new member introductions

[jungincheek]

Hello everybody,
I've never been on a message board before--hope I'm doing it right.
After 30+ years I'm out of $ci.... but "in the closet"
I still have kids in the cult. I was forced to disconnect from my mother. I don't want to lose my kids althought it might be perfect karma--poetic justice. The thought of losing my kids makes my heart ache. I want to protect them and give them the truth but I'm so afraid they'll just shut the door on me and not even listen. Anybody have any advice? In the mean time I'm using English to express myself and learning how to think without the veil of terror that I might step outside of what I'm permitted to think. On one hand I feel so much better but on the other I worry about my kids and losing them. Thanks for reading this.

 

[Tiger Lily]

Jungin to the ESMB.

You came to the right place. You will find a very supportive community here, and find people who have been where you are. I think you'll get great advice.

Glad you are here,
-TL

 

[scooter]

to ESMB.

I was in your position when I first decided to leave but had not yet been able to handle my wife - it's scary to say the least.

My advice is:

Stay in touch with your kids. They will have seen the wrongnesses but not looked at them - just gently get them to look.

From there, it starts to get easier.

 

[Thrak]

Hi and welcome jungincheek! You're in the right place. Sorry about the situation with your kids. Hopefully this nightmare is over for everybody soon.

 

[Feral]

Welcome.!!!!

My advice is to reconnect with your mother if it's not too late. Using 'her influence' over you as an excuse proceed to handle your kids in order to inform them of the true nature of scn. If it fails at least you will have set that right with your mum.

Be brave but plan each move, expose your self as little as possible as you gradiently guide them to look, use the tech you know on ARC and dissemination in order to communicate with them.

The data in this letter is a summary of what I used to help several people, please note; it does NOT criticize LRH or the tech, they are the last 'bridges' an apostate crosses and are the hardest. But a blind man can be brought to see that the CofS is batshit crazy!

OH yeah, and good luck!.

 

[Megalomaniac]

A few months ago, I was very scared and upset. I achieved certainty by carefully and thoroughly writing what I believed and what I rejected. Then I just came out with it. I don't have kids to lose. But I do risk losing my mother.

One of the things I rejected was Disconnection. Just don't go into agreement with it. So the Church tells your kids to disconnect. So what. Disconnection is a grade school playground cruel teasing game. Treat it as such.

Welcome!
Mac

 

[sallydannce]

Welcome Jungincheek!

Yep you got your message onto the message board just fine. Like you, this board was (still is) my first message board experience.

You are warmly welcome on ESMB.

 

[Carmel]

Welcome Jungincheek!

I understand your scenario, not a nice one. I agree with Feral - contact your mum (on the quiet) and make it right with her. It wouldn't be perfect karma or poetic justice to lose ya kids at all - you have obviously been paying for what went down with your mum, and no-one deserves to lose their kids.

Tread lightly on whatever steps you take. One needs to step up and change their situation when they are in one like yours, but there are ways to go about it that will prevent unnecessary harm.

I'm wondering how old are your kids are, and whether it's them that could possibly disconnect from you, or it's that their other parent would make that happen. Feel free to pm me.

At least you will have support amongst this group here - glad that you found ESMB.

Carmel

 

[Happy Aberree]

Welcome!!

One of the things I rejected was Disconnection. Just don't go into agreement with it. So the Church tells your kids to disconnect. So what. Disconnection is a grade school playground cruel teasing game. Treat it as such.

Welcome!
Mac

That's right on the money.

Welcome to ESMB Jungincheek. You are in the right place , believe me.


HAB

 

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

welcome





It would be easy to be

or

Just take it slowly. 30+ years in ... it's a big change.

 

[Kathy (ImOut)]

Welcome, Jungincheek.

When I decided to leave, I sat my daughter down and told her what my disagreements were. Believe it or not, she was in the same place. She'd actually been out and hadn't told me. She still hangs with a lot of Scns (her friends for years). They all know I've been declared - they made sure my declare notice got to the mission most of these kids were connected with. They also know she's still very much in comm with me and they could all care less.

