Nothing in Scientology will change

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

I went for a walk today and I saw Debbie Cook’s picture on the front page of the St. Petersburg Times (It changed its name to the Tampa Bay Times on January 1st).

So I came to the board to see what's Cookin".

While the Debbie Cook situation is interesting and entertaining, I don’t think anything will change.

The “Cookies” and “Clams” and “Out R’s” (the Rathbun and Rinder supporters outside the Church) are just different recipes with the same ingredients.

The essence of the Scientology philosophy is just spiritual Nietzscheism.

It is about totalitarianism and domination.

Tone 40 is Will to Power, OT is Ubermensch, there is no such thing as Truth, and might makes right is the only morality.

Whether the tactics favor a kinder and gentler domination, or a hero-worship domination, or any other domination tactic, the goal is still domination.

What holds various Scientology groups together and what they all have in common is the Will to Power; one accepts domination from the bigger beings above them and exercises one’s right to dominate the ones beneath them.

The current and future struggles between Miscavige and Rathbun and soon Debbie Cook and others is not about freeing the slaves; it is about who will become the top slave-master.

The meanest one will win and will keep Scientology working.

And if Miscavige is ever replaced, he will be replaced by someone more ruthless who dominates others more.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Gottabrain]

Au Contraire, TAJ.

It is all falling apart, the center cannot hold, it is based on lies.

Fasten your seatbelts, everyone.

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold

- William Butler Yeats

 

[Type4_PTS]

I also find the Debbie Cook situation immensely entertaining, but would have to agree that nothing substantial will change within the CoS.

They'll do a program to make scientologists BELIEVE that there are major changes and that suppression is now being taken off the lines, and a new Golden Age of Scientology is upon them. But Scientology will remain a totalitarian cult as it is now.

 

[Gadfly]

I also find the Debbie Cook situation immensely entertaining, but would have to agree that nothing substantial will change within the CoS.

They'll do a program to make scientologists BELIEVE that there are major changes and that suppression is now being taken off the lines, and a new Golden Age of Scientology is upon them. But Scientology will remain a totalitarian cult as it is now.

So true!

Endless PR and NO Product!

THAT has been the mantra for Scientology since it began.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. - Pete Townsend, The Who, "Won't Get Fooled Again"

It will be just more smoke and mirrors, with Scientology people and situations pretending to be other than what they actually are.

Same 'ole same 'ole . . . .

 

[Mick Wenlock]

And if Miscavige is ever replaced, he will be replaced by someone more ruthless who dominates others more.

The Anabaptist Jacques

too true - and just had to interject that this reminds me of THHGTTG

"If anyone is to discover exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarrely inexplicable.

There is another theory which states this has already happened"

 

[Mystic]

The greatest change will be:


[size=+5]MOAR NATTER![/size]

 

[Gottabrain]

But the MONEY! Governments want money!

I'm sure the US gov finds Debbie Cook's statement of billions of dollars stashed away unspent extremely interesting. Their own search engines for drug and money trafficking, etc. would have regurgitated this immediately.

COS' recent interest in parishioners' monies from the Middle East only intensifies the interest.

There is always a bigger shark in the water. Dictators replace dictators. Gobble gobble, COS, NOW you've really got the attention you craved....

 

[Smilla]

Scientology is nothing but Hubbard's mental enslavement method. It was designed to be that from the start, and will never be - could never be, anything else.

Curiously, it makes the slave believe that he is more free than a free man.

CofS Cult
Free zone Cult
Independent Cult

Same product - different packaging.

CofS Cult + Free zone Cult + Independent Cult = TheGreater Cult of Hubbard

Status, conformity, and maintainance of control.

Read my sig line.

 

[Smilla]

I went for a walk today and I saw Debbie Cook’s picture on the front page of the St. Petersburg Times (It changed its name to the Tampa Bay Times on January 1st).

So I came to the board to see what's Cookin".

While the Debbie Cook situation is interesting and entertaining, I don’t think anything will change.

The “Cookies” and “Clams” and “Out R’s” (the Rathbun and Rinder supporters outside the Church) are just different recipes with the same ingredients.

The essence of the Scientology philosophy is just spiritual Nietzscheism.

