On Bullshit

[Udarnik]

I've been busy as hell personally and professionally lately and have not had time to even peruse the posts each day. However, a colleague just sent me this academic article (truly), and I thought it was a good deconstruction of some of the cheese in the trap of $cientology. To wit:

Whereas philosophers have been primarily concerned with the goals and intentions of the bullshitter, we are interested in the factors that predispose one to become or to resist becoming a bullshittee.

and

Put differently, some individuals may have an excessively “open” mind that biases them to make inflated judgments of profundity, regardless
of the content.


The second mechanism relates to a potential inability to detect bullshit, which may cause one to confuse vagueness for profundity. In the words of Sperber (2010): “All too often, what readers do is judge profound what they have failed to grasp” (p. 583).

 

[Little David]

A funny, very short and well written book:

 

[Enthetan]

A funny, very short and well written book:

You can even read it online.

http://www.stoa.org.uk/topics/bullshit/pdf/on-bullshit.pdf

 

[Student of Trinity]

If I don't understand something, then it could be because it's simple but I'm stupid, or because I'm smart but it's profound. I think I understand why I might prefer the second possibility to the first.

But the third possibility is that the thing is just bullshit. So why do some people prefer the second possibility over this third possibility? That's an interesting question.

My own feeling is that it's not always easy to recognize the premise — to tell when I don't understand something — because there are different degrees of understanding. There's the understanding that I feel I have when I hear something, and I feel comfortable in nodding my head and accepting it: "Yeah, that sounds reasonable, it's probably something like that." And there's the understanding that I need to have in order to teach something clearly. The second is a much better understanding. The experience of trying to teach clearly helps one not to be a bullshittee, because you learn how hard it is to be clear. When you find how much bullshitting you end up doing yourself, even when you're trying to just be clear, you start expecting the world to be full of bullshit.

My theory is that some people have gotten used to nodding their heads a lot, and have little experience with really clearly understanding anything at all. So they have lost sight of what understanding even means; all they retain is a sort of filter that recognizes certain patterns of language as sounding profound. So when they read or hear bullshit, they don't understand it, but they don't understand that they are not understanding it.

Thinking that way must be kind of like typing in oven mitts.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

I tend to view most things (these days) as BS.

It keeps life simple, which is the way I like it.

I don't get sold into things but if I actually need something important, I have to apply myself to it, usually discreetly because I don't want input from others unless I ask for it ... if something feels right it's a good start but that only takes care of the initial interest and it's dependent upon how much (whatever it is) actually matters to me whether I take it further or not.

Joining ESMB was a good example of that ... it felt so right to me from day one, but it was going to be life changing ... so I still took 9 months to actually join and post and then I threw myself into it fully and have never regretted it for a moment.

Clear, straightforward speak may get my attention, waffle and padding certainly won't, other than to make me suspicious.

Trust no longer applies even with people who I should be able to trust ... these days so many "professionals" are working on some form of kick back or commission based salary ... and they don't always have to disclose that important detail and many people in positions of power are just plain stupid.

Simplifying life where possible has freed up attention for the things that actually matter and I suppose my BS detector is always turned on, though it may not be obvious to anyone else unless they know me ... because I can BS with the best of them myself when I feel the need.

There are people (including on this board) who I would trust with my life ... (I'm not a complete cynic).

I believe we all need to have people in our lives that we feel safe with and hopefully feel similarly with us.

 

[strativarius]

It would be nice to go through life with one's head in the clouds believing that everything was hunky-dory, but I happen to think that having a cynical outlook is a much healthier attitude. My parents were deferential, trusting and took things at face value, and I spent my childhood having inherited that mindset. That was a big big mistake, and it took me a long time to learn what I have managed to learn about the way the world really works and learn that we're besieged by bs from all sides.

Politicians bs us, businesses bs us and even our friends bs us when it suits their purposes.

One of my favourite books was Ambrose Bierce's 'Devils Dictionary'. Highly recommended!