So, if your kids aren't actually in the SO or on staff, try just having a conversation with them. They may see the light.

 

[airhead]

Welcome, JunginCHeek,

Love that user name!!

I'm new too, but am completely aware of your predicament, seeing as how I'd lose almost half my family if I were to officially "come out".

If your kids are on staff, in the SO, or are very dedicated, this is my advice to you (for what it's worth):

Fair-roads-good-weather works both ways.

If you are dinging your kids with bad or doubtful news about Scn, you WILL upset them, and their local technies/ethics officers WILL catch on, and then your kids WILL be forced to choose between you and their "eternal survival".

Why put them through that?

Fair roads and good weather works BOTH ways. Be nice to your kids. Be interested in them and what they have to say. And live a good life and BE HAPPY -- be an example to your kids.

In this way, you will make it safe for them to originate to you.

WAIT FOR THEIR ORIGINATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If they're smart, and if you're happy, this WILL HAPPEN AS LONG AS YOU ARE
ABLE TO MAINTAIN A COMMUNICATION LINE TO THEM.

Don't try to feed them a "cognition" -- you'll just get them on ethics lines, which is the fastest route to a disconnection.

Your survival does NOT depend on getting your kids to disconnect from Scientology, and you WILL be miserable if they are forced to disconnect from you.

 

[Feral]

Welcome, JunginCHeek,

Love that user name!!

I'm new too, but am completely aware of your predicament, seeing as how I'd lose almost half my family if I were to officially "come out".

If your kids are on staff, in the SO, or are very dedicated, this is my advice to you (for what it's worth):

Fair-roads-good-weather works both ways.

If you are dinging your kids with bad or doubtful news about Scn, you WILL upset them, and their local technies/ethics officers WILL catch on, and then your kids WILL be forced to choose between you and their "eternal survival".

Why put them through that?

Fair roads and good weather works BOTH ways. Be nice to your kids. Be interested in them and what they have to say. And live a good life and BE HAPPY -- be an example to your kids.

In this way, you will make it safe for them to originate to you.

WAIT FOR THEIR ORIGINATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If they're smart, and if you're happy, this WILL HAPPEN AS LONG AS YOU ARE
ABLE TO MAINTAIN A COMMUNICATION LINE TO THEM.

Don't try to feed them a "cognition" -- you'll just get them on ethics lines, which is the fastest route to a disconnection.

Your survival does NOT depend on getting your kids to disconnect from Scientology, and you WILL be miserable if they are forced to disconnect from you.

I'm very sure OSA would fully endorse this approach of 'no approach'

 

[Wisened One]

to ESMB, Jungincheek!

I know that's gotta be a tough situation!

What I'm learning tho is that there are ways to stay connected to loved ones/friends that are in, on friendly terms, Read Feral's letter, it's really a good example.

I've got a friend who still in and I've told her that we are no longer interested in scn in friendly ways in mid-conversation kinda thing, she just says: 'That's too bad' and we just go on chatting about other stuff just fine!

So there are ways to do that with family, too..while at the same time talking gentle things with them here and there about how happy you are being out, etc..


Michelle

 

[Tiger Lily]

I'm very sure OSA would fully endorse this approach of 'no approach'

Feral I've read your Christmas letter and it's amazing; and I know that you are getting such great response, and I'm actually thoroughly impressed that you had the "cahunas" to do that. It's the perfect vehicle to get the attention of people who already have doubts. I hope more people do what you are doing for your friends in Scientology.

But I think what Airhead is talking about is a little more touchy in that when it's your kids, the stakes are soooo much higher. I can fully understand why you would approach this one with kid gloves. If you get too Out-R (so sorry to use the terminology, but it's a fast way to say it) with them, you may lose the very comm line that they will need when they start to have doubts and need someone to talk to.

Jungincheek and Airhead I hope this works out well for you. It's a tightrope walk I'm sure.

-TL

 

[airhead]

Feral I've read your Christmas letter and it's amazing; and I know that you are getting such great response, and I'm actually thoroughly impressed that you had the "cahunas" to do that. It's the perfect vehicle to get the attention of people who already have doubts. I hope more people do what you are doing for your friends in Scientology.

