My awekening

[Nicole]

I had in the last 3 days my personal awekening. I read some things and "schwupps" I saw that my father lied to me. I think he lied very often. I knew it, but I clutched at straws.

Silly me!

The problem is, I can't decide what was true or what wasn't true? I can't ask him anymore.
I researched about his company and I didn't find any evidence that this company is Scientology. (http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=18433)
What did he told me? How should I decide what is a lie and what is truth? :confused2:

It is a big crime what Scientology does. They seperate families and they sow the seeds of discord.

I wish I could let him rest in peace. But as long I am having questions, about his death and about his live I can't let him go. As long I didn't understand what happen with my father and why I got harassed, I won't stop searching.

 

[Freeminds]

Just a thought:

"Living well is the best revenge."

-- George Herbert​

 

[Nicole]

"Living well is the best revenge."

-- George Herbert​

That is a pearl of wisdom.

 

[Stat]

That is a pearl of wisdom.

Subscribed.

 

[Stat]

"Living well is the best revenge."

-- George Herbert​

Thank you.

 

[Zinjifar]

If you've been defining yourself by your walls and the walls fall down, well, you're kinda fucked

Except that you will still be yourself even if the walls fall down.

Zinj

 

[Stat]

And that's why I am listening to no one these days, even though I get and hear everyone.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

@sauerlaenderin
Hmm.. Having re-read the post you linked to.. Your dad was a manager. A fairly important person in that company, which was being 'influenced' by Scientology through the founders son, a scientolgist(?) who became the CO (Owner, big boss).

So, at that time your dad could have been seen as a 'security risk', because he questioned CofS and put you to the task of 'investigating' the cult.

That would freak them out. That's their primary paranoia..

Is it that you suspect that your dad was more involved with CofS than what he told you?

Uhm.. That 'line' of his, about life being like a 'computer game' does sound like some scientology, but not neccesarily... He could have gotten that idea himself or somewhere else.

I take it that you do not mention the company's, or the founders son's names by deliberation and with good reason.. (I feel that the suspected scientology connection could be verified, or not, in short order if all Anonymous and ex-scientologists knew this data..) - But it's your call.

 

[Nicole]

@sauerlaenderin
Hmm.. Having re-read the post you linked to.. Your dad was a manager. A fairly important person in that company, which was being 'influenced' by Scientology through the founders son, a scientolgist(?) who became the CO (Owner, big boss).

So, at that time your dad could have been seen as a 'security risk', because he questioned CofS and put you to the task of 'investigating' the cult.

That would freak them out. That's their primary paranoia..

Is it that you suspect that your dad was more involved with CofS than what he told you?

Uhm.. That 'line' of his, about life being like a 'computer game' does sound like some scientology, but not neccesarily... He could have gotten that idea himself or somewhere else.

I take it that you do not mention the company's, or the founders son's names by deliberation and with good reason.. (I feel that the suspected scientology connection could be verified, or not, in short order if all Anonymous and ex-scientologists knew this data..) - But it's your call.

Schwimmel, that I knew that my father was a Scientologist it is more than I wrote and I don't write everything. I stayed during my childhood (teenagertime, young adult time) sometimes some days by my fathers family. I heard, saw and read there things. My "awakening" is based on things that happen in that time.

All Infos I am having are from my father. He was a very intelligent man but he also was a hard boss and manager.

It is a big company and without evidences I won't tell in public what for a company it was. It was so (like my father told me):
Company A got bought from company B, the A manager came in a company C. B got new managers, the managers that worked "well" came back into company B, than after a while (2 or 3 years later) the company B got sold to company D and the company C got closed. The company D did exists earlier and got because of it bigger. The managers from B(C) are now in D. My father was in company A and C!

I looked at all companies, but I found nothing about these companies ONLY a hearsay of company d. My father said this company is Scientology. I didn't find that owner in any WISE list etc. The owners of the other companies I didn't find in any list, but I need lists before 2000 and they I didn't have. (I am not sure if very big companies are in a WISE list)


I knew that I got harassed from Co$. I am 100 % sure. Why should they harassed me? My diplom thesis (I don't think so), my father and that they think I know something (maybe) or his death ( ???). Maybe Co$ got in Germany crazy,... I am not able to find answers.

During the last Raid, ca. six weeks ago, a man talked to me (I wished Anons would have stayed in my near). That man told me very, very nice that a letter from a lawyer with an "Unterlassenserklärung" could costs lots of money.