 

[MrNobody]

It would be nice to go through life with one's head in the clouds believing that everything was hunky-dory, but I happen to think that having a cynical outlook is a much healthier attitude. My parents were deferential, trusting and took things at face value, and I spent my childhood having inherited that mindset. That was a big big mistake, and it took me a long time to learn what I have managed to learn about the way the world really works and learn that we're besieged by bs from all sides.

Politicians bs us, businesses bs us and even our friends bs us when it suits their purposes.

One of my favourite books was Ambrose Bierce's 'Devils Dictionary'. Highly recommended!

As far as politicians and businesses go, I'd expect them to attempt to bullshit me - how else could they make a living?

As far as my TRUE friends go: None of 'em has ever attempted to bullshit me. At least not deliberately. I hope it stays that way.

 

[DagwoodGum]

I used to take the easy way out by assuming everything was bullshit when I first got out but found that if it's a 50/50 proposition that something is bullshit then I have only a 50% chance of being right. I know that it's all an over simplification for being only half right but I found it was an unacceptable success rate. Call me egotistical but I needed a better system than that, if there was one. Still haven't found a better system so now it's the system itself that I stay away from, just from past experience.

 

[Little David]

You can even read it online.

http://www.stoa.org.uk/topics/bullshit/pdf/on-bullshit.pdf

This is an important fine press book published by Princeton University Press. It is essential to read, own and share it in this original format

 

[Gib]

As far as politicians and businesses go, I'd expect them to attempt to bullshit me - how else could they make a living?

As far as my TRUE friends go: None of 'em has ever attempted to bullshit me. At least not deliberately. I hope it stays that way.

May I add COS religion or before " Dianetics: the Modern Science of Mental Health"?

The word "modern" is a clever word play by Hubbard, as "modern" implies all time.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/modern

 

[RandomCat]

I've been busy as hell personally and professionally lately and have not had time to even peruse the posts each day. However, a colleague just sent me this academic article (truly), and I thought it was a good deconstruction of some of the cheese in the trap of $cientology. To wit:

Whereas philosophers have been primarily concerned with the goals and intentions of the bullshitter, we are interested in the factors that predispose one to become or to resist becoming a bullshittee.

and

Put differently, some individuals may have an excessively “open” mind that biases them to make inflated judgments of profundity, regardless
of the content.


The second mechanism relates to a potential inability to detect bullshit, which may cause one to confuse vagueness for profundity. In the words of Sperber (2010): “All too often, what readers do is judge profound what they have failed to grasp” (p. 583).

I didn't understand some of the language and statistics from the article you linked here... which isn't much of a problem, I understood the gist of it.
It did cross my mind for a moment, that the author could have been dishing out "Pseudo-profound bullshit" and I wouldn't have caught it!!... Actually that would have made a pretty good joke/prank.

 

[strativarius]

As far as politicians and businesses go, I'd expect them to attempt to bullshit me - how else could they make a living?

I ran a business selling vinyl records and collectable rock memorabilia on the Internet (mainly eBay). I don't think I would have got very far bullshitting people.

As far as my TRUE friends go: None of 'em has ever attempted to bullshit me. At least not deliberately. I hope it stays that way.

My friends were much more fun.

 

[Teanntás]

I used to take the easy way out by assuming everything was bullshit when I first got out but found that if it's a 50/50 proposition that something is bullshit then I have only a 50% chance of being right. I know that it's all an over simplification for being only half right but I found it was an unacceptable success rate. Call me egotistical but I needed a better system than that, if there was one. Still haven't found a better system so now it's the system itself that I stay away from, just from past experience.

We know the world through our sensory system - a different sensory system would reveal a different world. Which of these worlds would be 'true'? Is 'bullshit' on a spectrum which would include warnings about it?

 

[DagwoodGum]

We know the world through our sensory system - a different sensory system would reveal a different world. Which of these worlds would be 'true'? Is 'bullshit' on a spectrum which would include warnings about it?

If one were systemically inclined, one might adopt a system where one leaves 10 tinfoils for every one that some douche has the audacity to litter ones posts with, on a 10 to 1 basis. Then what would this world come to.
And, as you allude to, if one's sensory system allowed one to see into the gas spectrum, one could see the off gassing of toxic individuals that abound. Would this be an advantage or a curse?