It is about totalitarianism and domination.

Tone 40 is Will to Power, OT is Ubermensch, there is no such thing as Truth, and might makes right is the only morality.

Whether the tactics favor a kinder and gentler domination, or a hero-worship domination, or any other domination tactic, the goal is still domination.

What holds various Scientology groups together and what they all have in common is the Will to Power; one accepts domination from the bigger beings above them and exercises one’s right to dominate the ones beneath them.

The current and future struggles between Miscavige and Rathbun and soon Debbie Cook and others is not about freeing the slaves; it is about who will become the top slave-master.

The meanest one will win and will keep Scientology working.

And if Miscavige is ever replaced, he will be replaced by someone more ruthless who dominates others more.

The Anabaptist Jacques

You are so right.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Scientology is nothing but Hubbard's mental enslavement method. It was designed to be that from the start, and will never be - could never be, anything else.

Curiously, it makes the slave believe that he is more free than a free man.

And as Goethe remarked:

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Johann_Wolfgang_von_Goethe

 

[Mark A. Baker]

... While the Debbie Cook situation is interesting and entertaining, I don’t think anything will change. ...

... The essence of the Scientology philosophy is just spiritual Nietzscheism. ...

Even if that were true (it isn't) that still would not be a 'bad' thing, TAJ. Nietzsche's philosophical works have a lot of value. Fascist misrepresentations were just that, misrepresentations due to deliberate distortions & misconceptions.


Mark A. Baker

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Even if that were true (it isn't) that still would not be a 'bad' thing, TAJ. Nietzsche's philosophical works have a lot of value. Fascist misrepresentations were just that, misrepresentations due to deliberate distortions & misconceptions.


Mark A. Baker

What the fascist drew from Nietzsche's works were easily and logical derived.

Nietzsche didn't say do this and do that; he wasn't prosciptive like Hubbard.

But what the fascist drew from Nietzsche was the idea that might makes right, the will to power being the essence of life, and that the Ubermensh must evolve above the morality of others.

Yes, people misrepresent what Nietzsche said. Yes, people misrepresent what Hubbard said.

Yes, there are many Nietzsche apologist. Yes, there are many Hubbard apologists.

But what the fascist derived from Nietzsche was just as deriveable as what you and many others correctly derive from Hubbard.

There are nuanced differences in how things are interpreted.

But the fascists did not make a big leap in their interpetation of Nietzsche.

I invite anyone to read what he wrote and see what they think.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Thrak]

Actually I think things will change. They are in a situation of change or die. So if they don't change they will die which is also a form of change.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

What the fascist drew from Nietzsche's works were easily and logical derived.

Nietzsche didn't say do this and do that; he wasn't prosciptive like Hubbard.

But what the fascist drew from Nietzsche was the idea that might makes right, the will to power being the essence of life, and that the Ubermensh must evolve above the morality of others.

Yes, people misrepresent what Nietzsche said. Yes, people misrepresent what Hubbard said.

Yes, there are many Nietzsche apologist. Yes, there are many Hubbard apologists.

But what the fascist derived from Nietzsche was just as deriveable as what you and many others correctly derive from Hubbard.

There are nuanced differences in how things are interpreted.

But the fascists did not make a big leap in their interpetation of Nietzsche.

I invite anyone to read what he wrote and see what they think.

The Anabaptist Jacques

hey hey hey!

welcome back taj!

you ok?

some poster suggested your recent hiatus might be related to health

nietzsche was only able to line up five consonants in his surname. heber manages six. and furthermore jentzsch is a single syllable

nietzsche is a double shot of whiskey in the wine spritzer world of philosophy. the nazis are good example of what happens when you give whiskey to people who can't hold their liquor. the old valkyrie makes the cut but his concept of the will to power can be somewhat problematic in the absence of the higher wills, the will to meaning and the will to self-transcendance essential to the artist and the saint

 

[LA SCN]

TAJ you are so right, I believe - nothing will happen, unfortunately.

The ESMB members are so repeatedly galvanized by the comm of these high profile defectors and would be reformers, I'd think they would learn some wait and see before calling it the end. Look at what has gone before and yet the Cof$ persists, and in the view of the True Believers, stronger than ever.