But I think what Airhead is talking about is a little more touchy in that when it's your kids, the stakes are soooo much higher. I can fully understand why you would approach this one with kid gloves. If you get too Out-R (so sorry to use the terminology, but it's a fast way to say it) with them, you may lose the very comm line that they will need when they start to have doubts and need someone to talk to.

Jungincheek and Airhead I hope this works out well for you. It's a tightrope walk I'm sure.

-TL

Thank you, TL, this is precisely what I mean.

Feral, I am not familiar with your previous postings, but I am sure that you have good experience with this.

It's just when your kids and family are involved... the comm line itself is senior to anything else. Or at least that is what I believe.

 

[Tiger Lily]

Feral, I am not familiar with your previous postings, but I am sure that you have good experience with this.

He does Airhead -- it's very worth your time to look up his Christmas Letter for starters.

-TL

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Getting a scientologist to look.. Maybe this.. As a 'can opener'.

Faq's Org / FAQ: Scientology Codes and Creeds

Quoting 'The Creed of the Church of Scientology', relevant snippets:

We of the Church believe:

That all men have inalienable rights to their own religious
practices and their performance;

That all men have inalienable rights to their own lives;

<snip>

That all men have inalienable rights to conceive, choose, assist
or support their own organizations, churches and governments;

That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk
freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter
or write upon the opinions of others;

<snip>

And that no agency less than God has the power to suspend or set
aside these rights, overtly or covertly.

<snip>

We must insist that the above means what it says! - Nowhere does it say that there is a 'duty' to be a scientologist or support that group. What it does say, is that we have a right to choose and that right is inalienable.

And I'll grab the right to not chose as well.. Even if that is not mentioned.

And the bit about our right to think, speak and write freely. Also inalienable.. And these rights are given us by Hubbard himself are they not? (Else we would damn well take 'em ourselves..)

The last quoted point may give us pause to think.. Did Hubbard believe he was God?

 

[Feral]

Feral I've read your Christmas letter and it's amazing; and I know that you are getting such great response, and I'm actually thoroughly impressed that you had the "cahunas" to do that. It's the perfect vehicle to get the attention of people who already have doubts. I hope more people do what you are doing for your friends in Scientology.

But I think what Airhead is talking about is a little more touchy in that when it's your kids, the stakes are soooo much higher. I can fully understand why you would approach this one with kid gloves. If you get too Out-R (so sorry to use the terminology, but it's a fast way to say it) with them, you may lose the very comm line that they will need when they start to have doubts and need someone to talk to.

Jungincheek and Airhead I hope this works out well for you. It's a tightrope walk I'm sure.

-TL

Factually a great number of the people who have left have also gotten their children out. I know and have helped quite a few. The stakes are higher but the job is all the more important for the very same reason. What parent could leave their kids exposed to the abuse of the cult that we all know is rampant?

ESMB has been the center of a scientology exodus unseen in scale since the GAT. I'm very certain OSA is in progress on a plan to shut that exodus down.

Their tactic? Who knows, but to shudder parents into silence would have to be a key part of it, perhaps with the heightened threat of 'disconnection' so be sure you are not forwarding an OSA strat with your advice Airhead. The idea of doing nothing until the person originates would better suit a scientology dissemination campaign IMO.

 

[Kookaburra]

Welcome, Jungincheek!

I think the good roads, good weather advice is good. Don't let the comm line break down, whatever you do. But you could kinda feel around for what your kids have noticed that they consider to be outpoints, and converse on that point. They will have noticed things, and are probably not saying anything for the same reasons you are.

Creed violations are rampant, as are WTH violations. If you can show them LRH writings that point out the flagrant crimes and out tech extant in the Co$ at the moment, so much the better. They'd have a hard time telling your kids to disconnect from you for showing them an LRH reference!

There are many people in the Co$ at the moment that are simply there because of the threats and repercussions that would come their way if they said they were out. Your own family may be closet wogs, you never know.

Good luck with your situation. There are plenty of people to help you here.