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Neuro-Linguistic Programming

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Neuro Plasticity~

I've always sort of taken NLP as a bit of a given, like brainwashing and conditioning, that the more you repeat something the deeper it gets imbedded.
This research gives sheds some new light on why NLP, cult programming, and the methods of mind-fuckery that Hubbard 'created' from the cobbled debris of many others, works the way it does. It also explains how we can heal our own brains, deal with obsession, fears, physical damage of neoro pathways (due to cancers and strokes etc.), all the fun things.
Enjoy, discuss, if a slight derail I apologise, but this is cutting edge and interesting stuff.
http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/natureofthings/2008/brainchangesitself/
 
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VaD

Gold Meritorious Patron
at3ist, great exchange!

We might ask each other, "What school do you belong to?" before we start sharing our inner beliefs.
In the end, Who cares? - It's been between you and you. Between me and me.

NLP, having been used for the good or for the bad, has not been responsible. Knowledge, data are not responsible for what people do with it.

We just got been made to think that it's "psychs technology against humans". - To me, it's BS.
To me, NLP is just another way to go about Life.

And! We have to learn NLP ways to effect people as a new technology - since it affects us in our everyday life.
 

at3ist

Patron with Honors
NLP is just software to me, I recommend it to people just as that, Good software to deal with things.

Software as any other stuff you are lead to believe. At the end you are the one responsible to run the software to help yourself. Cuz there are cases like in everything else, that will run the software to fuck themselves and others. The same with softwares that are fuck up in itselfs as SCN, and some people will run them for good.

In other words NLP or any other subject IMO should not be put as a end product that everybody has to learn in order to save mankind or something, They have no utility within themselves.

An in the end you're not just software. and in my experience and from other teachings, software is the last thing we are.
 

Lone_Stranger

New Member
Putting the record straight

Neither Scientology nor NLP has subjected themself to peer review. Both NLP and Scientology have trademark protection and secrecy.

Once again, an attack on the FoNLP by someone who clearly knows nothing about it.

(Sorry, I realise this person is a senior member, but unfortunately that doesn't mean s/he can't make mistakes.)

1. NLP is a specific modelling technique, nothing else.

2. Critics who make sweeping generalizations about whatever it is they think of as "NLP" are "ten a penny". The question here is: Which SPECIFIC techniques are the same in Scientology and the FoNLP.

(The FONLP is the "field of NLP". It includes the modelling technique, a host of related concepts and techniques and concepts, and training in NLP and/or any of the related techniques and concepts.)

Derren Brown (and other skeptics) criticize it for this reason. I have heard Derren Brown say (of NLP) their MIGHT be something there, but nobody knows because it is a closed system.

Interesting - but twaddle. There is NO copyright on "NLP" or "Neuro-Linguistic Programming". And virtually all of the authentic techniques have appeared in books you can purchase on Amazon.

Why Derren Brown says what Derren Brown says, or is alleged to have said, is only known to Derren Brown. Since he was neither a co-creator or developer of the field I don't really see what relevance this has to determining what the FoNLP is really about.

My guess is that NLP is a money making cult which has just borrowed off of Milton Erikkson (like every most others with 'new' ideas in hypnosis). Hubbard pilfered from Erikkson, including the confusion technique. His lectures are riddled with it.

Oh dear!

Milton Erickson's name is NOT spelt with two "k's". And "NLP" is NOT a cult.
Andy Bradbury's site has some relevant comments about the latter point, too:

http://www.bradburyac.mistral.co.uk/nlpfax23.htm

As to "borrowing", the co-creators - Bandler, Grinder and Pucelik - made it clear that they were building on other people's work right from the first book on the subject - 'The Structure of Magic I', published in 1975 (the acknowledgement is at the start of the bibliography).

In fact they "borrowed" from Erickson, Virginia Satir, Fritz Perls, Noam Chomsky, George Miller, the field of cybernetics, etc., etc., etc.

In fact one of the reasons why the authentic FoNLP is such good value for money is because it is based on techniques that were already in use by people who were recognised by their contemporaries as being outstanding exponents of the skills B, G and P modelled them for.

Oops, I nearly forgot. There are two sides to the "peer review" question. And guess who has covered the subject:

See http://www.bradburyac.mistral.co.uk/nlpfax22.htm

for research relating to the FoNLP, especially in relation to education

See http://www.bradburyac.mistral.co.uk/nlpfax21.htm

for an example of two people using linguistic techniques found in the FoNLP in an attempt to trash the FoNLP

See: http://www.bradburyac.mistral.co.uk/nlpfax28.htm

for details of a number of supposedly "scientific" studies of the FoNLP

And see http://www.bradburyac.mistral.co.uk/norcross.html

for a sidebar in that article which has some fairly uncompromising comments on the real value of "peer reviewing" by the editor of an internationally-recognised peer reviewed medical journal.

:whistling:
 
NLP is a useful tool if kept in perspective. Unfortunately some of the seminars you talk of rely on creating a frenzy type of enthusiasm that is not sustainable. Some can be quite cult like.



I know someone like Derren Brown who, without any training, instinctively uses NLP and hypnosis in an incredibly effective form. This person has since done some courses because when someone told him what he was doing, he wanted to learn more. The courses did nothing but give him terms to what he was doing.

This person was able to notice and take in many cues from peoples face, body, voice etc and process them almost instantaneously. If you showed him one of those “find the differences” puzzles with two pictures, he only needed to see both pictures for one second, then you could take one picture away and he would point out all twenty differences. And he does not have a photographic memory, but noticed and filed the differences away in his brain inside the second.

Strange thing was, give him a page out of a book and it would take him 5 minutes to read it and he would still make many mistakes. He did not pass the courses in NLP because he could not read well enough to complete exams and learn all the explanations.

Nothing superhuman about him, he is just wired differently. On the outer edge of the distribution graph on certain normal human abilities.

This person might have been slightly dyslexic...several dyslexics I have known are GREAT at pattern recognition, and at reading people's faces and moods, body language, reading a crowd, etc. I would agree that they are hard-wired to be better at this than most.
 
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