have been filed.
Probability Level:

** The "Cover Your Ass" Hypothesis: Mike knows about all kinds of crimes, but because of his own exposure to prosecution, he's not talking.
Probability Level:


** The MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION Hypothesis: DM and Mike were up to their neck in criminal activity, but if one goes to the coppers, the other will too. So they're both quiet.
Probability Level:

So now, per your pattern, are you going to become so certain about this way of explaining why Mike has revealed no crimes for 12 years that you will make this particular hypothesis your pet - and accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being an OSA Agent?
Starting around the time that Marty caved to Miscavige, several years ago, you also had a transformation. You started communicating using ideas and lingo one might expect to see in Scientology's freedom magazine, or from one of its propaganda outlets, front groups, professional apologists, or lawyers.

You still presented yourself as a critic of Miscavige, yet at other times, inexplicably, were protective of him. If anyone noticed this, you'd just increase your display of outrage at Miscavige and your disgust with the "anti-Scientologists" who, according to you, have been ineffective in removing Miscavige from his position as the dictator of Scientology - something you claim you passionately want to do.

Meanwhile, you've relentlessly attacked everyone who is high on David Miscavige's personal enemy list, while also gathering around you anyone who dislikes those you are attacking.

Some have fallen under your influence to the extent that they have begun using the stilted language you use.

Others might be confused by this, but I've seen it before.

In any event, in two days, you'll have to take your act elsewhere.
 

RogerB

Crusader
It seems to me that the descent into bad behavior we have witnessed recently, since Emma announced the end and opened the forum to those who had previously been banned, is explained in the attached document by Alan Walter.

It is really worth reading and understanding . . .
 

Attachments

  • 21CNP18.pdf
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freethinker

Sponsor
Well in actual fact, seeing that one photo I have commented on, and knowing well the cult's attack and destroy enemies nature, I did not bother to go further than the opening comment of the voice sliming Karen. So the other photos you say are legit, I have not seen. And, as you say, the do not point to any other activity.

But the photo I commented on is the opening assault on Karen with the dialogue accusing her of prostitution.

To be honest Emms, I am surprised and disappointed that you have continued to stir up so much shit against Karen these past weeks.

And, to be honest, it is a time wasting exercise for me to be having to continue to correct the bullshit that keeps being posted on this matter.

Hence, the big question becomes: What's your agenda?
I really don't care if karen was a prostitute before or not. It really doesn't seem to have impacted her current success much even if they did put this info out to ruin her.

I think there are few people that go to Scientology sites to find out about Karen and Alanzo putting it on his blog isn't going to make the info widespread.

It is likely, to me, that Alanzso schmoozed Emma so he could get back on the board so he could use it to spread the Karen disgrace as far and wide as possible because ESMB was so popular and he likes messing with people anyway.

i think Emma with her adversity with Karen wasn't wholly against rubbing Karen's nose in it because karen is being successful and far be it for anyone who was in Scientology to be successful at exposing the church. Fr whatever reason there seems to be some vengeance going on on her part as wel as Alanzo's "destroy utterly and shudder into silence" campaign.

If this is the way you want ESMB to go out then that's too bad, but really it's been like that off and on through its history. Someone says something and the next thing you have is "how dare you?" and war ensues. This seems to be the #1 thing people dragged from Scientology, KR tech, even though when in Scientology they probably didn't write them when in, it is used now that the onus of ethics isn't a factor.

Alanzo doesn't want to believe that paedophilia is connected to Scientology but wants to believe Karen is trash because she was hot and a story about her being a prostitute is just too tempting when one is so jealous of everyone else as Alanzo is.

Does anyone here really care if Karen did that? Was your life so pure and morally correct that you can shame her publicly? Isn't the shaming more damaging to society than what she did, if she did it?

Crushing people for sexual impropriety is as old as man but are the shammers any better? I don't think so.
 

Dave95694

Silly Human
Yes, I have posted this many times over the years.

I can understand why Rinder, with a new wife and two young children, doesn't want to reveal all at this time.

I can also understand why you and Gerry are dissatisfied with his reluctance to spill ALL the beans at this time.
Ah! The Veda comes out in support of Alanzos position!

The end times are near, miracles abound.

:)
 

freethinker

Sponsor
Marty has laid out the whole corruption scheme of Pinellas County Florida, naming names of attorneys and judges that the cult has used in both the Lisa McPherson Case and in helping to cover up the murder of Kyle Brennan.
So did Marty laying out the whole story put Dave behind bars? Doesn't look that way.
 
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