I did at the moment everything what is possible (without a risk for me) against these companies. If it is really Scientology and my father didn't lie, the truth will come out

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

<snip> During the last Raid, ca. six weeks ago, a man talked to me (I wished Anons would have stayed in my near). That man told me very, very nice that a letter from a lawyer with an "Unterlassenserklärung" could costs lots of money. <snip>

hmm.. No luck with any unambiguous translation.. But probably a 'Cease & Desist Order'.. Well, unless they can get a court to convict you to pay they'll have to pay themselves. A lawyer can send a C&D Order as a threath, and he'll send the bill to his client.

Of course.. I won't pretend to be any expert on German laws.. You know better than I about that I'm sure.

Now, Scientology is really the only 'company' I can think of that would send a flunky to a picket to make threathening noises at a protester.. They are also the only 'company' that has an 'Intelligence Sevice' that keeps track of potential 'enemies'.

And somehow I think both of the above is at least borderline illegal..

 

[Nicole]

Imo it was a idle threat (leere Drohung). Official they don't know who I am, I take care.

They will pay the price for their illegal activities and they are paying them in Germany. ...500 less members in Germany...

 

[MrNobody]

hmm.. No luck with any unambiguous translation.. But probably a 'Cease & Desist Order'.. Well, unless they can get a court to convict you to pay they'll have to pay themselves. A lawyer can send a C&D Order as a threath, and he'll send the bill to his client.

You didn't find much because it's called "Unterlassungserklärung", but yes, it's basically a C&D order.

Of course.. I won't pretend to be any expert on German laws.. You know better than I about that I'm sure.

I'm no expert either, but basically the "guilty" party has to pay all the costs in Germany. So if she does accept the C&D, she has to pay. She could object to the C&D in court, but then she would have to pay for her own lawyer, so it could indeed become a costly process for her, no matter what the outcome would be.

Now, Scientology is really the only 'company' I can think of that would send a flunky to a picket to make threathening noises at a protester.. They are also the only 'company' that has an 'Intelligence Sevice' that keeps track of potential 'enemies'.

And somehow I think both of the above is at least borderline illegal..

I'd say "borderline illegal" is the keyword here, and they're pushing the legal borders all the time. Winning against a multi-billion criminal organization isn't that easy...

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

<snip>.. the "guilty" party has to pay all the costs in Germany. So if she does accept the C&D, she has to pay. She could object to the C&D in court, but then she would have to pay for her own lawyer, so it could indeed become a costly process for her, no matter what the outcome would be. <snip>

Really? - Uhm.. If she 'accepts' the C&D.. Is that before a legal trial? - Ie. A 'company' sends a C&D to a citizen.. To make him stop doing something or other that they don't like.. And what does the citizen do to 'accept'? - Answer: 'Yes sir! - I'll stop doing it!' - and then he has to pay?

Hmm.. Isn't 'guilty' to be decided in court?

Of course the court could name the citizen the 'guilty' party.. But in that case it wouldn't be just the lawyers bill for sending a C&D.. It would be all the costs for the trial and possibly damages.. And BTW.. The court could decide that the 'company' is the 'guilty party' in which case they will have to pay all the costs.. Ammiright?

So it's not no matter what the outcome would be.. Scientology just might have to eat crow.

In theory..

But yes.. It's a billion dollar criminal organization. Caution is mandatory.. And I wouldn't advice any individual to take them on in court.

 

[MrNobody]

Really? - Uhm.. If she 'accepts' the C&D.. Is that before a legal trial? - Ie. A 'company' sends a C&D to a citizen.. To make him stop doing something or other that they don't like.. And what does the citizen do to 'accept'? - Answer: 'Yes sir! - I'll stop doing it!' - and then he has to pay?

Hmm.. Isn't 'guilty' to be decided in court?

Well, basically anyone can send a C&D, and some lawyers make good money from that. Often people accept such letters and pay, because they know that it might become way more expensive for them once the issue goes to court. If the court issues a real C&D, that can easily cost a lot of money.

Of course the court could name the citizen the 'guilty' party..

Once you "accept" a C&D that hasn't been issued by a judge, you basically declare yourself guilty without a trial.

But in that case it wouldn't be just the lawyers bill for sending a C&D.. It would be all the costs for the trial and possibly damages.. And BTW.. The court could decide that the 'company' is the 'guilty party' in which case they will have to pay all the costs.. Ammiright?

Yup.

So it's not no matter what the outcome would be.. Scientology just might have to eat crow.

In theory..

But yes.. It's a billion dollar criminal organization. Caution is mandatory.. And I wouldn't advice any individual to take them on in court.