Defusing Debbie Cooks' attack will be a piece of cake for DM: she had overts against the entirety of scn and command strata as captain of flag service org and thus must attack it and them; she is attacking dissemination, a typical suppressive act and is attacking the church in a manner she knew would go public - she's just another sp squirrel screaming and proof that the church is really winning!

This won't be the end of the Cof$.

I so hope I'm wrong!

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Scientology is nothing but Hubbard's mental enslavement method. It was designed to be that from the start, and will never be - could never be, anything else.

Curiously, it makes the slave believe that he is more free than a free man.

CofS Cult
Free zone Cult
Independent Cult

Same product - different packaging.

CofS Cult + Free zone Cult + Independent Cult = TheGreater Cult of Hubbard

Status, conformity, and maintainance of control.

Read my sig line.

Bingo !

 

[Rene Descartes]

I am not familiar with this Nietzsche as the rest of you

Did Nietzsche ever say make money, make money, make more money, get others to make more money?

Did Nietzsche ever make up something similar to Fair Game?

Did Nietzsche ever sacrifice a wife to the wolves?

Did Nietzsche ever claim to be a nucleur scientist and medico?

Did Nietzsche ever write about Piltdown Man?

Rd00

 

[Bea Kiddo]

Scientologists believe that the more they are attacked, the more it shows they are expanding and doing the right thing.

Tightening up on them does NOTHING but affirm their beliefs.

LRH developed an airtight system to keep the culties going.

It took a lot for me to finally see through it.

It can only be done one person at a time. The cult as a whole will never come crashing down. Ever.

 

[Gadfly]

Scientologists believe that the more they are attacked, the more it shows they are expanding and doing the right thing.

Tightening up on them does NOTHING but affirm their beliefs.

Yeah, I remember how they would twist "being attacked" into "yeah, wow, we are really pissing the SPs off, because we are making so much TA in the world"!

LRH developed an airtight system to keep the culties going.

Maybe not "airtight", but when compared to ANY other "cult", yes, probably the tighest in terms of "entrapment factor".

It took a lot for me to finally see through it.

It can only be done one person at a time. The cult as a whole will never come crashing down. Ever.

Sadly, you may be right.

But the number of "one at time" leaving can always go faster!

 

[Gadfly]

Actually I think things will change. They are in a situation of change or die. So if they don't change they will die which is also a form of change.

I don't think that they can change. Hubbard set the whole thing up so that 1) the subject is exactly workable just as it is, and that 2) any attempts to change (alter, add to, take away from) any aspect of Hubbard's writings or lectures is viewed as suppressive. Hubbard rigged it so that the subject materials of Scientology are beyond questioning of any sort.

As a result it is impossible for them to "introspect". The group and individual Scientologists are incapable of directing the light of questioning or criticism upon themselves. They are insanely "extroverted". The assumed condition, the taken-for-granted "truth" is that everything Hubbard wrote is exactly perfect, and the ONLY allowed response is to 1) UNDERSTAND it, 2) AGREE with it, and 3) APPLY IT. That is Scientology. Hubbard designed it and set it up that way. There are no other acceptable options within the framework of Scientology.

Imagine that. Imagine a person who is completely unable to look at oneself questioningly in any way. Humanity has largely evolved and moved forward because it has been able to look at itself, to question itself, to aim the light of criticism upon itself, and to correct earlier bad or non-survival behavior (to some degree). All personal growth derives from LOOKING AT YOURSELF HONESTLY and taking actions to correct and better what you find.

But Scientologists and Scientology cannot do that. Never. That disability has been carefully woven into the subject by Hubbard.

In the same way, the Church cannot truly change. They are stuck forever chained to Hubbard's "body of data". And, this will act as the cement block that pulls them down to drown under the turbulant waters of ever-growing questioning and criticism of their policies and behaviors.

When any organism cannot change or adapt to new environments, they die. Simple "survival of the fittest". Hubbard set it up so that Scientology cannot ever change or adapt. His whole philosophy of Scientology involved "making the environment conform to MY wishes and goals", by "enacting greater and greater cause through greater and greater responsibility over any environment". Cute theory, but it doesn't work in real life. Oooops, it's not "workable"!