Well, some people did and even were successful against the cult in court, but it often did take quite a lot out of their resources - not only financially, but also psychically, AFAIK. So people who think about going that route, should make sure that they don't bite off more than they can chew.

 

[Nicole]

I am not an expert too, but I can read.
http://www.frag-einen-anwalt.de/forum_topic.asp?topic_id=43667&
It would be an Unterlassungserklärung. The damage must be financial and it must be a danger of repetition. If I would get one and I won't sign it, the other part could go to a court and sue for it. If I won't sign it the court decide. I would have to pay, if I would lose in front of the court or I sign the "Unterlassungserklärung" and than I have to pay the bill (that what they think, they should get) and it would be an indication for Co$ or the company in a maybe following lawsuit.

That's how I understood that.

But yes.. It's a billion dollar criminal organization. Caution is mandatory.. And I wouldn't advice any individual to take them on in court.

but it exists other ways

 

[MrNobody]

I am not an expert too, but I can read.
http://www.frag-einen-anwalt.de/forum_topic.asp?topic_id=43667&
It would be an Unterlassungserklärung. The damage must be financial and it must be a danger of repetition.

Maybe you should re-read what was said in that link? Nowhere it says the damage must be financial.

If I would get one and I won't sign it, the other part could go to a court and sue for it. If I won't sign it the court decide. I would have to pay, if I would lose in front of the court or I sign the "Unterlassungserklärung" and than I have to pay the bill (that what they think, they should get) and it would be an indication for Co$ or the company in a maybe following lawsuit.

That's how I understood that.

Aus JuraWIKI.de:

UnterlassungsErklärung dient der Ausräumung der WiederholungsGefahr.

<snip>

Die WiederholungsGefahr ist die Besorgnis, es könne nach der erstmaligen Verletzung eines Rechts oder Rechtsgutes zu erneuten Störungen kommen. Nach ständiger Rechtsprechung wird dies nach erstmaliger Verletzung generell vermutet. Wer es einmal tut, der tut es wieder.

So JuraWIKI also doesn't mention financial damages.

This link explains it pretty well, I'd say:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unterlassungserklärung

but it exists other ways

Of course other ways exist - I just find your sloppy interpretation of "legalese" worrying.

 

[AnonyMary]

I would not put too much signigicance into the scientology connection with your father, his job and their harassment of you.

I'm sorry your dad is gone and you have suffered wiith these questions. Let him rest in peace without delving into the past that you cannot easily enter because he's out of whatever he was into.

The moment you started investigating Scn like a journalist, you were on OSA's list in your country. That's what they do. How much damage you do is dependent on your materials getting read widely.

Protesting makes you vulnerable, so do be cautious and try not to do anything of a harassing nature or anything they can claim to be that.

The best revenge is to continue to write and publish these books of yours and get them out widespread in your country. Your thesis is excellent. CArry on!

~ Mary

 

[Nicole]

I would not put too much signigicance into the scientology connection with your father, his job and their harassment of you.

I'm sorry your dad is gone and you have suffered wiith these questions. Let him rest in peace without delving into the past that you cannot easily enter because he's out of whatever he was into.

The moment you started investigating Scn like a journalist, you were on OSA's list in your country. That's what they do. How much damage you do is dependent on your materials getting read widely.

Protesting makes you vulnerable, so do be cautious and try not to do anything of a harassing nature or anything they can claim to be that.

The best revenge is to continue to write and publish these books of yours and get them out widespread in your country. Your thesis is excellent. CArry on!

~ Mary

Thank you Mary!

 

[Krautfag]

On the matter of the famous "Unterlassungserklärung" (Declaration of forebearance, C+D in anglosaxon jurisprudence)...

As has been said before, basically anyone can sent such a thing to anyone else, demanding that the other party stops doing whatever the sender does want to be stopped. There can be fincancial claims attached to that, too.

Typically you will get a letter from a lawyer, claiming that you hurt his client in some way and you ought to sign an "Unterlassungserklärung", stating that you won't do it again and pay damages plus pay his fees. If you sign it, you signed yourself into legal obligation to pay and pay even more if you DO repeat the action in question.
The sending lawyer usually then describes all the fire and brimstone that will hail down on you, if you don't sign.

The course of action to take, if you did nothing wrong, is to send a letter to the lawyer and tell him to stuff his "Unterlassungsklärung" into where the sun never shines. Because then the lawyer and his party have the burden of proof to the court. And getting a German judge or state attorney to open a "Verfahren" (proceeding) with some shitty idiotic claims, like for example the sparrow harrassment case, is nearly impossible in a criminal case and not very well looked upon in a civil case.

 

[Lurker5]

Sorry

Sorry Sauer, I am a bit confused about what you are saying. No need to explain though. I will go back and read again, and keep reading this thread (until I get it).

I get your need to find out what happened.

I did want to mention that I think I know of a 'secret' scilon company - a franchise actually, spread quite far and wide. When I was connected there, as a client, I saw all this stuff that reminded me of scn/cos, but I never made the connection - while I was there.

I never had that much knowledge of the inner workings of scn/cos (before I came to this board). I only had the 'feeling' of it - from my short brush with scn/cos years and years ago. The way this business operated pushed all those memory buttons. It made me uneasy, but I kind of stuffed all that into the back of my mind. I never connected the dots. (duh)

The management was horrendous, cold blooded and money grabbing as in blood sucking carrot on a stick, elitism to entice those not in the elite (YET -but give us more $$ and we'll see) - and so on. Had to pay extra for everything, and were required to buy pertinent materials . . .

They took my money, up front, and it went OK for a little while. Then for some reason, the guy in charge of me, began to seperate me from my classmates, and teach me different stuff, not the stuff I needed to move on with the others. But I learned on my own, what I was not being taught, by watching and getting help from the others. For this, I got held back (Huh? - I did as well as my classmates - huh?). I was ordered NOT TO DO THAT ANYMORE.

Fuck that. I did as I pleased - and learned by watching - studying - and as punishment, I was held back again . . .

THIS really reminded me scn/cos - what little I knew of it (at the time). Ick.
Made me want to vomit. Definitely my nose crinkled up in dislike, but I bit the bullet, and endured. I had paid in full, after-all, and no refunds.

I began to talk about my 'treatment' with my 'friends' there. Ugh oh.

I was fired (in essence) - as a CLIENT - because I held my ground when it came to taking any (more) abuse from management . They wanted to remove me from the group (prevent me from socializing with the others, who were becoming my friends), isolate me, so they could work only with me, to 'rehabilitate' me - as I was 'not getting it'. (Huh? I am doing as well as my mates, what are you talking about?)

I was a paying CLIENT. Never in my life had I been treated this way by a business I was paying to teach me something . . . I was flabberghasted - my mouth fell open, eyebrows raised. Stunned disbelief - WTF????

I said NO THANK YOU (- to their form of rpf).

They don't give refunds, but they offered me one (cheating me out of some of it, of course) just to get rid of me, as I had some blooming friendships and support among the clients - some of whom were beginning to ask questions about how I was being treated . . .

However, all of them disconnected from me when I left.

That hurt, and I did not understand it - then . . .
I still had no idea, had not made a connection - to scn/cos. (duh)

A few years after I left, I found out something regarding one of the friends I had had there. I was shocked (and I am sorry but I cannot tell it, as it would reveal more info about me than I care to release at this time), and I realized the place was probably a scn/cos business - a SECRET scn/cos business . . .

All the disconnected dots began to connect to form a very clear picture for me. My intuition had been right on the nail head. SCN/COS.

I had no idea that businesses COULD BE scn/cos connected, until that moment. And I still was not sure (but it sure scared the hell out of me and I began to look into it . . . quietly, secretly - as I DID know what they do to people like me who get too 'loud' - they'd already done some of it, when I was mentally fucked with and then 'off-loaded' from that 'business' . . . ).

When I came here (a few years after that), I realized these types of business, scn/cos connected businesses, are all over the place.

But they are not usually SECRET, right? This one was secret. I am sure of it.

THIS IS WHY.

I don't need to tell you the name of the business. I have no proof - and we all know how scn/cos sues - so let me just say this. You don't need to know the name of the business - if it smells like shit, it is shit - if it feels like scn/cos - it is also shit - get the hell out.

The biggest problem is that people going in, do not know that until they are already in. Gotta be willing to let the money go - and just get the frick out. Even I was not in a frame of mind to let them rob me, and so I endured a lot of mental abuse/torture. IF I HAD KNOWN at the time that I was dealing with scn/cos, I'd have gotten the hell out - IMMEDIATELY.

I learned another life changing lesson, one I will NEVER forget. Scn/cos put ANOTHER spark of fire in me. It may scare the crap out of me, but this also puts another steel rod of anger in me - towards it.

It just makes me, my opposition towards scn/cos - STRONGER.

THIS IS WHY.